The official NMA board
General Category => New Model Army => Topic started by: Guillaume on February 26, 2014, 02:05:32 PM
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" The Ghost of Cain is "Rubber Soul," and Thunder & Consolation is "Sgt. Pepper". "
( quote from an Amazon reviewer ;))
What is your opinion about THE GHOST OF CAIN?
Is it NMA's real masterpiece...or is it the much acclaimed THUNDER AND CONSOLATION?
Both THE GHOST OF CAIN and THUNDER AND CONSOLATION are brillant, flawless albums but sometimes i can't decide which is the best between these two gems, THUNDER has probably more "scope", feelings and moods than CAIN but CAIN is rawer, tighter maybe than THUNDER ...in all cases the "Moose" years are probably the peak of NMA's history IMO, when i listen to TGOC and T&C, unlike some of others NMA's albums, i never skip any of the songs, i have to listen to the whole albums!! 8)
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It's impossible to decide it all depends what mood etc your in. Its like being asked your favourite child impossible they all have their differences but and the end of the day you love them equally
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I would say its a draw, but T/C would win on technical points
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Would love to know what songs you skip ?
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Hmmm... odd one for me because I first heard a couple of tunes from T and C, which is where it all started for me, but the first album I listened to in full was GOC, which is where the big love truly began...
So I'm gonna ask myself which one would I rather listen to TONIGHT...
Gonna go with GOC. My opinion may be different tomorrow.
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That's Glyn Johns vs Tom Dowd, which is like the Bach vs Mozart debate.
You can have Cain without Thunder, but we'd never have had Thunder without Cain.
Also, Cain is the better album because they were really ******* giving it some. Consolation is something of a magnum opus, sure, but it goes on a bit.
Plus one album is about ghosts and the other one is about weather and feelings, so obviously ghosts are cooler.
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Gotta go with T&C.
GOC is fantastic, too but not in the same league. It's a straight forward JS album in the same vein as Eight.
T&C introduces a whole new musical dimension.
Just my thoughts.
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It really depends on the mood that you're in, T&C is an amazing album but the ghost of cain has some classic anthems. Both excellent.
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Gotta go with T&C.
GOC is fantastic, too but not in the same league. It's a straight forward JS album in the same vein as Eight.
T&C introduces a whole new musical dimension.
Just my thoughts.
It may seem strange looking back now - but NMA werent always the Justin Sullivan backing band, - if you look at Ghost of Cain - most of the tracks are Sullivan/Heaton and it was very much seen as a band
Personally - although its got some great songs - I've never been that keen on Ghost of Cain. I much prefer (despite its shocking 80s production) No Rest.
T&C is a classic - though i can recall first hearing it and thinking they'd gone all stadium rock...
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Gotta go with T&C.
GOC is fantastic, too but not in the same league. It's a straight forward JS album in the same vein as Eight.
T&C introduces a whole new musical dimension.
Just my thoughts.
Well said...in some ways with "The ghost of Cain" NMA polished their early raw angry "punk" sound and brought it to a new level, but "Thunder and consolation" has a different sound and evokes different kind of feelings than the 3 first albums, in my opinion.
Personally - although its got some great songs - I've never been that keen on Ghost of Cain. I much prefer (despite its shocking 80s production) No Rest.
"No rest for the wicked" is a very good album too, but its production is too grating to my ears..."The ghost of Cain" is the first NMA album to have a "good" sound, in my opinion.
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I think I've said before that it's pretty rare for me listen to an album all the way thru' (unless it's new and I flog it to death) instead I guess I think of the NMA body of work as one ever expanding album and I zip back and forth thru' it.
But The Hunt was the first ever NMA song I heard (must of been around the release of T&C) and from there into the album and that was that... still here now, So for me it's a special album and although I don't listen to it from start to finish there is not one track on it that doesn't regularly get an airing - and I've just checked the discography section to make sure my memory isn't failing me.
As for T&C well it don't need any words from me to state it's claim as the classic NMA album, it's got 225 on it after all and the only song I've never heard played that I really want to hear one day >:( - Nothing Touches. But just like Ghost all of the tracks get played.
So sorry if this sounds like a cop out but I honestly can't put these in any sort of "One's better than the other" order. And except for TIAGD I can't do that for any of the other 13 studio albums listed on the aforementioned discography.
:-*
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the only song I've never heard played that I really want to hear one day >:( - Nothing Touches.
One of NMA's best songs, unfortunately "underrated", indeed!
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it's got 225 on it after all
That song is still my favourite. I had Ghost / No Rest and the 7-track EP, but when I got to 225 (after The World) I was hooked. I also thought that 'the drummer' playing the guitar in the video of Green and Grey was brilliant and added dimension to a punk outfit. Thunder and Consolation was also a very attractive vinyl.
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Hiya Gaijin (nice name - what are you outsider/alien/non-Japanese ?)
Yep 225 was the one that hooked me too. Never heard anyone articulate that frustration so perfectly before.
:-*
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Hiya Gaijin (nice name - what are you outsider/alien/non-Japanese ?)
Yep 225 was the one that hooked me too. Never heard anyone articulate that frustration so perfectly before.
:-*
Gaijin = my first name is Guy, a mate coined the nickname years ago.
Used to be that I listened to the music, really only paying attention to songs that I could dance to.
I've recently started to collect some of the bootleg recordings to be found on the web, and find that much insight can be gained from Justin's 'inbetween' banter. His intro's offer context to songs that I've lived with for many years.
.
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That's Glyn Johns vs Tom Dowd, which is like the Bach vs Mozart debate.
Have you read this book? i'm curious to know if Glyn Johns talks about NMA and "The ghost of Cain" in it:
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/262356925_10159968998824623_2587935107670241054_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=7cP1Fwz1-2QAX_AGqEQ&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=aa14845843024bd081fa89d0fb54fe13&oe=61A9486B)
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both amazing for sure. But Thunder and Consolation has a special place in my heart because it was the very first lp I bought in a vinyl shop in Innsbruck when I was 18 ( I am 48 now). Since then........I got a new family.
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Thunder and Consolation every time.
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Thunder and Consolation every time.
You are probably right! I also love "The Ghost of Cain"...but "Thunder and Consolation" in its cd version I must have listened to it thousands of times since 1995 (the year I discovered NMA, I was in high school)...and it's incredible after all these years, all these listenings, I find these songs still fresh, vibrant, moving, relevant... "I love the world", "225", "Green and grey", "Ballad of bodmin pill", "Family", "Family life", "Nothing touches" (which I'm sad I never heard live!!)...these are timeless songs.
And then your bass playing on this album and "The ghost of Cain" is the style of playing and sound that would make me want to learn to play bass ;), like when I listen to Phil Lynott or Graham Bailey (The Sound) In short, "Thunder and consolation" is the album that I share first and foremost with friends when I want them to discover the band, and for the little anecdote the last CD copy that I offered was to the Lovell sisters of the Blues band LARKIN POE, ten days ago, when they were in Paris. I hope they will do a cover of a song from this album (and/or Justin's wonderful album "Navigating by the stars");)