Author Topic: The Love of Carnival  (Read 4029 times)

Master Ray

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Re: The Love of Carnival
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2015, 09:06:39 PM »
Fireworks Night. Possibly Justin's best song ever!?

It's certainly up there with the best of the best.
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jez pike

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Re: The Love of Carnival
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2015, 08:41:17 AM »
I've rediscovered Carnival recently,and there are some great tracks on it,i have fond memories because I did 7 gigs travelling around Germany and had a great time,i even started enjoying Honigdieb,the support act,great fun.
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Master Ray

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Re: The Love of Carnival
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2018, 09:42:33 PM »

Seeing as nobody had responded to this thread since 2015 (and it does seem to be somewhat the fashion to reactivate old and forgotten threads these days) how does anyone feel about 'Carnival' in the cold light of 2018?  There are a few new regular posters... what's your opinion?

As I might have said before, it wasn't a favourite upon first release, but it's grown on me over the years.  I now rate it highly, not least because of 'Too Close To The Sun' and 'Fireworks Night', two tracks that have become absolute favourites.

What do you lot reckon? 

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Ghosttrain

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Re: The Love of Carnival
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2018, 09:18:54 AM »
Love Carnival..................Too Close To The Sun one of my fave NMA songs

Pol

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Re: The Love of Carnival
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2018, 01:18:55 PM »
I wonder what I said back then , I need to look lol . Immediate thots I like it , i need to listen again before a detailed opinion
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cthulhu

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Re: The Love of Carnival
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2018, 04:11:48 PM »
i remember that i drove on the release date 40km to buy the album, went back to my car which was parked in an underground parking lot and couldn't wait to put the cd in and then water began...i was trhrilled instantly but also felt that the sound was a little bit strange and i couldn't get the rythm and melody but i somehow liked it, then the grooving beat of bd3 began, an instant love. prayer flags was too strange for me at that time, didn't feel it and skipped it and carlisle road was too slow, i wanted more.
red earth than was gigantic, this build up, the tension, the lyrics, just wow. too close to the sund, just wonderful but bluebeat again was interesting but it took a long time until i fell in love with it. another imperial day was great immediately again followed by a "i don't really know" ls43 and then island...i thought hell yeah, let the bass go wild and loose, i loved that bassline and nelsons playing so much on that track. fireworks night again was a little too sad for impatient consumption needs.

i love that album and meanwhile i love all of the songs. some more, because they meet my needs and some less but with a great respect which grew by hearing them over time differently.
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Guillaume

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Re: The Love of Carnival
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2019, 04:42:04 PM »
Nice review from a metal site:

http://www.metalstorm.net/pub/review.php?review_id=1670


And another, more mixed one on rateyourmusic:


rupertlenz Aug 12 2013 ▼ 3.00 stars

Why the "low" rating ?

I've had mixed feelings about "Carnival" since the very first listen,
and they haven't changed although I came to appreciate the album more in the meantime.
It's far from being a "bad" one (though my primary rating
was very low),
for NMA are too good a band to produce a genuine stinker.
Too good and, also, too honest in their approach.

But, let me tell you, to me, it's all about good songs.
I had become a fan with the underapprechiated "Eight"
and started buying their backcatalogue backwards,
finding many many great songs, even on their earlier albums
(with a very few exceptions I'm not into "Punk" at all,
so I'm preferring their stuff from "Thunder and Consolation" onwards,
but there's also a lot of class to be found on its predecessors !)
and on b-sides collections.

"Eight" - my favourite to this day - had the reputation of being a "weaker one",
partly due to low budget production (as opposed to "Strange Brotherhood")
and its lack of "straight in the face heaviness" in favour of subtlety and sheer songwriting-craft.
Robert Heaton was gone and Justin Sullivan, remaining the only original member,
somewhat needed to prove that they still "had it",
so this album rocks heavier again
and is aimed at satisfying their long term fans' expectations more than at developing further
from where the natural process had taken them to.

And that's the problem with it.
I'm not one of those who want a new album to sound
exactly like previous things only because I love them.
I didn't want Genesis to do another "Selling England by the Pound" in the 80s,
no matter how much I'm preferring that album to "Invisible Touch".
And having NMA rocking harder again was in no way something I thought of as being disappointing.

But...
the power was not there.
Don't get me wrong, the performances are all very good,
the production/sound is crisp and they still had the power to rock out,
but, during that time, there was no power left at all for writing the songs that were needed to meet that attitude !

No good songs ? How can Roopie say this ? Doesn't he listen ? Isn't "Water" a great opener ?
Isn't "Red Earth" a moody, melodic evocation into wonderful observations, exploding like a bomb at its fierce ending ?
Aren't "Too Close to the Sun" and "Island" supposed to be "NMA classics" ?
What the hell is he complaining about when listening to
energetic rockers like "BD3" or "Another Imperial Day" ?
How can he say there was "no power left" ???

Because, in one way or another, he had heard it all before,
from the same band, and he had heard it better.
I'm listening hard, actually. There are things so obvious
they don't escape my ears !

The power that I'm talking about is the power to create new tunes
and the only thing new about those songs
- apart from the lyrics - are unnecessary twists that had been added in order to make things more interesting.
I cannot listen to "Red Earth" without thinking of "Queen of my Heart".
It doesn't help that the ending is "new".
I cannot listen to "BD3" or, in fact, most of the other tracks,
without thinking "well, on Lost Songs they'd have had their rightful place, but on a new album they are bound to disappoint me".
The grooves, the riffs, the melodies...
all stolen from themselves ;-) !!!

"Water" is a promising good start, but even "Too Close to the Sun" - a great one in concert, as is "Island" ! - sounds like a rehash of old ideas, familiar effects, NMA recycled.

If I hadn't heard any other NMA-album before,
"Carnival" would have impressed me a lot and won me over, I'm sure.
If you don't know any other NMA-album this may be a good place to start and get to know them.
Everything is in here.
And it's pretty good.
It may even sound like a "best of" !

And that's the problem for me.
It's pretty good for a recycling-album with the band focussing on their "rocking hard-edge" -
hence yours truly having improved his rating to a three stars.
And it's not tuneless. Or bleak.
You can be very happy with it and I don't have a problem,
it's good music from start to finish.

But tell me what you want it's a recycling-album, still,
and that's not enough for me,
cause I had waited for a new one.
I had to wait until "High" until I finally got it,
so "Carnival" remains a transitional outcome
to please all those people who like to hear NMA in a familiar way and have them rocking...

Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all...
as it's far better to listen to NMA recycled than to Bon Jovi doing another "Living on a Prayer" or "Bryan Adams revamped Vol.30" any day.
But there's a slight taste of disapointment to sour my listening pleasure whenever I decide to play it,
cause me... I know... they can do better.
They can do far better.
So, no matter how good this may sound to you,
this wasn't "their best in 15 years",
they had always given their best before...
you ought to love everything else if you love this,
so don't wait nor hesitate, go and buy the albums where
most of those ideas have come from !

LOVE; Roop
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 04:53:40 PM by Guillaume »

Johnz

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Re: The Love of Carnival
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2019, 07:05:29 PM »
They can do far better.
So, no matter how good this may sound to you,
this wasn't "their best in 15 years",
they had always given their best before...
you ought to love everything else if you love this,
so don't wait nor hesitate, go and buy the albums where
most of those ideas have come from !

Carnival is one of my favourite NMA albums. However, most people would agree with you and the Facebook fan group members recently rated it their least favourite album, with Blue Beat the least favourite song (somewhat ironically, seemingly unwilling to find something new to fall in love with).

I know that it's pointless to argue about taste. An album either works for you or it doesn't. However, I find it interesting that you think Carnival is a rehashing of old ground because I don't hear that at all. (Personally , I felt that Eight was revisiting The Ghost of Cain era in some ways (but not in a bad way), maybe because of the similarities behind their creation). To me Carnival was a departure from their old sound and spirit, with the anger of the earlier albums giving way to a new sombreness. It felt new and different and I think that many people didn't appreciate that. Admittedly, it did take quite a few listens to get into and I still remember the moment I actually 'got' it. It's a great mood piece just like Between Dog And Wolf and Navigating By The Stars and I love to play those albums from beginning to end. It's probably no coincidence that they are usually the ones that top the 'least favourite' polls.

I consider myself lucky, that I genuinely like all sides and eras of NMA. In many ways their recent albums are more relevant to me than the early classics that first got me into them. I don't feel that way with most other bands from my youth so I do understand the sense of disappointment that people feel as bands mature.




Guillaume

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Re: The Love of Carnival
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2019, 07:45:45 AM »
Carnival is one of my favourite NMA albums. However, most people would agree with you and the Facebook fan group members recently rated it their least favourite album, with Blue Beat the least favourite song (somewhat ironically, seemingly unwilling to find something new to fall in love with).
However, I find it interesting that you think Carnival is a rehashing of old ground because I don't hear that at all.

It's not my opinion, myself i like "Carnival" overall and among others the song "Blue Beat".  ;)
It's just a review i've found rather interesting on rateyourmusic that i've posted here.
If one album is "rehashing old ground" in NMA's career it's rather "Winter", in my opinion.


To me Carnival was a departure from their old sound and spirit, with the anger of the earlier albums giving way to a new sombreness. It felt new and different and I think that many people didn't appreciate that. Admittedly, it did take quite a few listens to get into and I still remember the moment I actually 'got' it. It's a great mood piece just like Between Dog And Wolf and Navigating By The Stars and I love to play those albums from beginning to end.

https://board.newmodelarmy.org/index.php?topic=7725.0

I agree with you...yes, indeed, BDAW is also a great mood piece, NMA sounding different here with mixed results in 2013 among the fanbase  :)...and "Navigating by the stars" is probably Justin's best album, his masterpiece, as good or maybe better than "Thunder and consolation".  :)


(Personally , I felt that Eight was revisiting The Ghost of Cain era in some ways (but not in a bad way), maybe because of the similarities behind their creation).

I remember Justin saying himself in a french interview around "Eight"s release that this album was a bit like "The ghost of Cain", indeed...because it was a "straightforward, direct/to the point" album like "GOC" was...and unlike "Strange Brotherhood" which was a weird, experimental and not so accomplished album, according to Justin. 
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 08:00:55 AM by Guillaume »

cthulhu

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Re: The Love of Carnival
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2019, 10:36:21 AM »
Interesting to see the different opinions here and the roop-review of carnival has its points, but to me i see i totally different.
He wrote:
Quote
The grooves, the riffs, the melodies...
all stolen from themselves ;-)
I think that is just wrong, but how to prove that?
He is complaining about, that he seemed to hear old tunes being "recycled" in the tunes, but that is just a very subjective opinion and though it is expressed in an objective way. I think i know what he means and i sometimes have these ideas too, when something reminds me of something, but to say the album is powerless and worse "idea-less" doesn't fit for me one second.

Theres one thing, which i wondered about for a time and its a good place to bring it now here:
I somehow feel that " eyes get used to the darkness" is kind of a very new version of "no rest"
I have the feeling that it is a deliberate thing. The drum pattern, the theme (guilt) really reminds me always of "no rest" and also how the intro is played live.
What do you think?

And i love carnival :-)
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Guillaume

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Re: The Love of Carnival
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2019, 01:15:14 PM »
I somehow feel that " eyes get used to the darkness" is kind of a very new version of "no rest"

Indeed. Also "Die trying" (which i like) sounds and thematically evokes "Higher wall". That's why i think "Winter" musically at times has a an air of "déjà vu" in NMA's career, a rehashing feel. Also I'm with the rateyourmusic's reviewer when he writes that he likes more subtlety in NMA's music than the "straight in the face heaviness"...among others that's why, like him, i liked "Eight".
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 01:21:04 PM by Guillaume »

cthulhu

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Re: The Love of Carnival
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2019, 01:51:58 PM »
Quote
Also "Die trying" (which i like) sounds and thematically evokes "Higher wall".
I agree and also about your description of the album Winter, but not the word rehashing. To me it sounded deliberatly also very stron with die trying, because it also thematically like higher wall. So i think this is intentional.
And personally i like and need those differences of sublety and straight in the face and think this has always been a part of them.
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Master Ray

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Re: The Love of Carnival
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2019, 06:39:18 PM »

Aw, this is the mark of a great band... years and years after what's often regarded as one of their 'lesser' albums, we've all still got passionate opinions about it...   :D
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Johnz

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Re: The Love of Carnival
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2019, 08:29:03 PM »
It's not my opinion, myself i like "Carnival" overall and among others the song "Blue Beat".  ;)
It's just a review i've found rather interesting on rateyourmusic that i've posted here.

I Ah, I missed that somehow, sorry!

Guillaume

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Re: The Love of Carnival
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2020, 06:58:54 PM »
One of the best tracks of CARNIVAL edited on the gorgeous visuals of a classic italian movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP9cqGJ9D8o

BD3 never seems to get any mention. I love that track. Great rhythm. Really benefits from being played loud.

Yes it's a great track! the music, the lyrics and the cool video they shot for this song, in 2005/2006.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 08:55:00 PM by Guillaume »