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Everything Else / Re: Whatever makes you happy..
« Last post by Winterwulf on March 09, 2026, 10:39:43 PM »This is the sort of discussion that would be great to do in a pub over a few pints, but never mind, we're online, talking to each other and not shrieking abuse at each other which is good. Far more importantly, nuance is coming into it which is the thing too often lost on social media, where far too many people want to "see the world in black and white, instead of a hundred shades of grey".
Whilst I do plead guilty in part to name-calling by describing Nigel Farage and Reform as fascists, I will also plead mitigation as a student of history and someone who tries to pull information about current affairs from multiple sources and is seriously worried by the patterns I'm seeing, specifically "wedge" creep of the propositions being put to the country about the source of their ills. Go back to pre-Brexit times and it was all about how the UK's problems were all down to being an EU member and how our open borders within the EU were flooding us with all these people from Eastern Europe and everything would be wonderful if we threw off all those EU diktats holding us back and all those people coming here and taking all the jobs and houses...
As an aside here, an old mate of mine from my time at Bradford Uni now lives in Warsaw - he once commented to me that a lot of the Poles with drive and ambition came to Britain when Poland joined the EU, leaving the whingers and slackers behind and they're now all moaning about how the all the jobs and houses are being taken by those Belarussians and Ukranians and how it would be so much better if they were kicked out - sound familiar?
Back to the UK now, and we're out of the UK so what can be blamed? Those people trying to get across the channel, let's ignore the removal of ways for those genuinely needing shelter in the UK to claim that without setting foot in the country, and instead focus on the ones who don't need asylum but see a better life here. The systems we have in place struggle to distinguish between them so let's then blame the international legal structures that come into play. Withdrawing from the ECHR is now the thing we apparently "just need to do to take back control" but stop for a minute and consider what else is underpinned by it. A lot of protections for all of us, like employment rights, environmental protections, to name but a few - all hard-won by past generations, but shall they be thrown away because there are people risking crossing the channel in dinghies? If you've never come across it, look up Chesterton's fence - before decrying any regulation as " red tape" and demanding it be removed, you should be able to show that the reason for the fence being built in the first place is no longer valid.
Now... ask Cicero's question about this "Who benefits?" The answer as I see it is , not us ordinary people but the ones with money pushing it into Farage's pocket who would really like to be able to pollute if it increases their profits, screw their employees over without any redress, and generally do what the hell they like, having us back in the UK Victorian era or pre-WW2 America.
Look to America under Trump (who Farage so admires and aspires to be) , Hungary under Orban, or Russia under Putin for the warnings, and the reasons I'm so worried about Farage getting real power are there - all were democratically elected promising better times for ordinary people because "the elite" and " the others" were stopping them getting it but what you actually get are the dismantling of the checks and balances of a properly functioning democratic state.
Going off at a tangent though, one thing that I recently got really pissed off at was Bangor Uni's debating society refusing to invite Sarah Pochin and another Reform representative because they felt they "shouldn't be giving a platform" to them and their views. Well, they may be feeling pleased with themselves with their little bit of cancel culture, but for those of us with longer memories who remember the British National Party on the rise as a political party, we remember the " no platform" squeals when Nick Griffin was invited onto "Question Time". What happened? The audience utterly crucified him and shattered the mask of the BNP as a serious political party and instead dragged its racist reality into the light.
I'll have to stop there for now as it's bed time (up at 5.45 as usual) but there's a lot more we can go over, not to mention a lot of tangents I would have gone off on if we'd been talking in the pub, so if people are happy to continue, great! We need more reasoned discussion at length over the problems of today if we're going to find real solutions.
Whilst I do plead guilty in part to name-calling by describing Nigel Farage and Reform as fascists, I will also plead mitigation as a student of history and someone who tries to pull information about current affairs from multiple sources and is seriously worried by the patterns I'm seeing, specifically "wedge" creep of the propositions being put to the country about the source of their ills. Go back to pre-Brexit times and it was all about how the UK's problems were all down to being an EU member and how our open borders within the EU were flooding us with all these people from Eastern Europe and everything would be wonderful if we threw off all those EU diktats holding us back and all those people coming here and taking all the jobs and houses...
As an aside here, an old mate of mine from my time at Bradford Uni now lives in Warsaw - he once commented to me that a lot of the Poles with drive and ambition came to Britain when Poland joined the EU, leaving the whingers and slackers behind and they're now all moaning about how the all the jobs and houses are being taken by those Belarussians and Ukranians and how it would be so much better if they were kicked out - sound familiar?
Back to the UK now, and we're out of the UK so what can be blamed? Those people trying to get across the channel, let's ignore the removal of ways for those genuinely needing shelter in the UK to claim that without setting foot in the country, and instead focus on the ones who don't need asylum but see a better life here. The systems we have in place struggle to distinguish between them so let's then blame the international legal structures that come into play. Withdrawing from the ECHR is now the thing we apparently "just need to do to take back control" but stop for a minute and consider what else is underpinned by it. A lot of protections for all of us, like employment rights, environmental protections, to name but a few - all hard-won by past generations, but shall they be thrown away because there are people risking crossing the channel in dinghies? If you've never come across it, look up Chesterton's fence - before decrying any regulation as " red tape" and demanding it be removed, you should be able to show that the reason for the fence being built in the first place is no longer valid.
Now... ask Cicero's question about this "Who benefits?" The answer as I see it is , not us ordinary people but the ones with money pushing it into Farage's pocket who would really like to be able to pollute if it increases their profits, screw their employees over without any redress, and generally do what the hell they like, having us back in the UK Victorian era or pre-WW2 America.
Look to America under Trump (who Farage so admires and aspires to be) , Hungary under Orban, or Russia under Putin for the warnings, and the reasons I'm so worried about Farage getting real power are there - all were democratically elected promising better times for ordinary people because "the elite" and " the others" were stopping them getting it but what you actually get are the dismantling of the checks and balances of a properly functioning democratic state.
Going off at a tangent though, one thing that I recently got really pissed off at was Bangor Uni's debating society refusing to invite Sarah Pochin and another Reform representative because they felt they "shouldn't be giving a platform" to them and their views. Well, they may be feeling pleased with themselves with their little bit of cancel culture, but for those of us with longer memories who remember the British National Party on the rise as a political party, we remember the " no platform" squeals when Nick Griffin was invited onto "Question Time". What happened? The audience utterly crucified him and shattered the mask of the BNP as a serious political party and instead dragged its racist reality into the light.
I'll have to stop there for now as it's bed time (up at 5.45 as usual) but there's a lot more we can go over, not to mention a lot of tangents I would have gone off on if we'd been talking in the pub, so if people are happy to continue, great! We need more reasoned discussion at length over the problems of today if we're going to find real solutions.
