The official NMA board

General Category => New Model Army => Topic started by: Master Ray on March 20, 2015, 10:06:34 PM

Title: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Master Ray on March 20, 2015, 10:06:34 PM

 :o

I think we're all madly in love with the vast majority of NMA songs.  But, c'mon, after 30 plus years and three or four hundred tracks, there's gotta be one or two songs that we can't get to grips with and always skip past when it's on your stereo...  be honest now...  ???

For me, gotta be Archway Towers.  Never really liked that tune.

Not terribly fond of 'Afternoon Song' either...

And I bloody hate that remix of 'Over The Wire' from 'Lost Songs'... but I think most of us do...  ;D

Note - this is a nice thread, so let's be nice, OK?



Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Anna Woman von NRW on March 20, 2015, 10:10:35 PM
Water.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Brian-DC on March 20, 2015, 10:11:46 PM
Inheritance.  For me, the music never really goes anywhere.  I don't skip it, but I don't think I've ever felt the need to listen to that song in particular.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Shush on March 20, 2015, 10:19:59 PM
Whites of Their Eyes. For me the only low point on an otherwise excellent album.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Pol on March 20, 2015, 10:39:59 PM
Wow i love archways towers especially when played live. I don't mind the over the wire remix i don't  count it as a nma song its just a bit of fun. Don't like the vengeance remixes the 1st one is ok but I think I've only played the record a few times. Totally agree about inheritance probably my least favourite song It works well played live to be fair. Ok to add a couple of my own paekakariki beach mixam n ghosts
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Rusco on March 20, 2015, 10:54:22 PM
I still keep wondering the talk about Inheritance. I felt it as a high point with Purity on Impurity album.

However, there's a song that I've not liked so much: it's the Knife.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Shush on March 20, 2015, 10:58:36 PM
Paekakariki beach Pol ??, I adore that song. It's so laid back and flows so well. Ghost's. My favourite on BDAW by a long way.

Ah well, at least we both still have "No Pain" , right mate ?
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Pol on March 20, 2015, 11:48:10 PM
Oh well you cant agree on everything n i knew ghosts would be controversial No pain is very much my ghosts n in my head its always dedicated to those no longer with us. I not sure why i take that from the song
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Bunny on March 21, 2015, 12:21:18 AM
Whites of their eyes and Refugee. Not keen on Ghosts either. In fact Lost Songs and also the abandoned tracks albums have a lot of stuff I'm not over fond of.

I like the Over the Wire remix however. :)
.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Space on March 21, 2015, 02:03:53 AM
These are flat out awful songs:

"Sex (The Black Angel)" -- I forgive them this one, very early in their career

"Ballad" -- acoustic guitar + vocals + harmonica = boring

"I Love The World" -- how many times can you say "I love the world" in one song? Answer: too f***ing many.
"Archway Towers" -- is this supposed to be dramatic or something?

"Believe It" -- not terrible, just a lazy effort
"Understand U" --not terrible, just a lazy effort

"Aimless Desire" -- boy, is this song bad
"Gigabyte Wars" - oh, my God, those horns are the most hilariously awful thing I've ever heard
"Lullaby" - endless garbage. I put this song on Tuesday and it is still playing

"Someone Like Jesus" -- bad, hilariously bad Nick Cave immitation

every song on CARNIVAL is awful except for "BD3," "Island," and "Fireworks Night"

"God Save Me" -- uhh, didn't anybody notice the vocals were mixed way too high; another bad Nick Cave immitation song

78% of "Lost Songs" is horrendously awful (only "Brother," "F sharp NY," "Freedom '91," "Knife," and "Burning Season" are good)






Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Rusco on March 21, 2015, 03:51:46 AM
I really had to read couple of times who started this thread when I realised it's not a tricky New Yorker. ;D
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Ava Enturin on March 21, 2015, 06:30:10 AM
For me, on every album is one song that I'm not overly fond of, but the ones I really really don't like are "Arm yourself and run" and "Lean back and fall". Always skipping them, these songs have no second chance ;-)

Archway towers though - might just be one of my all - time favorites :-)
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: dark horse on March 21, 2015, 09:46:53 AM
Get Me Out. I really wish I could skip past that one at gigs.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Pol on March 21, 2015, 10:38:50 AM
I'm going to up the ante n say here comes the war its definitely not my favourite song and hey i get why others love it but for me its nma by numbers its definitely my least favourite song on lohc maybe its just been played too many times personally I'm glad to see it go from the set list
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: sozbot on March 21, 2015, 12:31:09 PM
States Radio. I enjoyed it to some degree when they played it at Northampton but was quite relieved when it was over. I just can't get into it.

Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: huwcamden on March 21, 2015, 02:36:27 PM
"Get me out", i never quite clicked with it although i love the thrash metal drumbeat an over all sentiment, its probally due to the fact that they have played it at every gig i've been to since 1991 at the expense of way better songs, sullivan often says that nma gig song selection is like a lottery but it ain't in this case, setlist fm has it as there most played song by some margin.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Amandistan on March 21, 2015, 03:39:29 PM
I like all of them live when I am enjoying the gig. I usually don't care.  Get me Out doesn't do it for me. It's not somthing I would usually listen to accept at a gig.  They play it every gig too.

Actually many of Space's are my faves!  ;D    but we all have out opinions.
I strangley love Whites of Their Eyes. even though i have heard many say it wasn't their thing.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Intothewind on March 21, 2015, 05:06:49 PM
There are songs I like more than others but none I dislike I'm afraid  :)

I was tempted to say 'Refugee' but when I listened to it recently I really enjoyed it. Even if I'm not initially keen there is usually something I end up liking about an NMA song.

So NMA along with a handful of other bands: Joy Division, The Chameleons haven't produced anything I really dislike, the difference is they're still going strong....amazing really  :D 
 
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Brian-DC on March 21, 2015, 09:29:42 PM
I usually don't like these kinds of threads (because I know the band reads the board and it's a little insulting to openly say you don't like some of their art), but I have to admit, I think it's pretty amazing that some of the least favorite songs from one person is always a favorite of others.  I think that's pretty cool.  Just goes to show what amazing writers they are to speak to people on so many different levels.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Master Ray on March 21, 2015, 09:49:27 PM
I usually don't like these kinds of threads (because I know the band reads the board and it's a little insulting to openly say you don't like some of their art), but I have to admit, I think it's pretty amazing that some of the least favorite songs from one person is always a favorite of others.  I think that's pretty cool.  Just goes to show what amazing writers they are to speak to people on so many different levels.

 
Brian, I don't think it's insulting at all.  In fact, I'm sure that the NMA guys would be interested in hearing about what tracks didn't work for some of their fans.  From my (admittedly brief) meetings with various NMA folks over the years, I think that they aren't arrogant enough to think that everything they do is perfection.

But you're right, the diversity of opinions when you talk about NMA and the love shown for the band... now, that IS perfection!

 :D
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: jackroadkill on March 21, 2015, 10:22:34 PM
For me it's Did You Make It Safe, which grates, I'm afraid.  That two chord chime and the "...to the sunlight... to the water...." are a real turn off for me.

That said, I had to think quite hard of one I really would rather not listen to, so that's no bad thing, I think.

It's very interesting to see what others have chosen, and it shows a pretty diverse spread which I'm sure reflects the diverse nature of the family's members.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Rusco on March 22, 2015, 07:11:22 AM
I agree with Amandistan about the list of songs that Space put up. A set list of them would be nice to see. Many gems there: Archway Towers, Aimless Desire etc. Also the whole of Lost Songs on disc 1 is true NMA - songs that could easily wipe other bands off the table any day.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: huwcamden on March 22, 2015, 09:34:58 AM
I hear you with that rusco, anyone who doesnt like "aimless desire" has clearly never worked shift in a deadend industrial job, just listen to the "found a bird caught in the machinery" line and "someone like jesus" the third best song nma have written that makes nick cave look like shit leonard cohen as for "archway towers" do those who hate this song know what it is and symbolises? I drive past it everyday, there probally to dumb and lazy to find out.x
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Intothewind on March 22, 2015, 10:50:20 AM
I hear you with that rusco, anyone who doesnt like "aimless desire" has clearly never worked shift in a deadend industrial job, just listen to the "found a bird caught in the machinery" line and "someone like jesus" the third best song nma have written that makes nick cave look like shit leonard cohen as for "archway towers" do those who hate this song know what it is and symbolises? I drive past it everyday, there probally to dumb and lazy to find out.x

I actually think Someone like Jesus sounds nothing like Nick Cave, It's a very lazy comparison - spoken word, low voice. The writing is very different as is the sound of the music. Nick Cave would never write those words, not the sort of allusions he would make. He may use religious themes but it's in a very different way for me.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: tsimpnma on March 22, 2015, 12:50:09 PM
Today is a good day is the worst for me.Also,I don't like Archway towers , Carlisle Road,Someone like Jesus, Ghosts,Sex(the black angel) and some of the Lost Songs album.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Red on March 22, 2015, 01:29:24 PM
For me I don't really like Get Me Out or Stupid Questions
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: texaspete on March 22, 2015, 01:40:59 PM
Depends the level of which you take the songs.
Believe it is part of an album, a piece of art. The artist made a record true to themselves.
You can't please everyone can you.

What is unpleasant is seeing dismissive comments almost belittling the work.

LS43 written in key of F isn't immediately an ear worm but one drive over Baildon Moor coupled with that pic by Joolz that depicts a couple high up there gazing down to the mass of orange sulphur streetlights and you get it!

If you want a 3 min pop song by oasis then fine but with JS and the JD collaboration you have sonething much deeper and wondrous.

How would you feel if someone visited your homepa and was so harsh?

Could you do any better?
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Space on March 22, 2015, 03:01:52 PM
there probally to dumb and lazy to find out.x


Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!

People are posting the songs they don't care for and we have all respected others' choices. Then we have this poster huwcamden who calls people who don't care for "Archway Towers" "dumb and lazy."

Unreal. We are "dumb" because we don't like a song that he likes.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Pol on March 22, 2015, 03:42:15 PM
Archway towers is one of the most passionate angry songs ever written Its the one song that i would defend all the way that has been mentioned on this post. If anyone cares to check i said it was the best song played on the bdaw tour No ! No ! No !
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: texaspete on March 22, 2015, 04:17:33 PM
Space, sorry Mark if you hadn't been so blunt with your comments about this bands songs he (HUW) wouldn't have been so direct in retort. why not attempt a more eloquent appraisal or otherwise of the product the band have clearly laboured long to produce?

Do you have any a more constructive description of songs you don't like other than, lazy, awful etc?

The remarks themselves are rather lazy and rather ignorant of the bigger picture.
Sometimes songs are more a compliment to the theme of an album, allegoric even?
 
you are a musician, artist?
Why not post something of your own for us to comment on?

TXP
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Jibberish on March 22, 2015, 06:39:48 PM
Mixam, Stupid Questions, Mambo Queen and Song to the Men of England get the skip treatment from me; the last of those four being the one NMA track I really dislike if I have to choose just one. And the Gimme Shelter cover  makes me shudder.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: huwcamden on March 22, 2015, 07:11:52 PM
The truth hurts does it spacey mate, anyhow glad to see i'm getting to you! If you care to read what i said about "archway towers" properly it was that people who "hate" this song are probally to lazy or dumb to know what it is about, this was aimed specifically at you and you have now proven my point twice you doughnut!
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Master Ray on March 22, 2015, 07:33:29 PM

As the numbskull who started this thread, can I just say I'm surprised that 'Get Me Out' seems to be the song popping up most...  in my damn-near 25 years of NMA-gig-going (I must be closing in on a hundred gigs by now), it's the one song that has been played EVERY time... except for Nottingham last Christmas...  really surprised by that.  Personally, I think it's a cracker...




Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Pol on March 22, 2015, 07:41:07 PM
Get me out is a excellent song and a mosh pit favourite I'm definitely not going to knock the song, maybe it has been played a bit too often and needs a bit of time in storage to return to its former glory
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Space on March 22, 2015, 07:56:15 PM
The truth hurts does it spacey mate, anyhow glad to see i'm getting to you! If you care to read what i said about "archway towers" properly it was that people who "hate" this song are probally to lazy or dumb to know what it is about, this was aimed specifically at you and you have now proven my point twice you doughnut!

No, kid, I'm just pointing out to you how stupid you are to call people "dumb" just because they don't like a song that you like. You really can't see that is idiotic?

I'll demonstrate:
You don't like "Get Me Out." That's because you are too dumb to understand what Justin is writing about in that song.

How's that feel, kid?

Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: texaspete on March 22, 2015, 08:00:59 PM
what is he writing about?
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: texaspete on March 22, 2015, 08:02:33 PM
plus can you confirm for us, that in fact you  aren't Mark Steven?

His tone is remarkable similar to yours?
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: huwcamden on March 22, 2015, 08:17:51 PM
Point proven 3 times now spacey doughnut boy we do indeed have a winner!!! 😂
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Master Ray on March 22, 2015, 08:29:03 PM
Um, who the heck is Mark Steven?

 :o
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Viv Savage on March 22, 2015, 08:54:21 PM
No, it is not Mark Stevens.

This was an interesting thread taken down by the petty and inappropriate comments of a select few. Pity. I thought it was an interesting thread.

Pete, Huw,  Space et al stop this pathetic bickering. Stop it now. I will not be giving another warning.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Anna Woman von NRW on March 22, 2015, 08:57:35 PM
Not Again - FFS  >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(

Space - When are you gonna stop picking fights with every Tom, Dick & Harry ?

Everyone Else - Unfortunately it seems like it always ends up like this. so just enjoy the chat while it remains civil and then just walk away when the inevitable happens.

This is getting really ******* tedious. Good topics of conversation degenerate into stupid playground wily waving nonsense again and again.

Does everyone have to be sent to the Naughty Stair for a bit of Time Out ?

Bored.

 >:(
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Shush on March 22, 2015, 09:19:36 PM
It's simple. No one seems to like what he has to say yet people are still replying to him. Feed the troll, he will come back for seconds  >:(
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: jackroadkill on March 22, 2015, 09:23:20 PM
With a cannon of so many songs it not that surprising that there are a few that just don't do it for certain people (me included).  I'd say that for me NMA have a 98%-ish hit rate, which isn't bad at all, in my view.  Furthermore I don't feel let down or angry that the other couple of percent of their output doesn't do it for me personally.

At the risk of sounding a bit Neil, why don't we all just calm down and talk about it as the OP intended?
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Pol on March 22, 2015, 09:25:41 PM
I'm with Anna I'm not putting the blame on any one person.
Just disappointed that a good thread where everyone is entitled to their opinion has descended to this. Come on guys we are all adults
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Master Ray on March 22, 2015, 09:31:06 PM
With a cannon of so many songs it not that surprising that there are a few that just don't do it for certain people (me included).  I'd say that for me NMA have a 98%-ish hit rate, which isn't bad at all, in my view.  Furthermore I don't feel let down or angry that the other couple of percent of their output doesn't do it for me personally.

At the risk of sounding a bit Neil, why don't we all just calm down and talk about it as the OP intended?

As the OP, can I just say... ****, yes please... 

 ???
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Willard on March 22, 2015, 10:28:55 PM
I'm a big fan of States Radio, except for the numbers of the radio stations.  I think, here in the USA anyway, that all FM radio stations end in an odd number. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FM_radio_stations_in_the_United_States_by_call_sign_%28initial_letters_WG%E2%80%93WJ%29

I've always been a bit bothered that some in that song end in even numbers. 
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Anna Woman von NRW on March 22, 2015, 10:40:59 PM
Awesome Willard  ;D  :-*
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Willard on March 22, 2015, 10:45:04 PM
Make it ok, make it ok, God please make it ok!

Pressed uniforms and body bags

Love it
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Space on March 22, 2015, 10:53:22 PM
Why not look at the positive side of this thread.

I am number one here in listing the highest number of NMA songs that I dislike, and, yet, that number is only 20. Think about that. Thirty plus years of making music -- a whole lot of albums, singles, B-sides, extra tracks, discarded tracks -- and only 20 bad tunes.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Master Ray on March 22, 2015, 11:13:35 PM
Why not look at the positive side of this thread.

I am number one here in listing the highest number of NMA songs that I dislike, and, yet, that number is only 20. Think about that. Thirty plus years of making music -- a whole lot of albums, singles, B-sides, extra tracks, discarded tracks -- and only 20 bad tunes.

But they're not bad tunes... they are tunes that you regard as 'bad'.

Big difference, fella...

Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Space on March 22, 2015, 11:34:12 PM
But they're not bad tunes... they are tunes that you regard as 'bad'.


No, no, no. That is the old 'art is subjective' debate you are bringing up. "That is not a bad song, it is just your opinion that it is bad."

No, my friend, there are songs, movies, paintings, plays, books that are just flat out bad. Subjectivity has nothing to do with it. Jon Bon Jovi's song "Bad Medicine" is bad. In so many ways -- musically cliched, hackneyed production, infantile lyrics -- it is bad.

You are suggesting a song is bad only to those who think it is bad. So in your view, every single song ever recorded is good! You might want to check on that theory of yours. I've heard some bad songs in my life, and, I'm sure, so have you.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Pol on March 22, 2015, 11:56:06 PM
My mate loves bon jovi n since she is from the east end of Glasgow i wouldn't want to argue with her plus bon jovi have sold 10s of millions of albums they must have something personally i don't see it but hey I'm a weirdo nma fan. I think that there just a easy target for people. Plus there is lots of painting i hate but they sell for many millions so what do i know
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Master Ray on March 23, 2015, 12:10:04 AM
Jeez, Space... if you can't figure out that art IS subjective then there is utterly no hope for you.  Seriously, you are far gone and out...

What anyone likes or loves, whether it be music, films, paintings, sculptures, food, places they have travelled to, people they have met, etc etc ******* etc... it's about the eye of the beholder and what strikes a chord in their heart.  Not one absolute opinion from someone so arrogant that they think that was they say 'goes'...

'every single song ever recorded is good'... YES, in someones eyes, whether it be One Direction, Cliff Richard, Celine Dion, pick your bad act of choice.  You're from the US, thought you lot believed in freedom of speech and, by definition, opinion?

I've tried to be nice to you, man, at a genuine risk of falling out with long-term friends from this forum who were far more offended by your bullshit than I was... your posts have now fallen into utter idiocy and I don't care what happens now.  All the best, pal.   ::)



Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Space on March 23, 2015, 01:19:06 AM
Master Ray, there is good and there is bad. A piece of music can be good, it can bad. Opinions have zero to do with that. Extreme case: Play something completely out of key, out of time, out of tune, lyrics that are jibberish...that would be bad. The creator may think it is good, but he'd be wrong. It's bad. You can coddle them and build their self-esteem by telling them it is brilliant, but the truth is it is bad. Music, songs can be bad. If you don't believe that, then you are on an island alone.

Critics in the media do not voice their opinions when they review something -- they take a criteria and judge the work using that criteria. If a movie is completely out of focus, has nonsensical editing, plot holes that you can drive a truck through, acting that a sixth grader would laugh at, effects that are hilarious....it is a bad film! Go see PLAN NINE FROM OUTER SPACE. My God, it is bad! That's not an opinion, it is bad. Artistic creations can be bad. You honestly don't see that?
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: szmurf on March 23, 2015, 02:02:12 AM
you have now proven my point twice you doughnut!

MMMMMMM - Doughnuts ......
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: szmurf on March 23, 2015, 02:16:43 AM
Art IS objective.  I find a crucifix placed in a jar of urine a vile and pathetic load of crap; some people think it's worth spending their money on.
I bet you will find for every song in your list of 20 "bad" songs, at least one person on this board that likes it.  So, if you're saying it's bad, can you can scientifically prove that it's bad?  Does that make the person that likes it stupid?  I don't like calling people stupid, and I know that most people (yourself included) don't like being labeled it.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Ava Enturin on March 23, 2015, 08:15:06 AM
Yeah, me for one obsolutely loves Ballad, and I don´t feel stupid for it :)
There are so many levels of appreciation for a song, for instance lyrics, or the feeling that a song transpires.

And simple concepts like "true" and "false" don´t work anyway when human beings are in the mix, being the irrational entities we are.

Nobody is anybody others meter.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Master Ray on March 23, 2015, 07:45:46 PM
Master Ray, there is good and there is bad. A piece of music can be good, it can bad. Opinions have zero to do with that. Extreme case: Play something completely out of key, out of time, out of tune, lyrics that are jibberish...that would be bad. The creator may think it is good, but he'd be wrong. It's bad. You can coddle them and build their self-esteem by telling them it is brilliant, but the truth is it is bad. Music, songs can be bad. If you don't believe that, then you are on an island alone.

Critics in the media do not voice their opinions when they review something -- they take a criteria and judge the work using that criteria. If a movie is completely out of focus, has nonsensical editing, plot holes that you can drive a truck through, acting that a sixth grader would laugh at, effects that are hilarious....it is a bad film! Go see PLAN NINE FROM OUTER SPACE. My God, it is bad! That's not an opinion, it is bad. Artistic creations can be bad. You honestly don't see that?

OK, I'll bite...

PLAN 9 is a film that should have disappeared in the 50's, yet people still talk about it, Tim Burton did an excellent film about Ed Wood and I hear there's a remake about to happen... why?  Because people enjoy it for whatever qualities (or lack thereof) it has.  Personally, I got some laughs out of it... is a laugh not a valid reaction to whatever 'art' (and yes, even the worst film is a piece of art) is being presented to you?

Which brings us back to the point... any kind of art is completely, absolutely, 100% subjective.  Any other arguement is utterly invalid.  I mentioned a couple of acts that I utterly hate yet millions enjoy.  Are they all wrong because they disagree with me?  What kind of egomaniac would that make me?  Oh yeah...  ::)

Your 'absolute' opinions on those NMA tunes are 'opinion', masquerading as 'fact' and are therefore just babblings of someone who has far too high an opinion of himself.  You are not the designator of what is good and bad in the world of NMA.  None of us are. 

Now, I've 'met' people like you on various Internet forums... you want attention.  Fine.  The NMA forum is a great place, but your stuff is upsetting some good folks (who've tried to reach out to you) and it's kicking up a stink that was amusing for a bit but is now offensive / boring / pathetic.  I don't say this anything with a high opinion of himself or who thinks he holds any great sway here... just trying to be a nice guy.  Your posts about those 20 NMA tracks were not nice.

Again, in bold type and underlined, just in case you're a bit slow on the uptake...

ART IS SUBJECTIVE!!!!


Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Intothewind on March 24, 2015, 11:43:17 AM
Right, so I think you can objectively critique a piece of Art using various formal methods. You can say that Bad Medicine by Bon Jovi is cliche, however I deeply love Bad Medicine for those reasons and also for no reason at all other than I really enjoy hearing it - it makes me happy.

I also feel like Music is in a different bracket to other forms of art. I have been in arts education for most of my adult life and there are huge areas of critical theory usually connected to the history of art and culture - a massive, highly complicated field of study that lets face it not everyone is going to undertake. I really like the fact that music is less reliant on this kind of objectivity and leans for closer to subjective reading.

I actually go further I thing that music criticism is a largely redundant form (for me anyway, he he) music critics are paid to listen to a vast quantity of music and find different/interesting things to write about each. This just isn't how most people (or just me again???) listen to music. So their apparently objective criticism of music masks all kinds of editorial biases and (god forbid!) personal taste.         

In the end you can be objective about a piece of music but that objectivity don't mean shit if you like it. I just don't feel that objectivity and subjectivity are not helpful determining factors when talking about music and that is one of musics eternal strengths: do I like it?   
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Bunny on March 24, 2015, 11:56:54 AM
It would be nigh on impossible to like every song a band makes and Id hazard a guess that there are songs individual band members aren't keen on. However I think its suffice to say you dont like something without ripping it to shreds. Everyones tastes are different. Otherwise whats the point in styles and genres of music. As MR says its subjective.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Intothewind on March 24, 2015, 12:16:46 PM
Ahh yes this is criticism etiquette. Personally I don't mind someone slagging off something I deeply love - I still love it, it doesn't affect me.

I think I terms of this board, I personally have no reason to argue or be damning about NMA with anyone. Because this is a heaven in a largely NMA indifferent world. This dosn't stop me saying what I feel although I seem to be largely positive about NMA - but thats why I'm here right?

I have enough arguments in the real world without bringing it here!     
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Tony S on March 24, 2015, 02:00:27 PM
Inheritance.  For me, the music never really goes anywhere.  I don't skip it, but I don't think I've ever felt the need to listen to that song in particular.

I guess this one is almost bordering on spoken word, rather than musical song in a way. It does have some great vocal lines, like "Mother, Father, I am your son, right down to the long thin, pointed face, and this muddled up and twisted tongue". Love that !  :)
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Adrian W on March 24, 2015, 02:06:19 PM
I do like this thread, simply because of the diversity of opinion with one person's favourite being in others list of their dislikes.

For me Aimless Desire has always been the track that I really couldn't get on with. It seemed to be a fixture in the set list for ages and never got me going. No others get my goat quite so much, but over 35 years and however many albums, I guss that that is not a bad return.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Intothewind on March 24, 2015, 02:14:49 PM
Inheritance.  For me, the music never really goes anywhere.  I don't skip it, but I don't think I've ever felt the need to listen to that song in particular.

I guess this one is almost bordering on spoken word, rather than musical song in a way. It does have some great vocal lines, like "Mother, Father, I am your son, right down to the long thin, pointed face, and this muddled up and twisted tongue". Love that !  :)

Inheritance is a brilliant song, with fantastic lyrics. I love the way this is stripped down to the drums and voice. further instrumentation would have made this just another track and it is brave of them to create diverse work in this way.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: texaspete on March 24, 2015, 02:35:15 PM
The Js/DW version of AD takes it to another level ... Gives it something it lacks on the SB record.

Another good example of this is their version of ONE BULLET!

TXP
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Sequoia225 on March 24, 2015, 04:52:44 PM

This was an interesting thread taken down by the petty and inappropriate comments of a select few. Pity. I thought it was an interesting thread.

Pete, Huw,  Space et al stop this pathetic bickering. Stop it now. I will not be giving another warning.

now admittedly I have not really been an active part of this board in a long time - and it definitely has changed, but I find it interesting the short memory of the board as I remember back in the mid 2000s this SAME thread (and after a couple pages Joolz got on here scolding everyone for making such comments about the music on the home site of the band - and basically deemed it inappropriate for this board. Not that I disagreed with her arguments at all...
What is also interesting is, after many gigs here in the states - watching (and being a part of) everyone hanging before and after the shows to say a few words to Justin and the boys (whoever happened to be around), and I cant imagine any of these people here EVER entertaining THIS conversation in the physical presence with the band members , but if I remember correctly Joolz likened this type of thread to something of this board being THEIR home and asking if you would really step into the home of NMA without considering how your comments might feel for them to read in their own "home".

Now, that was back in a time people really didnt get banned (that I remember and I was here a lot) (or even warned about it) nor was the board censored like it is now, and there was LOTS of heated debate about a great many things...but it was not uncommon for Joolz to come around and scold people here and there and even JS did the same on rare occasion.

Im not for censoring anything or anyone on a board like this (just my opinion) as I feel the crowd can self regulate well enough and no one is physically fighting, and thats a conversation for another thread...but I have to say despite that opinion, I am surprised that this type of thread of discussing the "worst NMA songs" is now a lot more welcomed and entertained here than it was 10 years ago, though, any general heated debate (among a very passionate crowd) is not.


Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Rusco on March 24, 2015, 05:03:53 PM

Inheritance is a brilliant song, with fantastic lyrics. I love the way this is stripped down to the drums and voice. further instrumentation would have made this just another track and it is brave of them to create diverse work in this way.

Yea indeed. I think it's the authentic way of JS' expression. There's something very similar with the "flow" in Smalltown England, Southwest, Family, R'n'R, Archway Towers and especially Another Imperial Day. It sounds like Justin takes a lead rhythm himself by lyrically not the drums or bass. It's like he's nearly out of control. I couldn't describe this better way...
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Bunny on March 24, 2015, 05:06:40 PM
Interesting points you make Sequoia  and part of me agrees. BUT its avalid topic of conversation, if its fair comments being made. As Ive said there are songs Im not keen on. I'll never slag them off cos it is entirely personal and if by some miracle someone from the band asked why Id hope itd be understood. Not a criticism in sight. Just doesnt do anything for me.

Be a bland world if everything was sanctioned and controlled to niceties.That said there are nicer ways of saying things than have been.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Sequoia225 on March 24, 2015, 05:26:38 PM

 You're from the US, thought you lot believed in freedom of speech and, by definition, opinion?

hahaha - seriously?
I said this countless times years ago - but any time any of you from across the Atlantic try to say that WE LOT believe in any ONE thing together, you are likely to be flat out mistaken. haha (Im being friendly here - not argumentative).
America is HUGE - and I would argue as diverse and divided as many of the European countries.
We are the most together in our ignorance of the rest of the world and arrogance about our country and I wouldnt go much beyond that.

or maybe I am just really jaded. ;)






Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Bunny on March 24, 2015, 05:29:28 PM
Not sure of the point you're making mate?? :-\
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Sequoia225 on March 24, 2015, 05:54:01 PM
Interesting points you make Sequoia  and part of me agrees. BUT its avalid topic of conversation, if its fair comments being made. As Ive said there are songs Im not keen on. I'll never slag them off cos it is entirely personal and if by some miracle someone from the band asked why Id hope itd be understood. Not a criticism in sight. Just doesnt do anything for me.

Be a bland world if everything was sanctioned and controlled to niceties.That said there are nicer ways of saying things than have been.
Cheers Drummyb, I agree, as I stated, I am not for any sort of censoring and controlling of conversation on boards like this. Its part of what made me leave when the board was re-booted as conversation (and even words) were much more heavily regulated.

But I have to admit I felt some agreements of Joolz statements about this topic.

Something starts to bother me when I realize people wouldnt be saying the same thing if they were truly physically in the other peoples presence. Its a strange social thing this sort of medium creates in that way...Not to say I have not been guilty of the same in my day frequenting this board.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Sequoia225 on March 24, 2015, 05:54:53 PM
Not sure of the point you're making mate?? :-\
sorry - I screwed my my posts and formatting. - again - not used to posting on here. My reply to you is in the later post. lol.
Im just making a mess of things.

ok fixed the previous post now. sorry everyone.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Bunny on March 24, 2015, 06:00:26 PM
Interesting points you make Sequoia  and part of me agrees. BUT its avalid topic of conversation, if its fair comments being made. As Ive said there are songs Im not keen on. I'll never slag them off cos it is entirely personal and if by some miracle someone from the band asked why Id hope itd be understood. Not a criticism in sight. Just doesnt do anything for me.

Be a bland world if everything was sanctioned and controlled to niceties.That said there are nicer ways of saying things than have been.
Cheers Drummyb, I agree, as I stated, I am not for any sort of censoring and controlling of conversation on boards like this. Its part of what made me leave when the board was re-booted as conversation (and even words) were much more heavily regulated.

But I have to admit I felt some agreements of Joolz statements about this topic.

Something starts to bother me when I realize people wouldnt be saying the same thing if they were truly physically in the other peoples presence. Its a strange social thing this sort of medium creates in that way...Not to say I have not been guilty of the same in my day frequenting this board.

Got ya now. Yeah. Written word can be interpreted in many ways I guess and throw away words that in a different time and place would be said differently. And you dont have the social/political pecking orders on here that exist in the real world.
I cant comment on what went before cos I wasnt here. By and large its a decent group on here or I wouldnt be involved.

I'm with you entirely. Nice one.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Space on March 24, 2015, 06:19:55 PM

Something starts to bother me when I realize people wouldnt be saying the same thing if they were truly physically in the other peoples presence.


Why do you assume we wouldn't be able to speak our opinions in the presence of those we are speaking about? Is it really wrong, bad manners, cold-hearted, whatever to say to an artist I didn't like such and such song because...? When we converse with an enteratiner should we simply do the standard twelve year old kid stuff, "Oh, my GOD! You are the best! I have every album! I have your picture on my wall! Oh, my God you are the cooleset bestest person in the world!!!"

No thanks to that.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Shush on March 24, 2015, 06:30:44 PM
Personally I do follow the idea that you should only say on here what you think about the band and the music things that you would be prepared to say to their faces. After all, this is the NMA forum, they do look at it from time to time. 99% of comments here about the band and its music are positive as you would expect for a forum made up of followers of the band.
With regards this question, if any of the band members asked me if there were any songs I did not like, I would be prepared to tell them. Nothing wrong with constructive criticism.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Master Ray on March 24, 2015, 07:03:35 PM

 You're from the US, thought you lot believed in freedom of speech and, by definition, opinion?

hahaha - seriously?
I said this countless times years ago - but any time any of you from across the Atlantic try to say that WE LOT believe in any ONE thing together, you are likely to be flat out mistaken. haha (Im being friendly here - not argumentative).
America is HUGE - and I would argue as diverse and divided as many of the European countries.
We are the most together in our ignorance of the rest of the world and arrogance about our country and I wouldnt go much beyond that.

or maybe I am just really jaded. ;)





Sequinoa, I didn't mean to insult.  It was a blunt statement, granted, but I stand by it.

I have been to the US several times and I can honestly say the people I met there were open-minded, friendly and genuinely interested in meeting someone from a different continent.  I had some amazing times with lovely folks.

Which is why it upsets me when somebody posts from the US and plugs into some idiotic and COMPLETELY untrue idea of how ignorant / arrogant Americans are, like some cliché from a shit movie.  The people I've met DO believe in freedom of speech and opinion and couldn't have been more polite about it... well, there was one a-hole in Chicago, but we won't talk about that...  ::)   ;)

So, again, sorry if I caused offence.  It was aimed at Space, not the lovely folks of the US.



Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Anna Woman von NRW on March 24, 2015, 07:07:23 PM
[ Is it really wrong, bad manners, cold-hearted, whatever to say to an artist I didn't like such and such song because...?

Of course it's not. If it was then I'm sure this thread would have been removed when it first appeared.

I really can't be arsed to try and explain concepts such as manners, civility and respect for others to you yet again.

Back to the thread .............

I don't really like Seven Times and usually skip that one. Dunno why I don't like it. It just doesn't do it for me. I don't get/feel it.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Shush on March 24, 2015, 07:14:56 PM
When listening on I-pod, there are only three I instantly skip, Song to the men of Eng-ger-land (sorry M/R, couldn't resist it), Over the wire French remix, and Whites of their eyes. Out of over 200 songs, I am not complaining  ;)
Other songs which I may not too keen on I listen to as part of the experience of listening to the album they are on
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: texaspete on March 24, 2015, 07:18:48 PM
Hi Sequioa (spelt wrong) good to see you back...

I for one think Joolz did the right thing. She can be abrasive but we need a fire-brand like that sometimes.

Plus she was being loyal and wanting the family to play nice.

She only intervened when things got disrespectful which I believe this thread has!

Plus i'd much rather hear why you like / love a certain song.

In a world weary with negativity I could do without it personally.

So turn the thread on it's head, what song do you love and why?

Ok, I could talk all day about BAD OLD WORLD but in a nutshell,

No matter where I am, what i'm doing that song reminds me of the romance of the road, the chance of escape.
The euphoric verse where JS eloquently describes 'being up on the north coast'.
The chorus of 'I'm never going back there..."
I was fortunate enough to be in Hyde 4 years ago, where upstairs above a pub, The Verge I think it was called they played it on request in the encore. It turned into the most raucous singalong ever and there was even an impromtu mosh-pit.

Truly life affirming stuff!

And here it is....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MZyE1yF26o&spfreload=10


TXP
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Master Ray on March 24, 2015, 07:40:15 PM
Hi Sequioa (spelt wrong) good to see you back...

I for one think Joolz did the right thing. She can be abrasive but we need a fire-brand like that sometimes.

Plus she was being loyal and wanting the family to play nice.

She only intervened when things got disrespectful which I believe this thread has!

Plus i'd much rather hear why you like / love a certain song.

In a world weary with negativity I could do without it personally.

So turn the thread on it's head, what song do you love and why?

Ok, I could talk all day about BAD OLD WORLD but in a nutshell,

No matter where I am, what i'm doing that song reminds me of the romance of the road, the chance of escape.
The euphoric verse where JS eloquently describes 'being up on the north coast'.
The chorus of 'I'm never going back there..."
I was fortunate enough to be in Hyde 4 years ago, where upstairs above a pub, The Verge I think it was called they played it on request in the encore. It turned into the most raucous singalong ever and there was even an impromtu mosh-pit.

Truly life affirming stuff!

And here it is....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MZyE1yF26o&spfreload=10


TXP

TXP, that's a brilliant new thread right there, rather than tacking it on the end of another one!

Gonna start racking my brains now...

 :)
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Intothewind on March 24, 2015, 07:43:06 PM
I agree with so much negatively and so little NMA in the world why would I want to be negative here???

Arm yourselves and run is a bloody great tune..... :D :D :D
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Bunny on March 24, 2015, 07:48:50 PM
Honestly. Toooo many favourites and likes to list. Thats why I love em and what they do. One constant in my life  :)
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Viv Savage on March 24, 2015, 08:55:46 PM
"that was back in a time people really didnt get banned (that I remember and I was here a lot) (or even warned about it) nor was the board censored like it is now" - Sequoia225

Actually, to put the record straight there has only been two people banned in the last five years. It is not the policy of this board to ban people for no good reason. As for censorship on this board, a couple of posts were removed last week because they went way beyond banter and were down right offensive. Any other posts that have been removed were not by my hands but from the original poster or commentor - everyone has the right to delete their own comments.

Sadly, in the last couple of weeks I have had no option but to read the riot act several times and I do not think anyone on here has covered themselves with any glory at all. Myself included. If we are to continue the home analogy, that this is someone elses home, please treat it and the people herein with the respect it, and they, actually deserve.  Time for peace to break out...
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Sequoia225 on March 24, 2015, 09:44:38 PM

Sequinoa, I didn't mean to insult.  It was a blunt statement, granted, but I stand by it.

I have been to the US several times and I can honestly say the people I met there were open-minded, friendly and genuinely interested in meeting someone from a different continent.  I had some amazing times with lovely folks.

Which is why it upsets me when somebody posts from the US and plugs into some idiotic and COMPLETELY untrue idea of how ignorant / arrogant Americans are, like some cliché from a shit movie.  The people I've met DO believe in freedom of speech and opinion and couldn't have been more polite about it... well, there was one a-hole in Chicago, but we won't talk about that...  ::)   ;)

So, again, sorry if I caused offence.  It was aimed at Space, not the lovely folks of the US.


no no - of course...not insulted. Its pretty hard to genuinely insult me. Thats why I wrote "just being friendly here, not argumentative". I was just poking fun at this crazy country while also informing.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Red on March 24, 2015, 09:52:32 PM
"that was back in a time people really didnt get banned (that I remember and I was here a lot) (or even warned about it) nor was the board censored like it is now" - Sequoia225

Actually, to put the record straight there has only been two people banned in the last five years. It is not the policy of this board to ban people for no good reason. As for censorship on this board, a couple of posts were removed last week because they went way beyond banter and were down right offensive. Any other posts that have been removed were not by my hands but from the original poster or commentor - everyone has the right to delete their own comments.

Sadly, in the last couple of weeks I have had no option but to read the riot act several times and I do not think anyone on here has covered themselves with any glory at all. Myself included. If we are to continue the home analogy, that this is someone elses home, please treat it and the people herein with the respect it, and they, actually deserve.  Time for peace to break out...

If there was a 'like' icon I'd post it now

I hope the virtual handshake is accepted by all.

I'll be the first to offer the hand of friendship and peace :):)
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Pazza on March 24, 2015, 10:21:19 PM
I only read the last page of this thread and the thing about it with NMA is that I don't really not like any songs, the one I'd sneak out during it being played is probably 225, but then I snuck out at the Roadmender during No Greater Love which I love, just cos I'd drunk too many pints of cider shortly before kick off  :-[
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Sequoia225 on March 24, 2015, 10:26:34 PM
"that was back in a time people really didnt get banned (that I remember and I was here a lot) (or even warned about it) nor was the board censored like it is now" - Sequoia225

Actually, to put the record straight there has only been two people banned in the last five years. It is not the policy of this board to ban people for no good reason. As for censorship on this board, a couple of posts were removed last week because they went way beyond banter and were down right offensive. Any other posts that have been removed were not by my hands but from the original poster or commentor - everyone has the right to delete their own comments.

Sadly, in the last couple of weeks I have had no option but to read the riot act several times and I do not think anyone on here has covered themselves with any glory at all. Myself included. If we are to continue the home analogy, that this is someone elses home, please treat it and the people herein with the respect it, and they, actually deserve.  Time for peace to break out...

Fair enough Viv,  - I am speaking more to what happened some years back when the board was rebooted. My memory is hazy but I remember a lot of new rules about "bad words" and expressing oneself, and things got a bit different in general regarding general discussion. This was years back. I havent been around and cant speak to the last 5 years other than the "last couple weeks" I have read some threadsy. Didnt mean to mis-represent anything.

I merely was surprised this conversation went as far as it did considering my memory of a time in the past the EXACT same type of thread was posted. I think its fine to give opinions about the music here and such, I just thought Joolz had a point in reminding the people here that there are living, breathing souls residing here, that put a lot of heart into creating this music, and if you are going to feel critical, consider HOW you would express yourself if you stepped into someones home and critiqued about the paintings hanging on the walls they painted themselves. Thats all.



Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Sequoia225 on March 24, 2015, 10:32:52 PM

Something starts to bother me when I realize people wouldnt be saying the same thing if they were truly physically in the other peoples presence.


Why do you assume we wouldn't be able to speak our opinions in the presence of those we are speaking about? Is it really wrong, bad manners, cold-hearted, whatever to say to an artist I didn't like such and such song because...? When we converse with an enteratiner should we simply do the standard twelve year old kid stuff, "Oh, my GOD! You are the best! I have every album! I have your picture on my wall! Oh, my God you are the cooleset bestest person in the world!!!"

No thanks to that.

sigh - I wrote a response to you CLARIFYING my words and admitting a blanket assumption on how you all would behave is unfair of me, but I deleted it as I have littered this thread enough, but in general - to many of your questions, my answer is "NO" - I did not say exactly things you imply I said,  or said I implied, or whatever. Sorry for the confusion.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: dark horse on March 25, 2015, 12:06:51 AM
Trying to get back to the original question in this thread - it occurred to me that iTunes actually keeps track of which songs I skip. So I went and had a look. The three NMA songs I've skipped past most often are:

Vagabonds
Vengeance
51st State

Make of that what you want...
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Anna Woman von NRW on March 25, 2015, 12:12:16 AM
Actually Vagabonds & 51st State are songs I rarely listen to - except for the bootleg Nottingham 14 Vagabonds youtube vid  :-[
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Amandistan on April 22, 2015, 09:05:43 PM
I only read the last page of this thread and the thing about it with NMA is that I don't really not like any songs, the one I'd sneak out during it being played is probably 225, but then I snuck out at the Roadmender during No Greater Love which I love, just cos I'd drunk too many pints of cider shortly before kick off  :-[
Really? Isn't that the gig where people loudly shouted out 225 for an entire hour and it got a bit annoying?
And they didn't play it then but they did the next gig.   ;D  There isn't an emoticon good enough to to describe my laughter at this. 
 
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Master Ray on April 22, 2015, 10:35:23 PM
I only read the last page of this thread and the thing about it with NMA is that I don't really not like any songs, the one I'd sneak out during it being played is probably 225, but then I snuck out at the Roadmender during No Greater Love which I love, just cos I'd drunk too many pints of cider shortly before kick off  :-[
Really? Isn't that the gig where people loudly shouted out 225 for an entire hour and it got a bit annoying?
And they didn't play it then but they did the next gig.   ;D  There isn't an emoticon good enough to to describe my laughter at this.

Brilliant!  I remember Justin, at some gig or other some years back, hearing the crowds shouting for certain songs, saying something like 'You should have figured out, by now, after all these years, that if you shout out requests, we WON'T play them...'   ;D
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Tony S on April 23, 2015, 11:40:35 AM

Brilliant!  I remember Justin, at some gig or other some years back, hearing the crowds shouting for certain songs, saying something like 'You should have figured out, by now, after all these years, that if you shout out requests, we WON'T play them...'   ;D

I'm fairly sure at the Forum gig in London in 2013 that some guys were loudly shouting out for Vengeance, and Justin laughed at them and made some comment. Then they played it during an encore - after those guys had had to leave early !  ;D
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Guillaume on August 11, 2018, 07:03:04 PM
"Get me out", i never quite clicked with it although i love the thrash metal drumbeat an over all sentiment, its probally due to the fact that they have played it at every gig i've been to since 1991 at the expense of way better songs, sullivan often says that nma gig song selection is like a lottery but it ain't in this case, setlist fm has it as there most played song by some margin.

It's still NMA's most played song ever!:

https://www.setlist.fm/stats/new-model-army-3d609e7.html

And it's a good, catchy song IMO.

In fact there are very, very few NMA songs that i don't like too much...i like 95% or 98% of their songs :)


Whites of their eyes
Big blue
Paekakariki beach
Stranger
Refugee
Water
Prayer flags
God save me
Still here
If you can't save me
Nothing dies easy
La push
bad harvest
stormclouds
part the waters
eyes get used to the darkness

are songs that i use to skip when i listen to NMA's albums, though..




These are flat out awful songs:

"Sex (The Black Angel)" -- I forgive them this one, very early in their career

"Ballad" -- acoustic guitar + vocals + harmonica = boring

"I Love The World" -- how many times can you say "I love the world" in one song? Answer: too f***ing many.

"Believe It" -- not terrible, just a lazy effort
"Understand U" --not terrible, just a lazy effort

"Aimless Desire" -- boy, is this song bad
"Lullaby" - endless garbage. I put this song on Tuesday and it is still playing

"Someone Like Jesus" -- bad, hilariously bad Nick Cave immitation

I like all these songs!
Especially "I love the world", "SOmeone like Jesus" and "Ballad"...pure gems!
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: lupus225 on August 13, 2018, 04:20:45 PM
Paekakariki beach
Sunrise
Freedom 1991
Arm yourselves and run
Still here
Wanting
Song for the men of England
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: ChrisC on August 21, 2018, 11:37:47 PM
Wow you don't like 'Eyes Get Used to the Darkness'? Think that and Drifts are the two best tracks on that album. Burn the Castle is a bit of a clunker tho.

"Get me out", i never quite clicked with it although i love the thrash metal drumbeat an over all sentiment, its probally due to the fact that they have played it at every gig i've been to since 1991 at the expense of way better songs, sullivan often says that nma gig song selection is like a lottery but it ain't in this case, setlist fm has it as there most played song by some margin.

It's still NMA's most played song ever!:

https://www.setlist.fm/stats/new-model-army-3d609e7.html

And it's a good, catchy song IMO.

In fact there are very, very few NMA songs that i don't like too much...i like 95% or 98% of their songs :)


Whites of their eyes
Big blue
Paekakariki beach
Stranger
Refugee
Water
Prayer flags
God save me
Still here
If you can't save me
Nothing dies easy
La push
bad harvest
stormclouds
part the waters
eyes get used to the darkness

are songs that i use to skip when i listen to NMA's albums, though..




These are flat out awful songs:

"Sex (The Black Angel)" -- I forgive them this one, very early in their career

"Ballad" -- acoustic guitar + vocals + harmonica = boring

"I Love The World" -- how many times can you say "I love the world" in one song? Answer: too f***ing many.

"Believe It" -- not terrible, just a lazy effort
"Understand U" --not terrible, just a lazy effort

"Aimless Desire" -- boy, is this song bad
"Lullaby" - endless garbage. I put this song on Tuesday and it is still playing

"Someone Like Jesus" -- bad, hilariously bad Nick Cave immitation

I like all these songs!
Especially "I love the world", "SOmeone like Jesus" and "Ballad"...pure gems!
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Guillaume on August 22, 2018, 08:56:36 AM
Wow you don't like 'Eyes Get Used to the Darkness'? Think that and Drifts are the two best tracks on that album. Burn the Castle is a bit of a clunker tho.

I quite like "Drifts" and to a lesser extent "Burn the castle" but i'm a bit indifferent towards "EGUTTD" indeed and overall, despite some good moments, i think that "Winter" is probably the NMA album i like the least..
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Wessexy Witch on August 22, 2018, 08:58:30 AM
Echo November ....... can Foxtrot Oscar in my opinion  ;) :)
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: cthulhu on August 22, 2018, 02:03:45 PM
to me it's that soccer song, because i'm not into soccer and it gives me nothing. heard it once.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: ChrisC on September 09, 2018, 11:37:25 PM
Wow you don't like 'Eyes Get Used to the Darkness'? Think that and Drifts are the two best tracks on that album. Burn the Castle is a bit of a clunker tho.

I quite like "Drifts" and to a lesser extent "Burn the castle" but i'm a bit indifferent towards "EGUTTD" indeed and overall, despite some good moments, i think that "Winter" is probably the NMA album i like the least..


I’m still working my way through the back catalogue, got as far as Eight which, IMO, is a truly awful album.  Only half decent track is Leeds Road 3am!
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: nickg on September 12, 2018, 09:57:50 AM
Hi Chris. I've heard described as lots of things, but never as "a truly awful album". Each to their own of course but personally I love that album and a number of those songs are still in the live set now.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Ghosttrain on September 12, 2018, 10:35:49 AM
Each to their own as you rightly say,i think Eight is a wonderful album,plus great cover (as previously stated in another thread).......
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Guillaume on September 12, 2018, 06:37:46 PM
I really like "Eight" too..."Orange tree roads", "Someone like Jesus", "You weren't there", "Leeds road 3AM", "Snelsmore wood"...wonderful, wonderful songs. It was Justin going back to the kind of simple, effective, catchy melodies and chorus, after the more unfocussed, experimental "Strange brotherhood" album.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Master Ray on September 12, 2018, 07:06:54 PM

'Eight' was hugely under-regarded by myself (see also 'Carnival') for a long time, not quite why these days, but I've come to regard both those albums in a whole new light recently.  As I think I said before, I was into so many different bands in so many different genres during the 90's I think they just got a bit 'lost in the rush' if that makes any sense.

I regard 'Eight' very highly nowadays and when NMA chose to open up with 'R 'n' R' at a few gigs a while back, I was properly bouncing!  That song should return to the set on a far more regular basis!
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: ManxPat on October 26, 2018, 09:11:14 PM
Soz for the fence-sitting but I have to say almost every song I didn't initially love has grown on me over the years. Sure I'd choose to hear some over others but can't really think of one I outright dislike....Someone mentioned thinking Lullaby was a joke or similar but for me its deeply connected to a part of my life and I love it, so its all subjective really. Swings n roundabouts eh...or apples n oranges or something?
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: pjevac on November 05, 2018, 08:29:26 PM
Chinese Whispers
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Nacho on December 18, 2018, 10:27:28 AM
Qasar el Nil Bridge
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Johnz on December 31, 2018, 07:15:57 AM
Qasar el Nil Bridge

Probably one my favourite songs from BDAW. Just goes to show.
Title: an NMA track you REALLY don't like? For me, not a single one yet, thank 'GOD'.
Post by: 8 on January 01, 2019, 03:04:59 PM
There isn't an NMA song that I do not like, thus far.  I'll take in anyone of 'em songs... straight-up, LOUD & OFTEN please.  8)  What really does it for me, though, is the voice, in particular that voice... HIS voice.  It's the first thing I ever loved about the band, the music.  (somewhat embarrassed soft lol), I went years without even knowing who or what the singer even looked like!  Only ever saw the 'White Coats' video once by chance, where one cannot decipher who the mysterious man was that owned it, that voice.

It wasn't until my first time viewing NMA's video for '51st State', that I got hooked for better or worse.  It was that extreme close-up scene where he's in the truck, and parted those gorgeous, big, plump, soft, kissable lips, opened up his mouth... and that was it, I was a goner.  I was like OMG!  'Who are you?  Who?  Who?  Who?  Who?'  Who is this gorgeous being!  lol, and it didn't help any that he rocked a rather sublime strapping mean physique either, ahhh Christ!  Those fcukin' leather clad days.  lol, could not believe such beauty really and truly existed?  I was rendered speechless, gobsmacked, dumbfounded, to say the least!   ;) :P 8) :D  Fcuk vampires, I thought, for they've got nothin' on this guy.. nothing on HIM... ohhh, what a HYMmmN.  Still oozes it in spades, as far as I'm concerned.  S-P-A-D-E-S!! !   'Yea-ahhh, baby'...  As that notorious international man of mystery, Mr. Austin Powers would quite often exclaim.

I much preferred the way things naturally took place, though... flourished, grew.  For it worked out just like some gorgeous, breathless, wild and crazy dream.  What can I say, but that I am completely taken in by it, utterly gobsmacked and forever drawn to it.  I don't know what 'GOD' put in there when he built the man, or if he gets it from his mum or from his dad, but fcukin' hell did the LORD almighty know what HE ('GOD') was doing or what!!  It's the bees knees, as they say over them waters, over there.   ::)

Getting somewhat back on topic.  There has always be just one line, in one single song, that always made me feel unsettled, makes me feel uneasy, worried even - especially because he still sings it to this day.  I'm not going to name it, but whomever really cares, I will tell you this... the song is from the very first full length recording NMA ever released, and, he sings it in the first person.  Can't help but think to myself 'How could someone, so young, sing words so' alarming, devastating, sad, terrifying?   It's actually quite heartbreaking to hear him utter those few words, that one line.  Often makes me stop and wonder what was going through his mind the day he penned it, as well as, what's still going on internally, that he feels propelled to sing it even as an older, mature man - every now and then.  :'(

And there you have it, well... sort of, anyhow.   xOx  Ooo
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Master Ray on January 01, 2019, 08:47:59 PM
'How could someone, so young, sing words so' alarming, devastating, sad, terrifying?   It's actually quite heartbreaking to hear him utter those few words, that one line.  Often makes me stop and wonder what was going through his mind the day he penned it, as well as, what's still going on internally, that he feels propelled to sing it even as an older, mature man - every now and then.  :'(

Come on, pal, name the lyric so we can help to justify, deny or understand the concept.  I'm sure Justin would understand the idea of people getting to grips with something that someone finds offensive.   ???
Title: Woo-hoo, lucky you! Here's another clue, the song is on the first half of the LP
Post by: 8 on January 05, 2019, 04:40:11 AM
I'm sure Justin would understand the idea of people getting to grips with something that someone finds offensive.   ???

Actually, the man has never written anything - thus far - that has offended me, in any way, shape or form.  Ever.   :)

Come on, pal, name the lyric so we can help to justify, deny or understand the concept.

It's off the "Vengeance" album release, but is not the title track.  Ok, it should be really easy now.  Humour me Master Ray (or anyone else here who has time on their hands / cares to engage)… how about you try finding the song / line?  Here's the track listing for that album...

1.  Christian Militia   (Sullivan, Morrow)
2.  Notice Me   (Sullivan, Morrow)
3.  Smalltown England   (Sullivan, Morrow)
4.  A Liberal Education   (Sullivan, Morrow)
5.  Vengeance   (Sullivan)
6.  Sex  (The Black Angel)   (Sullivan, Morrow, Heaton)
7.  Running In The Rain   (Sullivan)
8.  Spirit of the Falklands   (Sullivan, Morrow)
Title: Re: Woo-hoo, lucky you! Here's another clue, the song is on the first half of the LP
Post by: ldopas on January 05, 2019, 12:03:48 PM
I'm sure Justin would understand the idea of people getting to grips with something that someone finds offensive.   ???

Actually, the man has never written anything - thus far - that has offended me, in any way, shape or form.  Ever.   :)

Come on, pal, name the lyric so we can help to justify, deny or understand the concept.

It's off the "Vengeance" album release, but is not the title track.  Ok, it should be really easy now.  Humour me Master Ray (or anyone else here who has time on their hands / cares to engage)… how about you try finding the song / line?  Here's the track listing for that album...

1.  Christian Militia   (Sullivan, Morrow)
2.  Notice Me   (Sullivan, Morrow)
3.  Smalltown England   (Sullivan, Morrow)
4.  A Liberal Education   (Sullivan, Morrow)
5.  Vengeance   (Sullivan)
6.  Sex  (The Black Angel)   (Sullivan, Morrow, Heaton)
7.  Running In The Rain   (Sullivan)
8.  Spirit of the Falklands   (Sullivan, Morrow)

I'll take first go!

Is it the line; "I love you, but I still wish you were dead" from Running In The Rain?
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: dilla on January 05, 2019, 01:46:10 PM
Possibly..."I'll kill myself while you are watching" from Notice Me
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: 8 on January 05, 2019, 02:05:42 PM
STOP!  We have a winner...
Title: Well done gentlemen... well done! :D
Post by: 8 on January 05, 2019, 02:45:37 PM
I'll take first go!   Is it the line;  "I love you, but I still wish you were dead"  from  Running In The Rain?

Oooo, you nailed the subject matter being that of Death, there ldopas… but neither the correct song / specific line.  Close,  :-\  but no cigar I'm afraid. 
Thanks ever so much for participating.  Love your wit and humour!  And it's genuinely a treat / nice to finally get to exchange a word or two with you, ldopas.  Thank you, Sir!  :)

And now, to the gentleman who had his eyes peeled (as in had them wide open - just in case any folks of foreign tongues don't comprehend the term peeled) and is very likely the owner of an open, big genuine heart himself...
dilla...

Possibly..."I'll kill myself while you are watching" from Notice Me

dilla,  8)  how the 'ell did you manage to nail both the song and the line?  Was it the clues I gave OR, might that line affect you quite emotionally, deeply, too  :-[ ... as it does, me? 
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: dilla on January 06, 2019, 04:12:22 AM
Hi 8,
Definately the clues you gave.When Vengeance came out,Notice Me was my favourite track due to Stuarts amazing bass playing.Lyrically,although Justin sings in the " first person",to me it was obvious he's not singing about himself.I always used to compare the song lyrically to "Kill" by Albertos Y Los Trios Paranoias,even though I knew the NMA song was serious and Albertos were a comedy/pisstake act.
Later Justin often sings in the first person.eg One of the chosen.He has that incredible ability to put himself into the mind of the subject person which makes the song seem more alive than if the song was written in the "third person"
As for a song by NMA that I don't really like?? Possibly Big Blue,(but the solo version in Preston a couple of years ago was brilliant) :)
Title: Our winner beautifully shares a few thoughts...
Post by: 8 on January 06, 2019, 01:56:35 PM
Definitely the clues you gave.  When Vengeance came out,  "Notice Me" was my favourite track due to Stuarts amazing bass playing.

Oddly, for me, even though "Notice Me" contains the one line that worries me most,  It wasn't the song that shocked and shook the daylight out of me!   Ahhh, but I've sort of left that for/in another thread I started a while back.   ;)

Lyrically, although Justin sings in the "first person", to me it was obvious he's not singing about himself.  I always used to compare the song lyrically to   "Kill"  by  Albertos  Y  Los  Trios  Paranoias (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7PQxA7ffAo), even though I knew the NMA song was serious and Albertos were a comedy/pisstake act.

Had to go look them up, I've never heard of neither the band nor song before.  freaked out nervous lol, I'm not sure what the hell I've just seen (just before the minute mark in that clip), but... Yikes!   :o

Later Justin often sings in the first person. eg  "One of the Chosen".  He has that incredible ability to put himself into the mind of the subject person which makes the song seem more alive than if the song was written in the "third person".

I love the way you put it... alive.  The man has a gift a serious gift, and boy.. does he know how to work it, use it!   8)

As for a song by NMA that I don't really like??  Possibly  "Big Blue", (but the solo version in Preston a couple of years ago was brilliant) :)
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpSVQJuBkq4)

OMG!  dilla, you left a comment on that youtube clip as well.  ACE!!   :D   Some of NMA's songs are better, sweeter, stripped - as in - played on a single guitar (acoustic or electric) doesn't matter, as well as when accompanied by harmonica (when possible).  I love both versions, but find the solo version SO much more soulful, enchanting, mesmerising.  :)

Nice chat, great post, dilla... and heartfelt thanks for participaing, playing!  :)
Title: Re: Well done gentlemen... well done! :D
Post by: ldopas on January 11, 2019, 06:41:16 PM
I'll take first go!   Is it the line;  "I love you, but I still wish you were dead"  from  Running In The Rain?

Oooo, you nailed the subject matter being that of Death, there ldopas… but neither the correct song / specific line.  Close,  :-\  but no cigar I'm afraid. 
Thanks ever so much for participating.  Love your wit and humour!  And it's genuinely a treat / nice to finally get to exchange a word or two with you, ldopas.  Thank you, Sir!  :)

And now, to the gentleman who had his eyes peeled (as in had them wide open - just in case any folks of foreign tongues don't comprehend the term peeled) and is very likely the owner of an open, big genuine heart himself...

Thanks you for the complement. Likewise!

I don't need a cigar for winning btw, I've never smoked tobacco in my life. But a bottle of bubbly would go down very well!  8)
Title: Re: an NMA track you REALLY don't like? For me, not a single one yet, thank 'GOD'.
Post by: Whirlwind on January 11, 2019, 10:54:39 PM
... There has always be just one line, in one single song, that always made me feel unsettled, makes me feel uneasy, worried even -
."I'll kill myself while you are watching" from Notice Me
8, I don't want to be rude but you clearly have no understanding of that line.
Title: Re: an NMA track you REALLY don't like? For me, not a single one yet, thank 'GOD'.
Post by: ldopas on January 12, 2019, 01:08:19 PM
... There has always be just one line, in one single song, that always made me feel unsettled, makes me feel uneasy, worried even -
."I'll kill myself while you are watching" from Notice Me
8, I don't want to be rude but you clearly have no understanding of that line.

Why are you trying to stoke up controversy? That was rude.

How do you know they don't understand what it means. that was not the question; to explain its meaning. They were saying they don't like that line, it affects them. In actuality they probably completely understand it and that is what fires something up in them to not like it, perhaps it pertains to their experience.
Title: Re: an NMA track you REALLY don't like? For me, not a single one yet, thank 'GOD'.
Post by: Whirlwind on January 12, 2019, 03:36:58 PM
In actuality they probably completely understand it
.
No, in actuality they probably completely misunderstand it.
Title: Seems I'm not understanding the line that worries me most, from "Notice Me"...
Post by: 8 on January 15, 2019, 06:11:24 AM
"I'll kill myself while you are watching"   from   Notice Me

8, I don't want to be rude but you clearly have no understanding of that line.

Why are you trying to stoke up controversy?  That was rude.  How do you know they don't understand what it means. that was not the question; to explain its meaning. They were saying they don't like that line, it affects them.  In actuality they probably completely understand it and that is what fires something up in them to not like it, perhaps it pertains to their experience.

Wow, I am simultaneously deeply moved and at a loss for words.  A genuinely kind, good person - gentleman - in you... Thank you SO much for this, ldopas.  :)


"I'll kill myself while you are watching" from Notice Me
8, I don't want to be rude but you clearly have no understanding of that line.

Ok, floor's yours Mark, explain the line to me then... please.  It's one of the lines that has crushed me ever since first hearing it, in a tearful, worrisome, sad and helpless, kind of way.  So an explanation, from anyone really, would be genuinely appreciated, welcomed.
Title: Re: Seems I'm not understanding the line that worries me most, from "Notice Me"...
Post by: Whirlwind on January 15, 2019, 02:30:04 PM

Ok, floor's yours Mark, explain the line to me then... please.  It's one of the lines that has crushed me ever since first hearing it, in a tearful, worrisome, sad and helpless, kind of way.  So an explanation, from anyone really, would be genuinely appreciated, welcomed.
.
I would actually explain the line to you and perhaps ease your mind a bit, but you ask Mark to do it. You play silly internet games calling me someone I am not (as if I need some other account to be who I am. Do I really come across as someone who is afraid to be who I am?). No, you asked Mark to explain the line. So let Mark do it.
Title: Re: Seems I'm not understanding the line that worries me most, from "Notice Me"...
Post by: 8 on January 15, 2019, 04:03:44 PM
I would actually explain the line to you and perhaps ease your mind a bit, but you ask Mark to do it.  You play silly internet games calling me someone I am not (as if I need some other account to be who I am.  Do I really come across as someone who is afraid to be who I am?).  No, you asked Mark to explain the line.  So let Mark do it.

lol.  ;)  Ok, allow me to correct myself then...  The floor's yours Whirlwind, please explain the line to me.  It's one of the lines that has crushed me ever since first hearing it, in a tearful, worrisome, sad and helpless, kind of way.  So an explanation, from anyone really, would be genuinely appreciated, welcomed.
Title: Re: Seems I'm not understanding the line that worries me most, from "Notice Me"...
Post by: ldopas on January 15, 2019, 04:12:34 PM

Ok, floor's yours Mark, explain the line to me then... please.  It's one of the lines that has crushed me ever since first hearing it, in a tearful, worrisome, sad and helpless, kind of way.  So an explanation, from anyone really, would be genuinely appreciated, welcomed.
.
I would actually explain the line to you and perhaps ease your mind a bit, but you ask Mark to do it. You play silly internet games calling me someone I am not (as if I need some other account to be who I am. Do I really come across as someone who is afraid to be who I am?). No, you asked Mark to explain the line. So let Mark do it.

Again as I said before. Why are you so reactionary to everything that people say. Its like you get off trying to stir things up, start arguments. I say this as someone who has done that in the past on this board. And I've been posting on this board and earlier iterations of it for 15 years plus.

Why do you get off doing it?
Title: Re: Seems I'm not understanding the line that worries me most, from "Notice Me"...
Post by: Whirlwind on January 15, 2019, 05:27:41 PM
….The floor's yours Whirlwind, please explain the line to me.

"Or I'll kill myself while you are watching" is the line in question.

Has to be looked at in context of the whole song. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you may be seeing it as a line about suicide. It really isn't.
 
I'll take any drug in the whole damn world if you'll only notice me
Mainline poisons by the score - please will you notice me
I'll break any law, hurt anybody - for God's sake notice me
Cut my wrists and slash my face for Christ's sake notice me
I'll drink anybody into the ground if you'll only notice me
I'll kick the teeth out of anyone here - come on and notice me
I'll wear the clothes and cut my hair - please will you notice me
I'll be a pop star and I'll stand on stage - for God's sake notice me

Ch:
Who told him that it mattered?
Who told him that anyone cared?
He's got an overgrown sense of his own importance
No one's really bothered around here
He was such a quiet boy, never any trouble before . . .

I'll get a big car and drive like a maniac - please notice me
I'll make a lot of money and tread on you if you'll only notice me
I'll tell you any lies you want to hear - for God's sake notice me
Or I'll kill myself while you are watching


The song is simply about an immature lad who has no idea how to fit in. He wants to be noticed, which he believes will make him significant, part of the group, whatever. "He's got an overgrown sense of his own importance" is how the others feel about him. This lad threatens to do everything in a big way: get a big car and drive like a maniac, drink anybody into the ground, beat up people, make a lot of money...anything big to be noticed. And he ultimately goes to the most stupid way to be noticed -- suicide.

He sees suicide as "look at me." He's not depressed, he's not sad, he's just an idiotic immature lad who has no idea what it takes to be accepted. To him suicide is no different than having a lot of money, driving a big car. Just a way of being noticed.

You may be looking too deeply into the kill myself line. It really is no different than the wearing clothes, cut my hair, break any law, be a pop star lines. Kid just wants to be noticed. Ignored so he thinks these are the ways to be noted.

Song and that line is not about suicide. Just about a mixed up kid who doesn't understand that a friendly smile, a kind gesture, a good wit (some here lack that),  hitting a home run in a game, acing a geometry test, helping at a soup kitchen...those are the ways to be noticed. The dope in the song is clueless to that.


I had a friend in high school, Don, who was exactly like the kid in "Notice Me." We'd walk into 7/11 and Don would just punch a guy who was walking out the door right in the face. He would drive like a maniac, he would eat slugs (ate a toilet cake once...you know those things in the urinals to freshen up the urinal), challenge anybody to a drinking contest, bent over and ran head first into a gas pump to break the glass...We knew why Don would do that stuff...he just wanted to be noticed. He was messed up in that he couldn't believe people would be friends with him unless he did crazy things. (Arm chair psychiatry here: Don did have an older brother who was an athletic God around town. We all knew that's why Don did his crazy stunts. Insecurity.)

If you are distressed over "suicide" in "Notice Me," don't be. The song has zero to do with a youth killing himself. About insecurity.
Title: Re: Seems I'm not understanding the line that worries me most, from "Notice Me"...
Post by: Whirlwind on January 15, 2019, 05:35:26 PM

Again as I said before. Why are you so reactionary to everything that people say.

Go look up the fable about the scorpion and the frog. It will explain to you a lot about New Yorkers.
 It's our nature!

(http://futurebooks.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/978-93-5102-490-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Seems I'm not understanding the line that worries me most, from "Notice Me"...
Post by: 8 on January 15, 2019, 11:14:59 PM
Quote from: Whirlwind link=topic=8699.msg175231#msg175231date=1547576861
"Or I'll kill myself while you are watching" is the line in question.  Has to be looked at in context of the whole song.  I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you may be seeing it as a line about suicide.  It really isn't.

You are correct in your assumption, I am seeing it as a line about suicide.  How can one not?  It's such a strong declaration / statement, that I cannot help but to take it, in such a manner.   :-[

I'll take any drug in the whole damn world if you'll only notice me
Mainline poisons by the score - please will you notice me
I'll break any law, hurt anybody - for God's sake notice me
Cut my wrists and slash my face for Christ's sake notice me
I'll drink anybody into the ground if you'll only notice me
I'll kick the teeth out of anyone here - come on and notice me
I'll wear the clothes and cut my hair - please will you notice me
I'll be a pop star and I'll stand on stage - for God's sake notice me

Ch:
Who told him that it mattered?
Who told him that anyone cared?
He's got an overgrown sense of his own importance
No one's really bothered around here
He was such a quiet boy, never any trouble before . . .

I'll get a big car and drive like a maniac - please notice me
I'll make a lot of money and tread on you if you'll only notice me
I'll tell you any lies you want to hear - for God's sake notice me
Or I'll kill myself while you are watching


The song is simply about an immature lad who has no idea how to fit in.

I don't know, Whirlwind, but "immature" seems a bit harsh.  I would say, young and inexperienced, perhaps.  Maybe the boy or young man (in the song) might've been a victim of rejection, neglect / abandonment, misguidance, frustration, hopelessness, desperation... all things of which would definitely cause anyone, be they male or female, to become highly insecure.   :-[

He wants to be noticed, which he believes will make him significant, part of the group, whatever.  "He's got an overgrown sense of his own importance" is how the others feel about him.  This lad threatens to do everything in a big way: get a big car and drive like a maniac, drink anybody into the ground, beat up people, make a lot of money...anything big to be noticed.  And he ultimately goes to the most stupid way to be noticed -- suicide.

I don't know about that either, circumstances must've been extremely negative, dark, hopeless, desperate, for the boy / young man in the song to contemplate suicide... even if under the guise of getting attention / being noticed.  Perhaps he's had all that he can take, stomach, handle.  The boy / young man is screaming out.  It's an emotional cry out for help, maybe even love, and acceptance...   :-\   well, it very much seems so to me, at any rate.

He sees suicide as "look at me."  He's not depressed, he's not sad, he's just an idiotic immature lad who has no idea what it takes to be accepted.  To him suicide is no different than having a lot of money, driving a big car.  Just a way of being noticed.

Actually, I think on some seriously deep level, the boy / young man in the song might very well be heavily depressed.  One would have to be, to cry out in such a way.   :'(

You may be looking too deeply into the kill myself line.  It really is no different than the wearing clothes, cut my hair, break any law, be a pop star lines.  Kid just wants to be noticed.  Ignored so he thinks these are the ways to be noted.

No, I disagree with you here, Whirlwind.  The boy / young man in the song is having a gut, emotional reaction to his predicament, and that's how he's manifesting it, via such heavy words / statements.  The boy / young man seems to be in serious turmoil, crying out, reaching out... to anyone, anywhere.    :'(

Song and that line is not about suicide.  Just about a mixed up kid who doesn't understand that a friendly smile, a kind gesture, a good wit (some here lack that), hitting a home run in a game, acing a geometry test, helping at a soup kitchen...those are the ways to be noticed.  The dope in the song is clueless to that.

Hmmm, I wouldn't call the kid / young man in the song a "dope" or even clueless.  I'd say he's lost and is seeking some sort of help,  :-\  relief... maybe even some form of love  (no, not sexual in kind).

I had a friend in high school, Don, who was exactly like the kid in "Notice Me."  We'd walk into 7/11 and Don would just punch a guy who was walking out the door right in the face.  He would drive like a maniac, he would eat slugs (ate a toilet cake once...you know those things in the urinals to freshen up the urinal), challenge anybody to a drinking contest, bent over and ran head first into a gas pump to break the glass...We knew why Don would do that stuff...he just wanted to be noticed.  He was messed up in that he couldn't believe people would be friends with him unless he did crazy things.  (Arm chair psychiatry here:  Don did have an older brother who was an athletic God around town.  We all knew that's why Don did his crazy stunts.  Insecurity.)

Well, you know what they say... bullies bully because they themselves are being bullied OR are around bullies.   :-\   But what do I know.

If you are distressed over "suicide" in "Notice Me," don't be.  The song has zero to do with a youth killing himself.  About insecurity.

Nothing has changed unfortunately, I still am distressed about the song, by that line especially.  I too, see the song as being about insecurity, but an insecurity that has reached its boiling point, for lack of a better term / phrase.   :-[
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Whirlwind on January 16, 2019, 12:16:53 AM
I'll take two of your points:

"desperate, for the boy / young man in the song to contemplate suicide..."

He is not contemplating suicide. Nothing in the song indicates that. When he says "I'll kill myself while you are watching" it is just another in a long line of attention grabbing behavior. Drive like a maniac, wear clothes, cut my hair, make lots of money, break any law, become a pop star....those are all just a long laundry list of attention getting ploys. Those are the things that he believes would get others to notice him. The suicide is just as stupid a suggestion as "be a pop star and stand on the stage." I ask you, do you honestly think he is contemplating being a pop star? Exactly how does one become a pop star? Is there really a college degree that one earns and then you become a pop star? See my point? It's all just a  stupid fantasy, for lack of a better word, for this guy. Become a pop star, suicide...these are just things in his mind that he thinks will make people notice him. It's not real. Tell me how real are the prospects of becoming a pop star? And the other things - drink anybody into the ground, get a big car, make lots of money... - are all fantasy, too.


"The boy / young man seems to be in serious turmoil,.... "

No, he's not. He's merely a kid who wants to fit in. Welcome to the club. Every human on Earth goes through that. Dude, there are songs out there that do express feelings of suicide or destructive behavior (Pearl Jam's "Jeremy," for instance). If you listen to them and then listen to "Notice Me" you'd see the New Model Army song is not a song about suicide.
Title: Trying to understand the lyric / line, "I'll kill myself while you are watching"
Post by: 8 on January 16, 2019, 01:07:26 AM
I'll take two of your points:

"desperate, for the boy / young man in the song to contemplate suicide..."

He is not contemplating suicide.  Nothing in the song indicates that.  When he says "I'll kill myself while you are watching" it is just another in a long line of attention grabbing behavior.  Drive like a maniac, wear clothes, cut my hair, make lots of money, break any law, become a pop star....those are all just a long laundry list of attention getting ploys.  Those are the things that he believes would get others to notice him.  The suicide is just as stupid a suggestion as "be a pop star and stand on the stage."  I ask you, do you honestly think he is contemplating being a pop star?  Exactly how does one become a pop star?  Is there really a college degree that one earns and then you become a pop star?  See my point?  It's all just a  stupid fantasy, for lack of a better word, for this guy.  Become a pop star, suicide...these are just things in his mind that he thinks will make people notice him.  It's not real.  Tell me how real are the prospects of becoming a pop star?  And the other things - drink anybody into the ground, get a big car, make lots of money... - are all fantasy, too.

Yeah, but the suicide line just isn't bullshit or fake to me.  melancholy lost lol, I'm getting SO much more confused, now.   :-[  What do the rest of you floating here think and feel about the line  :(  song  "Notice Me"?  Anyone know whether Mr. Sullivan has ever spoken about this particular song, in an interview, either in print   :-\  or on film?  Care to comment, help me understand? 

"The boy / young man seems to be in serious turmoil,.... "

No, he's not.  He's merely a kid who wants to fit in.  Welcome to the club.  Every human on Earth goes through that.  Dude, there are songs out there that do express feelings of suicide or destructive behavior (Pearl Jam's "Jeremy," for instance).  If you listen to them and then listen to "Notice Me" you'd see the New Model Army song is not a song about suicide.

NMA's  "Notice Me"  may not be about suicide, but the "I'll kill myself while you are watching" line, if anything, stands out like no other to me.  Why does Mr. Sullivan close the song with that line, though?  Why?  What does it mean?  And, what about the  "he was such a quiet boy, he was never any trouble before"  line?  Something obviously must've changed in the boy / young man (in the song) to react in such a desperate way, make such a declaration... no?   ???
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Whirlwind on January 16, 2019, 01:39:17 AM
Quote
"but the suicide line just isn't bullshit or fake to me."

But the lines "be a pop star and stand on the stage," "make a lot of money," are bullshit or fake to you. Do you see what you are doing? You are cherry picking one line rather than put it into the context of all the lines. ALL THE LINES ARE BULLSHIT! Do you really think he is going to beat up everybody? Do you really think he is going to be a pop star? But you pick one line and say that's the true one.

Once again, all the lines are just in his mind what he thinks would get people to notice him. How can he actually do half of them? How can he kick the teeth out of everybody? How can he be a pop star? He can't and won't. Same goes for the suicide line. All the lines are bullshit.

 I will say this. If in the song the main character actually did all the crazy behavior, then that final line about suicide would be a scary line. "I take any drug," "I break any law"... All his destructive behavior is reaching the final stage....suicide. But the song uses "I'll" --  I will --  a future tense. None of it is happening. "I'll beat up everybody," "I'll be a pop star"... Wishful thinking. It's all bullshit.
Title: Lost in translation...
Post by: 8 on January 16, 2019, 02:48:34 AM
"but the suicide line just isn't bullshit or fake to me."
But the lines "be a pop star and stand on the stage,"  "make a lot of money," are bullshit or fake to you. 

I neither said nor implied that, Whirlwind.


Do you see what you are doing?  You are cherry picking one line rather than put it into the context of all the lines.

Yes, I am cherry picking, as you put it.  As I mentioned from the get go, the  "I'll kill myself while you are watching" line is THE only line that has ever made me feel unsettled, uneasy, most worried.


ALL THE LINES ARE BULLSHIT!  Do you really think he is going to beat up everybody?  Do you really think he is going to be a pop star?  But you pick one line and say that's the true one.

NONE of the lines are bullshit.  What I meant was that the  "I'll kill myself while you are watching"  line seems the most real of all of them.  I can't articulate it any better than that, properly... sorry.


Once again, all the lines are just in his mind what he thinks would get people to notice him.  How can he actually do half of them?  How can he kick the teeth out of everybody?  How can he be a pop star?  He can't and won't.  Same goes for the suicide line.  All the lines are bullshit.

How can you be so sure of this?  What in the song tells you this?  You, like me, are just making an educated guess, assumption of sorts.  None of us will ever truly know, unless Mr. Sullivan officially addresses the line in question / the song, at some point down the road.


I will say this.  If in the song the main character actually did all the crazy behavior, then that final line about suicide would be a scary line. "I take any drug," "I break any law"... All his destructive behavior is reaching the final stage....suicide.

That's where I'm coming from, how I'm interpreting it.  It certainly is a very scary song, terrifying line, when you look at it from this angle. 


But the song uses "I'll" --  I will --  a future tense.  None of it is happening.  "I'll beat up everybody,"  "I'll be a pop star"... Wishful thinking.  It's all bullshit.

I suppose the "I'll" thing you're on about could be true.  But we don't really know the boy / young man in the song do we?  We are just painted a bleak picture of the boy / young man, by Justin.  However, if we pay closer attention to how and the way in which the song is actually delivered unto us - both in musical and vocal terms - then, we get a truer sense of what the boy / young man's mindset, turmoil, despair, inner pain really is like... get a clearer picture of the boy / young man's character, inner demons, workings, what-have-you.
Title: Re: Trying to understand the lyric / line, "I'll kill myself while you are watching"
Post by: Stephanie on January 16, 2019, 12:55:50 PM
Yeah, but the suicide line just isn't bullshit or fake to me.  melancholy lost lol, I'm getting SO much more confused, now.   :-[  What do the rest of you floating here think and feel about the line  :(  song  "Notice Me"?  Anyone know whether Mr. Sullivan has ever spoken about this particular song, in an interview, either in print   :-\  or on film?  Care to comment, help me understand? 
I don't think I can help you to understand...but the thing is - I feel I don't have a right to even try.
The way I see it, what makes lyrics really good is that they speak to different people in different ways. We are all different, have had different experiences in our respective lives.
Regardless of what the writer of any given song might have had in mind when writing it (well, sometimes it's plain obvious, but not always), for one reason or another they might mean something completely different to me. And then something else entirely for someone else. And none of that is wrong or bad. It's what makes lyrics great, the fact that they touch people, reach them, ring true for them.
I have even had it happen that one and the same song meant something else for me when I was young than it does now.
And that is ok.

As far as this specific song is concerned, I have always interpreted it as some young, probably very insecure person being obsessively in love with someone (as you often are when you are still young)- and getting all worked up by their feelings not being requited (is that the correct term to use in this context?). So this person is being all dramatic, imagining what they would do to get the object of their desire to finally notice them.
Dunno, I think we have all been there to a degree, haven't we?  ;)
BUT, depending on how insecure someone is, and depending on whether or not there are more mature, grounded people in that person's life, it is easy to see how such feelings/ways of thinking can get out of hand and indeed become more serious.

Until I had read your posts it has never ocurred to me to consider that the song might be about someone who has already gone a step further - into morbid obsession, or indeed even depression - but I see how, depending on maybe personal experiences, this is a very possible way of looking at it.
And yes, I can also see how this can make you feel very sad and uncomfortable.

I don't feel that way about this song - but if you do this is perfectly legitimate, whyever wouldn't it be?

And if our dear Whirlwind interprets the song in yet another way - excellent.  8)

I don't recall reading about Justin Sullivan saying anything about this song, sorry.

But I think it's perfectly fine to interpret songs in your own way...and it can be really interesting to talk about the different ways in which people understand lyrics.
Title: Re: Trying to understand the lyric / line, "I'll kill myself while you are watching"
Post by: Whirlwind on January 16, 2019, 03:04:28 PM
...
I have always interpreted it as some young, probably very insecure person....this person is being all dramatic, imagining what they would do to get the object of their desire to finally notice them.
Dunno, I think we have all been there to a degree, haven't we?  ;)

Until I had read your posts it has never ocurred to me to consider that the song might be about someone who has already gone a step further - into morbid obsession, or indeed even depression -

Bingo.

8, as I said at the start, you are misunderstanding that lyric.

But, hey, you can interpret any song the way you want. If you want to think "Smalltown England" is about London, have at it.
Title: Re: Trying to understand the lyric / line, "I'll kill myself while you are watching"
Post by: Stephanie on January 17, 2019, 08:07:02 AM
8, as I said at the start, you are misunderstanding that lyric.
And that is just not true - none of us can know for sure what the exact meaning is, unless we get to ask Mr. Sullivan to explain what he had in mind when writing that song.

It is entirely possible that 8 has it just right and we do not - or maybe we all got it wrong - only what I said is that there can never really be a right or wrong with these things, that's the beauty of really good art.

But...it's fine, if you need to be right, so be it - as per my definition I can't and won't discuss this any further.  ::)
Title: Trying to understand the lyric / line, "I'll kill myself while you are watching"
Post by: 8 on January 17, 2019, 10:09:23 AM
Greetings Stephanie, :)

I don't think I can help you to understand...but the thing is – I feel I don't have a right to even try.

Hey, I'll take help in understanding the lyric / line from anyone, because that suicide line in the song has been dogging me ever since I first heard it, all those years ago.    :-[


I have even had it happen that one and the same song meant something else for me when I was young than it does now.  And that is ok.

OMG!  I thought it was just me that this happened to.  Every single one of NMA/JS songs has a whole new other light / side / meaning to me, ever since 2005, especially.  It's like there already was a lit light bulb on - in my mind, my mind's eye - but then some strange thing happened... out of nowhere, someone came into my life and made a small adjustment to that tiny lightbulb, where the light was glowing - in a normal fashion - and somehow made that tiny lightbulb produce a light far beyond and greater than its full capacity.  Now that light is SO vivid, it lights up, reaches, and kisses everything in its path.  I can't explain it any better than that, but it was something I was definitely not expecting to happen, neither was I ready for it, at the time.  It still amazes me, leaves me stunned that that was even fathomable, possible.  It was like magic... for lack of a better term.  Stunning, enlightening, exhilarating, beautiful, comforting.


As far as this specific song is concerned, I have always interpreted it as some young, probably very insecure person being obsessively in love with someone (as you often are when you are still young) - and getting all worked up by their feelings not being requited (is that the correct term to use in this context?).  So this person is being all dramatic, imagining what they would do to get the object of their desire to finally notice them.  Dunno, I think we have all been there to a degree, haven't we?

Wow.  It never even dawned / donned on me that the boy / young man in the song was trying to reach out to the object of his desires... a love.  lol, now I'm even more fcuked up because of these other two preceding lines in the song...

"I'll make a lot of money and tread on you if you'll only notice me
I'll tell you any lies you want to hear – for God's sake notice me
Or I'll kill myself while you are watching"
   

Hmmm,  "Notice Me"  is becoming even darker than I'd originally taken or thought it to be.   ???


BUT, depending on how insecure someone is, and depending on whether or not there are more mature, grounded people in that person's life, it is easy to see how such feelings/ways of thinking can get out of hand and indeed become more serious.

I completely believe this, as well.   :)


Until I had read your posts it has never occurred to me to consider that the song might be about someone who has already gone a step further – into morbid obsession, or indeed even depression – but I see how, depending on maybe personal experiences, this is a very possible way of looking at it.  And yes, I can also see how this can make you feel very sad and uncomfortable.  I don't feel that way about this song – but if you do this is perfectly legitimate, why ever wouldn't it be?  And if our dear Whirlwind interprets the song in yet another way – excellent.

Thank you Stephanie.  :)


I don't recall reading about Justin Sullivan saying anything about this song, sorry.

Maybe it's time someone asked Mr. Sullivan, then.  embarrassed soft lol, I'll just have to add it to my ongoing list, for when the next official NMA  Q & A opportunity surfaces.  ;)   Hopefully it will be on this site / forum, as I am not on facefook or fritter, nor will I ever be.  still embarrassed soft lol, I have way too many questions   :-\  and I haven't even seen  Matt Reid's  "Between Dog and Wolf"  NMA documentary yet!


The way I see it, what makes lyrics really good is that they speak to different people in different ways.  We are all different, have had different experiences in our respective lives.  Regardless of what the writer of any given song might have had in mind when writing it (well, sometimes it's plain obvious, but not always), for one reason or another they might mean something completely different to me. And then something else entirely for someone else.  And none of that is wrong or bad. It's what makes lyrics great, the fact that they touch people, reach them, ring true for them...  ...I think it's perfectly fine to interpret songs in your own way...and it can be really interesting to talk about the different ways in which people understand lyrics.

I absolutely love these kinds of talks.  I find them terribly fascinating.  Thank you ever so much for your participation, help and taking the time to post, Stephanie.  It has been a true pleasure.  :)

And, before you get your knickers / pants / undies  in a twist there, Whirlwind... same goes for you too, thank you.  ;)

Notice  Me
(Sullivan/Morrow)
1983

"I'll take any drug in the whole damn world if you'll only notice me
Mainline poisons by the score – please will you notice me
I'll break any law, hurt anybody – for God's sake notice me
Cut my wrists and slash my face for Christ's sake notice me
I'll drink anybody into the ground if you'll only notice me
I'll kick the teeth out of anyone here – come on and notice me
I'll wear the clothes and cut my hair – please will you notice me
I'll be a pop star and I'll stand on stage – for God's sake notice me

Chorus:
Who told him that it mattered?
Who told him that anyone cared?
He's got an overgrown sense of his own importance
No one's really bothered around here
He was such a quiet boy, never any trouble before . . .

I'll get a big car and drive like a maniac – please notice me
I'll make a lot of money and tread on you if you'll only notice me
I'll tell you any lies you want to hear – for God's sake notice me
Or I'll kill myself while you are watching"
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Stephanie on January 17, 2019, 11:53:48 AM
You are most welcome, 8 - thank YOU for bringing this up...I like it when someone makes me think about things I have sort of taken for granted. I mean, your question made me look at that song again and try to look at it from different perspectives.

There is that point about the young man/person in the song being obsessed with someone - that was my interpretation - but...come to think of it...could also be someone who feels invisible, is...I don't know...very normal, bit of a "grey mouse" and feels that nobody really cares about him, feels that they have no idea he even exists - and then has all these "daydreams" about how doing certain things would finally get people's attention - and he is so starved for it that he would literally consider anything just to get that attention.
Or it's a certain circle of people he wants to belong to and whose attention he wants.

And again the question is...is he just playing out all these scenarios in his mind and would never really do any of it? Or is he close to the point where he is going to actually start doing stuff, some of it indeed very dark?

Both approaches make me sad - because even if it's all just in his mind it may mean he will just continue to be invisible....and possibly totally miss the fact that there ARE people who care and who he doesn't have to impress with crazy actions.

For good order's sake: I keep writing "he" - that person could obviously also be a "she".  ;)
Title: Re: Trying to understand the lyric / line, "I'll kill myself while you are watching"
Post by: Whirlwind on January 17, 2019, 02:52:49 PM
...there can never really be a right or wrong with these things, that's the beauty of really good art.
.
That is so not true.

You are suggesting that an artist has no specific goal. Have you ever written a song? Let me educate you: people write a song because they want to express something. "Christian Militia" is not about a football team. If you think it is about a football team, you'd be wrong. You can't fall back on, "That's what it means to me." Mr. Sullivan wrote it about a specific thing. Songwriters wish to express a specific thought/feeling and if you say, "No, it is about whatever it means to me," then that is showing great disrespect to the songwriter. You are essentially telling the artist I don't believe what you are saying.

Art is specific. If you think it is something the artist did not intend, then you have a problem understanding art. "Christian Militia" is not about a soccer team even if you say it is. "Notice Me" is not about suicide even if a listener says it is.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Tony S on January 17, 2019, 03:58:54 PM
To add to all the other comments on the subject of Notice Me, I would add that the song actually ends with a repeat of the chorus. In the chorus, someone, or people in general are referring to the boy/young man, and saying;

"He was such a quiet boy, he was never any trouble before"

with the emphasis there on "was". This suggests that he has actually done something stupid, maybe carried out one of his threats/fantasies to try and get the object of his obsession to notice him. However, the chorus also contains the line;

"He's got an overblown sense of his own importance"

which is in the present tense, rather than "He had an overblown sense...". So this suggests that whatever he had done, it wasn't the last item on his list thankfully.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Whirlwind on January 17, 2019, 05:41:20 PM
.
"He's got an overblown sense of his own importance"

.
The line that follows that line was always of interest to me. The lyrics have the next line as:

"No one's really bothered around here"

Yet, when I first listened to that song (no lyrics sheet) I always heard:

"He's got an overblown sense of his own importance,
No one's really bought it 'round here."


Which is essentially the same thing...the dopey kid is dimissed. All his wild talk is just for show. No one's bought it, no one's bothered by it. Which makes 8's assessment of the "kill myself" line even more wrong. Everybody in town knows the guy is a bullshitter. Big talk, no action as we say in the States.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Stephanie on January 18, 2019, 11:48:31 AM
To add to all the other comments on the subject of Notice Me, I would add that the song actually ends with a repeat of the chorus. In the chorus, someone, or people in general are referring to the boy/young man, and saying;

"He was such a quiet boy, he was never any trouble before"

with the emphasis there on "was". This suggests that he has actually done something stupid, maybe carried out one of his threats/fantasies to try and get the object of his obsession to notice him. However, the chorus also contains the line;

"He's got an overblown sense of his own importance"

which is in the present tense, rather than "He had an overblown sense...". So this suggests that whatever he had done, it wasn't the last item on his list thankfully.
Oh, right...I had never given the tenses much thought, to be honest...but that IS an important point.
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: cthulhu on January 18, 2019, 12:48:30 PM
to me there's no single person described in this song.
it's the use of the first person view for dramatic reasons and for expression. the song uses that pov as a technique to describe roots of human, adolescent behaviour with no particular person in the meaning.  a character used to describe those manners which occur, if someone feels under-noticed or has some problems with his ego, testosterone maybe also.
so i think that it is a collection of topics and behaviours with the same root, but not a single history.

the outside world is reacting and doesn't know why the character is acting like that, and they wonder because they only saw a quiet boy in the past. to me that's a well used cliche here, it's what most people will say when they have only surfacial relationships with others.
it shows the disconnection to society or its rules of behaviour from the other side. we all have to maintain our masks and if we do most people are satisfied.

Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: Whirlwind on January 18, 2019, 03:27:35 PM
Well said, cthulhu.
Title: Re: Trying to understand the lyric / line, "I'll kill myself while you are watching"
Post by: ldopas on January 20, 2019, 09:17:18 AM
8, as I said at the start, you are misunderstanding that lyric.

But, hey, you can interpret any song the way you want. If you want to think "Smalltown England" is about London, have at it.

You tell them they are misunderstanding the song, then go on to say "you can interpret any song the way you want". Contradiction.
Title: Re: Trying to understand the lyric / line, "I'll kill myself while you are watching"
Post by: Whirlwind on January 20, 2019, 03:07:03 PM
8, as I said at the start, you are misunderstanding that lyric.

But, hey, you can interpret any song the way you want. If you want to think "Smalltown England" is about London, have at it.

You tell them they are misunderstanding the song, then go on to say "you can interpret any song the way you want". Contradiction.
.
Are you serious?

I say "hey, you can interpret any song the way you want" and then point out the stupidity in doing that: thinking "Smalltown England" is about London.

Read my above post where I point out people interpreting songs in their own way is both idiotic and disrespectful to the artist who wrote the song. I guess I have to make it clear to you: interpreting a song in your own way is dumb. It is not the way the artist intended the song. If you want to think "Smalltown England" is about Manchester that would be dumb.
Title: Re: Trying to understand the lyric / line, "I'll kill myself while you are watching"
Post by: Stephanie on January 21, 2019, 11:22:37 AM

Read my above post where I point out people interpreting songs in their own way is both idiotic and disrespectful to the artist who wrote the song. I guess I have to make it clear to you: interpreting a song in your own way is dumb. It is not the way the artist intended the song. If you want to think "Smalltown England" is about Manchester that would be dumb.
Nope my dear...telling people what to think and how to interpret things...like songs...that is dumb - and rude. But hey, we all know who this is coming from so it does not come as a suprise.

The only one being disrespectful here - and to artists as well - that is you.

BUT...you are clearly enjoying that - so I'll leave you to it. Sad enough that this seems to be one of the few things that gives you joy.  ;D
Title: Re: Seems I'm not understanding the line that worries me most, from "Notice Me"...
Post by: Tony S on January 22, 2019, 04:32:01 PM
And I've been posting on this board and earlier iterations of it for 15 years plus.


I reckon it must be getting on for 20 years now ldopas. I remember you and I (I think !) trying to convince everyone else how good the first 6 Van Halen albums were ! Going waaaay back  ;)
Title: Re: Trying to understand the lyric / line, "I'll kill myself while you are watching"
Post by: Red on January 23, 2019, 06:43:42 PM
...
I have always interpreted it as some young, probably very insecure person....this person is being all dramatic, imagining what they would do to get the object of their desire to finally notice them.
Dunno, I think we have all been there to a degree, haven't we?  ;)

Until I had read your posts it has never ocurred to me to consider that the song might be about someone who has already gone a step further - into morbid obsession, or indeed even depression -

Bingo.

8, as I said at the start, you are misunderstanding that lyric.

But, hey, you can interpret any song the way you want. If you want to think "Smalltown England" is about London, have at it.


In my eyes Smalltown England relates to where I grew up and my personal experiences and its not London or Bradford

We could all relate to all or part of this track depending how we interpret it
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: chunky on February 19, 2019, 08:17:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSvGPRZm3qo
Title: Re: So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?
Post by: 8 on February 21, 2019, 08:00:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSvGPRZm3qo

Oooo, Chunky... you don't like "Inheritance"!

Mr. Sullivan's vocal is the best thing about it.  He's not really singing, but moreso speaking in his beautifully rich, natural tone.  "Inheritance"  would work a cappella,  actually.  Never quite understood what the lyric  "We line up at THE wedding, in rows of deep set eyes"  fully or actually meant, alluded to.  Like, whose wedding was it anyway?  Was is some arranged marriage or something?  Perhaps that's what brought on the  "rows of deep set eyes"?  hopeless lol, like we're ever going to know, have these questions answered.  Still, part of the joy of listening to the contents of the NMA/JS repertoire is the sacred room it affords for each of us to wonder, think, ask, grow, dream.  Qualities of which I value, cherish, love.  :)