Author Topic: I believe in vengeance, or do I?  (Read 3176 times)

peternotbaldyet

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Re: I believe in vengeance, or do I?
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2013, 10:19:37 AM »
Hi Toronto. I have often wondered whether the band would have crossed over completely into the mainstream without this song, or perhaps without the infamous chorus. I think it branded them and if you are not interested in lyrics, it would be very easy to misinterpret the song. Having said that, Christian Militia and Spirit of the Falklandsin particular were still songs that swam against the tide of popular opinion in the early 80's. Also on a different note, The Intense Humming of Evil on The Holy Bible by the Manics is a very powerful holocaust song. I think that whatever keeps that subject in the public conciousness isfor the good. Even the deniers raise awareness that it happened.

Red

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Re: I believe in vengeance, or do I?
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2013, 11:09:31 AM »
Personally I do believe in vengeance and when the time comes to deal with it I will.

The reason I'm saying this because of something that happened to me at a scooter rally in July 2012

I manage a Lambretta scooter racing team in my spare time and we've been going 3 years.

When we started we had a young lad racing for us and in the first year he did okay but went downhill rapidly in the second year,he was given plenty of warnings and chances but young lads being young lads he though he knew better,so i got the team together and told him that he one more chance to get his act together and sort himself out as he was becoming a danger to himself and other riders on the track.
His last opportunity came and nothing changed so i told him that it was over and that was it.

fast forward a month or so and I'm at a national scooter rally in Lincoln and wake up on the Sunday morning to find my Lambretta vandalised, every panel sctratched and gouged.

Over 4000 people there and a couple of thousand scooters and mine was the only one touched.

He was there along with his club and family,I have no proof....yet but it looks as though his father and friend are the main culprit,there's a lot of circumstantial evidence but nothing concrete.

I had to get the scooter reprayed so got this on it



This is what happened to it!!!!

















It may seem trivial to you but I've been into the scooter scene since 1984 and this thing shouldn't happen for whatever reason.

Friends on the scene and also people I've never met were so disgusted with this they set up a donations page to help me get the scooter resprayed etc and I received over £3500 in 2 weeks, which restored my faith in the human race.

So do I believe in vengeance?

yes I do



Looks like this now  :)

Is is a crime to believe in something different?

I meant what I said at the time that I said it

Stoney

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Re: I believe in vengeance, or do I?
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2013, 02:20:48 PM »
Ironontour the new paint job is top drawer! Hopefully it'll spur you onto better results and a big two fingers up at the scrote who keyed the old paint job.........

As for Vengeance keeping NMA off Later..., I can't see it. Since they did Tube and Top Of The Pops after it...... However, they were "awkward" from Auntie Beeb's point of view, with playing live anf the great "ONLY STUPID BASTARDS USE HEROIN" shirt scandal...... Maybe THAT is the issue at the Later... offices?
Individuationem humanae naturae dignitatem conservare velimus.
Nec magis, nec minus.

francois

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Re: I believe in vengeance, or do I?
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2013, 05:45:08 PM »

Anyway, it remains an important song in a gig set, full of energy, received by the public with great pleasure.
 
 :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJFzqvZDUH8

Cheers,
François


Shush

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Re: I believe in vengeance, or do I?
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2013, 08:18:36 PM »
What a wonderful do that was at Rockers last year. Hope there are going to be as many people again this Xmas. Looks like you filmed that from the balcony francois ? did you film it when Stoney got on shoulders ? remembering a cheer went through the crowd when he went up. Would like to see that again  :)

Stoney

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Re: I believe in vengeance, or do I?
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2013, 08:51:31 PM »
What a wonderful do that was at Rockers last year. Hope there are going to be as many people again this Xmas. Looks like you filmed that from the balcony francois ? did you film it when Stoney got on shoulders ? remembering a cheer went through the crowd when he went up. Would like to see that again  :)
I had actually forgotten that! =) just made me smile the hugest grin in ages remembering that!  ;D
Individuationem humanae naturae dignitatem conservare velimus.
Nec magis, nec minus.

Shush

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Re: I believe in vengeance, or do I?
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2013, 08:55:49 PM »
Remember nudging the missus telling her ,look over there, she did pass comment on how sorry she felt for whoever was underneath !!, after all, you is a big lad  ;D

francois

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Re: I believe in vengeance, or do I?
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2013, 10:51:21 PM »
What a wonderful do that was at Rockers last year. Hope there are going to be as many people again this Xmas. Looks like you filmed that from the balcony francois ? did you film it when Stoney got on shoulders ? remembering a cheer went through the crowd when he went up. Would like to see that again  :)

Got Stoney on shoulders of course....Coming tomorow for your pleasure.  8)


Stoney

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Re: I believe in vengeance, or do I?
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2013, 09:57:22 AM »
Remember nudging the missus telling her ,look over there, she did pass comment on how sorry she felt for whoever was underneath !!, after all, you is a big lad  ;D
16 stone n more to love!  :D
Individuationem humanae naturae dignitatem conservare velimus.
Nec magis, nec minus.

jackroadkill

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Re: I believe in vengeance, or do I?
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2013, 11:27:07 AM »
As someone with a deal of Jewish blood, then yes, in this case I do believe in vengeance.  There are still people alive in the world who were complicit in the Holocaust and I do belive that they should be held to account.  Murder is murder, genocide is genocide, no matter how long ago it took place and justice should be served.

For me, this song carries a lot of weight.  This doesn't mean, however, that I believe that the perpetrators of the Holocaust should neccessarily be put to death, or that in the wider scheme of things that vengeance always solves the issue.

Shush

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Re: I believe in vengeance, or do I?
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2013, 12:36:21 PM »
With you on that Jack. I would find it hard to get much pleasure watching old men in their 80s and 90s being put to death, but at the same time, it bothers me that such men on their death beds can think to themselves, I got away with it. At any age, they should be held to account for their actions.

Not wanting to dwell too much on the Nazi holocaust, I have to say, for me it kind of validates the song to me now knowing it was inspired by JS watching a documentary on Claus Barbie. While being responsible for around 14,000 deaths, which would have been a relatively small tally for SS commanders in the east, the Butcher of Lyon was an active sadist who took great pleasure in his work, not just passing on the orders, but getting involved with the torture, not just of the Jewish, but also the French in his prison system. What was more surprising, after the war, the Americans who recognized his abilities in seeking out groups of people  employed him for anti-Communist work, and gave him full protection. I seem to remember reading somewhere that after he emigrated to Bolivia, it is suspected he may have been involved with the Americans in the capture of Che Guevara, as part of continued anti- communist activity in South America. Understandably, when the French found out where he was, they wanted him. It took many years to get him back to France, a man who was indeed protected by money and powerful friends.

MrCJMiller

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Re: I believe in vengeance, or do I?
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2013, 10:04:36 PM »
They played it in Wroclaw last week; as it happened I had visited Auschwitz-Birkenau that very morning.  I have never sang along with as much vigour in my life.

Simon73

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Re: I believe in vengeance, or do I?
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2013, 09:48:09 PM »
I said what I said at the time when I said it..............or something like that.......u know the song right?

Brian-DC

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Re: I believe in vengeance, or do I?
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2013, 02:16:08 PM »
I remember the days around the time when we finally captured and killed Osama Bin Ladan.  There were comments on the web from around the world about how America was "overreacting" with celebrations in the street and things of that sort.  I wasn't one of those that went that far, but I have to admit, I was VERY happy and relieved that we got the guy. 

I'm basically a pacifist.  I'm not one that seeks vengeance or ever sees violence as the answer.  I think what comes around goes around.  But in this particular case, I believed in "getting the bastard" 100% and had a definite feeling of satisfaction and closure that came out of his death. 

So in a way, this song took on another meaning for me after the events of 911.   

Brian-DC

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Re: I believe in vengeance, or do I?
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2013, 02:38:01 PM »
Another even that made me "believe" in vengeance was a few years after the 911 attack.  Around Washington DC, there was a sniper that was randomly killing people who were just going about the daily lives.  At a gas station, at a home improvement center, etc.  Everyone in the area was terrified.  I saw mothers cradling their babies and running into grocery stores.... because you never knew when the next attack would come.  They killed 10 people.  It affected everyone around here.  Was going to a record store to see what new albums just came out really worth the risk? 

One day my wife and I had a wedding to go to and on the way there we passed the gas station where one person was killed a few days before.  On the way back, we passed a restaurant where he had just killed another one.  Who knows, we might have been driving right next to them and had never known. 

It was certainly an interesting time but I never want to go through anything like that again.

They finally caught the two fuckers that were responsible (they captured them alive) but I would have been just as happy to have seen them taken down in a hail of gunfire.

So yea, I believe.