Has Justin lost his hook?

[Mattias]

Hi

This might be an unpopular topic. I love NMA and have every album. But to me the two last albums From Here and Surrounded are missing any song with a big chorus or cathy hooks. Listening to the songs in isolation I love them, the lyrics and soundscape is great. They are great. I really mean that.

But as albums it seems to flow together as a single mass without standouts. If there were a song with a big chorus like for example autumn or guitar or bass hook like Island on them I would totally be on board. But to me the last two albums flow together like one mass without any standouts or hooks. Do anyone agree or understand where I'm coming from?

Just my opinion. Please don't hate on me. Flame shield on.

[huwcamden]

I'm sure that us NMA faithful can deal with "unpopular topics" Mattias and criticism may not sit well with some but I say good on you for offering a risky opinion..my answer would be Yes the hook has gone generally ( where I am being the obvious massive exception though..that song could slot straight into thunder and consolation)...I doubt it's been lost though..I would say its just sullivan striving to move forward musically and explore more organic often rhythmic musical artforms..the recent stuff is still good though and interesting...I've often said I'd love them to do an album with pure pop hooks on every track though..backed up with artillery attack drums and wall of noise bass and guitar!

[fiddlesticks]

I found Surrounded didn't click with me at first.
Then I liked it.
Then I really loved it.
Never known another album do that quite the same way.

But I know what you mean. The music has got deeper, more thoughtful, more poetic, more expansive and less immediate.

No bad thing, there's got to be space to explore all these ideas.

[Guillaume]

But to me the two last albums From Here and Surrounded are missing any song with a big chorus or cathy hooks.

I think Justin's two solo albums aren't really about catchy, "easy" choruses, but much more about creating atmospheres. On "From here" which is for me a solid album I find that there are nevertheless titles with catchy choruses like "Never arriving", "End of days", "Great disguise", "Conversation"..but it's true that NMA's latest albums (we'll say since "Between dog and wolf") are perhaps less immediate than the first ones, perhaps more elaborate, more complex, more atmospheric, they perhaps lose immediate effectiveness what they gain in richness of writing and complexity/maturity..

[Valstar]

I would add, and with maximum respect for one of the best lyricist ever (with Shane Mc Gowan ? ), that some songs lyrics, since BD&W, seems, to me, unfinished, don't quite fall in place (don't know if I'm clear ).
For examples, I would say "it could be mountains, it could be stormclouds" line seems always out of place to me, sounding weird in my ears, most of Knievel lyrics too, in "where I am" when he sing "come baaaaack" I always here "kumbayaaaaa" and it feels strange (my whole family, even the kids, makes fun of me about this kumbaya thing but I can't unhear it !), and some other songs.

BUT

Maps/Setting Sun/From Here is one of the best sequence I've heard on an album, so beautiful, and lyrics are amazing, Die Trying bring tears in my eyes a.s.o. ... so with the amount of albums, during more than 40 years, I'd say it's absolutely incredible how many great songs (anthems ?), with beautiful, moving and/or straight to the guts lyrics they have done, are doing, and probably will still do

As always, I'll wait with impatience for the next album, and the magic moment that it is to play it for the first time

[lupus225]

Hi

This might be an unpopular topic. I love NMA and have every album. But to me the two last albums From Here and Surrounded are missing any song with a big chorus or cathy hooks. Listening to the songs in isolation I love them, the lyrics and soundscape is great. They are great. I really mean that.

But as albums it seems to flow together as a single mass without standouts. If there were a song with a big chorus like for example autumn or guitar or bass hook like Island on them I would totally be on board. But to me the last two albums flow together like one mass without any standouts or hooks. Do anyone agree or understand where I'm coming from?

Just my opinion. Please don't hate on me. Flame shield on.

Agreed, Matthias! I'm not a big fan of From Here and Surrounded either.
There are a couple of okay songs but absolutely no stand-outs for me.
Still looking forward to the German October gigs

"kumbayaaaaa" 

[Johnz]

Well you managed to actually get people to reply to a thread!  That's a pretty rare occurrence these days.

I don't think you're alone with your opinion, especially regarding Surrounded. Most people expected NBTS 2.0 and got something completely different. Ironically, opinions over NBTS were very divided when it came out.  Personally, I love Surrounded and I love the fact that it explores new ground. I do think it's an album that more people will discover for themselves over time. It just takes the right frame of mind, I think.

To my ears From Here is a solid album, too. My only criticism would be that it seems a continuation of a theme that started with BDAW (and remember how hugely unpopular that album was with many people). To me, the change that you describe started with BDAW. However, BDAW is one of my favourite NMA albums so I'm fine with the lack of anthems and catchy choruses. All the elements are still there just less immediate perhaps.

Luckily, JS is a prolific writer and I'm sure that there is always the next album to look forward to. Anyway, it's a valid opinion so don't apologize. And keep posting!

[Stephanie]

Interesting thought!

Well, to me, "From Here" and "Surrounded" are just...different. It's true that it took me a little longer to really fully get into them - but now I do like them a lot.

The lyrics are great and the songs create this certain atmosphere I can get lost in - I guess that, just as is the case with music in general, there is an NMA song/album to suit every possible mood at different stages in your life.

And yeah, we know that the band likes to try out different styles, different approaches - it's this I very much appreciate, even if the outcome might not always be 100% my cup of tea.

Btw...good to be in a place where these things can still be discussed without anyone feeling offended. 

[Guillaume]

Ironically, opinions over NBTS were very divided when it came out.

I find it curious, because I still remember rave reviews when NBTS was released in 2003! But the curious thing is that this album was little listened to by NMA fans who mostly appreciate the punk/rock Justin and his anthems. Yet NBTS (and "Surrounded") is one of Justin's finest works.

[Valstar]

NBTS is, in my opinion, a masterpiece. I love everything about it, every song. Surrounded is a really good album, but I wasn't blown away like with NBTS. But those are Justin albums, not NMA albums, i try to dissociate those, even if ...

But even if I didn't like as much albums since BDAW, reading that there's a new album in the making, that will be different again from past albums, it just gives me goose bumps, as always, I'm so impatient to listen to new NMA stuff.

And, being 50 now, I have to remember that I will not feel the same when hearing new stuff, I still can be really moved (luckily) but it can't be the same as when you're 18 and you hear something like "we are lost, we are freaks, we're crippled we're weak" and I could go on and on (I was, but my post was starting to be too long, so removed the No Rest, 225, Vanity and Orange Tree Road lines I wrote ).

I can still feel a new song right in my guts, but it can't be the same raw feeling

[Stephanie]

And, being 50 now, I have to remember that I will not feel the same when hearing new stuff, I still can be really moved (luckily) but it can't be the same as when you're 18 and you hear something like "we are lost, we are freaks, we're crippled we're weak" and I could go on and on (I was, but my post was starting to be too long, so removed the No Rest, 225, Vanity and Orange Tree Road lines I wrote ).

I can still feel a new song right in my guts, but it can't be the same raw feeling

I have never given this much thought...but this is absolutely true, isn't it? A bit sad, somehow, but it makes sense. 

[Valstar]

It’s not sad, because the raw energy you loose is replaced by a deeper understanding of things too 😉

One isn’t better than the other, it’s the road you take to go from one to the other that worth it 😁

[monerl]

I looooove From Here, one of my favorites, and I love winter and Surrounded,
I must say I disagree

[Valstar]

I must say I disagree

That’s the beauty of it 😁

[Johnz]

And, being 50 now, I have to remember that I will not feel the same when hearing new stuff, I still can be really moved (luckily) but it can't be the same as when you're 18 and you hear something like "we are lost, we are freaks, we're crippled we're weak" and I could go on and on (I was, but my post was starting to be too long, so removed the No Rest, 225, Vanity and Orange Tree Road lines I wrote ).

I can still feel a new song right in my guts, but it can't be the same raw feeling

I have never given this much thought...but this is absolutely true, isn't it? A bit sad, somehow, but it makes sense. 

I know what you mean and I feel that way about lots of bands from my youth. But NMA are one of the few exceptions for me. Maybe my musical taste has matured in the same way as their music but I rarely feel nostalgic about NMA. They are very much a current band in my mind and I like their recent stuff as much as the classics. Songs like States Radio, Summer Moors, Eyes Get Used to the Darkness or Where I am are move me as much as any of their 80s anthems.