This Sorry Little Island

[Anna Woman von NRW]

This may be a little intemperate, this may get a bit incoherent but it certainly isn't intolerant ..............

I'll set my stall out here at the start: I left the UK almost a year ago because of love and where it took my life, not from any anti-UK vibe or "pro-the -rest-of-the-world" feeling although dissatisfaction did play a part. I'm married to an EU citizen so in theory whatever happens in the future my right to remain shoudn't change (actually there is a 3rd citizenship in the marriage so if the shite really does come down we'll upsticks and naff off again  ).

But .............

What on earth is going on ?  Where the hell does this myopic view of "Albion" come from? What has been pumped into the water back home? How much acid have you lot been taking? 

Seriously there needs to be a massive reality check - look in the mirror people and see your/our selves for what we are. The nonsense I'm reading in the media just does not compute with the day to day truth of what is happening over here on the continent. The self-importance of the UK is beyond the pale and all it really does is feed the "_fuck 'em let's hit 'em hard" stance, honestly there is nowhere near the level of interest in Brexit that the UK seems to think there is/should be, it's kinda seen as a side issue, an adjunct to the real business of the world. A certain amount of disappointment/"what a shame" and it's move on to something that MATTERS. If I had to write a phrase that summed it up it would be "ok they made their choice, move on" Nobody is really that bothered.

Look at the trade figures, look at the population stats, look with clear eyes at how much accommodation the EU tried to give the UK during the course of it's membership - and remember UK was 1 of 28 NOT the be all and end all. It beggars belief how self-important the UK is presenting itself. One simple example: The Germans need to sell their cars to the UK, it's an important market. Well I'm sorry but have you any idea how many BMW's, Audi's and VW's are on the road over here? Christ it's something British Leyland in the 70's could only ever have had a wet dream about, and in any case if you can afford one in the UK now then the extra few grand in a few years time are unlikely to matter much anyway are they? It just makes things even more out of reach for most of you/us. Another one, check what the Danes think in regard to fish quotas, I could go on but I suspect you get my point unless you are being willfully obtuse.

And what is the world like where you/we are headed too: Duerte, the Saudi's, - don't make me laugh. The good ol' USA - with that lunatic running around in circles? Please don't insult my intelligence. India perhaps? Well have you read the views coming from there? China ? Oh c'mon on I think I just pissed my knickers laughing. Perhaps things will change for the EU after the forthcoming elections in France & Germany but they didn't in The Netherlands did they and whether you/we like it or not consensus politics is more of a norm over here than it is back home. And consensus is how the EU works.

For gods/goddess/allah/jehovah/jedi's sake take a deep breath and look at the world as it is before June 8th, GET A -FECKING GRIP...... which brings us nicely too 

An election 

This is nothing but a straightforward power grab. It will be played as a 2nd referendum for which nobody has a mandate or a right for a replay. The Tories will win as the party for Brexit. It's just _fucking smoke and mirrors, an easy way to get 5 more years of Tory ideology and austerity. Vote against Tory and you are voting anti UK. That's not true but it's how this is going to play out. Nothing but an opportunistic cynical play on emotion. Is it really what the country wants? 5 more years of austerity (cos' obviously there is no other choice  ) 5 more years of lies and _bullshit ?

"Enough, wake me in a thousand years"

p.s. I ain't been abroad for 15 years yet so I still get a vote and so I still got my voice 

[Pol]

Had a bit of a election rant this morning. Good to hear a view for outside the madness of it all . From inside my "bubble" , I don't normally read national papers though sometimes see the metro as a public transport user , the only tv news I watch is the Scottish news though I look at the news on my phone app every day.
Been in Scotland I feel a bit excluded from it all and the views of  "my country " are being ignored. I'm not totally pro independence and I definitely feel there was a lot wrong with the EU.
I did state in my earlier rant that I felt sorry for England that it didn't have a credible alternative voice. I feel if labour had a strong leader then we wouldn't be in this mess.
It's impossible for me to understand why anyone would vote tory , having a  working class background and growing up under thatchers  regime of closing industries, the miners n the Falklands etc . Hey maybe we won't have had nma without it all though. (silver lining).

For all the evil of Tony Blair, I would swap him for Jeremy any time

[Bunny]

The myopic view of Albion has never left us since the Empire days and before. I accept the. Brexit vote before anyone criticises but I genuinely feel that while the country as a whole will be ok, the country will be divided by the haves and have nots, that we havent seen since the 80's.

As for the general election, it could have come in a year, six years, ten years. Under Corbyn, Labour are unelectable. The media is more fervently right wing scare story, funnily enough like the 80's. I do kind of get the argument though that we need stability in Government to guide us through Brexit, and any fighter will go for the kill when his opponent is at his weakest.

For me thus far May has been pretty anonymous as a PM, neither universally hated or loved. Give it time 😀

[Danny]

Under Corbyn, Labour are unelectable.

I'm hardly ever on this board anymore and don't see myself coming back anytime soon, for a whole set of reasons; however, one thing I can't refrain from saying: Labour, like any other party, are only unelectable if people don't vote for them. If you want to see the tories out (and I can't see how any person who considers themselves decent wouldn't want that) start by doing your bit by voting for him if you're in a constituency where it makes a difference, regardless of your personal opinions on him.
I absolutely despise the lib-dems and hold them responsible for the whole mess this country is in (they propped up Cameron for 5 years and by doing so legitimised the tories and made them respectable in the eyes of many people again, something I'll never forgive them for), yet if I lived in a constituency where they are the second party and could unseat a tory or one of the few they hold and where it's either them or the tories, I'd vote for them without a doubt. The same needs to apply for constituencies where the fight is between tories and Labour; personal opinions need to be put on one side and the vote must go to Labour. Tactical voting if done right can ensure the tories lose/don't win a lot of seats, and we cannot afford division now, not if you care about still having an NHS or however little is left of the welfare state. Brexit is only one of the issues at stake, and in my opinion not even the most important, so don't let the government run the election on this issue alone, regardless of whether you're in favour or not.

Of course I'd love a Labour absolute majority, but in the circumstances I'll happily settle for a hung parliament; the essential thing is that vile maggie may doesn't have a free-hand to sell off whatever's left that's good of this country to the highest bidder among her mates.

Here's what I think is a good guide to tactical voting: I didn't make it, and the author herself says that it's not 100% accurate everywhere, but it's a good place to start: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19_yf4RL133fBKscvSbID4eRKwztzY9KSI_2BMaI1bU8/edit#gid=0

PS Like I said I haven't been on here in months and I don't expect to be any more active in the future, so debate all you like if you want to but don't expect me to take part, or most likely to even see the replies.

[Bunny]

Well. Yeah. I get that. All of it. However ive yet to see an election where people havent voted for what theyre fed in the media OR via a general consensus. I dont beleive there will be a mass tactical vote. And I dont beleive Corbyn will shake off the looney left tag, thus making him unelectable. I will vote Labour simply because my conscience will allow me to vote Tory, even if I dont neccesarily agree the leader is a Prime minister in waiting. That said clearly he has a lot of support.

[Master Ray]

Tactical voting for me as well, I've little faith in Corbyn and these scant few weeks give little chance for a proper Tory opposition, but what else can we do?  Best case scenario is that the Tories don't get the massive landslide they are expecting and it might make them realise that they can't have it their own way all the time and might rethink some...

(pause)

Damn, that's crazy talk.  I need to stop drinking.  We're fooked. 

[Pol]

Maybe we should change the name to pretty average britain or divided kingdom

[Johnz]

Thanks for this post Anna. Good to see some political discussion on this forum again. I pretty much agree with Danny. A Labour vote is the only option unless you want a return to Thatcher's 80s.

I think it is entirely possible that he may get a good result or even win. Polls mean nothing anymore these days.

[Anna Woman von NRW]

It's hard to know how it will all shake down really ..............

Speaking personally it's a no brainer and has to be "anyone but the tories" - whatever that may mean in your own constituency. It may be unpalatable for some to even consider a vote for the Libdem's (after 2010 I swore I would never again give them my X) and equally some ex-tories that now have an affinity to the LD's may feel distinctly nauseous at the thought of voting Labour. However I really don't think there is any choice in this one - the stakes are too high.

The difficulty is that Corbyn has not cut through to enough voters as a potential Prime Minister. There is no doubt that he has hideously treated in the media and the personality assassinations have been astonishing. Equally the incessant backstabbing and undermining from opposition within the Labour party itself seems to go way beyond anything I've witnessed before in any party. Interestingly in a number of blind tests the majority of people approve of current labour policies however too many people seem to refuse to even consider putting him in power. But he's not exactly played a blinder either has he? Far too many instances of missing (or even failing to take at shot) at an open tory goal, taken together with a failure to build on the momentum he held when elected leader and the overall picture is of somebody just not cut out for job of PM. That's not necessarily my personal view but it's the impression I get of the electorate at large.

On a national level the issues are quite clear cut and a further 5 years of unopposed toryism lurching ever further rightwards is just not something that anybody should countenance. It depresses me to think that that is what people want the UK to become. But I have a horrible feeling that it's what will happen and within a year or too the ever louder despairing cries will echo again. But I don't understand how anybody can think that this time around it will be any different.

Internationally it is the most important time within my lifetime (I'm 47): In regard to Brexit the issues at stake will resonate throughout the near/mid future. The UK made it's decision last year and now it's all about making the best of it. This is where the smoke and mirrors truly come into play. The discussion should be about what next not about recriminations or having a re-run. What is the Uk's best chance of moving forward in the best possible manner? May, Davies, Johnson & Fox? I really don't think so based on the evidence of the past 10 months. I'm not convinced there is any strong team from other parties on their own but I refuse to believe that a coalition of individuals across the political spectrum couldn't be brought together to better represent the UK and negotiate with far greater success or at least mitigation of damage. Across the wider globe there seems to greater fracturing, uncertainty and potential for conflict. I for one most certainly do not want my country to be led blindly into an armed conflict by a fawning government intent on following the "leadership" from across the Atlantic. Neither do I want the UK to become an ever more rapricious arms dealer and tax avoiding haven for whoever needs it.

Finally there is the consideration of the United Kingdom itself. The Scottish issue is not going to magically go away, the potential return of a hard border in Ireland, these problems are real and considerable. Are the tories really the best option for dealing with them?

Tactical voting has to be the key and i believe a hung parliament would be the best possible outcome: force all sides to work together and maybe just maybe a non-partisan way forward can be constructed. The alternative is just too horrendous a thought.

[ldopas]

Well that was depressing. Personally I don't like the idea of another election and I think most of the parties are shite.

But what I see is nothing like you write. We are still a first world nation, clean water, free, democratic (how many bloody votes have we had now; Election a coupla years ago,Scots Indi, Referendum, another Election). We are still one of the most tolerant in the world, don't believe me the look up the indices on the internet.

You write as if the EU is a beaming paragon of virtue, forgetting it has done pretty well at f****g over Greece and others. Accounts not signed off for a decade. Bad. I voted to stay though, holding my nose as I did so.

We are not perfect, but this Empire thing is not as relevant as you say I think. In fact most of us seem embarrassed by it, when we were not even born. Lets face it, just because the Scots are in thrall to the SNP (Pol says there is no choice in England, what about Scotland for gods sake!), England to the Tories and you don't support either does not make us the toilet you seem to indicate. Sorry you all feel like that, if you read the Daily Mail site, they rant like that from the other wing. I don't think either position is right, my opinion.

And Anna, yepp I bet Brexit is not being talked about in the EU as much here. That is because it is US who it will impact most, so we are bound to discuss it.

I'm sorry everyone is so pessimistic, but I have a feeling we will be fine in the long run. I also want to see some fiscal leveling and more fairness. Also a raise in NI, and a cast iron government guarantee that goes into the NHS would also be a smart move. But I'm fine with living here, and I know I live a privileged life (hard work has helped as well to be fair to me), but yeah. 

[Pol]

Well its been wall to wall politics for the last few years,  not the most exciting subject but I suppose in many ways the most important.  Nobody is saying its a bad place to live but we all want better. The EU was far from being perfect,  I personally hated how unelected committees could force laws n rules that everyone thought were shit. Sure there were good employment and human rights though some of these were open to abuse.
The SNP are far from perfect but a million miles better than the tories.  As for labour in Scotland well  much there pretty much finished.
As for a rise in NI nobody wants less money,  maybe for those on a higher wage,  the just getting by or really struggling working class need more not less.
Nothing wrong with wanting to make Britain better (i think great is probably unrealistic ) but that would take at least a generation n require massive investment into education n proper training

[Anna Woman von NRW]

I think most of the parties are shite.

Hey we agree 

You write as if the EU is a beaming paragon of virtue,

Er, no. I didn't go into whether or not that was the case I stated a view from outside the UK regarding the current situation not whether or not it was gods gift to humanity - don't be disingenuous.

but this Empire thing is not as relevant as you say I think.

Not relevant to me or perhaps you but perception amongst those we have to deal with may very well be different and needs to be recognised.

And Anna, yepp I bet Brexit is not being talked about in the EU as much here. That is because it is US who it will impact most, so we are bound to discuss it.

My point entirely - It will have the most impact on US so we really should get a grip on the reality of the situation not view things through rose tinted glasses.

but I have a feeling we will be fine in the long run.

 

I also want to see some fiscal leveling and more fairness.

Then obviously you can't vote tory 

and a cast iron government guarantee that goes into the NHS would also be a smart move.

How about £350 million 

I know I live a privileged life

Same goes for every single one of us lucky enough to live in the western world

hard work has helped as well to be fair to me

Trouble is for far too many hard work doesn't help to be fair to them.

Nobody is saying its a bad place to live but we all want better.

This a thousand times