The official NMA board
General Category => New Model Army => Topic started by: Space on January 20, 2015, 10:42:52 PM
-
OK, we probably have other New Model Army albums that are favorites, that we like more than "Dog And Wolf." But what I am saying is that when the book is closed on NMA, "Between Dog And Wolf" will be seen as the band's high point.
Are there other albums that have a higher number of better songs? Yes. Are there other NMA albums that have better bass lines, better guitar work, better lyrics? Certainly.
But any fan who has been buying NMA records for thirty years knows that the boys got lazy. Some of the albums released in the 2000s were just a by the numbers routine. Lazy efforts. Yup, in the eighties NMA were definitely striving for greatness with their albums. 90s they took their foot off the gas a bit, and by the 2000s the band was just mailing it in. NMA albums were just a collection of songs. No cohesiveness, no direction, just a bit of vinyl to be released. NMA became like The Rolling Stones. Wait, you guys released a new album?!? Just play "Satisfaction"/"Green and Grey."
And who could blame the boys. Thirty long years and no nearer home. Be fine with everyone if they just rode off into the sunset quietly with simple album releases. But no, thirty years into their career they come up with their most significant release. Something that could legitimately called a project, a piece of artistic work. Just holding the CD in your hand you can see the work put into it. The album cover is the best in years, the booklet is stupendous (different artwork for each song)...whoa, this ain't no rush job album from the band this time.
And then when you play it......uhhhh, errrr, what the heck is this? And that's what makes it their most significant work. The high point of their career. It is challenging, it is mature, it is brave, it is a f***ing piece of work!
I don't think they'll ever top it in scope. I think the next albums will be back to being just a collection of songs, but who cares now. The band, thirty years into their career, gave us a masterwork. A real effort. A brilliant album. Good for them.
-
Seriously??
*shakes head and walks away *
-
Like Brian DC said. >:(
-
Here we go again ;D ;D
-
The next NMA album with be the best album ever in the history of music. It will sound like Angels clearing their throats, and read like the tablets Moses came down the mountain with.
-
Every day a new comedy gem however as they say on Dragons Den, I'm out. ::)
-
"the 2000s the band was just mailing it in. NMA albums were just a collection of songs. No cohesiveness, no direction, just a bit of vinyl to be released. NMA became like The Rolling Stones. Wait, you guys released a new album?!? Just play "Satisfaction"/"Green and Grey."
So High, Carnival, Eight and Today Is A Good day are just a collection of songs blah blah blah.
Space I have a serious question for you
Will you ever start a thread or post a comment without any bit of negativity towards the band?
Yes i do know that we're all entitled to an opinion but yet again you seem to want an advserse reaction.
For what reason are you doing this, just get some kicks for your own perverted pleasure.
I wonder if we all ignore you if you'll go away and leave us all in peace.
I honestly think you need to get off your arse and go watch the band live, yes I know you have such a feeble excuse that you can't possibly attend a gig on your own. :) :)
Watching them live and actually feeling the tension and seeing the passion, not just from the band but also the fans may just change your deluded view.
But then again you may just use it so you can it as a comparison then go out and play your far superior versions of the tracks live and say that even your versions are better than NMA live.
Who knows maybe you're right and we're all wrong ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I for one look forward to your forthcoming release like they used to do in the 70's with Tom Jones and the like
Space sings New Model Army
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm179/RACred/SpaceSings_zpsf7ccb300.jpg) (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/RACred/media/SpaceSings_zpsf7ccb300.jpg.html)
-
Brilliant ;D
I suspect someone here maybe printing that image for their next target practice ;D
-
Brilliant ;D
I suspect someone here maybe printing that image for their next target practice ;D
Thought you'd like it.
;D ;D
Keeps me amused while I'm off work
-
Space,
You're completely missing the point, and here's why. Justin said it himself when he said NMA will not furrow old veins.
Commercially it sounds like BDAW has hit above the radar and personally, I love it. You're right its a beautiful varied piece of art but musicians do not see it remotely like you. Neil Young oftens cites the pilloried "Trans" as his favourite album. And he should know...
The artist here is NMA and Justin and co are on a journey, they will accept they have succeeded in places and not so in others. When TURNER is viewed in the national gallery his paintings are viewed alone but mainly in the context of his life.
As JS writes the lyrics you should re-visit those albums you find hard work and distance yourself a bit from the fan-NMA view. This is the world according to the artist and where else do you have the sheer variety of subject matter that he has brilliantly bestowed on us.
if you're walking hustler gate or up at market cross, on the summer moors, beneath southbound bridges on the m6 or on the 30 westbound...there is something for all of us in every song. If the melody doesnt immediately grab you read the lyrics. Good example of this is in LS43. In the key of #F for a start, but the words are sweet genius. I love that song now.
Basically I'm saying view the band as an entity not, buy into his / their world a bit more.
There are many others that you will go back to and think, jees this is pretty f00kin' great...
Mixam,
R&R
Bad Harvest
Prayer Flags
I could go on...
And you forgot the mesmeric, Navigating by the stars....(2003)
TXP :) :)
-
Oh boy...
-
Wow. What reaction to my post of high NMA praise. I've never been to the Motley Crue forum, but I bet those guys there are more open-minded than the folks here.
1. My initial posts here stated that I prefer the early Morrow NMA era over the later stuff. I was crucified for that. "Oh, get out of the past! NMA are better now!" OK, so I post a post here stating that their latest album is their highwater mark. I write a post so full of praise for "Dog and Wolf" that Justin Sullivan himself will print it out and hang it on his refrigerator. I praise NMA's newest album...and I get crucified again by the members here!!! Crucified for liking the early stuff, crucified for liking the latest release. The Motley Crue forum members would never be so schizophrenic.
2. Me go to the m6? Market Cross? The 30 westbound? The Summer Moors? Hey, I'm a New Yorker. Asking me to go to those insignificant locales is like asking Lionel Messi to go play in a pee wee girls soccer league in South Dakota. Folks, when you've stood on Broadway and Times Square, the m6 is going to look like a dirt pathway.
3. Neil Young says his ridiculed album "Trans" is his best? Well, I agree. "Sample and Hold" is probably the greatest song ever made. "Heart of Gold" or "Sample and Hold"? I'll take that vocoder and savage guitar work over hippy acoustic "Heart of Gold" any day of the week.
OK, folks, so now I am understanding how this forum works. I should prefer the new 2000s stuff over the old, but "Dog and Wolf" isn't as good as the old stuff. Got it, now.
Folks, calm yourselves. I am simply voicing my thoughts on the music of NMA. I am passionate about music. I am passionate about New Model Army.
-
That's just it -- you didn't state you "prefer", you stated it for a fact, like you have stated other opinions as being fact, rather than your own personal opinion and anyone who disagrees has no ears or brains, followed by personal insults ,,,
Ah what's the use.
I will say, I have also stood on Broadway , Times Square, and the Yorkshire Moors. I would rather re-visit the Moors. Natural beauty is more impressive than bright lights.
-
As Shush says you always seemed to come across that your opinion is correct and ours didn't matter and how dare we disagree.
Your comments always seem confrontational, even the one above about the M6(especially the Southbound side) ;) ;), you just HAVE to be right don't ya.
Yes it's only a motorway but an historic one at that. Longest, possibly the busiest and the first stretch to open in the UK
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M6_motorway
If ya haven't ever been on it how can ya comment, i wouldn't comment about Times Square or Broadway as I've never visited.
At least you've kept the forum busy for a while :)
Nowt else to say apart from enjoy yourself on the Motley Crue forum ;D ;D
-
Anyone can and will prefer some albums to others. No problem. We're all different. Bandying words like lazy and insignificant about are rude and disrespectful. I will give absolutely anyone the benefit of doubt and a chance that misunderstandings are all too easy. Ive not met anyone on here that wont in the short time Ive been on. However an old saying, well actually I just made up lol, you dont enter someones house and start to redesign it for yourself.
You dont like 90s or 2000's stuff. Fine. Just say you dont like it. Not that its lazy, cos thats derogatory and people will not accept that. If you dont like it, no-one will disagree that you dont, no-one will castigate you for saying you dont like it because say, it doesnt move you. NMA are one very hard working band. So to say a decades work is lazy and going by the numbers will piss people off. Some of your posts are interesting and of relevance. Like Shush says though, when you state opinion as fact or throw negatives around as fact, then it riles people.
And I doubt that any forum would accept someone saying the bands music was lazy or that youd made it better.
Betaris box: my attitude affects my behaviour which affects your attitude which affects your behaviour.
In short, words or behaviour affects others words or behaviour. By all means disagree with everything I just wrote but they are my thoughts and observations and said without any malice or ill will. And I will say no more on the matter.
-
you always seemed to come across that your opinion is correct and ours didn't matter
Your opinions do matter to me. They make my opinions more correct.
Example: You stated this m6 pathway is a thing of wonder. I stated that Broadway and Times Square is a thing of wonder. Don't you see how your opinion makes mine look more correct?
DrummyB:
When I criticize certain albums by NMA or any band, isn't it helpfull if I tell why I dislike those albums? You blast me for using words like "lazy" or "insignificant." Isn't that better than simply saying the albums stink? I am giving a why. I feel the band set limited goals with their 2000s albums. They strived for very littl, much of the work was self-produced....that adds up to lazy and insignificant works.
I am not here to hurt people's feeling. Simply stating my views on NMA and their music. When I call certain albums lazy...well, don't take it personally. Am I supposed to like the exact same things as you? Say the exact same things you say about NMA? Come on, now.
-
How does self-producing make one lazy?
You're a musician, and if you've ever done any recording, which you have, you'll know that being responsible for the sounds on an album and the sound of an album, not to mention the pressures of engineering and musician-management, is a very hard job. Add to this the pressures of playing the music that is being recorded and I fail to see how this can make you lazy.
Most bands who can afford to hire a producer do so to remove some of that pressure and to place responsibility for the sounds and sound (not to mention feel) of an album onto a third party. How many times have we heard a band moaning on about how the album was great but the producer ruined it? Loads, that's how many.
Oh, and in parting, saying that different opinions to yours make your own more valid is just facile.
-
you always seemed to come across that your opinion is correct and ours didn't matter
Your opinions do matter to me. They make my opinions more correct.
Example: You stated this m6 pathway is a thing of wonder. I stated that Broadway and Times Square is a thing of wonder. Don't you see how your opinion makes mine look more correct?
DrummyB:
When I criticize certain albums by NMA or any band, isn't it helpfull if I tell why I dislike those albums? You blast me for using words like "lazy" or "insignificant." Isn't that better than simply saying the albums stink? I am giving a why. I feel the band set limited goals with their 2000s albums. They strived for very littl, much of the work was self-produced....that adds up to lazy and insignificant works.
I am not here to hurt people's feeling. Simply stating my views on NMA and their music. When I call certain albums lazy...well, don't take it personally. Am I supposed to like the exact same things as you? Say the exact same things you say about NMA? Come on, now.
There you go again
Saying that doesn't really matter what we say but your opinions are correct and dependant on what we say makes them more correct!!!!
As I said if you've never been on the M6 or the Yorkshire Moors how can you give an opinion?
'when you've stood on Broadway and Times Square, the m6 is going to look like a dirt pathway.'
If ya say so
Going back to the 4 albums of the 2000's
High, Carnival, Eight and TIAGD
Limited goals and self produced means they are lazy and insignificant WTF!!!
Does this apply to any artist who produces their own material?
At the end of the day we ALL have our OWN opinion and are willing to listen to other views but I for one and I expect many more on here don't like it when you keep saying that it doesn't really matter what we think at the end of the day you're right and the more we say just reinforces your views.
I still think you need to see the band live and not just listen to an album or watch a DVD, get out there and experience it as we do.
The raw energy, passion, excitement and pure enjoyment of it all.
It cannot be bettered (Just my opinion for what it's worth)
At least I can have an opinion on that as I unlike you have seen them live a few times:) :)
Cheers
-
Re: How does self-producing make one lazy?
No, no, no. My criticism of those 2000 albums was both lazy and insignificant. The lazy applies to the songs (mostly just by the numbers rockers or acoustic tunes, retreads of songs from previous albums) while the insignificant applies to the self-production. You are correct, self-producing ones record does not mean lazy, but it does deserve the criticism of making the work insignificant. Let me explain. In the early years, NMA were reaching for something special, something significant with their albums by linking up with some legendary producers - Glyn Johns, Tom Dowd, for instance. Music fans back then looked to see which producer their favorite band was working with next. Whether you like the band or not, the best way to illustrate that is with U2. When they announced they were going to have Brian Eno produce their next record, it was a hint that the band was looking to make something more significant than their earlier work. In fact, it did do that. A band linking up with Martin Hannet was always a good sign the band was looking for a more significant release. See that? Well, NMA self-producing much of the 2000 material indicates they were aiming low. No longer were they seeking out a famed producer like Glyn Johns or Tom Dowd who could add noted significance to the work.
-
See that? Well, NMA self-producing much of the 2000 material indicates they were aiming low.
Balls.
-
It's been a while since I've posted, been pottering with life and stuff. But I can't for the life of me figure out why everyone taking Space at all seriously? Why are you commenting and being drawn into an argument - something he plainly wants. The guy is an utter prick - he's commenting on a band he's never seen! Why are you giving him the time of day?! Whatever he posts just ignore it.
If he's such a great musician how come I've never heard of the prick and yet I have all of those NMA albums he claims are shite?
"Balls" - yep, best comment on the board this week!
-
When I criticize certain albums by NMA or any band, isn't it helpfull if I tell why I dislike those albums? You blast me for using words like "lazy" or "insignificant." Isn't that better than simply saying the albums stink? I am giving a why. [...]
If you browse some of the ealier threads about recent releases you can see there are some others too who were not into the albums that much. Such is life. But you seem to make some huge effort in trying to prove your argument with ten different threads man.
You serious about having correct opinions?
-
Good talk Eddyboy!
Well, we've had fun...
-
you always seemed to come across that your opinion is correct and ours didn't matter
Your opinions do matter to me. They make my opinions more correct.
Example: You stated this m6 pathway is a thing of wonder. I stated that Broadway and Times Square is a thing of wonder. Don't you see how your opinion makes mine look more correct?
DrummyB:
When I criticize certain albums by NMA or any band, isn't it helpfull if I tell why I dislike those albums? You blast me for using words like "lazy" or "insignificant." Isn't that better than simply saying the albums stink? I am giving a why. I feel the band set limited goals with their 2000s albums. They strived for very littl, much of the work was self-produced....that adds up to lazy and insignificant works.
I am not here to hurt people's feeling. Simply stating my views on NMA and their music. When I call certain albums lazy...well, don't take it personally. Am I supposed to like the exact same things as you? Say the exact same things you say about NMA? Come on, now.
Considering the title of this thread please note the comment that I've highlighted from a previous reply shows how much you know as BDAW was produced by Justin, Michael and Dean and co produced by Joe Barresi so does that make this a partly lazy and insignificant album!!
I await your response and further comments :) :)
-
Uhh, I know "Dog and Wolf" was self-produced. And it's a fine job. Justin has been self-producing a ton of his music for near thirty years. With all that time behind him, he'd better be capable of producing a top album.
Thing is we got his trial runs as released albums in the 2000s. Those albums were the guinea pigs, test subjects and unfortunately for us, that's what he was releasing."Dog and Wolf" is top notch production. All those attempts on earlier works definitely paid off. (And having Joe Barresi present didn't hurt at all.)
You guys really can't see that Justin was striving for something more with "Between Dog And Wolf"? That there was far more effort in this release than there has been in years and years?
-
Please don't use schizophrenic (or any illness) as an insult. It's an actual illness that people struggle with. Imagine hearing voices that don't exist, nobody can hear them but you. They exist in your mind. They tell you to do things and it's very frightening. It's not funny when about 15 percent of people with the illness commit suicide. Plus the context in which you used it make no sense at all.
Nobody cares if you like the old stuff more than the new but they do care that you are insulting to people and talk down to them. Somehow ,I doubt an artist would print and hang post where you basically said that 13 years of his/her albums have no artistic value. They are just fillers.
Also I don't know why you use being from New York as a reason for not liking things are being insulting. There are many New Yorkers that appreciate other places in the world. I had never heard of any of the places mentioned before NMA but the songs inspired me to look them up and I have now seen some of them in my travels. It's perfect escapism if you struggle with life. There is a certain romance about it too. :)
But every post seems to have something negative about the band's work. Then you always bring up Justin and say he would agree with you. After constantly criticizing half of the band's albums. As said musical opinions do not matter but have some understanding of why you get such a reaction.
-
Space, I'd say, if this is it, the high point of their career, then just run! Run! Don't stick around for more laziness and mediocreness! Off you go!
-
Uhh, I know "Dog and Wolf" was self-produced. And it's a fine job. Justin has been self-producing a ton of his music for near thirty years. With all that time behind him, he'd better be capable of producing a top album.
Thing is we got his trial runs as released albums in the 2000s. Those albums were the guinea pigs, test subjects and unfortunately for us, that's what he was releasing."Dog and Wolf" is top notch production. All those attempts on earlier works definitely paid off. (And having Joe Barresi present didn't hurt at all.)
You guys really can't see that Justin was striving for something more with "Between Dog And Wolf"? That there was far more effort in this release than there has been in years and years?
At the end of the day that is your opinion
I for one don't think that the 4 albums released in the 2000's were fillers, but then again my opinion only reinforces your opinion doesn't it.
Please tell me if once again I am wrong. ;D ;D
This thread is now run it's day.
No doubt you'll start another controversial one for our pleasure soon, or you could do us all a favour and do one :) :)