Author Topic: Brussels was the angry planet's capital today  (Read 5294 times)

New Dawn

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Brussels was the angry planet's capital today
« on: March 22, 2016, 09:16:48 PM »
Today is a bad day! Very bad. After Paris, France, now Brussels, Belgium, is under invisible siege. I know terroristic suicide bombing happens all over the world but when it comes close to you it always hits much harder. Romantic times are over one could say. I remember taking the Brussels subway in 1998 after doing a stupid job at a record company and heading to the NMA Molenbeek gig that evening not thinking too much. Certainly not watching my back. Doing the same a few months later for the second gig there. And also in 2000 for the Botanique, later on in Paris etc...  I always thought this had a certain charm. What could possibly happen except for a gang of young probably second generation immigrants to welcome us with a recital of snowballs when leaving the subway? Not too much. Maybe these youngsters thought it just funny what it actually was. Maybe, in retrospect, it showed their displeasure later to become concrete and much harder than some snow. I'm not sure... But reality is that society has changed. Western culture faces an invisible enemy. Freedom in general and the freedom of going to a concert or cultural event is in danger. We must not give in to fear but it is faster said than done. Maximum security will be the codeword for politicians and we can expect a big political shift to the right here in Belgium. Innocent refugees will be the victim of the infiltration and mingling in their groups by terrorists with false passports. Being unwanted is just another suffering for them. So yes, we all live on an angry planet... The question is who or what's gonna change that?

Cheers
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 09:53:35 PM by New Dawn »
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Master Ray

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Re: Brussels was the angry planet's capital today
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2016, 10:04:42 PM »
A sad and angry post, one I agree with.  I do like the way you're not blaming ALL immigrants for this horrible scenario, as seems to be the knee-jerk reaction on other websites. 

A big political shift to the right?  It's definitely coming, all over Europe, we've all seen the proof of that in Germany.  I've seen it said that the EU was supposed to stop European countries going to war with each other... yet it might now seem to be starting other kinds of wars (race-related, no doubt) and, ironically, leading to a rise in fascism?  Seriously, what awaits the vast majority of immigrants who wish us no harm and just want to make a better life for themselves?  No jobs, nowhere for them to stay, no money to keep them fed, a media that incessantly purports them to be the enemy...   :'( and I'm pretty sure that will rise to the increase of moderate folks being turned to radicalism, through sheer desperation and non-education alone... 

Terrible events like this are gonna keep on coming.  No doubt about that.  What can we do about it?  Absolutely nothing.  The EU should have seen this coming years back and put measures into place.  The UN don't give a crap, even though this is a WORLD issue. 

I just despair and, quite frankly, hate the state of the world right now.

Rah! Rah! Rah! We're going to smash the oiks!

Master Ray

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Re: Brussels was the angry planet's capital today
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2016, 11:05:51 PM »
Didn't know that, A, so thanks for clueing me in on that point.
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Pol

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Re: Brussels was the angry planet's capital today
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2016, 11:13:10 PM »
Most of problem seems to be people who were born in Europe and who have become radicalized n not asylum seekers.
Of course we all know that the right will use any reason to promote violence and hatred all this does is spiral into a vicious circle of more attacks and more hate. We must of course take justice on those that commit these acts yet try to find a way to stop it happening over and over again
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Stephanie

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Re: Brussels was the angry planet's capital today
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2016, 03:06:17 PM »
I don't get it. Maybe it is because  some westerners relate more to the people in Belgium?
Yes, I believe that is the very reason. My theory is that there is just way too much going on - if you let all of it get really close you would really go mad in no time at all. So, if anything happens further away (further geographically but also mentality-wise, if that makes sense) then you just don't let it touch you that much - not as a deliberate reaction, it's just what it is. It also doesn't mean that you don't care, it's a bit of self-protection.
Now, if it happens closer to home, this self-protection doesn't really work. Like, for me, it is a relatively short trip to Brussels and a dear friend of mine lives 10 minutes away from the city centre, we visit each other a lot - so this hits home...if you know what I mean.

It's horrible, this series of attacks - and I am as worried as all of you about the political drift to the right. Local elections here in Germany in the past couple of weeks did not come up with a surprising result - we saw that one coming- but it's still so scary. What scares me most is the sheer stupidity of some people who decided to vote for this party out of protest - totally ignorant of what AfD stand for.

But then politicians really aren't doing anything to dispel people's fears, to come up with answers to their many questions. It's pathetic.

My heart goes out to the victims and their families and friends.  :'(

ldopas

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Re: Brussels was the angry planet's capital today
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2016, 05:21:37 PM »
It is quite interesting that radical terrorist muslims have killed so many people in Belgium, yet the posts here seem exclusively to lay into the west, alleged "right wing" takeovers and accusations of racism in Europe.

I think we are putting the horse before the cart. I do not believe vast swathes of us think it is "all" muslims, but it is a religious issue which if you know the history dates back many centuries in another time. Many ISIS fighters quote these "teachings" which are irrelevant to the majority of us living in 2016, but they believe it shockingly.

How about we concentrate on those who perpetrate this kind of thing. Usually muslim, usually young, usually stupid I suspect, easily malleable. And we target them.

I'm not like you, I do not think that we will become facists, certainly not here. Using the left and right template is not correct. People will naturally be worried about people who have other religions, values and ethoses coming in numbers just like they would if it were reversed. That is not racism, but a kosher worry people will have. Yeah of course some right and left wing nutjobs will dictate and get media inches saying bullshit. I suspect someone may quote one to me here, but it does not mean it is widespread.

We discuss the thoughts that we are all going to turn into facists. How about a chat on the issue that being more liberal left in Europe has helped people like these perpetrate the bombing? To me the problem IS this "I'm left wing", "I'm right wing" crap. It is facts we need to look at.

I don't believe like some of you we can do nothing. We can work with middle eastern governments where we can. Try and build bridges with Iran, as they seem pretty important players. Hell who would have thought Iran was a going to be a staple of balance? Cross bridges with Russia, difficult and murky I know. But we are divided on this issue as a world, never mind the platitudes for each atrocity that we are "all as one" in condemnation. We probably at some stage will require the UN to sanction a combined effort to bomb and fight ISIS as this virus is spreading. And yes we need vigilance and border control. And I AM NOT Farage!

There are some things we can think about. Do nothing is not an option, that I'm sure we can all agree on!!!  :)

BlackCountryMaggiD

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Re: Brussels was the angry planet's capital today
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2016, 06:14:22 PM »

The UN do give a crap. UNHCR has helped a lot with refugees. I have seen their groundwork first-hand. They do all they can. They can't break various government's laws. They are scaling back assistance due to the new EU deal. They do not support it and feel it is being rushed.  They give a massive crap. I admire their work greatly.
This article from UNHCR gives a good insight into what the UN refugee agency are up to and how they are working alongside the Greek authorities and EU representatives on the Islands and Mainland.
http://www.unhcr.org/56f10d049.html
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Stephanie

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Re: Brussels was the angry planet's capital today
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2016, 10:32:11 AM »
Is your friend okay Stephanie?   I wish her or him the very best. I imagine people are still very frightened there. :'(
Yes, she is, thank you for asking. It seems all her friends and family are accounted for as well. Yes, it feels very awkward for them - but she is coming over tomorrow to spend Easter with us, we're going to have a good time.  :)



ldopas

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Re: Brussels was the angry planet's capital today
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2016, 03:27:06 PM »
Actually the bible, Old Testament is more violent and sick than the Quran. These are not real muslims and muslims are ashamed  of them and running from them also. Turkey has many muslims, IS kills more muslims than any other religion.   

Bombing IS would mean innocent people would die. Far more than the people who died in Brussels. Already there are far too many killed. Then IS would attack even more. Syria and Iraq have already been harmed enough. Bombing is the last thing they need. 

"People will naturally be worried about people who have other religions, values and ethoses coming in numbers just like they would if it were reversed"   
Only ignorant people will be worried about that. Anyone who spent any meaningful time around Syrians, Iraqis and Afghanis would say otherwise. They have a beautiful culture and very friendly. It would enhance Europe or anywhere they would settle.  I trust them with my life and will stand with them in Solidarity regardless of what happens. It is radicalized westerners that are to fear.  Not refugees or economic migrants.  Please don't fear them.

I have said before that closing borders does not help anything. It causes horrible despair for fellow human beings.
It is not about politics , It is about compassion and love and the fact that other people are made to feel unwelcome.

Well I will ignore the fact you think I am ignorant. So you personally can answer for ALL Syrians and others as all nice loving people as you said, and of course you personally can tell us it is "radicalised westerners" can you forgetting WHO actually radicalises them. Nice.

So your tactic to end this is apparently according to this post of yours; do not bomb IS, but open every border to let potentially millions of people move into Europe. You clearly have solved where they are to be housed, fed and how our already strained services are going to cope. Anyone who thinks that this geopolitical and cultural shift is dangerous and unworkable to be labelled stupid or a racist.

I assume you think IS will then be happy bedding in in the lands they have vacated and not want to spread their beliefs (as they have already said). And of course the people left behind will be happy to live under extreme sharia and be stoned and beheaded, women sold as sex slaves.

All we need is love you say, not politics. Perhaps IS will start to love us all then. And what about those who wish to practice their own religious zealotry, like female genital mutilation for an example. I assume we must turn a blind eye as we welcome them and their beliefs?

It is an interesting view, but in my view unworkable and fantasy. Sorry!  :)

Stephanie

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Re: Brussels was the angry planet's capital today
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2016, 03:47:05 PM »
She has a point, though: those who carried out these attacks WERE people who were born here (in the west) or at least grew up here. Yes, IS did the radicalising (is that a term?) - but of course they found easy targets in those areas where even those who had been brought into the respective countries generations ago are still not accepted, nor are there children and grandchildren, they are discriminated again.

So, educating people is very, very important, all people, ignorance is dangerous - and "love", open-mindedness, plays an important part as well. Outsiders are easy to win over - you see that in every school.

It is a very complex situation, for sure, but at least A. has lived with these people, has been to their countries, has worked hard for and with those refugees.

Generalising never works, of course, in no direction

Pol

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Re: Brussels was the angry planet's capital today
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2016, 05:37:33 PM »
I think we can all agree that IS must be defeated, the issue is how much does bombs and bullets really work, there only a very short term answer. The problem is that we may well take out a few of their top men but unless we address the many complex root problems all we are doing is adding fuel to the fire, there dead fighters will soon be replaced with many more angry young men
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Pumpkin

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Re: Brussels was the angry planet's capital today
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2016, 07:46:47 PM »
I agree very much with what ldopas has written here. I will add to that a daily bewilderment on my behalf how such liberal political outlooks even attempt to defend Islam, a religion of which it should be nothing less than wholeheartedly critical for obvious reasons. Once upon a time the left spared no rod when it came to criticism of religion…and rightly so.

Islam, without a doubt, is the most toxic religion. The Koran’s promotion of death for apostates, something missing from other religions, is one of the most offensive ‘truths’ I have personally ever encountered. It is nothing short of repulsive that you, as an individual, are not allowed to exercise your own free will and think for yourself.

A religion in which God (Allah) supposedly spoke through the angel Gabriel to some illiterate paedophile, warlord called Mohammed who faithfully ‘wrote’ it all down and became ‘the only true prophet’ of God? Spare me the badly conceived moral lesson here. Then to top it all off, Islam makes one particular claim for itself which subsequently justifies further violence, intolerance and persecution of non-believers: it is, of course, that it is the last word ever on the subject of God. Therefore, its principles cannot and should not be questioned...by anyone.

However, what makes the ‘faith’ even more spectacularly absurd is a certain 18th Century ‘addition’ to Sunni Islam known as Wahhabism, a radical puritan Islam which is the traditional backbone of the current House of al-Saud and one of the key sources of Islamic fundamentalism. It is, however, not without foundation – its origins rest with ‘the prophet’ himself, and the desire to turn to the original teachings, since the old Ottoman Empire of its time wasn’t particularly good at Islam. Well, at least according to many of the Arab nationalists agitating Istanbul. 

Rather than being blind and attempting to frame flawed Western policies for the rise of radical Islam, perhaps we could examine the Koran, the Hadith and Wahhabism for what they really are.

Perhaps we could start to understand what and who really drives ISIL, al-Qaeda, Boko Harem, al-Shabaab, Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad etc… ad nauseam

Perhaps the next time we blame the West for sowing the seeds of Islamic fundamentalism we could remind ourselves that the same West stood up to Serbia only a generation ago to protect Bosnian Muslims and Albanians, with NATO eventually bombing Serbia itself. The same West also pushed the agenda for creating Kosovo, a state not even widely recognised, at Serbia’s expense. A free man does not walk Karadzic.

I, for one, am never going to respect the ‘prophet’. I am, however, going to place much of the blame for ‘radical Islam’ at his feet, at the Koran itself and his musings in the Hadith. I am also going to frame Saudi Wahhabism in furthering it.

Mohammed’s revolting behaviour towards the Jewish tribes of Medina still serves as a current blueprint for groups like ISIL in their dealings with Yazidis, Christians and a ‘justification’ for anti-Jewish sentiments, something widespread throughout the Islamic world where Holocaust Denial is a way of life to both Sunni and Shia. Despite protestations to the contrary, ISIL’s behaviour owes much to the prophet. They know it, and so too do their critics.

The sooner we realise what Islam really is and the role the prophet and Saudi Arabia play in much of this abhorrent world terrorism network, the better. However, if we in the West simply want to fool ourselves that it is a storm in a teacup and will blow over, then what can we really expect?

Pol

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Re: Brussels was the angry planet's capital today
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2016, 07:48:21 PM »
Strong words Amanda and I get it, I've got to say I was disgusted by the attacks in Paris and Brussels and I know they have been many others but they seem to have hit home from here safe and warm on the big chair. Straight after Paris I would have helped wipe them out myself. Vengeance and hate make us almost as low as them and I say almost the western world aren't deliberately killing innocents yes many get caught in the cross fire. Its impossible to negotiate with people who aren't making any demands. Got to ask you Amanda how would you feel if Isis hit your home town or a gig where your favourite band were playing.
Yes I'm angry and a big part of me wants them wiped out yet I realise this can only be achieved with tolerance
Amanda who should have said Europeans and Americans and a good few other countries to be fair
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Pumpkin

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Re: Brussels was the angry planet's capital today
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2016, 07:48:58 PM »
Actually the bible, Old Testament is more violent and sick than the Quran.

Purely out of interest and for the sake of informed discussion, could you please quantify that?

Coumarin

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Re: Brussels was the angry planet's capital today
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2016, 08:02:45 PM »
Personally I would rather not go to Belgium again.

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