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General Category => Everything Else => Topic started by: Master Ray on March 28, 2014, 09:24:14 PM
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OK, as someone with years of service in the NHS and, who got recently thrown onto the dole queue thanks to idiotic cutbacks, I can't deny that I'm a bit biased when it comes to this topic... but read this, it's all backed up by absolute facts...
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/the-destruction-of-nhs.html
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Typical dirty tory back stabbing bastards they don't give a shit about the poor and the working class. A multi millionaire pm who hasn't got a clue about the real world. As the song says (nearly) they wanna kill the poor.
Hope you've found a job ray cause i know how touch things are at the ss office They give you very little practical help and no financial help to find work.Oh yeah we can all afford laptops and broadband to log into our universal job accounts and a lot of the library's have closed.They won't even help you with money till you get your 1st wage.
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Well, as a Nurse in the NHS I agree totally!
I have seen a massive difference since the Tories took power, and not for the better.
only a matter of time before we have a private service
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I worked in the NHS, I now work with the new and evolving NHS. Its an emotive issue that raises ire and emotion.
Having moved away from its original concept the NHS had to evolve and change. It might be that you go to a GP or Hospital in the future that is administered by a private company but still free at the point of contact, but to be honest that was set in place under Blair. If you mean Private as in you have an operation you pay for it , I think we are still along way from that. Unfortunately the NHS has be come a Behemoth that most of us will use when we need it, but one that is also abused and taken for granted. Next time your in your GP's look at the Number of appts missed , not attended. Then look at the amount of Medicines wasted year on year. The NHS has gone from being a respected service to an expected right that in this day and age in its current form simply cannot be allowed swallow money without recourse
My wife still works for the NHS, long hours in a job that she trained to for but bears no resemblance to actually what she does.
They say that prevention is better than cure….the sentiment was the basis of the NHS founded by Bevan, Now all it does is crisis manage people and their expectations, and that is wrong
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Good post, Garyah, and a respectable response to my original point...
... and I certainly agree that the NHS is seriously in need of reform. I've never seen an organization throw so much money away. I won't bore you with my stories, but so many times, during my time there, myself and everyone around me were shaking their heads...
But I truly don't think that priviatisation is the way forward. I don't think privitasation of public services ever helped anyone. Just look at the bloody railways. Stupidly expensive and yet STILL in need of constant government bailouts...
I have family in the US and they tell me horror stories... I see the UK going the same way, without a doubt.
IMO, we need more clinically-trained staff attending to patients, not managers and consultants... but you don't need me to tell you which NHS folks are being screwed over, made redundant or accepting unacceptable pay just so they can keep their jobs... and which are not only keeping their jobs, but flourishing and multiplying... >:(
And, referring you back to my original link, The NHS is NOT for the Tories to sell!!! It doesn't belong to a bunch of public school rich-boys, it belongs to the tax-paying people! This is grand theft on a grand scale!!!
Anyway, rant over. For now. ;)
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Cheers Master Ray
I'm not sure that Privatisation is the right way forward either, the free at the point of contact concept is what makes it the special service it is. I do think that the idea of any willing provider, providing that service paid for by the taxes we all contribute too could work, in some areas it already is, to the benefit of the communities they serve and to the Tax payer delivering high quality care within the budget given to them.
The problems I see is that Dr's Nurses and other HCP's used to be respected individuals providing high value care to those that need it. Patients are now consumers and staff perceived as public servants, and you don't me to tell you that some believe because they have paid their taxes they feel entitled to no longer treat these individuals as valuable assets and believe that the NHS is not a privilege but a superior being given right to be used as and when they see fit. I have seen it all too often services used inappropriately because the caring NHS is seen at he place to send people when everything else fails. That said the majority of the staff do a sterling job in difficult circumstances with what they have available to to them
We could then start a whole new discussion about whether current reforms are affecting quality care or improving it.
But I'll leave there for now ::) ::) ::)
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Politics aside, everyone I personally have encountered in the NHS is a credit to the profession they are part of. Clearly there must be a good recruitment process involved to get the right people involved with the work they are going to perform
It is no surprise to me that a lot of the "developed" World is in envy of our NHS 8)
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Ok deep breath................
As others have noted, the individuals in the NHS on the whole, seem to be dedicated and professional. Certainly I've had my fair share off the NHS in the last few years with more to come. I couldn't fault any of it really. Sure there have been a couple of minor grumbles but it's a huge organisation and I doubt very much whether any system is infallible. And yes, there is always room for improvement or modernisation.
But the ideological basis for what is going on comes from a very different place. Forget about anything coming from within, this is an imposition driven by a government with it's own agenda. This is nothing to do with improvement or patient care, it is (from their point of view) simply the next golden egg to sell off. The belief is that there is nothing that should not be "commodified" there has to be money made or else a thing has no value. End Of.
Now we are being asked to pay £10 a month each to fund OUR NHS on top of the NI & tax we already pay. Mark my words we won't get that back when it's sold to the lowest bidder. Nothing is worth a spit if you can't make profit. Sorry but for me that really sticks in the throat. Our forebears did not create the NHS to build a business to sell decades later for profit - they set it up to create a National Health SERVICE.
For what it's worth I don't believe any of the other "shades of grey" parties would/will be any different because they are all in bed with the deity of profit. And another thing - wait until our Police and Armed Forces are a profit chasing private enterprise then we really will be fucked.
As for the lies and lies and lies we're all sold in regard to what "they" are going to do "when" elected? Don't fool yourself it's not directed at "us" - it's directed at a tiny handful of swing voters in a even tinier handful of marginal key constituencies (if I remember correctly it works out that around 120,000 people in the UK are all that matters to any of them) Where is the None Of The Above voting box? (that's a whole different load of waffle in the making right there ::) )
And in relation to the NHS being the envy of the world - yes to your average Joe/Joanne it probably is as they cannot help but look at us with envious eyes (wouldn't you if you couldn't get your child treatment because you had no money?). But to the spawn of Mammon in the corridors of power in those countries? They just see it as a money making opportunity same as our rapacious, self-centered bastard politicians.
Sorry if that's a really gloomy opinion but I'm afraid it's the only one I've got.
:-*
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Bloody great post, Anna, far more erudite than anything I could come up with... big internet hug coming your way.
Just read the thing about the £10 a month to use the NHS today... mind=blown.
There should be massive outrage about this, but lets face it, so much of the UK population are more concerned with so much silly shit that the media drown them with .. what's Simon Cowell doing nowadays? Hey, Kelly Brook got engaged again! And now, giant German rats (who can chew through concrete ???) are coming to eat our major appliances and, possibly, our children (heck, those killer spiders are SO last year...)
I'm too old and (hopefully) intelligent to think anything approaching a revolution could ever happen. A stupid concept anyway, too many folks would get hurt with no result at the end of it. I just wish that such a large percentage of the UK populace weren't so blind, deaf and dumb... they might figure it out when it's far, far too late...
:'(
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Aw, thanks Ray - hugs received with a smile. You're never quite sure how these posts are gonna' read from the other end.
so much of the UK population are more concerned with so much silly shit that the media drown them with ..
Says it all don't it?
I just wish that such a large percentage of the UK populace weren't so blind, deaf and dumb... they might figure it out when it's far, far too late...
Nope - now we said it all!
Tragic.
:(
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Thousands of people killed every year by acute kidney failure due to bad care ie not getting enough fluids whilst under the 'care' of the nhs !
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Thousands of people killed every year by acute kidney failure due to bad care ie not getting enough fluids whilst under the 'care' of the nhs !
Totally agree, mate... as I said, the NHS needs a serious revamp... but can you imagine when the 'higher-ups' are figuring out 'how much money can we make from selling those fluids...'?
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Need to get back to basic hands on care instead of focusing on targets
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Getting back to the point I originally made... ******* hell, this makes me want to go all Lee Harvey Oswald on that c.u.n.t Cameron...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/17/nhs-taken-over-wall-street-cameron-health-service-privatisation
>:(
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Follow the links from that article and do your own googling. The TIIP is a truly colossal beast and in essence equates corporations with nation states. Frightening.
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This current government is intent on selling all our emergency services to the private sector in order to save money. Absolutely disgraceful to line the pockets of business at the expense of others suffering. Id actually forgotten how morally redundant the Tory partyis :'(y
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https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/vince-cable-fix-ttip#petition
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We were ahead of the facebook lot for once he he he ....................
https://www.facebook.com/NewModelArmyOfficial
8)
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We were ahead of the facebook lot for once he he he ....................
https://www.facebook.com/NewModelArmyOfficial
8)
YES, Yes, yes!
Read and respond if you give a shit about health care in this country... future generations will thank you.
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Read and respond if you give a shit about health care in this country... future generations will thank you.
(Gets sledgehammer out).................... What Ray said....................(waves sledgehammer about dramatically).................Do it!..........................(puts sledgehammer away again)....................
Seriously though it will take all of 5 minutes to read and decide what you think.
:-*
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Thought I'd reactivate this one...
The Government put out their new Budget today.... and not a single word about the NHS.
Translation = The NHS is gone, once and for all, if the ******* Tories get into power again... it'll be sold off to their rich chums. And I genuinely believe that the UK public are dumb / docile enough to let that happen...
:'(
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I read that only 14% of the population works in the public sector. That will drop soon. I struggle to think anyone who has been screwed over for 5 years will believe everything is magically better just before an election. Bar stards!!
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At least we can all get drunk with that hugely generous 2p they took off a pint which we will never see anyway
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The reason the NHS was not mentioned in the Budget is because if the figures for it were part of the overall picture then the fuckwits would never be able to convince even themselves that the maths work. Buried somewhere in the small print will be a sentence like "pending outcome of NHS spending review 2015".
Furthermore as Ray points out, the NHS will be privatised if they get the chance. Don't kid yourself - it will happen. They've been priming the NHS to sell off for years, they have started nibbling at the edges and privatised various parts already.
It's dogma - the very idea that the primary reason an Organisation exists is NOT profit just doesn't compute. It doesn't exist in their world.
This isn't just anti-blue. Red and Yellow are following just behind.
Normal service is resumed >:(
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I'm BUMPing this one for the most personal of reasons... which might also explain why I haven't posted anything in the last few days...
Late last Sunday I was rushed into hospital after a heart attack. Not a minor palpitations-kind-of-thing, a proper full blown heart attack. The type that could kill, the type where the local hospital isn't good enough and they rush you to somewhere twenty miles away because it has a better chance of saving your life. It was out of the blue and scary as f.u.c.k. :-\
Got operated on immediately (the operation was a complete success!), spent the next 72 hours being poked and prodded and given everything that I needed between life-saving drugs and endless cups of tea, all with clinically-trained folks who couldn't have been more supportive and friendly. I admit, I broke down crying at one point (because I was in a depressive moment and convinced I was a goner) and the staff around me were just completely bloody awesome... :'(
I'm home now and alive because of the utter magnificence of the NHS.
I'm not going to go into a big political rant. That would be predictable.
Just want to mention the magnificence of the people who saved my life.
THE NHS NEEDS TO SURVIVE!
No other opinion is valid.
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Wow Jesus fck M.R. thank fck your still alive. That sounds scary as hell. Did they say what caused it , and what you need to do for the future.
Anyway mate you put your feet up and take it easy and I wish you a full and speedy recovery.
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Hey Big Fella,
Love to you from me & Keto. Glad to hear you are home and on the way to recovery. Take care of yourself my friend :-*
As to the NHS .................. I just came home from 8 days "inside" and I can only echo your stance:
THE NHS NEEDS TO SURVIVE!
No other opinion is valid.
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Holy shit, Ray that's scary. I could imagine you've gone through many feelings. So glad to hear you're back in business. :)
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I am not on here a lot - and post even less - but just read this thread and - Master Ray, so glad you are home safe and sound and very sorry to hear what you had to go through!!!!
Fingers crossed that there won't ever be a similar episode and that you'll make a complete recovery.
All the best wishes from Germany! *hugs*
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Blimey M/R. very sad and surprised to hear that. I know you have had blood pressure issues, and as much as we moan about getting older, you are too young for that. Not fair.
Completely agree with your thoughts on the NHS. It is a wonderful service made up by some of the the best of people and should not be allowed to falter. They have taken care of you and our Wezzy Witch very well.
I hope you are back on track enough to make it to Notts, but will fully understand if you can't.
Look after yourself and get well mate ---- "No other opinion is valid".
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MR. Bloody hell man, my best wishes for your speedy recovery.
Dont go into a rant or get aspirated you need to REST!
The NHS is fantastic, and whatever people think it isn't going anywhere. Unfortunately an ageing population and other issues are going to put pressure on it that no political party or money may be able to solve. IMO that isn't the end for it in 25 years, but a slimming down of services to focus on ones that you experienced. Emergencies. We might not like it but population growth, age profile changes and other issues are going to pressure many of our infrastructure services.
But for now, my advice, don't get het up about ANYTHING. Relax, take the meds, get better! there will be many days ahead to bang desks!!!!! :)
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Cheers, you gorgeous lot (I'll be responding to PMs shortly...) but I'm fine. Oddly so... I'm back home since last night and, surprisingly, feeling better than I've done in a good long while. The artery blockage was completely cleared, the drugs are kicking in (granted, I've got so many pills to take that I'm practically rattling...) I've got no pain and more energy than I've had in ages. My good friend Shush mentioned Nottingham next month... I honestly feel, right now, that I could make it if it was tomorrow! :)
No matter how scary it was at the time, I can actually say it might have been the best thing to happen to me all year. It was a big red STOP sign for certain aspects of my life. Not that I was Pete Doherty or anything, but a man of my age needs to make lifestyle changes.
The big message here that I learned is... never never NEVER ignore chest pain. My chest pain never rose above a 4/10 and if it wasn't for my previous NHS background, I'd probably have ignored it and tried to go back to bed... who knows what might have happened a couple of hours later. You see it on TV or whatever that a heart attack is all agonising and collapsing and dramatic... it ain't always like that at all. You got a bit of chest pain that doesn't go away, call the fuckin' ambulance. Best case scenario, you're a bit embarrassed when it turns out to be severe indigestion. Worst case... you drop down dead. You choose what's better.
So, again, thank you for your kind words, I'm on my feet and doing OK. Better than OK, in fact...
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Only good thing you get from a serious illness, - you find out who your friends are ;)
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Take care Master Ray all the best cheers witch ;)
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Bloody hell Ray! What a shock; I'm so glad you are ok. Take good care of yourself xxx
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Glad to hear of your recovery, and that you had such great service from the NHS
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Master Ray,
Only just picked up this thread. I'm very sorry to read of your illness, but delighted to learn you're recovering well.
Got everything crossed that you make a full recovery and very soon.
all the best,
Johnny
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Cheers Johnny. ;)
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Bit late of me MR but glad youre on the mend and have come through positively. Good on ya mate.
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Ok very trivial and minor considering what a few others have been through recently.
Went for a minor op today on my arm, got a large skin tag removed at my local hospital ( crosshouse nr Kilmarnock) . Basically a local anesthetic tag scalpeled off n two stiches, only took about ten minutes.
Got to say all the staff were extremely nice and couldn't have been more professional
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Just found this thread.
I hope you are doing ok now Master Ray.
As you all know the NHS has saved my life twice this year with the brain tumour and the cancer.
I just wish the government would pay me enough in my full time job to pay tax to fund this fantastic life saving/changing service.
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Paying for A&E anyone .................................? >:(
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Paying for A&E anyone .................................? >:(
Gotta love The Daily Mash...
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/ae-waiting-times-would-improve-if-you-werent-such-idiots-say-experts-2015010694135
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;D
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I understand the left of centre view here and the rant at the government. But don't all jump on me, I just wanted to point a couple of things out.
Rather than destroying the NHS facts tell us that spending has nearly doubled in the last decade from £65 billion to £114 billion this year. We can talk about creeping "privatisation", but facts tell us that just 5% is subject to public/private partnerships.
So perhaps we need to extend out horizons a bit? :) To look at aging populations, increased population, extra treatment brought under the NHS banner that perhaps should not be there, people who use A&E for none A&E, how we spend and deploy that money ie is it effective?
I suspect any government could put another 50% on top of current funding, with the impact of where that comes from to be discussed and we would still have issues.
I, like you, would fight to keep our NHS. It is one of our crowning glories, but we need surely to look a bit wider than just Tory/Labour bashing? :)
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Sorry ldopas - you will think this is just tory bashing.......................
http://www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2015/dec/19/ambulance-service-crew-restart-your-heart-exhausted
Essential service not an emergency service?
£19,500 p.a ?
It's what "the market" demands though isn't it and "the market" is always right :'(
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I'm gonna add something a bit different, today the figures were released for people missing hospital appointments in Scotland, day surgery etc , it made for depressing reading, if you make appointment n can't make it then phone up and let them know in good time. Maybe some kinda means tested fine for regular offenders
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Good point Pol - all too often there's a "me, me, me" attitude. We have rights but with those rights come responsibilities which somehow never seem to be as important to people.
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Agreed... so many people take the NHS for granted and they'll be shocked when it's gone... as a former NHS worker, I've seen and heard so many indications that so many people are just utter wussies who think it's a huge violation of their rights if they are ever sick for five minutes and they aren't made better IMMEDIATELY...
People are, as Pol said, accountable for their actions... I'd be in favour of some kind of comeback, financial or otherwise, for people who use and abuse the system... the NHS is a bloody privilege that we in the UK should be so grateful for...
Idopas... sorry for the belated response... I'd be interested in where you have this idea that the Tories just want to privatise just 5% of the NHS? When Jeremy Hunt (Secretary Of State For Health, non UK folks) was given the job after co-writing a book calling for FULL privatisation of the NHS? My fellow NHS colleagues see privatisation creeping in everywhere... and let's not forget, Mr Hunt is a proven personal tax-dodger to the tune of over £100,000...
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Sorry ldopas - you will think this is just tory bashing.......................
http://www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2015/dec/19/ambulance-service-crew-restart-your-heart-exhausted
Essential service not an emergency service?
£19,500 p.a ?
It's what "the market" demands though isn't it and "the market" is always right :'(
The market isn't always right, but it is sometimes. The public sector isn't always right but it is sometimes.
In the end the issue that grinds my gears if everyone including politicians and some here (sorry!) using the NHS to pound out their political views.
I like facts, I find them useful in business for example. Facts (NHS figures) tell us that rather than the NHS disappearing as some here allude to, funding has gone from £63 billion to a bone staggering £117 billion in the last decade.
NHS being "privatised"? Really. Well NHS public private initiative are at around 7% (and by the way 5% of that was under Labour). We have 32,467 additional doctors compared to 10 years ago. The number has increased by an annual average of 2.5 per cent over that time. Nurse number has increased by an annual average of 0.5 per cent over that period.
You put "£19,500pa?". Is that enough or too much? Who knows? Its a how long is a piece of string question. Some footballers earn that in a couple of hours. And if we say, yeah lets pay them £60k, what then do we pay a surgeon each year; £10 million? Where will we fund that from?
These are questions that will be never wrong or right. So NHS facts, not mine, tell us we are exponentially putting more money in. Perhaps we need to look at overuse of the NHS by people, missed appointments that someone has also put here, treatments that should not be on the NHS, increasing influx and increase of population and many other factors.
Truth is, like you I love the NHS makes me proud to be British, but personally I don't think there will ever be a time where NHS response to ever increasing demand will map together. I also don't think there will be a day where people do not use it as a political football when cold hard facts, not just emotion and political bias (right and left) are used to look at the correct rebalance of needs and wants. Sad but true!
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I have a problem to translate this :( - could someone be so kind to post it in simple old school english for children?
"I like facts, I find them useful in business for example. Facts (NHS figures) tell us that rather than the NHS disappearing as some here allude to, funding has gone from £63 billion to a bone staggering £117 billion in the last decade.
NHS being "privatised"? Really. Well NHS public private initiative are at around 7% (and by the way 5% of that was under Labour). We have 32,467 additional doctors compared to 10 years ago. The number has increased by an annual average of 2.5 per cent over that time. Nurse number has increased by an annual average of 0.5 per cent over that period. "
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Firstly I have to say Imo no one here it beating on the nhs to further their political views, in fact we have given it a whole lot of praise over the last few weeks. The nhs isn't totally bad in fact its still good in places, though I'm sure we can all agree it could be better. Nurses and junior doctors are well pissed off , waiting times seem to be getting longer for appointments and at a&e , things at dentists , opticians etc for nhs patients are a joke. Yes we have a ageing population and more people in the country plus people really need to get a grip and stop going to a&e with minor complaints.
On the pay issue I think we all can agree that nurses deserve more than £400 a week before tax and national insurance.
But its all a matter of money and balancing the books
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I have a problem to translate this :( - could someone be so kind to post it in simple old school english for children?
"I like facts, I find them useful in business for example. Facts (NHS figures) tell us that rather than the NHS disappearing as some here allude to, funding has gone from £63 billion to a bone staggering £117 billion in the last decade.
NHS being "privatised"? Really. Well NHS public private initiative are at around 7% (and by the way 5% of that was under Labour). We have 32,467 additional doctors compared to 10 years ago. The number has increased by an annual average of 2.5 per cent over that time. Nurse number has increased by an annual average of 0.5 per cent over that period. "
Lol. Made me laugh your post. :)
Sorry I was referring to the article Anna posted the link to and a couple of her statements.
In simple English, more money is being spent on the NHS by all governments. Is it enough? Nope and never will be.
Now a question for you. How on earth did you get that impressive red backed effect on your text? :D
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A laugh or an apple a day sometimes keeps the doctor away ;D
More money, more doctors, more nurses - right? And this public private thing is isn`t something bad?
The german system can`t be compaired with the NHS, if you work for an emergency service as a kind of paramedic (a new and highest qualification)or as a normal rescue assistant (qualification `til 2014) , for the service that are nearly 50.000 € a year, for you as the one doing the job perhaps only 60 per cent (taxes, all kind of insurances) of it
And the red glow? I choosed the text with the mouse, used the 5. button of the left side in the second line G green (without knowing the effect) - testing it again now ...
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I have to try the red glow!
Duck says kwack kwack.
Great. There seems to be a default grade or parameter of 2,300 in highlighted command. I'll try to change the parameter:
The dwarf shouted: Mithril!
Wow. A change in numbered parameter seems not to make a difference (I put to 7,100) but I changed the background hue to yellow and it works. I tried blue also but the light was too dim so it's about a colour you choose. Red could be seen better.
[/offtopic] ;);)
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Sorry I was referring to the article Anna posted the link to and a couple of her statements.
I get it honey - we're not worthy, intellectually stunted and you know better. What's it like up there sat next to god?
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Sorry I was referring to the article Anna posted the link to and a couple of her statements.
I get it honey - we're not worthy, intellectually stunted and you know better. What's it like up there sat next to god?
It is quite a view.
But seriously I'm assuming you misread or misinterpreted what I said to Lotus? It wasn't a slight, or meant to be. So here we go; I was replying to your post where you did post a link, you did right? I had the manners to read article you linked, I was supposed to do that, right?
And you did say, and I quote verbatim; "Essential service not an emergency service? £19,500 p.a ? It's what "the market" demands though isn't it and "the market" is always right?" All points you made as questions.
I merely answered those with my opinion and data, which I thought was the point of a discussion? You may not agree, but that is the point of a discussion, surely?
So I don't think your sarcasm is warranted, I don't deserve that thanks!
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OK, ldopas (hey, finally got your name right! :) )...
Firstly, I've really enjoyed reading your recent, respectful messages as regards to this thread and others and the people who come here. It is taken on board and I offer you my respect in return.
But, in regards to the NHS, you still haven't answered the questions I raised (like the 'only 5% of the NHS is up for privitasation' thing... where did you get that from? ???), so I just thrown up some new ones... here's another thread to have a look at... yeah, I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet. but there's some pretty solid sources here...?
http://nhap.org/what-you-can-do/facts-fingertips/proof-of-nhs-privatisation/
Looking forward to your response, sir!
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Good to see mr virgin doing well out of all yet again, fck more pies than Greggs n don't get me started on his pickles ( nice with cheese btw) Wonder if serco n g4s will run hospitals better than there prison services , Securicor cares Securicor scares the shit out of you do you wanna come closer lol
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OK, ldopas (hey, finally got your name right! :) )...
Firstly, I've really enjoyed reading your recent, respectful messages as regards to this thread and others and the people who come here. It is taken on board and I offer you my respect in return.
But, in regards to the NHS, you still haven't answered the questions I raised (like the 'only 5% of the NHS is up for privitasation' thing... where did you get that from? ???), so I just thrown up some new ones... here's another thread to have a look at... yeah, I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet. but there's some pretty solid sources here...?
http://nhap.org/what-you-can-do/facts-fingertips/proof-of-nhs-privatisation/
Looking forward to your response, sir!
Thanks for that MR. I'm not trying to piss anyone off, just trying to get into the debate. Look I don't work in the NHS like you, so of course I have no feel for what is happening in morale terms day to day so I listen to what you say.
But the figures quoted are from http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/key-statistics-on-the-nhs, ie official. And other sites. I completely understand that some stats can be read either way.
But here is my issue with your link. It is from a group with a political axe to grind. I try not to read those as they tend to be most selective. I'm sure UKIP will be in full flow like this come the referendum on the EU! :)
Note their "proof" doesn't mention the % of pub/pri initiatives. It quotes facts on those that did occur without talking about overall percent.
So for example it says: "A study by Oxford Economics show outsourcing has almost doubled between 2010 to 2013, from £6.9bn to £12.2b". Perhaps. But this amount is a drop in the ocean with the total NHS bill running into hundreds of billions. On its own it looks significant, but is it as significant? "Private firms won £3.54bn of £9.628bn worth of deals awarded in England in 2014". Ok, but perhaps they were better bids, and these are only the small percentage put out to tender anyway.
For me it is simple. If, for arguments sake, say over 40% of the NHS is in the private sector let me tell you that I would be with you and millions of others marching down to No10!
As for the current percent: "Overall, the Department of Health’s annual accounts suggest some £10 billion of the total NHS budget of £113 billion is spent on care from non-NHS providers (not including dentistry, medicines or general practice). The BBC reported that in 2013/14 £6.5 billion of that £10 billion was spent on private sector providers. "
Source http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/verdict/nhs-being-privatised. I'm not great at maths but that is 5.7%.
....and thanks for getting the name right at last, it feels good! :D
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Again I`m not sure I can follow the point - public/private partnership is bad at all and doesn`t work for people needing the emergency service? I only know some private or p/p rescue stations here - and the law says, they have to run the same standard (qualification of their workers and paying fair money and others things) - some private ones are able to do a kind of "no profit job", and often you as a user meet a good team, but sometimes ( :'() not .... private or public/private or public - angles and assh**les are everywhere >:(
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Bump
So nhs England have decided that if you haven't been to the doctors in the 5 years you will be struck by your gp . Yes they will send you a letter, you might have changed address, maybe English isn't your first language. Surely this can't be right
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Yeah, saw that today.
Also, and I can't believe I missed this, Jeremy Hunt is still Health Secretary.
Well, Meet The New Boss, ah, we all know the way that quote ends. ::)
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So parts of nhs England have banned smokers and obese people from getting even routine surgery. Worth remembering that smokers contributed £14 billion per annum to the economy on tobacco excise duty alone, nevermind what they added in national insurance and other taxes
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And ultimately legal. Whereas drugs use, drink drivers, speeding cars,pub brawlers etc are not. But they get treatment. Hows that work then?
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Hows that work then?
It doesn't - just a good headline for distracting the masses >:(
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Hows that work then?
It doesn't - just a good headline for distracting the masses >:(
Probably....but its not the first time its been put out. Its a bit like testing the bath water. One day itll be cool enough.
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(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/2d226952444f87d87268b0313ef549d715bda9be.jpg)
Goes without saying.
How much would my 2 life saving operations cost me ?
The week long stays for testing ?
2 check ups a week ?
Endless MRI,CAT,X RAY scans ?
The fact that even though I work 35 hours a week I don't earn enough to pay the tax that has paid for all of this ^^^.
>:(
makes me boil
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True that, WW.
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Charing Cross Hospital - bastards >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Blimey, started this thread years ago... it's sad that it's still getting responses from folks so worried about the NHS.
The Charing Cross thing... disgusting. And the Maybot re-appointed Cu... sorry, HUNT as the person in charge? Despite pretty much EVERY intelligent source of information putting him down as the wrong person for the job?
:-[
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It appears 13% of the hospital will be left ................ services to be farmed out across already overstretched local facilities .................... >:( >:( >:( >:(
p.s. just shows you how long this destruction has been going on - and go google cos the lies are there as part of history.
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It appears 13% of the hospital will be left ................ services to be farmed out across already overstretched local facilities .................... >:( >:( >:( >:(
p.s. just shows you how long this destruction has been going on - and go google cos the lies are there as part of history.
And the stats:
http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/key-statistics-on-the-nhs
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It appears 13% of the hospital will be left ................ services to be farmed out across already overstretched local facilities .................... >:( >:( >:( >:(
p.s. just shows you how long this destruction has been going on - and go google cos the lies are there as part of history.
And the stats:
http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/key-statistics-on-the-nhs
So many figures about CHARING CROSS HOSPITAL there :o
Although in fairness (cos I'm like that :-*) perhaps my second post last night didn't make it clear I was still blithering on about CHX.
Still I'm convinced those stats are independently verified as an accurate statement of fact :)
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The real workers ie the doctors and nurses have done a brilliant job over the last few weeks especially. Also a massive credit must go to the all the emergency services. Yes there has been huge cuts that would have made a massive difference
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It appears 13% of the hospital will be left ................ services to be farmed out across already overstretched local facilities .................... >:( >:( >:( >:(
p.s. just shows you how long this destruction has been going on - and go google cos the lies are there as part of history.
And the stats:
http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/key-statistics-on-the-nhs
So many figures about CHARING CROSS HOSPITAL there :o
Although in fairness (cos I'm like that :-*) perhaps my second post last night didn't make it clear I was still blithering on about CHX.
Still I'm convinced those stats are independently verified as an accurate statement of fact :)
Yeah, I posted that because on one hand you have people using words like "destruction" and "privatisation" and on the other people who say its all ok don't worry. The stats show the issue is mixed and we need to talk about other things than money and who runs it. Things like how we deal with an expanding and ageing population's needs and use of those services. That was all! Charing Cross closing is bad, very bad, but on the other hand they have according to the NHS built a lot of new hospitals around the country in the last decade, many under Labour. :)
And I hear you about stats, but until we have a better way of finding out which we have neither the time nor I suspect inclination its the best we got! (Having looked at the source first obviously).
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The real workers ie the doctors and nurses have done a brilliant job over the last few weeks especially. Also a massive credit must go to the all the emergency services. Yes there has been huge cuts that would have made a massive difference
You are right about Doctors/Nurses, hell I would be six foot under without them. As for cuts, did you read the stats link I posted showing massive spending increases not cuts? Ok we can argue whether than cash input was enough and I would probably agree with you. But the issues are bigger than just cash surely? :)
But we must have managers and admin staff otherwise you are asking Doctors and Nurses to do the admin.
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We can argue the toss about figures and stats till the cows come home and we'd still end up none the wiser. I could link to figures relating to proportion of GDP or historical financing or relation to true cost of living but someone could just come back with another set of numbers proving the exact opposite. Depends what thinktank your allegiances lie with. Smokescreens and diversion from all sides - nobody actually has a monopoly on the truth regardless of what the tory party may claim.
I have also benefited from a magnificent NHS, without which I very much doubt I'd have made it this far. The NHS is an achievement that the United Kingdom should rightly be proud of and which it should be very very wary of destroying in the guise of the god of neo-liberalism which it IS doing. Some things are beyond the tenet of profit. They are are a social cost which all have to bear.
But we must have managers and admin staff otherwise you are asking Doctors and Nurses to do the admin.
Hate to say it but I agree, viewed in capitalist terms the NHS is one massive corporation and as such it has to have people in the background who make the whole damn thing function. Without them I would never have got to see the Doctors, Shrinks, Consultants and ultimately Surgeons who healed me. There is surely a debate to be had regarding the numbers and efficiency same as in any other organisation but lets not kid ourselves that something as huge as the NHS can manage without them.
I would suggest that folks have a really close look at how health care is organised outside of the UK. Be very careful of what is casually thrown away because I doubt it can easily be replaced.
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im sure we can all agree that the nhs has got worse/ a lot worse in real terms , longer waitin lists poor conditions for staff n the sick . yes there is no easy answers with a growing population n poeple living longer , brexit will cost us many good staff
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Anyone seen the recently "revealed" proposals for London and other parts of the country ? Hmmm ...
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Anyone seen the recently "revealed" proposals for London and other parts of the country ? Hmmm ...
I did. It doesn't look good... and let's face it, reappointing someone for Secretary Of State For Health who once wrote down his plans for disassembling the NHS is a pretty clear indication of where the Tories are going... isn't this shit a bit bloody obvious? ::)
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Anyone seen the recently "revealed" proposals for London and other parts of the country ? Hmmm ...
I did. It doesn't look good... and let's face it, reappointing someone for Secretary Of State For Health who once wrote down his plans for disassembling the NHS is a pretty clear indication of where the Tories are going... isn't this shit a bit bloody obvious? ::)
Quite, but don't you go spouting none of your lefty "magic money tree" bullshit round here fella - it's all about the profit, do keep up old boy ;)
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Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity. You know how it goes. However you also know you naughty people :) that the NHS is not meant to make a profit. If we in the private sector make no profit we are dead, plus of course stuff like new equipment investment, training, staff salary increases, expansion and all that crucial stuff goes bye bye.
But I take your point. Personally I think the NHS and private sector shouldn't mix, not coz I'm a socialist because you know I'm definitely not, but because it is poison for both sides. I rarely bid for public sector jobs, though we have won a Welsh government contract in the last year and we are on the shortlist to get some work from Hinkley Point (fingers crossed). Bidding for public sector jobs is a mindf*ck of paperwork, diversity targetting and endless demands that stop you getting the job done properly.
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However you also know you naughty people :) that the NHS is not meant to make a profit.
No it's not - but that is something that to the governments shame it seems to have forgotten >:(
If we in the private sector make no profit we are dead, plus of course stuff like new equipment investment, training, staff salary increases, expansion and all that crucial stuff goes bye bye.
Ain't the private sector though is it? Those costs are part and parcel of running such a social service.
I rarely bid for public sector jobs,
Don't blame ya' I never did either ;) But because a SME can never compete with the resources of a larger corporation not because I thought that this:
diversity targetting
was shite.
we are on the shortlist to get some work from Hinkley Point (fingers crossed)
mmmmmmm..............