Author Topic: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?  (Read 4003 times)

Amandistan

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Re: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2015, 08:38:41 PM »
It does have a connection.  It left bitter feelings on the entire island.  He murdered English people and scots as well.
His terrorized his own people.

I just hope to God, NMA is not named in admiration of this bastard.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 08:49:02 PM by Amandistan »
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wychbury

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Re: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2015, 09:22:09 PM »
And what happens if they are named in admiration of this person?

Amandistan

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Re: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2015, 09:29:39 PM »
I still like them but I read in an interview that the band was named because it's simply a good name. Sullivan is an irish name too.
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Sheena

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Re: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2015, 10:16:55 AM »
There is no one truth.  Even with facts in place there are interpretations and perspectives.  This goes for any subject you care to name.
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Spudthemariner

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Re: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2015, 10:53:01 AM »
There is no one truth.  Even with facts in place there are interpretations and perspectives.  This goes for any subject you care to name.

Very well put!
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Heno

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Re: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2015, 11:54:59 AM »
i've got one resounding fact


cromwell was an evil evil man who was prepared to carry out the orders of the crown against irish catholics. there is nothing positive that can be said about him. there may be facts but they should never be used as some sort of respect since such a despot does not deserve it.

and frankly what cromwell did set the scene for atrocities against catholics until recent times. have a look at this. fully verified admissions outlining the level of support British intelligence and occupying forces gave to loyalist paramilitaries in norther ireland with the single purpose of killing catholics.

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10431974/]http://www.thejournal.ie/what-we-learned-from-collusion-documentary-2165163-Jun2015/[/url

not sure if you can get the player working where you are - [url]http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10431974/


i wonder when this will get into the history books as the real interpretation

you think you're alive motherfucker?
you're just the walking fucking dead.

Amandistan

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Re: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2015, 02:51:55 PM »
The Irish opinion is completely different. I just watched a doc about Cromwell in Wexford.
It was horrendous. 

It seems every discussion about irish/ english history gets so passionate.
Since most here are English you often hear one side.

In Ireland comparing someone to Cromwell is a horrible insult.
The Irish still say "the curse of Cromwell upon you" as a horrible insult.

I understand why the IRA topic was so passionate but facts prove that this was an evil man.
if the irish still hate him so much to this day it means he impacted them horribly.
I believe I read that he wiped out a fith of the population and sold others into slavery.
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ldopas

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Re: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2015, 04:58:29 PM »
People have written here that history is seen/warped through the eyes of those who see it from their viewpoint. I completely agree with them.

There seems to be some sort of undercurrent here that because someone here has heard from one perspective how beastly we English are it must be true. I've got news, Cromwell died over 350 years ago, I'm pretty sure most of us were not alive then. However the IRA to me is over for now, and that was like yesterday.

How far do we go back, shall I write a diatribe on Norse Activity around the 800s and the raping, looting and taking of slaves from here, and hold the Scandinavians evil?

I'm not sure what this is about. Bash us all around the heads until we agree we are all bad people because Cromwell came from here?

Amandistan

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Re: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2015, 05:12:37 PM »
I never once said anything negative about the English of today. Never once. Some chose to perceive it that way. I was told as a kid by my grandfather how the British marched into Scotland and terrorised our ancestors. They did the same to our Irish ancestors.
How on earth do you want me to side with the British puritans?

It's fact that they terrorized people hundreds of years ago. And even more recently.
But so did many other countries in the world. It's not a criticism of the English.
I am in Cronwall and very much enjoy the people here.

If someone criticized the treatment of the native Americans I would agree.
I am from one of the most critisized nations in the world and I would not take criticism personally.

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Amandistan

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Re: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2015, 05:14:06 PM »
The IRA is a different subject.  And era. 
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jackroadkill

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Re: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2015, 06:06:58 PM »
This serves to illustrate that history, although unchangeable, may be shown in different lights dependent on who is doing the telling of the story.

Amandistan, I'm not being confrontational towards you, or rubbishing what you have been told when I say this: you have been given one view of a huge slice of European history from one source.  The view is highly subjective, (rightly or wrongly) biased, incomplete and very emotional.

Oliver Cromwell, be he saint or sinner, did not just decide one day to invade Ireland off the bat, persecute the Catholic people that he found there and set the course for the suppression and denigration of the Irish people for centuries.  It was all part of a much, much more complicated and turbulent period in European history; I say European because it involved the quarrels, religious intolerances, successions and political manoeuvrings of each of the major (and several of the minor) states whose influence was waxing and waning in Europe (and also in the New World) at the time.

If you would like to read further into this issue, I can suggest Neal Stephenson's Quicksilver trilogy, which is a historical fiction,  accurate where points of historical fact occur, that will keep you going for months, showing you in minute detail how turbulent, violent and confusing those times were.

Amandistan

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Re: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2015, 06:57:08 PM »
Can anyone suggest any documentaries on the subject?  I just don't have time to read up on the subject. A 1 to 3 hour film, i would have time to watch.
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jackroadkill

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Re: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2015, 07:12:00 PM »
Three hours just isn't enough time to even scratch the surface, I'm afraid.

Master Ray

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Re: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2015, 07:42:00 PM »
A, to use an American expression, you are asking for the 'Cliff Notes' (did I get that right?) version of history when you ask for a brief documentary to explain it all to you... this is a contentious issue, made more so when anyone who was actually there is a few centuries dead.  Acres of academic papers and historical research have been devoted to it.  I admit that I'm not historically educated enough to understand it all and I bow down to the wisdom of anyone smarter than me.  In fact, this thread has given me some ideas about further reading!

Jeez, everything that is happening nowadays is re-written pretty much as it happens thanks to technological wonders... how we can we possibly wade through the reams of conjecture and opinion and dusty, tattered old scripts to reach a 100% TRUE opinion?



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ldopas

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Re: Why is Oliver Cromwell regarding as a hero in England?
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2015, 08:01:05 PM »
Three hours just isn't enough time to even scratch the surface, I'm afraid.

How true my friend.

And isn't it so "modern" these days for people to want to get the prĂ©cis, watch the 1/2 hour film or have someone twitter it than actually do some reading and research!  ::)