Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors

[Master Ray]

I'll also throw out some love for 'Sleepless', occasionally a bit ridiculous (but aren't all Argento's movies!) and I'd give 'The Card Player' a go, far from a classic, but a solid watch.  Still struggle with 'Mother Of Tears', I'm afraid, I'll give it another go one day...

I'd go through any Argento flick than yet another installment of another dreary US series of sequels...

[Guillaume]

I'll also throw out some love for 'Sleepless', occasionally a bit ridiculous (but aren't all Argento's movies!)

Indeed!
The train scene is one of Argento's great set-piece, really tense terrifying and with a great score from Goblin, and that film has also one of my favourite shots seen in his movies, but i won't spoil it for those who haven't watched "Sleepless" yet (one clue: the Swan Lake scene)! 

I'd give 'The Card Player' a go, far from a classic, but a solid watch.

Indeed. I like its cold modern, minimalist style, and the scenes shot in Roma are really beautiful...what a gorgeous city Roma is!!
I also like very much the leads, a compelling touching duo, especially the actress Stefania Rocca, which is really good, one of my favourite actresses seen in a Dario Argento movie (alongside Jennifer Connelly in "Phenomena" and Jessica Harper in "Suspiria"). The electro-techno soundtrack from Simonetti is catchy too.

"Mother of tears"...mixed bag...some good stuff in it...and some less good stuff. It's a frustrating movie in some ways because it doesn't repeat the grandioso style of "Suspiria" and "Inferno" and it feels rushed at times but i like most of its over the top killings and ideas, and for sure it is never boring!

Now...tomorrow will be a good day! "Opera" in Paris...

I'd go through any Argento flick than yet another installment of another dreary US series of sequels...

Count me in!
That's one of the things i like in Dario Argento, you feel that he puts his footprint, passion, heart, sincere stuff in his movies...even in his lesser, weaker movies you have here and there flashes of brio, personal stuff...a true Artist.

[cthulhu]

Count me in!
That's one of the things i like in Dario Argento, you feel that he puts his footprint, passion, heart, sincere stuff in his movies...even in his lesser, weaker movies you have here and there flashes of brio, personal stuff...a true Artist.

That's true and that's why i've got the book:"broken mirrors, broken minds" by maitland mcdonagh about his movies and art, ending like i think somwhat in the beginning of the 90's

If you like Argento's early thrillers like "the bird with the crystal plumage", "Deep red" and "Tenebre" you will probably like "Sleepless", it's probably more flawed and uneven than these early movies but it looks and sounds like "Argento's greatest hits"!
...
"Dracula"...i enjoyed it when i watched it on the very big screen, 3D screening, in its french theatrical release...but i'm probably in the minority It has a quite charming "old school" vibe, if you dig the old gothic italian movies and the old Hammer vampires movies, you will probably enjoy its atmosphere despite the cheesy/clumsy stuff here and there.

well, i will give sleepless a try, now it sounds good to me and after viewing deep red and opera recently for the first time in high definition, instead of a 3rd generation vhs copy or later then a dvd, it sounds like a good lonely beer and potatoe chips tv evening for me. these movies you have to watch either with a person who is also fond of it or alone. and dracula also sounds good to me, i like atmosphere and the old hammer stuff, i collect vincent price movies and maybe this could be a good double bill combination

[Guillaume]

I'm curious to read your opinion about the post-"Stendhal" Argento works Cthulhu when you will find copies of them   
 

That's true and that's why i've got the book:"broken mirrors, broken minds" by maitland mcdonagh about his movies and art, ending like i think somwhat in the beginning of the 90's

Maitland McDonagh did an update of her book in 2009 or 2010, if i remember well...it's a pretty good book indeed, very in depth, analytical.
I own lots of books about Argento...french, italian, spanish and english...this one is quite recommended especially because there are lots of interviews of Argento and his crew through the years and the movies, and also lots of cool pictures:



Also Argento himself released "Paura" ("Fear"), his own autobiography in 2014 and i've heard it is going to be translated in English soon...it's also very recommended for the people who like his works, because it's a very intimate and at times moving book where he speaks openly about his family, childhood, movies, Italy, etc.

[Master Ray]

I must get hold of that biography, and the Dario autobiography once it gets translated.

[Guillaume]

I must get hold of that biography, and the Dario autobiography once it gets translated.

you must! both are warmly recommended!


Just came back from Paris and my "Opera" screening...that film is unbelievable on the big screen...the last shots, with Betty the lead character talking to the lizard, and that gorgeous music over that scene and then the end credits...tears in my eyes!

[Master Ray]

Glad you had a great time, G. 

Something I've realised... I might have never seen his version of Dracula.  Yet I was sure that I had, at some point!  But i have utterly no memory of it.  Probably should look into that.

[cthulhu]

You really show some passion for this violent, sadistic movies;-) i like that and it's nice to hear that you had a good time.
it's always a wonderful happening, if you can watch movies on the big screens with a crowd which also appreciates the work on the screen. very different from normal cinema experiences.

so, when i looked for sleepless i found out that the german blu is heavily censored and it's also missing the director's cut (did he make that later as a different version or is ist just that they call the uncut version a director's cut?) but i stumbled upon an offer, which i couldn't resist and i had to buy four movies for about 22€.

it started with "four flies on grey velvet" in a double blu edition, with a 92min documentary, and a 28min analysis "autopsy of a fly". to have this movies in hd is like seeing them for the first time and i'm now very looking forward to it.

then i found "demon knight" with billy zane, which i really love to watch again. i found it a hell of a good "tales from the script" pulp-popcorn-funny-horror splatter and billy zane is insane in here.

then i found "voyage to the bottom of the sea" by irwin allen, which i haven't seen yet, but i also love those old monster movies, ray harryhausen and it's fantastic to have those also in high quality preserved.

and finally to round up that offer of four blus for 22€ i added "detective dee 1+2" by tsui hark. i loved the a chinese ghost story movies and i expect something similar to that.

so sleepless and dracula have to wait a little longer, but i'm onto the too

[Guillaume]

You really show some passion for this violent, sadistic movies;-)

It's not especially for the gory set-pieces, in fact the violent, torture scenes in "Opera" are more disturbing sad and harrowing than thrilling i must say  , it's mostly for the gorgeous camerawork, widescreen cinematography, use of locations and music that the film has to be seen in theaters for the greatest effect/impact. 

Gory, violent scenes in Argento's movies are a small part of the interest of his works, what is mostly captivating in his oeuvre in my opinion is his camerawork, his framing like painting, i also like very much his obsession for architecture/use of locations and the poetic tone of many of his movies and scenes, also the many "wandering" parts of his movies, when characters are walking for long minutes in streets, old houses and buildings, even in countryside (like in "Phenomena" or a few scenes of "Opera" and "Trauma") 
Also, despite not being considered like a great director's actors, i think he has offered many interesting parts to his leads, especially the actresses...Jennifer Connelly, Jessica Harper, Stefania Rocca, Daria Nicolodi (in "Deep Red"), Asia Argento (in "The Stendhal Syndrome" and "Trauma"), Marta Gastini...all of them are memorable ladies in his films.

I've heard about the cut German blu ray of "Sleepless", but if i remember well the TonFilm edition Blu Ray was uncensored...i own the french and italian dvds and both are uncut.

Something I've realised... I might have never seen his version of Dracula.  Yet I was sure that I had, at some point!  But i have utterly no memory of it.  Probably should look into that.

It's not a great film by any means, in fact it's a minor Argento movie, but it has its charms, i liked some of the nightime cinematography (the director of cinematography is Luciano "Suspiria" "Tenebre" Tovoli), the gothic old school vibe and the lead actress Marta Gastini who is a fine, charming Mina Harker. If you have to watch it, watch it in 3D, the film was shot in 3D and the 3D is used nicely in the movie.   

How would you rank Argento's movies Master Ray? From the best to the worst? 

I would try something like this...

My favourite for years!:

1..."Phenomena"

Very good:

"The Stendhal syndrome"
"The bird with the crystal plumage"
"Opera"
"Tenebre"
"Inferno"
"Four flies on grey velvet"
"Suspiria"
"Deep red"
"The Card Player"

Good:

"trauma"
"Cat'o'nine tails"
"Do you like Hitchcock?" (tv)
"Jenifer" (tv)

Not great but enjoyable enough/ok movies:

"Mother of tears"
"Sleepless"
"Pelts" (tv)
"The black cat" (in "Two evil eyes")
"Dracula"
"Giallo"

Ambitious but mostly failed movie despite some nice things in it...:

21..."Phantom of the opera"

[cthulhu]

You really show some passion for this violent, sadistic movies;-)

It's not especially for the gory set-pieces, in fact the violent, torture scenes in "Opera" are more disturbing sad and harrowing than thrilling i must say  , it's mostly for the gorgeous camerawork, widescreen cinematography, use of locations and music that the film has to be seen in theaters for the greatest effect/impact. 

Gory, violent scenes in Argento's movies are a small part of the interest of his works, what is mostly captivating in his oeuvre in my opinion is his camerawork, his framing like painting, i also like very much his obsession for architecture/use of locations and the poetic tone of many of his movies and scenes...

i purely meant that ironic, referring to the question asked in this thread, what other people on the board might think about this topic, so no need to somehow justify that fascination, again not meaning that you did that.
i understand your fascination and argento is one of my favourite directors too, but his movies have a long history here in germany, being censored to death or even just forbidden to watch, when i remember it right. so the argument from the outside, how something that violent and brutal, can be seen as art is always a part of it.

what do you think of haute tension? i think alexandre aja has some great potential and delivers terryfying work. even piranha was grat fun to watch.
and by the way, do you know capitain flam?;-)

[Guillaume]

his movies have a long history here in germany, being censored to death or even just forbidden to watch, when i remember it right. so the argument from the outside, how something that violent and brutal, can be seen as art is always a part of it.

Not only in Germany but in others countries like USA, UK, France...his movies have been edited/censored...for example for a long time "Deep Red" lost 30 minutes of its running time in its french theatrical and vhs release!
Also "Phenomena" was cut in its french theatrical release in 1985, "Opera" lost some scenes and especially its poetic grass/mountain/lizard finale when it was released direct on vhs here in the early 90's, etc!
I think that his movies are not for everyone of course, they can be violent bloody nasty and disturbing but violence often isn't so realistic in his movies (aside of a few movies like the raw, blunt "The Stendhal syndrome") and there is also, like i said, some true beauty to be admired in his works!

Alexandre Aja seems to be a cool guy but i don't especially like his movies..."Mirrors" and his last one were ok, though...he remade "The hills have eyes"...i like very much the director of the original one, Wes Craven.

And "Capitaine Flam"? I remember the cartoon, when i was a kid! good childhood memories.

argento is one of my favourite directors too

My other favourite director working in "horror movies and thrillers" is John Carpenter...who is himself a big fan of Dario Argento and also a friend of him. Carpenter's movies are more "easy" to watch than Argento's films for sure, Carpenter's movies usually aren't too graphic on the violence, the blood...

[cthulhu]

well, i do like haute tension very much and i found his remake a very good one. it's always a difficult thing with remakes. like the texas chainsaw massacre remake is not bad, but also why bother when you have this brilliant original.
piranha is like total popcorn splatter cinema and sometimes i like to get into that, see all the beautiful, dumb people gettin' slaughtered and his remake of maniac, with the hobbit guy which name i just forgot is disturbing. i liked that and i want to give it another try sometimes, it was a rental.

yes, love carpenter, love his own scores, the music and my favourite horror-monster films is the thing. and also th eremake again, wasn't that bad as i thought it was, it's like a prequel and it has its moments, but nothing compared to the tension and beautiful special effects of rob bottin.
now i do think that you and master ray must also love david cronenberg!? never saw a bad movie by him and i'm thrilled that finally dead ringers will be released on blu later this year. i was searching for that movie for a long time.

the story behing captain flam is that i t was my first tv-experience, it's called captain future here and i was so pleased to get it on dvd. but then i realised that the german version was cut like 25% and when watching it again it was obvious, but as a child you don't recognize such things and then i ordered the french version cpt. flam, to get to see the whole storys. i must say, that the german version is so much better/different because of the ultimate brilliant soundtrack it has. it just blows my mind. the french soundtrack is also fine, but you know, childhood memorys;-)

i want to get the "new" carpenter music album, he released like a year or two ago. do you know that album?

[Master Ray]

Blimey, so many questions to respond to!  I've got some chilli on the go at the moment, I'll digest that and then all your questions...

Just one I'll answer (because it was the last one asked!)... yes that new John Carpenter music is well worth a listen.  Two albums in fact, Lost Themes Vols 1 and 2.  You can totally imagine them scoring a John Carpenter classic... here's a favourite, 'Obsidian'... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OKXEEMtves

Be back to you later...

[Guillaume]

yes, love carpenter, love his own scores, the music and my favourite horror-monster films is the thing. and also th eremake again, wasn't that bad as i thought it was, it's like a prequel and it has its moments, but nothing compared to the tension and beautiful special effects of rob bottin.
now i do think that you and master ray must also love david cronenberg!? never saw a bad movie by him and i'm thrilled that finally dead ringers will be released on blu later this year. i was searching for that movie for a long time.

I'm a big fan of Carpenter...like for Argento, i love the director and i love the man!
Carpenter's style is very different from Argento's one, he is less "flashy" visually but Carpenter's movies are timeless, i can watch them endlessly..."Halloween", "Christine", "Starman", "In the mouth of madness" and the others...classics!
I agree that "the thing"'s remake released in 2011 wasn't bad, it was decent...but in the end it was kind of useless because the Carpenter movie was already very accomplished.

I like very much the David Cronenberg's movies he made in the 70's and 80's, from "Shivers", "Rabid" to "Dead ringers" included. After that, i'm less interested by his movies, especially the last ones ("History of violence", "Eastern promises", "Cosmopolis", "Maps to the stars"), which leave me cold/indifferent. But "The brood", "Videodrome", "Scanners"...very good...i'm a big fan of his Stephen King movie "The dead zone", especially because the casting is so good, Walken is genius in that movie...the ending among others scenes, incredibly moving.

[Master Ray]

OK!  Too many questions to answer in one post, so I'll take them one by one over the next couple of days...

Guillaume, you asked about ranking Mr Argento's films, so let's see what you make if this little lot... I'm sure I've missed something out here... 

Must watch...
Suspiria
Inferno
Phenomena
Opera
Deep Red
 Tenebrae

Certainly worth a look...
Sleepless
The Stendhal Syndrome
Four Flies on Grey Velvet
The Card Player
 The Bird with the Crystal Plumage
The Cat o' Nine Tails

Proceed with caution, but you might like it better than I did...

Trauma
Mother of Tears
The Phantom Of The Opera

Never seen...

Giallo (I did have it lined up on Netflix, but they deleted it before I got around to watching it...)
Masters of Horror (TV Series) (2 episodes)
Do You Like Hitchcock? (TV Movie)

And, once again, casual readers to this thread will say 'what the hell are these three idiots going on about...'