EU Referendum

[MARKXE]

So the elected leader of our Country has battled hard in Brussels and secured the UK a "Special status".
Well done Dave.


Time for all the scaremongering stories to start on the Media channels about how bad it will be to leave the EU and to watch all the elected politicians squirm.
Do they go against Dave and risk their positions or do they go with their convictions and go against their leader.
The date is set and now we can look forward to debate after debate on the pros and cons.

Given that it is without doubt the most important vote you or I will probably make in our lifetime, which side are you on.

Yes or No

For me it has to be NO.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11324069/What-is-the-EU-referendum-and-when-is-it.html

[Anna Woman von NRW]

And so it begins................

I'm not convinced that either side has a particularly compelling case although on balance I think I'm in the YES camp, primarily because I fail to see how a return to "Splendid Isolation" will benefit the UK. Are we really still a "great" power or is that just rose tinted nostalgia for times that never really existed anyway? In an ever increasingly globalized world how does standing alone help? This is the question that I have not seen any answer to - how will we benefit from leaving?

Scaremongering will be what we are going to be fed incessantly from both camps over the next few months. I somehow doubt that calm rational debate is going to be in evidence. What concerns me is that this is actually going to end up as purely a decision on immigration/asylum and will not encompass the huge spectrum of issues that will be affected by this decision.

Then there is the issue of how how a decision to leave could affect the UK itself - will Scotland want to stay and would this inevitably lead us down the road to dissolution of the UK? But maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing anyway.

Like I said, I'm provisionally in the YES camp but I'm not ideologically wedded to that and could be persuaded by sound rational argument. However gut feeling says that anything endorsed by the likes of Farage, Galloway, Gove and Duncan-Smith is not somewhere I want to be.

[lotus]

I as a German would say NO
Visiting London without the feeling I`m a criminal and needing a visa and beeing not a normal person, because I only want to visit an Army gig and eat perfect fish and chips ...

It`s better to stay and try to change something than to leave and stay outside with less influence (and wainting for stronger partners as  - )

[Rusco]

Ok, so it's brought here now too.

I'm in the NO group. I voted for NO in 1994 too when the election was here. Leftwing were criticised then for having a same stance than the ones at right had but the reasons were different of course. But I hope it's not just the same theme among you folks over there. After being 20 years inside a union I'd humbly say things are more complex than just the quarrels between left and right.

It's hard to me to see what the EU profits about begging so much UK to join it... Is it so hard to the union to admit its own flaws? Still thinking that it's an adorable step to mysterious high levels? Remember, you can't depart it after joining it and food stuffs will become more expensive. Then there's a power elite in Brussels that will draw new frames for your policy.

Personally, I've enjoyed visiting UK and being outside of EU, exchanged currency to something else than euros. You're an authentic nation with a rich base of culture.

[Pol]

Was very much on the fence for a long while, yes some of the employment laws have been good for us , some of the human rights laws have been way ott why should murders and rapists etc be able to sue us the tax payer, why did it take years to kick certainly hate preachers out. Yes Europe has brought money to some farmers and improved or towns and cities. What really pisses me off is some of laws the European Parliament seems able to pass , and yes I'm mainly thinking of the tpd right now, just how fcking stupid is some of that fck public health lets protect big tobacco and pharmaceutical companies and of course tax revenue. As a vapor I'm voting No. Don't forget this is a parliament that wanted e cigs on prescription with cigarettes available in every corner shop.
Fck I can't believe I'm in agreement with Nigel, ids and a few other nasty tories but the tpd was the final straw and I can't vote for that

[Master Ray]

IMO, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. We're gonna be staying in because Call Me Dave wants it.  The figures will be massaged, via one technicality or other, into something benefiting our glorious leader.  And if this referendum doesn't work, it won't be a 'no', it'll be a 'OK, we'll work on it a bit and have another one next year...' 

There's no way the UK will come out of Europe because the big boys have too much money to make.

[Anna Woman von NRW]

Devil's in the detail though.............

If we leave the European Union we may not be obligated to the European Court Of Justice but as a member of the Council Of Europe we will still be bound by the European Court Of Human Rights - so which court pisses people off? And will a NO vote stop that ?

As for business and finance, does anyone think we won't still follow the temple of mammon? tpa, TTIP - all of this will still be slavishly adored. It's a question of where can influence be bought to bear.

Perhaps I'm too fatalistic and getting the hell out of there will bring us real independence and freedom to act as we see fit. Somehow I doubt it though and we will just accelerate our descent down the league table - ala Chelsea this season 

[Bunny]

That said Anna, the European Court also safeguards us against unfair employment practice. Im fairly sure but stand to be corrected,  that a lot of employment laws have stopped a lot of less salubrious employers doing as they will. Im wholly undecided tbh. For me the main No will be the anti-migration camp. I see the pro's and cons of it. The yes vote will be the financial/business argument. I really am undecided either way. I dont however beleive we will lose trade as a result of going alone. I genuinely dont know where ill make my mark.

[Shush]

Can we please change it from "yes or no" to - in or out ?, or stay or go ? I am loosing track here. Is it yes we should stay, yes we should go.

this is easier --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqH21LEmfbQ

[Rusco]

Somehow it looks like today that every country feels they should be a part of something bigger; belong to a coalition of either vast territories, economic or militar coalitions. Like if the world was just the States, Europe, African, orients or Eur Asian and then those who are "alone" are without any shelter and intimidated about possible would-be threats.

[Bunny]

Can we please change it from "yes or no" to - in or out ?, or stay or go ? I am loosing track here. Is it yes we should stay, yes we should go.

this is easier --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqH21LEmfbQ

I was hoping in vain that was gonna be the Hokey Cokey, "You put your country in, your country out......"

[Johnz]

There is certainly a lot to consider and I hope people make an informed decision. Personally I don't think the UK would be better off leaving as they are still tied to Europe regardless so they would just lose the chance to effect change. There is certainly a lot of room for improvement in the EU. The question is not so much if you like it but if you prefer the alternative.

Also, many of the European institutions are far more progressive than those of the individual member states. As someone who works in conservation, I know that leaving the EU would result in the scrapping of lot of European environmental protection laws. Many of my friends who work in conservation in the UK are very worried about a possible exit as it will open the floodgates to countless developments in sensitive areas.

But that's just one aspect of it. More importantly I think that what Europe needs right now is unity and not separation. A British exit would play right into the hands of the far right, whether you like it or not. Divide and conquer as they say.

Interestingly, here in New Zealand the majority seems to favour a British exit. Kiwis have never forgiven the EU for stealing the Motherland from them. Ironically, there is an influx of Brits here, escaping a Britain that has been ruined by the EU and political correctness and searching for a bit of that colonial empire grandeur (luckily those pesky Maories are easy to ignore but sadly the Asians seem to be advancing it into the good neighbourhoods now).

Interesting times indeed.

[joerg]

I'm from Germany and i really hope that the UK stays in the EU. The EU is not perfect, of course. But how can we expect anything else ? It is a community of 28 different countries with different cultures and different interests. Many of them were in war with each other for centuries. What is the alternative ? Going back to nationalism ? No cooperation instead of a difficult cooperation ? I'm convinced that a united Europe with problems is better than a separated Europe. There will be a lot of discussions about details until june. I think this is a referendum about something more important.



 


 

 

 

 
 

[Anna Woman von NRW]

Can we please change it from "yes or no" to - in or out ?, or stay or go ? I am loosing track here. Is it yes we should stay, yes we should go.

this is easier --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqH21LEmfbQ

I'm with ya there fella - it's getting a bit confusing already! I think we should plump for stay or go.

Good post from Johnz which illustrates quite nicely how this decision will affect SO MANY different areas of life. Are we sure we want to throw out stuff we never really knew we had? Then again, how much of this stuff do we really want/need? It would be interesting to see an independent list we could trust that laid out in black and white exactly what we are voting to keep/bin, because it all seems to be a bit hazy and vague for such a big collective decision.

Nice to read joerg's thoughts (Hello  ) and to get another non UK perspective and I have to say non-cooperation -vs- difficult cooperation is a good way of expressing the dilemma.

Drummyb also points out quite nicely how the European Court  - just like every court we are bound by - looks after us as well as doing us over. Nothings perfect but do we truly want to throw out a way to challenge the decisions of a ideologically determined government (of whatever colour) ?

Have to say that seeing the bullshite photo-op drivel in the media does not fill me with optimism. FFS, T-shirts and razzle ? Feeling like a third rate half-time at an american football match rather than a profound decision on where this country wants to go.

[Pol]

Maybe where and when Dave's 'red card ' will be used will swing my decision, fck 4 months of this I've just about recovered from the Scottish vote