Eyes Get Used To The Darkness = No Rest 2.0 ?

[cthulhu]

This question or feeling is stuck in my head for so long, so how do you feel about this theory..

It has mostly to do with the drums kicking in in EGUTTD, it reminded me of the No Rest Rhythm, but the feeling was more present live...like when Justin is shredding and then he shifts the tone and then No Rest starts...i kind of fell for it more than one time thinking No Rest will come but then EGUTTD began...

You know what i mean? Or am i totally off track...
I also think that thematically it could be a hint from EGUTTD to No Rest..somehow...

[Guillaume]

And "Die trying" on the same album sounds at the beginning like "Higher wall" part 2!  I imagine it can't always be easy to avoid repeating yourself when you've been writing music for so many years and albums. On UNBROKEN there are also bass lines that remind me of Nelson's work on the album TODAY IS A GOOD DAY.

[cthulhu]

I would agree..and i think these isn't about having a hard time not to repeat yourself with such a catalogue of songs but i think are both are total deliberate descisions. To present the story in that way.
With Higher Wall and Die Trying it really feels like a part two or an ongoing telling of the same story or topic, with a very similar music structure. And with EGUTTD and No Rest i feel the connection lies in the theme of guilt and conscience in both songs, but the similarities are more subtle.  It's kind of a hint to the past musically, like a hidden hommage or quoting your own work.

[huwcamden]

Afew other examples of close similarity I'd noticed are in the the intro to "wonderful way to go" the single lead guitar notes are almost the same as the acoustic guitar notes in the "green and grey" intro and the verse to "long goodbye" is highly reminiscent of "stupid questions"...both songs from "strange brotherhood" so maybe some patching up was going on in production...either way it's totally fine to plagiarise yourself in my book and the songs work great.

[Guillaume]

Afew other examples of close similarity I'd noticed are in the the intro to "wonderful way to go" the single lead guitar notes are almost the same as the acoustic guitar notes in the "green and grey" intro

The famous guitar intro of "Green and grey" was "stolen" it seems from the band Yes on this track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuGAWR2eRyQ&list=RDLuGAWR2eRyQ&start_radio=1

[cthulhu]

Afew other examples of close similarity I'd noticed are in the the intro to "wonderful way to go" the single lead guitar notes are almost the same as the acoustic guitar notes in the "green and grey" intro and the verse to "long goodbye" is highly reminiscent of "stupid questions"...both songs from "strange brotherhood" so maybe some patching up was going on in production...either way it's totally fine to plagiarise yourself in my book and the songs work great.

The "long goodbye" reminiscence to "stupid question" i also felt/heard at once then and now that you've mentioned it, i can hear wwtg in my head and yeah...there is something there...and damn, once you heard something in a special way, you can't unhear it ;-) Like misheard lyrics...another topic..

Afew other examples of close similarity I'd noticed are in the the intro to "wonderful way to go" the single lead guitar notes are almost the same as the acoustic guitar notes in the "green and grey" intro

The famous guitar intro of "Green and grey" was "stolen" it seems from the band Yes on this track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuGAWR2eRyQ&list=RDLuGAWR2eRyQ&start_radio=1

Yes, (no pun intended;-) that's amazing how similar in feeling, notes and atmosphere that sounds. Totally could be of some influence unconsciously but also consciously, but i somehow doubt it. Just can't imagine (why?) that they heard or liked the music of Yes..but that's also just a stupid assumption and it could totally also be like Rob loved them, i just don't know.

With all these examples, great ones and totally great to mention, they do not get to what i was feeling with EGUTTD and No Rest..i feels to me, that maybe the lyrics came first and Justin said let's have a similar drum feeling of no rest, because i want to hint to that, write another story, same but different...

Anyway it's all speculation. But i do feel there's a clear line between similar ideas, inspiration, synchronicity, the common consciousnes field and plagiarism.

Plagiarism is taking another ones idea, because you know it works for you, and then try to exploit it, at least that's how i try to seperate those different meanings.

And anyway, there's never nothing new under the sun!

..."Double, triple bluff and then back on itself
a world of ironies and tribute bands, everything downsized
I don't know where it was but I swear I've heard that song
...

 

[huwcamden]

There's 2 other songs on "winter" which are very similar also I'd noticed...The drum beat to "weak and strong" is identical to "orange tree roads" (taken from modern love by the thin white duke himself I reckon!)..and the chugging menacing monotone riff intro to "burn the castle" is pretty much "lurrstap" (both of which come from English civil war by the clash most likely)..still sound great though and possibly purposefully done as I know the winter album was a deliberate back to basics punk band in a room album....oh and beat wise, as cthulhu's original post was pointing out I'd say the thrash metal drumbeat from "225"has been replicated in "get me out".
The similarities are in the music and rhythms mainly though, very little repetition in vocal melodies or lyrics though, which is pretty amazing over 300 songs or so.

[Guillaume]

Yes, (no pun intended;-) that's amazing how similar in feeling, notes and atmosphere that sounds. Totally could be of some influence unconsciously but also consciously, but i somehow doubt it. Just can't imagine (why?) that they heard or liked the music of Yes..but that's also just a stupid assumption and it could totally also be like Rob loved them, i just don't know.

Whether the influence was deliberate or not, this superb guitar intro to "Green and Grey" (which remains for me, to this day, one of the most beautiful NMA songs) has been somewhat diminished in its beauty and inspiration for me since the day I heard the rather similar one by Yes! Then again, it wouldn't necessarily be surprising if Robert Heaton (and/or Justin) liked 70s Progressive Rock. Justin, I believe, cited Pink Floyd as a musical influence on the album BETWEEN DOG AND WOLF and he said a few years ago that he liked certain Pink Floyd albums from the 70s... so why not Yes and their song "Roundabout" for "Green and Grey"? I remember a french critic writing about the "Floydian" intro to "Green and Grey," and it's true that this long, atmospheric synth intro is somewhat reminiscent of the kind of atmosphere found in the intro to "Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UXircX3VdM&list=RD8UXircX3VdM&start_radio=1&t=157s


And speaking of Pink Floyd, I've already mentioned this elsewhere, but don't you think David Gilmour listened to "Higher Wall" because his guitar part on his superb track "High Hopes" reminds me quite a bit of "Higher Wall"...?

The acoustic guitar part between 2:50 to 3:40 in "High hopes" ?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jMlFXouPk8&ab_channel=PinkFloyd

Guitar solo in "Higher wall" between 2:50 to 3:12:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcRLECGLDyA&list=RDzcRLECGLDyA&start_radio=1


So if I was right about the long atmospheric intros of "Shine on your crazy diamond" and "Green and grey", and the guitars of "High hopes" and "Higher wall", we can say that NMA is certainly inspired by Pink Floyd but David Gilmour also "rips off" NMA ha ha!

oh and beat wise, as cthulhu's original post was pointing out I'd say the thrash metal drumbeat from "225"has been replicated in "get me out".

The intro from "Get me out" sounds quite similar from the one of Discharge "Decontrol":

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9C7o3WGMoE&list=RDu9C7o3WGMoE&start_radio=1

[Master Ray]

Yes, some songs sound like others.  'Pop Music' (by which I mean 'popular music' ie anything that's found a large audience and appeals to the young folk of the time) has been going on for decades now and I genuinely believe there's nothing new to be done anymore and hasn't been for a good long while.  Just reimaginings of old stuff.  And when you've got a band like NMA who have been going so long, well, it's entirely possible that they might regurgitate the odd riff or chord sequence from the past.

As for things like that Discharge tune (which, yes, sounds VERY much like Get Me Out )... I suspect that there's such a thing as 'subconscious plagiarism'?  That song came out ten years before Get Me Out.  NMA and Discharge were coming up at the same time, I have no idea whether they knew each other but they might well have heard each others early stuff.  I VERY much doubt that NMA remembered that tune and said 'hey let's rip that off!'  But certain songs can stick in the memory somewhat from your past without knowing exactly where they came from... 

(Fun story... I used to be in a band that rehearsed in a recording studio owned by an ex-member of Discharge who also produced a demo tape for us.  Neither the band or the demo tape were very good.    )

[Guillaume]

I really like the idea that David Gilmour borrowed from Justin and/or Moose on "Higher Wall" for some of the guitar parts on "High Hopes." It's like a musical "revenge" on Robert Heaton and/or Justin, who were inspired by the intro of "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" for the atmospheric opening of "Green and Grey"! Justin said years ago that the intro to the excellent "Falling" was inspired by/stolen from a Bo Diddley riff.