Author Topic: Jeremy Corbyn  (Read 2812 times)

Pol

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Jeremy Corbyn
« on: September 12, 2015, 08:30:46 PM »
Opinion Time  !

So Jeremy Corbyn has been given a massive majority to lead the labour party especially by the rank and file membership if not his fellow mps. Will this spell disaster for the party as many has predicted or will lead to a stronger party in the long term. Maybe its all a bad repeat of 80s with Cameron , ids and co having their archway towers attack on the weak maybe its only natural a stronger brand of socialism should return. Is the country too split to find middle ground  ?
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Bunny

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2015, 09:01:26 PM »
Well. Given that the top of the tree is being watered at the expense of the bottom, I dont think Labour is a threat yet. But its a long time til the next election and a lot can change. At some point people will have had enough of being bled dry, but I think its got to hit the middle classes before it happens. Ill never forget one woman on tv saying Dave was doing a good job. Not sure how tbh.
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Master Ray

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2015, 09:38:33 PM »
Looks like Labour might actually be swinging to the left again?  Wasn't that the way it was supposed to be in the first place?

Whatever, he can't be worse than Blair (war-mongering Tory in disguise) or Ed Milliband (so idiotic, I suspect he was on the Tory payroll...)

We'll see.
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Sheena

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2015, 04:53:38 PM »
I'm kinda hopeful that it will shake things up a bit, if nothing else...
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Master Ray

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2015, 06:00:07 PM »
After reading todays papers, it seems that the general opinion is that Labour are now finished and the Tories have a free reign to do whatever they want for over a decade, at least... but those were the same papers that bowed down before the Tories during the last election coverage (including, incredibly, The Sun, a paper mostly aimed at the working class / underclass, the people who are going to be hurt most by the current government...)

But lets face it, Blair and Milliband were not true Labour.  They were rich career politicians with one eye on humping the cash cow.  Corbyn, for all his quirks (and, yes, I'm not 100% convinced about his ideals) seems to be a proper swing to the left which hasn't happened in a damn long while.  The question is... do the British public actually want that?  Or are they just gonna be distracted by whatever TV reality show is on next?  Gloomy prospect, I know, but I'm not very optimistic these days...

As it's been said before, it's gonna be interesting...

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Sheena

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2015, 06:24:33 PM »
Hmm, that's the worry isn't it, that labour are now unelectable. 

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Anna Woman von NRW

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2015, 07:45:33 PM »
Funny isn't it.......................  part of the electorate give voice to a desire for some different narrative, an alternative discourse and just something fecking else from the homogoenized media friendly facade is roundly dismissed as unrealistic and unelectable. The dogma of centralist positioning cannot accept that many people are desperate for something else.

I dunno whether or not the "Jez We Did" brigade actually believe in a Prime Minister Corbyn but I'm sure that they believe in a chance to think another way. I think that was the choice that was made, I don't think it was a "cult of personality" judgement.

Interestingly the focus seems to be on how Labour can win back the middle ground. Endlessly trying to win the affection of a narrow slice voters. I think a party that can tap into those outside these extremely narrow parameters could shake the tree somewhat harder than might be thought.

I doubt it will though.

Fixed term parliaments now so without a no confidence vote this is it till 2020 isn't it?  Nearly 5 years worth of harking back to the different world the 70's/80's Labour party existed in. Just wait for the "Looney Left" charactatures to come flooding out. The media will shut out discussion of issues and invoke fantastical demons perched on the shoulder of Stalin. And god forbid he actually wins an election then I'm sure it will be A Very British Coup  ;D

But hopefully what has happened is the start of something new, or perhaps more accurately a rebirth. Be nice to think it might be eh?

 :-*

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Sheena

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2015, 07:50:46 PM »
I hope so Anna, it's keeping me going...
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Pol

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2015, 08:25:26 PM »
The media spews out what it wants people to think, I actually think he has some good ideas just why the fck do we need nuclear weapons and why can't the trains be privatised big business isn't exactly doing a great job.
Sadly some people vote by image and not policy. Just look how popular the snp are with similar policies, ok we fcking hate the Tories but with good reason . At the end of the day the country seems to run by certain parts of England but that's maybe another issue
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Danny

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2015, 08:52:25 AM »
For the first time in 20 years the Labour party is actually a leftwing party, for the first time in 10 (at least) I can consider helping/doing things for them again.

Voted for him through my trade union but didn't think the blairites would allow him to win, so pleased he did.

Of course the road is very long, and plenty of times before Labour has let people down after promising lots, but at least I feel there is genuine potential for change now.

Also, aside from anything else I'm loving to see how the tory scum and rightwing rags are shitting themselves and working themselves into a fit about the whole thing... cos their behaviour when it became clear Corbyn might have actually won it and ridiculous reaction to the announcement he did proves that they are doing just that.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 04:50:22 PM by Danny »

Pumpkin

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2015, 11:40:53 AM »
Corbyn’s victory is fascinating for several reasons.

First, haven’t we already been down this road before and wasn’t Corbyn even a part of it? When the hard left within Labour tried a coup in the 80s, did it not mean civil war within the party and decades of being marginalised by the electorate? Did Kinnock not spend most of his time on party in-fighting and trying to heal wounds and bitter division, rather than dealing with being a real member of the opposition in Parliament? That in itself created the undisputed necessity to move to the middle ground initiated slowly under Kinnock and Smith, paving the way for Blair. Whatever anyone thinks of Blair in hindsight, the fact is Labour were going nowhere fast without him. 1997 was all about New Labour – not ‘old’ Labour. 

Second, is it not a fact that only 15 of Labour’s current 232 MP’s backed Corbyn? If so, that creates a significant schism within the party between its elected representatives and a party base swollen by recent supporters, many of whom have no recollection of 1980s Labour and its trials and tribulations. Doesn’t it only take 46 signatures to trigger another leadership contest?...

Corbyn has a huge job on his hands dealing with this alone, never mind pursuing a number of policies which may not be too palatable to many current Labour MP’s. With the emergence of a group calling itself “The Resistance”, already backed by Labour’s single largest private funder, his attempts to finalise the Shadow Cabinet is already showing splits. His ability to lead from the top will be tried. He is, however, the most rebellious MP in the party and one without any experience of senior office, despite his long tenure. I'm not sure the leadership qualities are proven by facts.

Corbyn will either moderate many of his own policies and accommodate more of the central politics of Labour, or he will marginalise and split the party further. We’ve already seen the effects of the hard left on Labour…under Wilson to Callaghan and the whole period of bitter in-fighting and radicalisation epitomised by Tony Benn and Denis Healey. The only reason why Labour ever won successive elections more recently was because both Smith and his protégée Blair managed to keep the party going off the rails.

Interestingly, Corbyn, unlike Galloway, managed rather easily not to stray too far from the prescribed party path. In other words, he was smart enough not to cross the line under Blair and Brown. Therefore, Corbyn has shown understanding that the party is bigger than the man. Will that be lost now that he has the whip?

Corbyn and his supporters would do well to keep this in mind. Between now and next spring, Labour might just well decide that Corbyn serves a better purpose back in the background.

Master Ray

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2015, 09:49:35 PM »
I did find it interesting that 30,000 people joined The Labour Party within three days of Mr Corbyn being elected...  ???
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Pol

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2015, 10:06:47 PM »
Maybe he won't win anything maybe he will
I think it definitely sends out a message that alternative to the Tories is possible, lots of people are looking for something different, I think that some of his views will stand the test of time, there is no point in labour being the Tories in disguise look how that ended up
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ldopas

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2015, 02:00:27 PM »
Maybe he won't win anything maybe he will
I think it definitely sends out a message that alternative to the Tories is possible, lots of people are looking for something different, I think that some of his views will stand the test of time, there is no point in labour being the Tories in disguise look how that ended up

There are already alternatives out there; Greens, UKIP, EDL, Socialist Workers Party. This view that Labour are "red tories" is an interesting one. I understand that if you are far left, then it could look like that. But the plain fact, to be tested for the umpteenth time at the ballot box soon, is that most of Britain, certainly England, hover around the centre. Polls and results bear it out. So to be fair, being slightly left of centre is what winning looks like.

MR quotes people joining Labour, and yes it might be significant, but I suspect not. Only time will tell. This reflective narcissism, where groups of like beliefs talk and get excited to each other but do not reflect the majority happens time and again.

Im no fan of Corbyn, but I definitely welcome the ying and yang debate here. It makes politics a lot more interesting.  Corbyn to me looks like a man who wanted to shake up the leadership debate, won unexpectedly, and doesn't look like he wants to be there. He certainly has said very little to the mass of us, but has played happily to his own gallery (as he has been doing for 4 decades on the public purse). What will be interesting is when, and if, he comes and debates with the rest of us.

No my biggest problem is with his picks for his team. Especially the revolting John McDonnell a man with stinking views and economic policy for bankruptcy. Even left leaning Labour MPs were against his appointment. Hell even Len McClusky warned against it!

Pumpkin

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2015, 02:21:58 PM »
Im no fan of Corbyn, but I definitely welcome the ying and yang debate here. It makes politics a lot more interesting.  Corbyn to me looks like a man who wanted to shake up the leadership debate, won unexpectedly, and doesn't look like he wants to be there. He certainly has said very little to the mass of us, but has played happily to his own gallery (as he has been doing for 4 decades on the public purse). What will be interesting is when, and if, he comes and debates with the rest of us.

No my biggest problem is with his picks for his team. Especially the revolting John McDonnell a man with stinking views and economic policy for bankruptcy. Even left leaning Labour MPs were against his appointment. Hell even Len McClusky warned against it!

Couldn't agree more.

As for the appointment of John McDonnell, Corbyn has actually given the position to the worst possible candidate. McDonnell's glorification of violence and his revolting praise of the IRA, combined with his own fantasy of wanting to murder someone, makes him an absolute embarrassment to the Labour Party.

Doesn't look too good if you've already scored an own goal within the first minute of the game...