BETWEEN DOG AND WOLF, 2 years on... how do you feel about it?

[Coolea]

Always going to be a special album to me - was dragged along to a gig a couple years back to see NMA. Knew of them over the years, more an awareness really, couldn't have named one tune though or album.

I thought they were outstanding & immediately fell in love with them & was hooked, the show was Between Dog & Wolf Heavy which I bought that night along with the magazine. Two years later own all the albums & live ones ( I try not to dwell on the fact a large chunk of my life I missed out on them but ce la vie, Im 40 btw)

I still go back to it a lot, good solid effort from a band trying to branch out a bit & not become a cliche or dwell in the past.

[Master Ray]

Coolea, if no-one has welcomed you to this Forum already... welcome!   

[Unruh]

The lyrics seem a little more pessimistic than usual, though that could just be my own reflection. In virtually every New Model Army song there's some light and hope. There are a few songs on BDAW where there is no escape. There's an occasional fatalism in there and, to me, that's something new to New Model Army. But I still come away from BDAW feeling empowered and restored. For all their explorations of dark places, New Model Army have never been a downer of a band. That's one of many things I love about them. And in answer to Justin's question I come to see a man fly, not fall.

[Simon73]

God 2 years. time passes definitely TOO fast for me. anyway. good like it but not comparable with older ones. not even the most recent ones such as Carnival, Today is a Good Day let say the last ones in the last 10 years. some of the choruses are too cheesy too poppish for my taste.

[LCG]

It's brilliant.
I listened to it every day for about 3 or 4 months solid.
Just listened to it again after a considerable break and I honestly think it sounds even better!

[Rusco]

Love it so much.

During the day of its release, it was definitely something you couldn't expect to happen. I mean it wasn't so self evident. Totally charged me the season my friend's son died in a car accident and it was late autumn coming. Right before the first BDAW tour to start.

They haven't done anything similar earlier and I think it was a change that probably will be referred of to later on.

[Anna Woman von NRW]

Coolea, if no-one has welcomed you to this Forum already... welcome!   

Ditto. Hello 

Interesting that there is a view that the lyrice are pessimistic/depressing ( I paraphrase). I don't really get that feeling myself. Reflective and honest - yes but not a downer.

[Dominic]

Interesting that there is a view that the lyrice are pessimistic/depressing ( I paraphrase). I don't really get that feeling myself. Reflective and honest - yes but not a downer.

Angry Planet is pretty pessimistic with it's Malthusian theme (bordering into KJ territory!) and whilst I consider it the same period it's from a different album.

The planet is no angrier than all the stardust we marvel over. It's just a matter of distance.

BDAW has a broad range of themes for a typical NMA album.  All the greatest arts of work usually cover Nature, God or Love - and for me JS is strongest lyrically in these areas.  Indeed, some argue they're all the same thing and in many ways they are right.

[Coolea]

Coolea, if no-one has welcomed you to this Forum already... welcome!   

Thank you Mr.Ray

[dilla]

Played it to death until BWAB came out,then played the live songs endlessly.Recently played the studio album again and although really enjoyed the songs not on BWAB LIVE found that the live versions had so much more "body"(especially "Did you make it safe")
Now when I play BDAW I tend to skip  whichever songs are on the live cd,and just play the few tracks which aren't,and then stick the live cd on.
Bloody great songs tho .Still love it

[Anna Woman von NRW]

Interesting that there is a view that the lyrice are pessimistic/depressing ( I paraphrase). I don't really get that feeling myself. Reflective and honest - yes but not a downer.

Angry Planet is pretty pessimistic with it's Malthusian theme (bordering into KJ territory!) and whilst I consider it the same period it's from a different album.

The planet is no angrier than all the stardust we marvel over. It's just a matter of distance.

BDAW has a broad range of themes for a typical NMA album.  All the greatest arts of work usually cover Nature, God or Love - and for me JS is strongest lyrically in these areas.  Indeed, some argue they're all the same thing and in many ways they are right.

Take your point there Dominic and yes I guess Angry Planet is fairly pessimistic although I hadn't considered BWAB in this conversation. I think I view the Angry Planet tag as referring to us humans rather than the Earth itself which as you point out is quite likely no angrier or happier than any other planet in the cosmos.

Nature, God & Love the same thing - is to me or at least facets of the same thing and if a rebalancing on Earth is heading our way as envisioned in the song, looked at dispassionately (maybe even cold-heartedly) it could be said it's just the Earth cleaning itself of a particularly virulent little parasite which is a good thing for the planet - i.e. optimistic not pessimistic !

Before the guns come out for me I'm toying with ideas and thoughts here - I am not for one minute hoping for some actual mass near extinction event ! Mind you I wouldn't bet against some human induced catastrophic occurence. I probably sound like an extreme survivalist type now 

[Devil Incarnate]

I see it much the same way that I did Eight back in the day and I am hoping that it eventually sinks in the way that one did, even though it took several years for it to happen.

[Dominic]

The planet is no angrier than all the stardust we marvel over. It's just a matter of distance.

I think I view the Angry Planet tag as referring to us humans rather than the Earth itself which as you point out is quite likely no angrier or happier than any other planet in the cosmos.

Nature, God & Love the same thing - is to me or at least facets of the same thing and if a rebalancing on Earth is heading our way as envisioned in the song, looked at dispassionately (maybe even cold-heartedly) it could be said it's just the Earth cleaning itself of a particularly virulent little parasite which is a good thing for the planet - i.e. optimistic not pessimistic !

When a hurricane hits a piece of land I don't think nature really cares whether it destroys weeds or flowers.
So if humans are parasites or not doesn't really matter; nature changes. Indeed that is what defines the existence of nature - change.
But saying we accept the pessimistic view as humans as parasites - the most successful viruses by their very nature mutate and adapt to their environment and make it their own.

Peoples idea of nature is very relative - if somebody wanted to knock down a beautiful historic 18th century palace there would be an outcry. But I bet there was no outcry in the first place for the fields and woodland it replaced. It will be the same when The Shard in London starts to date and crumble. For me Angry Planet is in that tradition of songs/stories lamenting how things were once better and are now less so.

So I don't think anyone mourns the death of a star, unless it's their own.

[Anna Woman von NRW]

When a hurricane hits a piece of land I don't think nature really cares whether it destroys weeds or flowers.
So if humans are parasites or not doesn't really matter; nature changes. Indeed that is what defines the existence of nature - change.

But saying we accept the pessimistic view as humans as parasites - the most successful viruses by their very nature mutate and adapt to their environment and make it their own.

Peoples idea of nature is very relative - if somebody wanted to knock down a beautiful historic 18th century palace there would be an outcry. But I bet there was no outcry in the first place for the fields and woodland it replaced. It will be the same when The Shard in London starts to date and crumble. For me Angry Planet is in that tradition of songs/stories lamenting how things were once better and are now less so.

So I don't think anyone mourns the death of a star, unless it's their own.

Hurricanes are part and parcel of the Earths systems and processes, it is only humans who impart a judgement as to whether that is a good or bad occurrence, indeed for every "negative" effect as perceived by us there will be another "positive" one relating to the biological/ecological/geological systems surely? In the same way that for  a natural forest (i.e. untouched by human management) Fire is an essential part of the cycle required to clear space for the next generation of trees, to supply essential nutrients and provide habitat/food for other lifeforms. Furthermore there are flora species whose seeds require burning in order to germinate. So yes change is an essential part of Nature but I don't quite get how it is the definition of Nature's existence.

Nice point about successful viruses though 

Afraid I can't agree with you on the 18th century palace - I bet that the Farmers, Woodland workers and Livestock herders were seriously pissed off when their livelihoods were taken away .......... As for how the end of The Shard will be viewed when the time comes, well it probably depends on how strong the attachment grows in the intervening years and how much value is placed on the building.

Maybe nobody does give a monkeys about a star dying unless it's their own - but we ain't about to kill a star. Make it unfit for human life quite possibly but kill it, I don't think so.

Whichever way you look at it, Angry Planet is a damn fine song though 

[arwen]

I find it interesting that most people who don't like the album, like my least favourite songs the most (i.e. Storm Clouds, Tomorrow Came etc).

I am with Johnz and Guillaume here. Though I like the live version of Stormclouds better.
I still love BDAW.