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General Category => New Model Army => Topic started by: Mattias on September 17, 2022, 01:56:57 PM
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Hi
This might be an unpopular topic. I love NMA and have every album. But to me the two last albums From Here and Surrounded are missing any song with a big chorus or cathy hooks. Listening to the songs in isolation I love them, the lyrics and soundscape is great. They are great. I really mean that.
But as albums it seems to flow together as a single mass without standouts. If there were a song with a big chorus like for example autumn or guitar or bass hook like Island on them I would totally be on board. But to me the last two albums flow together like one mass without any standouts or hooks. Do anyone agree or understand where I'm coming from?
Just my opinion. Please don't hate on me. Flame shield on.
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I'm sure that us NMA faithful can deal with "unpopular topics" Mattias and criticism may not sit well with some but I say good on you for offering a risky opinion..my answer would be Yes the hook has gone generally ( where I am being the obvious massive exception though..that song could slot straight into thunder and consolation)...I doubt it's been lost though..I would say its just sullivan striving to move forward musically and explore more organic often rhythmic musical artforms..the recent stuff is still good though and interesting...I've often said I'd love them to do an album with pure pop hooks on every track though..backed up with artillery attack drums and wall of noise bass and guitar!
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I found Surrounded didn't click with me at first.
Then I liked it.
Then I really loved it.
Never known another album do that quite the same way.
But I know what you mean. The music has got deeper, more thoughtful, more poetic, more expansive and less immediate.
No bad thing, there's got to be space to explore all these ideas.
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But to me the two last albums From Here and Surrounded are missing any song with a big chorus or cathy hooks.
I think Justin's two solo albums aren't really about catchy, "easy" choruses, but much more about creating atmospheres. On "From here" which is for me a solid album I find that there are nevertheless titles with catchy choruses like "Never arriving", "End of days", "Great disguise", "Conversation"..but it's true that NMA's latest albums (we'll say since "Between dog and wolf") are perhaps less immediate than the first ones, perhaps more elaborate, more complex, more atmospheric, they perhaps lose immediate effectiveness what they gain in richness of writing and complexity/maturity..
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I would add, and with maximum respect for one of the best lyricist ever (with Shane Mc Gowan ? :)), that some songs lyrics, since BD&W, seems, to me, unfinished, don't quite fall in place (don't know if I'm clear :)).
For examples, I would say "it could be mountains, it could be stormclouds" line seems always out of place to me, sounding weird in my ears, most of Knievel lyrics too, in "where I am" when he sing "come baaaaack" I always here "kumbayaaaaa" and it feels strange (my whole family, even the kids, makes fun of me about this kumbaya thing but I can't unhear it !), and some other songs.
BUT
Maps/Setting Sun/From Here is one of the best sequence I've heard on an album, so beautiful, and lyrics are amazing, Die Trying bring tears in my eyes a.s.o. ... so with the amount of albums, during more than 40 years, I'd say it's absolutely incredible how many great songs (anthems ?), with beautiful, moving and/or straight to the guts lyrics they have done, are doing, and probably will still do :)
As always, I'll wait with impatience for the next album, and the magic moment that it is to play it for the first time
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Hi
This might be an unpopular topic. I love NMA and have every album. But to me the two last albums From Here and Surrounded are missing any song with a big chorus or cathy hooks. Listening to the songs in isolation I love them, the lyrics and soundscape is great. They are great. I really mean that.
But as albums it seems to flow together as a single mass without standouts. If there were a song with a big chorus like for example autumn or guitar or bass hook like Island on them I would totally be on board. But to me the last two albums flow together like one mass without any standouts or hooks. Do anyone agree or understand where I'm coming from?
Just my opinion. Please don't hate on me. Flame shield on.
Agreed, Matthias! I'm not a big fan of From Here and Surrounded either.
There are a couple of okay songs but absolutely no stand-outs for me.
Still looking forward to the German October gigs 8)
"kumbayaaaaa" ;D ;D ;D
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Well you managed to actually get people to reply to a thread! ;D That's a pretty rare occurrence these days.
I don't think you're alone with your opinion, especially regarding Surrounded. Most people expected NBTS 2.0 and got something completely different. Ironically, opinions over NBTS were very divided when it came out. Personally, I love Surrounded and I love the fact that it explores new ground. I do think it's an album that more people will discover for themselves over time. It just takes the right frame of mind, I think.
To my ears From Here is a solid album, too. My only criticism would be that it seems a continuation of a theme that started with BDAW (and remember how hugely unpopular that album was with many people). To me, the change that you describe started with BDAW. However, BDAW is one of my favourite NMA albums so I'm fine with the lack of anthems and catchy choruses. All the elements are still there just less immediate perhaps.
Luckily, JS is a prolific writer and I'm sure that there is always the next album to look forward to. Anyway, it's a valid opinion so don't apologize. And keep posting!
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Interesting thought!
Well, to me, "From Here" and "Surrounded" are just...different. It's true that it took me a little longer to really fully get into them - but now I do like them a lot.
The lyrics are great and the songs create this certain atmosphere I can get lost in - I guess that, just as is the case with music in general, there is an NMA song/album to suit every possible mood at different stages in your life.
And yeah, we know that the band likes to try out different styles, different approaches - it's this I very much appreciate, even if the outcome might not always be 100% my cup of tea.
Btw...good to be in a place where these things can still be discussed without anyone feeling offended. :-*
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Ironically, opinions over NBTS were very divided when it came out.
I find it curious, because I still remember rave reviews when NBTS was released in 2003! But the curious thing is that this album was little listened to by NMA fans who mostly appreciate the punk/rock Justin and his anthems. Yet NBTS (and "Surrounded") is one of Justin's finest works.
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NBTS is, in my opinion, a masterpiece. I love everything about it, every song. Surrounded is a really good album, but I wasn't blown away like with NBTS. But those are Justin albums, not NMA albums, i try to dissociate those, even if ... :)
But even if I didn't like as much albums since BDAW, reading that there's a new album in the making, that will be different again from past albums, it just gives me goose bumps, as always, I'm so impatient to listen to new NMA stuff.
And, being 50 now, I have to remember that I will not feel the same when hearing new stuff, I still can be really moved (luckily) but it can't be the same as when you're 18 and you hear something like "we are lost, we are freaks, we're crippled we're weak" and I could go on and on (I was, but my post was starting to be too long, so removed the No Rest, 225, Vanity and Orange Tree Road lines I wrote :)).
I can still feel a new song right in my guts, but it can't be the same raw feeling :)
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And, being 50 now, I have to remember that I will not feel the same when hearing new stuff, I still can be really moved (luckily) but it can't be the same as when you're 18 and you hear something like "we are lost, we are freaks, we're crippled we're weak" and I could go on and on (I was, but my post was starting to be too long, so removed the No Rest, 225, Vanity and Orange Tree Road lines I wrote :)).
I can still feel a new song right in my guts, but it can't be the same raw feeling :)
I have never given this much thought...but this is absolutely true, isn't it? A bit sad, somehow, but it makes sense. :)
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It’s not sad, because the raw energy you loose is replaced by a deeper understanding of things too 😉
One isn’t better than the other, it’s the road you take to go from one to the other that worth it 😁
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I looooove From Here, one of my favorites, and I love winter and Surrounded,
I must say I disagree
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I must say I disagree
That’s the beauty of it 😁
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And, being 50 now, I have to remember that I will not feel the same when hearing new stuff, I still can be really moved (luckily) but it can't be the same as when you're 18 and you hear something like "we are lost, we are freaks, we're crippled we're weak" and I could go on and on (I was, but my post was starting to be too long, so removed the No Rest, 225, Vanity and Orange Tree Road lines I wrote :)).
I can still feel a new song right in my guts, but it can't be the same raw feeling :)
I have never given this much thought...but this is absolutely true, isn't it? A bit sad, somehow, but it makes sense. :)
I know what you mean and I feel that way about lots of bands from my youth. But NMA are one of the few exceptions for me. Maybe my musical taste has matured in the same way as their music but I rarely feel nostalgic about NMA. They are very much a current band in my mind and I like their recent stuff as much as the classics. Songs like States Radio, Summer Moors, Eyes Get Used to the Darkness or Where I am are move me as much as any of their 80s anthems.
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And, being 50 now, I have to remember that I will not feel the same when hearing new stuff, I still can be really moved (luckily) but it can't be the same as when you're 18 and you hear something like "we are lost, we are freaks, we're crippled we're weak" and I could go on and on (I was, but my post was starting to be too long, so removed the No Rest, 225, Vanity and Orange Tree Road lines I wrote :)).
I can still feel a new song right in my guts, but it can't be the same raw feeling :)
I have never given this much thought...but this is absolutely true, isn't it? A bit sad, somehow, but it makes sense. :)
I know what you mean and I feel that way about lots of bands from my youth. But NMA are one of the few exceptions for me. Maybe my musical taste has matured in the same way as their music but I rarely feel nostalgic about NMA. They are very much a current band in my mind and I like their recent stuff as much as the classics. Songs like States Radio, Summer Moors, Eyes Get Used to the Darkness or Where I am are move me as much as any of their 80s anthems.
I'm not stuck in the 80's stuff, my favorite album is 8, and state radio one of my alltime favorite too (but those are old timers too now in 2022 ;) )
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Other that Wuthering Heights I'm struggling to think of any songs with a Cathy hook? :P
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I'm in the "unpopular" camp here, too. I loved everything up until BDAW, which despite plenty of trying I just find.... well, boring. I described it on the forum as being all production and no songwriting, which went down like a French kiss at a family reunion with some members. There were a lot of "Just wait until you hear it live - those songs were intended to be played up close and personal" comments but I had the same reaction to the songs at gigs. BDAW Live was the same, but I did like Between Wine And Blood, and Winter is one of my favourites. From Here didn't do it for me at all, to the point that I didn't even try particularly hard to overcome this.
However, I fully believe that a band must make the records that they want to make, and that it's not their job to make records that I like. One of the things that I like best about NMA is that they do things their way and aren't afraid to step outside what they've done before. One thing is for sure - it wouldn't have lasted 40 years if all they'd done was make The Ghost of Cain twenty times.
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<i think in general that every NMA album is different and special with great songs. listen to the band since 35 years and know Justin since years ago when i was living in bradford. amazing artist and human being. lyrics are always great. musically speaking From Here is different from other albums with great songs to sing along and shout loud (today is a good day, water, to the early ones). I mean this band put out great records since the 80s in my opinion. and all albums are great or really good. even those from which they almost never play live songs such as Eight and others. great albums great songs. then they are different and that is a positive thing or will be always the same stuff all over again.
For the rest the first >Justin solo album has all incredible songs very special album to me. The last one love it too even if different i d say even more difficult bit his 2 solo albums are not the best example of songs with catchy choruses etc nothing to do.
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In my humble opinion Justin and the band have not lost "the hook". For me, there is something great in every album. Over the decades the music has changed and evolved and for me that's one of the reasons I love NMA and solo JS music so much. The newer albums are just as good as the early ones. Never boring, always different from the one before.
Been lucky enough to see them twice this year and the newer songs slot in perfectly alongside all our old favourites.
When Surrounded first came out I wasn't sure about it, almost didn't like it but now I like it as much as NBTS. I guess I'm a little bit obsessed but no other band comes close.
Hoping the new album will be out next year...
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Hello and welcome......hopefully you will continue posting here....not many of us left :(....agree totally with your comment about ''Surrounded''it took me a while to get into it and i really like it now.It was always going to be difficult for me as NBTS is one of my all time favourite albums by anyone not just JS/NMA based,so as much as i like the album it was never going to compete with NBTS (for me imho)..As i have said before on other threads it would be a pretty dull world if we all liked the same thing...
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Hi Ghosttrain, thank you for reading my post. I totally agree with you about NBTS, just outstanding.
I'm not on social media anymore so I tend to miss out on interesting bits of information but I look in on this forum when I can. I don't always post things for fear of being boring but maybe I'll share more of my thoughts in future. I bore my circle of friends with NMA stuff (they don't understand me, lol) ...