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General Category => Everything Else => Topic started by: Amandistan on April 30, 2015, 01:55:01 PM
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I have said this before to someone and it really pissed them off (resulting in personal attacks) and that is that The Beatles are overrated.
Now, i don't think they are a bad band. Some of the songs are but but they are not a bad band.
Here are the usual arguments.
1. The Beatles have the best collection of songs and are the best band ever.
Well, that's a matter of opinion. I can name several bands that I believe have a far,far, far better back catalog. NMA being one, The clash being another and Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Leonard Cohen. Even U2 has a better back catalog.
2. The songs are all wonderfully written.
This is another thing that is subjective. There are some songs such as "I am the Walrus" that make no sense at all. Other songs have "ooh, ahh, yeah and other sounds used to make the words flow. They do it too much.
3. They were the most influential band in history.
but if they had not existed, another band would have come along and took their place in musical history. It was the error, the location and what was going on in the world that mattered.
I will admit that they do have some brilliant songs but not anymore brilliant than many other artists who do not get the same attention. And I don't dislike them and love some of their songs but I do think that they are way overhyped by the media while better bands are largely ignored.
Does anyone else agree, disagree or not even care? ;D
Any thoughts please comment.
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They were game changers. Like Elvis did in the 50's, they changed music in the 60's. It's as simple as that. I'm not a huge fan, but I have all the albums and enjoy listening to them. Not overrated for me!
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Personally I am not really bothered either way. I like some of the later Beatles material and have a couple of albums, that's as far as my interest goes. But, I am glad if we are going to talk about the Beatles so much, that it is now happening on a dedicated thread instead of polluting threads about NMA :)
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Sadly, the member that speaks of them most is not active on this subforum. Meaning they still will be brought up on most NMA topics as well. :)
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Yes I'm glad that you started a separate thread Amanda
Personally i don't like them n don't have any of there material and have no interest in getting any Yes they might have had the odd decent song along the way. I don't get all the fuss and can't see why anyone under say 55 would be interested. I've always said for me that music started in 76/77 with punk and with the odd exception that holds true. Tell me to open my mind if you like well I've tried and didn't like most of what i heard.
each to their own !
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All music is subjective. I quite like The Beatles - though I've only got one album (The White Album) and tbh I'm not a massive fan - but the general consensus, and so as close as you'll get to an objective view, from
-sales
-musicologists
-historians
-sociologists
-other musicians
is that the Beatles are the "best" (whatever that means) band ever & Lennon/McCartney are amongst the best song writers of the 20th Century. I think I said the same in the last thread - but I don't think its changed much in the intervening time.
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Overrated - the music or the influence they had?
The Beatles opened a door here in germany
TV and broadcast and the newspapers and the record shops, they offered the same menue:
This special german version of pop-music called Schlager (he/she loves me or he/she doesn`t - grr), german artists or foreign artists with german lyrics, we had some jazz or swing, Elvis ..
And then the hype with the Beatles did the break!
Suddenly tv, broadcast, newspapers, record stores started to write about/play/sell something else :D
The Beatles - boys with long hair in a suit - singing "Sie liebt Dich, Yeah Yeah Yeah!)"
Parents get used to that - they are not that dangerous ...
But with the Beatles came the dark side: Rolling Stones (never doing a german lyric version of a song),
and than it all began: a new market place, the record companies and the music industrie and related business offered a lot of new music here in germany:
blues, soul, psychodalic, hard rock, german bands trying to be a german version of x or y, then later with their own style, this so called "Krautrock" (Can or Kraftwerk aren`t Krautrock for me, but that`s a kind of a label for people outside germany) . ...
So thanks to the Beatles, without them I don`t know if or when I had the chance to become a fan of the Stones, Eric Burdon, Hendrix, Cream and the rest or if the german "Rockpalast" had ever the chance to start ;D
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They were game changers. Like Elvis did in the 50's, they changed music in the 60's. It's as simple as that. I'm not a huge fan, but I have all the albums and enjoy listening to them. Not overrated for me!
This is spot on . The Beatles were for their time. Mid and late 60's. 8)
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They were game changers. Like Elvis did in the 50's, they changed music in the 60's. It's as simple as that. I'm not a huge fan, but I have all the albums and enjoy listening to them. Not overrated for me!
This is spot on . The Beatles were for their time. Mid and late 60's. 8)
I kind of agree. The fact we're having the debate would suggest that they left a legacy and something to aspire to for "pop" bands. I guess doing what they did when they did made them a huge band. I personally dont like everything they did or the written by a 6 year old lyrics in the beginning. But it changed the game.
But.....I dislike the pro 60's mob who have forced it on everyone as the best time everrrrrr. For them maybe. I enjoyed the 90's but Im buggered if Ill waffle on about it for 50 years
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And to add...Yellow Submarine. The Shaddapa ya face of its day lol
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I'm afraid I have to go with the 'not-over-rated opinion'... :-[
I just can't think of another band who went from the likes of simple stuff like 'Love Me Do' to the psychedelic craziness of later albums in just EIGHT years. This, in these days when a highly regarded artist like Adele (I'm not a fan) hasn't put out an album in four years... ::) and, yes, much of that craziness must be due to the influence of drugs... a lot of their later stuff is drug-addled crap... but so many great tunes inbetween that influenced so many artists, even to this day...
So yeah, I love The Beatles, but respect to all your opinions.
Although, Beatles fans, this one might grind your gears... I've always preferred McCartney's solo stuff to Lennon's...
???
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Love them, of course. One of the first bands I ever listened to. But at the time, I also was into Eddie Cochran, Duran Duran and Dexys Midnight Runners. I was 8 years old.
Nowadays, if I'd ever compare something with the (great) Beatles it would be something like very obscure thing to do. Like, if I'd compare them who is better, Slayer or the Beatles; Coroner or Paul Simon... Why would I do that?
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Love them, of course. One of the first bands I ever listened to. But at the time, I also was into Eddie Cochran, Duran Duran and Dexys Midnight Runners. I was 8 years old.
Nowadays, if I'd ever compare something with the (great) Beatles it would be something like very obscure thing to do. Like, if I'd compare them who is better, Slayer or the Beatles; Coroner or Paul Simon... Why would I do that?
Oy, Dexy's are awesome!
;D
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Yeah, they are! And hats off to their singer - ex-Kevin Rowland. ;)
But to the point, I too don't think the Beatles are over rated.
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Hmm, The Beatles have never really done it for me. I like a few individual songs, Tomorrow Never Knows, Strawberry Fields, Hey Jude, and a few others, but on the whole, I've never felt inspired enough to want to buy any of their albums. As a consequence I don't own any Beatles material at all, and I don't really feel I'm missing out on anything. There's a lot of stuff from the mid 60s onwards that I love - Hendrix, Zep, Black Sabbath, early Deep Purple, and lots more, but if I go back to early 60s, there's really only The Stones for me.
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I don't dislike them but for me the best songs are mostly by the underrated Beatle. George Harrison had the best song and that is "While my Guitar Gently Weeps".
I am not saying that they didn't make an impact but come on "Love me Do", "She Loves you" and "I want to hold your hand." have not lyrical and emotional depth. At least for me. I hear some of the early songs and think How is this considered genius.
Now, Eleanor Rigby was among the best early Beatles song because it had emotion.
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I think they fully deserve all the accolades. As individuals, they were quite a mixture, each of whom gave their own priceless contribution in one way or another.
Where they did have the sense was to call it a day before things got absurd. If you listen to the solo material, each of them was on a different planet by 1970. IMO, Harrison was by far the most interesting by this point.
The fact that the Stones didn't realise when to call it a day has damaged their legacy somewhat. The early stuff can be just as good and even better than The Beatles, but most of the later stuff an outright joke, sorry to say....
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Amandistan... IMO, those songs weren't supposed to have 'depth'. They were just silly pop songs from a bunch of young lads... and perfect ones at that. The concept of 'pop music' has been so degraded in recent decades, drowned in hype, fashion and bad imagery... sometimes, all that is needed is a simple concept and simple instrumentation. And the likes of IWHYH is just a perfect example...
Pumpkin... couldn't agree more. I started a 'Beatles vs Stones' thread a while back and I always came down on the side of The Beatles because they didn't disgrace their legacy in pursuit of more cash. The Stones were all richer than God by the end of the 70's, yet they still threw out album after album that pissed all over the memory of their very fine earlier tunes... and still had the nerve to charge people over £100 for tickets to their last tour... seriously, how much ******* money do you need?
::)
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Amandistan... IMO, those songs weren't supposed to have 'depth'. They were just silly pop songs from a bunch of young lads... and perfect ones at that. The concept of 'pop music' has been so degraded in recent decades, drowned in hype, fashion and bad imagery... sometimes, all that is needed is a simple concept and simple instrumentation. And the likes of IWHYH is just a perfect example...
::)
The Perfect answer Master Ray. They were pop songs in the mid 60's all theses songs were on AM Radio so the length of the music was not supposed to go over 3 minutes.
Let me say as an American growing up in that time You may not realized just what the Beatles did. Popular music that time was very different for one music radio there was color barrier. Some stations did not play music by black artist That was policy in some places the top acts at least around the time just before the Beatles crossed the Pond consisted of the remains of the Doo Wop Groups. Of course Bill Haley, Chuck Berry, of course Elvis was the King and probably Franki Valli & the 4 seasons The sound coming out of Cali was surf music with the Beach Boys and Jan & Dean for the blacks Chubby Checker and the Motown sound was our staple with the exceptions of a few TV variety shows most of those acts Never played together in shows Read up on the Chilitin Circuit that Black Acts had to go on some real good stories.
The Beatles changed all that in one show on Ed Sullivan. Because of the Beatles they helped every other band in England as the changed in the sound of the music and the thirst of American audiences for something new every band that was from England came and made the Sound of Rock & Roll change. from the Stones the Kinks, Freddy & The Dreamers, Hermans Hermits, The Who, The Animals, The Yardbyrds, The Zombies, All these bands can thank the Beatles for expanding and changing the music The 1st British Invasion I am a witness to it I saw and grew up in it.
Not only that but it made American acts travel over to Europe and the stories I heard from the Black musicians who toured Europe and how warmly they were greeted and the huge audiences they had at their shows most of them never played before white audiences before It was because of the Beatles and the other British Acts who grew up on Chuck Berry or Fats Domino, Miles Davis, Muddy Waters, BB King and said that they got their inspiration by these Black music acts.soon some Radio stations started to play both Black and white music in their setlist that's how FM came into being the place to hear all this great music. 8)
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Amandistan... IMO, those songs weren't supposed to have 'depth'. They were just silly pop songs from a bunch of young lads... and perfect ones at that. The concept of 'pop music' has been so degraded in recent decades, drowned in hype, fashion and bad imagery... sometimes, all that is needed is a simple concept and simple instrumentation. And the likes of IWHYH is just a perfect example...
::)
The Perfect answer Master Ray. They were pop songs in the mid 60's all theses songs were on AM Radio so the length of the music was not supposed to go over 3 minutes.
Let me say as an American growing up in that time You may not realized just what the Beatles did. Popular music that time was very different for one music radio there was color barrier. Some stations did not play music by black artist That was policy in some places the top acts at least around the time just before the Beatles crossed the Pond consisted of the remains of the Doo Wop Groups. Of course Bill Haley, Chuck Berry, of course Elvis was the King and probably Franki Valli & the 4 seasons The sound coming out of Cali was surf music with the Beach Boys and Jan & Dean for the blacks Chubby Checker and the Motown sound was our staple with the exceptions of a few TV variety shows most of those acts Never played together in shows Read up on the Chilitin Circuit that Black Acts had to go on some real good stories.
The Beatles changed all that in one show on Ed Sullivan. Because of the Beatles they helped every other band in England as the changed in the sound of the music and the thirst of American audiences for something new every band that was from England came and made the Sound of Rock & Roll change. from the Stones the Kinks, Freddy & The Dreamers, Hermans Hermits, The Who, The Animals, The Yardbyrds, The Zombies, All these bands can thank the Beatles for expanding and changing the music The 1st British Invasion I am a witness to it I saw and grew up in it.
Not only that but it made American acts travel over to Europe and the stories I heard from the Black musicians who toured Europe and how warmly they were greeted and the huge audiences they had at their shows most of them never played before white audiences before It was because of the Beatles and the other British Acts who grew up on Chuck Berry or Fats Domino, Miles Davis, Muddy Waters, BB King and said that they got their inspiration by these Black music acts.soon some Radio stations started to play both Black and white music in their setlist that's how FM came into being the place to hear all this great music. 8)
Fantastic post, Ron!!!
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Interesting post Ron.
I suppose to some extent back then anyone from the States in the U.K. was a bit exciting, a bit different. Didn't mater what colour they were. During the war, black G.I.'s I remember hearing were surprised they were treated the same as their white comrades, expecting to be treated differently. I think the States more so in past U.K. popular culture has been seen as the exciting and happening place.
I have always thought that Buddy Holly opened many doors State side to black music, people not having heard such before assumed he was black when listening, - or at least, that was the impression given in the film about Buddy. Would you say there is any truth in that Ron ?
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Interesting post Ron.
I suppose to some extent back then anyone from the States in the U.K. was a bit exciting, a bit different. Didn't mater what colour they were. During the war, black G.I.'s I remember hearing were surprised they were treated the same as their white comrades, expecting to be treated differently. I think the States more so in past U.K. popular culture has been seen as the exciting and happening place.
I have always thought that Buddy Holly opened many doors State side to black music, people not having heard such before assumed he was black when listening, - or at least, that was the impression given in the film about Buddy. Would you say there is any truth in that Ron ?
An interesting thought Shush although Little Richard will always claim that he was the real inventor of the Rock and Roll Sound Buddy Holly I would not consider opened the doors for Black music as their were always Jazz and Coltrane and Miles Davis were around and you know for the true music Lover they had plenty of Jazz clubs see Buddy Holly was big right around the time I was Born so I remember nothing about him My earliest recollections of music are of the 4 seasons , Cubby Checker, Beach Boys, Jan & Dean this was maybe 1962 1963 before Kennedy was assassinated 8)
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Well, maybe the fact that I wasn't born until the late 80's is why I can't fully appreciate it.
I guess if you were a kid at that time, It's different.
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Yes, Amandistana, you are too young - you can`t know the world beeing young and a tv, a phone, a car or a record player wasn`t standard at home or in the neighbourhood , and Internet or a PC - that didn`t exist ...
The success of the Beatles opened the doors in many others states for other artists - in that way they (and the music business behind them) started a wind of change - it that way they can`t be overrated !
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Yes, Amandistana, you are too young - you can`t know the world beeing young and a tv, a phone, a car or a record player wasn`t standard at home or in the neighbourhood , and Internet or a PC - that didn`t exist ...
The success of the Beatles opened the doors in many others states for other artists - in that way they (and the music business behind them) started a wind of change - it that way they can`t be overrated !
I think you've nailed it there Lotus.
As a cultural phenomenon The Beatles cannot be touched.
There was nothing like them before and nothing like them since: modern day "pop" acts that sell zillions and get everywhere don't kick open doors in society like those 4 scouse buggers did.
As for the music - well that's down to personal taste like every other band that's ever put a record out. Either you like it or you don't. Judgements as to whether the music is over/under-rated are purely individual. Any pronouncement by me is just as valid or absurd as anyone else's. Nobody will change my response to a piece of music and neither will I change anybody else's.
Personally - they do frack all for me, nothing that hasn't been done better by some other band somewhere along the line. There's a couple of tracks I really like but they seem to be the 2 covered by Siouxsie & The Banshees. Mind you I have to say that the version of Helter Skelter that McCartney did at Glastonbury a while back was ******* brilliant. But overall - totally overrated
:-*
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Well as a rock fan I've got no Beatles albums. But they did write some of the best songs ever written; A Day In The Life for example had depth and melody.
And I agree it is subjective. For example some of the artists mentioned as "better" than the Beatles here; Bob Dylan I think is pretty much shit (very small number of songs of his I like and the dude cannot sing at all). And Leonard Cohen makes me want to slit my wrists.
But people are also right, its about time and place as well!
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Not a big fan of theres was it Ringo who wrote yellow submarine remember Bill Hicks rip saying he did and they had to scrape him off the ceiling he was that ******* high
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And just to go off-post for a bit... anyone else know Beatallica? Always makes me chuckle... :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA_CgX2ihVg
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Nope - Not over-rated. A great band, great solo artist, great influence.
And who's slitting their wrists over Leonard Cohen?
The person/band I can't get into is Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. A couple good songs, but most make just shake my head. And don't get me started on Birthday Party!