The official NMA board
General Category => New Model Army => Topic started by: Raw Melody Man on July 04, 2020, 03:03:46 PM
-
Hi folks
As title says I am looking for some specifics on Stuart's gear. I know he mainly played a Westone Thunder Jet bass into a Trace Elliot amp live, and also occasionally used a Fender Precision. No Rest obviously uses a delay pedal and it sounds like a chorus pedal on some tracks (eg Frightened) but I'm not certain and that's where my knowledge ends.
If anyone knows any more I'd be grateful, especially details such as which basses were used on both albums, FX used live and in the studio, anything really.
Why this nerdery you ask? Well I am a big fan of his work with New Model Army and I am thinking of recording some covers for YouTube, perhaps also transcribing his bass lines and recording lessons etc if there is interest. I think he's a massively underated/largely unknown British bassist yet *those* basslines and *that* tone really are something special. His tone is so striking and unique that I'd like to get as close as I can. I might also record some of the Moose era stuff but Stuart's tone is harder to get right.
Best outcome of all would be if someone could put me in touch with Stuart so I can get details from the horse's mouth, I hear he's a top bloke. Please PM me if you can help with this.
Cheers
Jon
-
Damn, no-one with info? That's a blow. Usually with these things there's someone who knows someone who knows him, especially in this interconnected world. Perhaps most folk on this forum are simply too young to know who Stuart Morrow is...
-
Damn, no-one with info? That's a blow. Usually with these things there's someone who knows someone who knows him, especially in this interconnected world. Perhaps most folk on this forum are simply too young to know who Stuart Morrow is...
Seriously?
Maybe Mr Morrow keeps his contact details private for reasons of his own.
Still, welcome to the Forum and all... there's space for all questions and comments here!
-
Seriously?
Maybe Mr Morrow keeps his contact details private for reasons of his own.
Still, welcome to the Forum and all... there's space for all questions and comments here!
Well if you check my post you'll see I was asking for gear details/info or to be put in touch, I'd be grateful for either. Usually on band fan type forums you'd get other musicians chipping in info to a question like this on gear used etc. I was just a little surprised to get nothing. 35-40 years is a long time ago :-)
I wasn't suggesting that anyone should post Stuart's contact details on a public forum. If someone knew him they could PM me and pass on a message, for example.
-
I have it on good authority that the fretless bass on Spirit of the Falklands was recorded on a Bass from Kay's catalogue ( remember them before online shopping!) That had the frets removed d.i.y style with a hammer and nail! Still sounded superb though. Now that will be hard to recreate authenticall.
-
I have it on good authority that the fretless bass on Spirit of the Falklands was recorded on a Bass from Kay's catalogue ( remember them before online shopping!) That had the frets removed d.i.y style with a hammer and nail! Still sounded superb though.
Wow, really? Great titbit thanks. I remember guitars from the Kay's catalogue too - Satellite, Columbus, we grew up with those things... awful unplayable things by today's standards. Amazing he recorded the album with that. I always wondered what the fretless bass was he used, I can hear it on several tracks. I assumed it was a fretless Westone.
Shame there is so little footage of the Stuart era.
Cheers
jon
-
I saw/used/ended up with a lot of Stuart's old gear when I joined. I even ended up borrowing his stuff for my first audition, which became a little embarrassing when he turned up at the rehearsal room looking for it.
Stuff that was around in June 1985 included:
A "Kay's catalogue" Fender Precision copy, which he kept, along with a Sharwood 6-string bass (of the sort Peter Hook used a lot) for Grandmother's Footsteps. The fretless at that stage was an Aria Pro II, which ended up with just one string for the cello bow stuff on Shot 18, and there was some other Aria bass lying around that I can't remember. As I recall, it was just called a Kay bass, I don't think the catalogue were involved, see later.
He also had an old Carlsboro (Stingray?) head and an unbranded 4 x 12 cabinet originally, and these were used on the early recordings, but following the signing of the EMI deal he bought possibly the worst Trace Elliot stack in the world. A 500 watt head, with a 2 x 10" speaker and a 20" bass bin. It was hopelessly unmatched and blew up on me 3 times in 6 days on the second leg of the No Rest for the Wicked tour.
The Westone Thunder Jet was crap. Muddy sound, badly made, kept falling to bits during gigs, the jack socket would always short out and the knobs fell off. Noddy, who used to do my backline, would have to rebuild it every night ready for the soundcheck the next day. Eventually, through pure frustration, I delivered it a fatal pile-driver into the stage on the Brave New World tour, snapping the head clean off. The truss rod was just for show, and was only about 4 inches long, hence it snapping so easily.
The pedals were both Boss, the original DM-2 analogue delay and a CE-2 chorus. Both ended up pummelled to bits through extended and incessant clog blows to the metalwork. Have a look at the Marquee video to see the sort of pounding they got. I replaced them with whichever evolution of delay and chorus Boss did next, including their first digital delay (DD-1) and a CE-3. As they fell to bits, the numbers kept going up.
I chopped in the Trace Elliot with John Henry's in Holloway for an old Hiwatt, initially with a Marshall 4 x 12 and a Fender 2 x 15, but as I was able to accumulate more Hiwatts (3), so I decided to trade up the mismatched cabinets for a pair of Ampeg SVT810Es, as Stuart had raved about the Hiwatt/Ampeg combination after using it at a festival in Rotterdam in 1983. Best sound he ever had, apparently, so I'd have been mad not to adopt it. Best sound I ever had... and still have, if only the one stack these days.
I replaced all of the basses with Fender Precisions, although I too bought a Kay copy from a shop in Swindon, and made that into a fretless myself. I still have it in my loft. £89 of pure crap, but with amazingly powerful pick-ups. There was another Westone, because No Rest needed 22 frets, but that too was rubbish, and eventually I worked out that retuning the G to an A made life easier, so it was binned off somewhere.
Hope this is of some help. I've not seen Stuart in about 5 years so I can't ask him for any further detail.
-
Don't you just love it when Mr Harris pops in now again to give us these insights :)
-
Hope this is of some help. I've not seen Stuart in about 5 years so I can't ask him for any further detail.
Moose, thank you *so* much for this info it is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for, very kind of you to chip in. I'm a big fan of your NMA material also, saw you live many times back in the day and I came close to filling your shoes in '89 when you left - Rob told me about you tuning the G to A for No Rest :-)
I was thinking of buying a Westone Thunder Jet, I always thought that was the key factor in Stuart's tone and now you've made me reconsider. From what you're saying a real mix of basses were used for those two albums of Stuart's. So a Westone was used to record No Rest, the 6 string Shergold on Grandmother's footsteps... what about Frightened and My Country, any idea?
It's that chimey, punchy, in-your-face tone of Stuart's I'm looking to get. I didn't think a Precision (real or copy) would get me there - unless you know Stuart actually used his Kay copy - with frets – on the albums? I see him using it on The Tube and the Marquee gig unused footage.
Anyway, cheers again, and much respect.
Jon
-
Thanks for great info Moose.As a bass player I too found it really interesting and on this board actually I searched for NMA gear sometime but seems like not many detailed stuff about it on previous posts.If Im not wrong Stuart was playing in a band called "Into The Souls".Dont know much about it but I found this web site and they have a contact option as band here.And 3 songs included from their album.
https://www.bandmix.co.uk/stellaman2/
All NMA bass players were and are great.Everyone who played bass in this band created a different point of wiev to bass guitar playing in my opinion.
-
This thread has made my month. Cheers all.
-
Don't you just love it when Mr Harris pops in now again to give us these insights :)
Yeah, that reading was amazing, thank you so much Mr Harris !
-
I would love to see transcriptions or lessons. All of NMA's bassists have just been wonderful, and learning to play some of those lines would be delightful. Let us know if anything comes of this.
And Moose, dude! Thanks for sharing!
Why this nerdery you ask? Well I am a big fan of his work with New Model Army and I am thinking of recording some covers for YouTube, perhaps also transcribing his bass lines and recording lessons etc if there is interest. I think he's a massively underated/largely unknown British bassist yet *those* basslines and *that* tone really are something special. His tone is so striking and unique that I'd like to get as close as I can. I might also record some of the Moose era stuff but Stuart's tone is harder to get right.
-
I saw/used/ended up with a lot of Stuart's old gear when I joined. I even ended up borrowing his stuff for my first audition, which became a little embarrassing when he turned up at the rehearsal room looking for it.
Stuff the was around in June 1985 included:
A Kay's catalogue Fender Precision copy, which he kept, along with a Sharwood 6-string bass (of the sort Peter Hook used a lot) for Grandmother's Footsteps. The fretless at that stage was an Aria Pro II, which ended up with just one string for the cello bow stuff on Shot 18, and there was some other Aria bass lying around that I can't remember.
He also had an old Carlsboro (Stingray?) head and an unbranded 4 x 12 cabinet originally, and these were used on the early recordings, but following the signing of the EMI deal he bought possibly the worst Trace Elliot stack in the world. A 500 watt head, with a 2 x 10" speaker and a 20" bass bin. It was hopelessly unmatched and blew up on me 3 times in 6 days on the second leg of the No Rest for the Wicked tour.
The Westone Thunder Jet was crap. Muddy sound, badly made, kept falling to bits during gigs, the jack socket would always short out and the knobs fell off. Noddy, who used to do my backline, would have to rebuild it every night ready for the soundcheck the next day. Eventually, through pure frustration, I delivered it a fatal pile-driver into the stage on the Brave New World tour, snapping the head clean off. The truss rod was just for show, and was only about 4 inches long, hence it snapping so easily.
The pedals were both Boss, the original DM-2 analogue delay and a CE-2 chorus. Both ended up pummelled to bits through extended and incessant clog blows to the metalwork. Have a look at the Marquee video to see the sort of pounding they got. I replaces them with whichever evolution of deli and chorus Boss did next, including their first digital delay (DD-1) and a CE-3. As they fell to bits, the numbers kept going up.
I chopped in the Trace Elliot with John Henry's in Holloway for an old Hiwatt, initially with a Marshall 4 x 12 and a Fender 2 x 15, but as I was able to accumulate more Hiwatts (3), so I decided to trade up the mismatched cabinets for a pair of Ampeg SVT810Es, as Stuart had raved about the Hiwatt/Ampeg combination after using it at a festival in Rotterdam in 1983. Best sound he ever had, apparently, so I'd have been mad not to adopt it. Best sound I ever had... and still have, if only the one stack these days.
I replaced all of the basses with Fender Precisions, although I too bought a Kay copy and made that into a fretless myself. I still have it in my loft. £89 of pure crap, but with amazingly powerful pick-ups. There was another Westone, because No Rest needed 22 frets, but that too was rubbish, and eventually I worked out that retuning the G to an A made life easier, so it was binned off somewhere.
Hope this is of some help. I've not seen Stuart in about 5 years so I can't ask him for any further detail.
Dear Mr. Harris, :)
If you ever write a book about your days as a musician and member of NMA (etc.), I would seriously (what an incredible understatement that is) love to purchase a proper, legit copy of it. Not only are you a phenomenal bass player, you've got terrific writing chops too! Hope you'll pop in to let us know if and when. It'd be an absolute thrill, joy! Just one request though... please, make it long, and I mean really LLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNGG, the more recollections, stories and tech bits, the better! I'm asking because I know I'll end up reading it in one sitting! And that's coming from someone who does very little reading, but where NMA or music is concerned, it's a whole other story. I love music and you guys / NMA.
So great to see you around these parts, surfing these waters with us. Your posts are always incredibly fascinating, insightful, informative and engaging. Thanks so much for working on T&C, "White Coats" especially, because that was my introduction to NMA, when I got hooked (for better or worse) on you guys / NMA.
Hope you're doing well and have a wonderful day. :)
Very best to you,
always.
8
-
Got a suggestion for you, Raw Melody Man - have you considered trying to get hold of a Westone Thunder II bass as alternative to the Jet? Speaking as the owner of one, they're pro-quality instruments (more akin to Aria Pros, which were made in the same factory) with a through neck, an onboard pre-amp, coil tap and phase switching. The only slight drawback is that the neck pickup placement means that popping is a bit constrained but it is just about possible to play "Heroin".
-
Got a suggestion for you, Raw Melody Man - have you considered trying to get hold of a Westone Thunder II bass as alternative to the Jet? Speaking as the owner of one, they're pro-quality instruments (more akin to Aria Pros, which were made in the same factory) with a through neck, an onboard pre-amp, coil tap and phase switching. The only slight drawback is that the neck pickup placement means that popping is a bit constrained but it is just about possible to play "Heroin".
I used to have a Thunder1A, in fact I played it with the band when I auditioned. Yes the Thunder II is even nicer and they go for lots of money these days on Ebay. Sound wise though, given the wide range of basses Stuart used on record that Moose mentions above, I am discovering that technique and EQ are probably the two most important factors (apart from the FX of course).
-
I would love to see transcriptions or lessons. All of NMA's bassists have just been wonderful, and learning to play some of those lines would be delightful. Let us know if anything comes of this.
Ok, I am starting by uploading bass covers - no point in recording detailed lessons/transcribing tabs or whatever if there isn't much interest so I'll see how this goes in terms of views/comments etc. over the coming months. I'm sure some folk will be able to pick up stuff from these close camera angles anyhow, and slow down if need be. Plus my bass sits on top of the mix so its much easier to hear than the bass on the original album.
To begin with I have uploaded covers of Frightened and No Rest, IMO two of Stuart's trickier numbers, full of great licks:
Frightened
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNEJe_KvC3g
No Rest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWOdQ1QRYcI
I'm looking at doing something from Vengeance next, maybe the title track or maybe Running in the Rain as that's another corker that no one has covered on Youtube.
-
Wow RMM, appreciate the time and effort that must go in to this, really helpful thanks for sharing.
Cheers
jc
-
RMM, you make that look easy - and I am sure its not !
Are you Mr. Morrow under a pseudonym ;)
-
Good stuff there, RMM - look forward to the next instalment! I know what you mean about the going price for Thunder IIs and IIIs, I paid a couple of hundred for mine (with hard case) off a friend in the early 90s and even allowing for inflation since then, it was a bargain. I think I need to have a serious try at getting "Waiting" right...
-
Dear Raw Melody Man, it was absolutely mesmerizing to watch your videos, thank you for sharing! Do give us heads up if/when you have more of this stuff out :)
Also watching you play made me miss my bass... Maybe, just maybe, after manymany years, it's time to pick it up again...
-
I also want to add a huge respect and thank you for sharing this. It was a pleasure to watch and listen, and i could say i did watch & learn ;-)
I do or shall i say did play some bass myself, never had any lessons and was playing for many years with my friends in a purely improvising set up. I left them in kind of a typical stupid, arrogant creative dispute and the reason why i'm writing this here is that, after like 20 years, today is the day that i'm going to have a session again with them :D
And yeah Tarsier, very cool that you also have a bass and you should go and pick it out again!
-
I also want to add a huge respect and thank you for sharing this. It was a pleasure to watch and listen, and i could say i did watch & learn ;-)
I do or shall i say did play some bass myself, never had any lessons and was playing for many years with my friends in a purely improvising set up. I left them in kind of a typical stupid, arrogant creative dispute and the reason why i'm writing this here is that, after like 20 years, today is the day that i'm going to have a session again with them :D
And yeah Tarsier, very cool that you also have a bass and you should go and pick it out again!
Awesome, I bet after 20 years, whatever disputes you might have with your friends, will be less stupid and arrogant ;D I hope you all will have some great time! 8)
And yes, I have a bass...only minor problem is that it's in Finland :-\ Maybe it starts to be time to go and visit, after, what, three and a half years? Damn... No wonder my mom is pissed off :-[
-
Well thank you very much for your kind comments and support everyone, I do appreciate it. This is a labour of love and it would really help if any of you guys could just hit the like button on my videos, maybe even the subscribe button. As this is a new project with low no's of views I am ranking pretty low on searches - even though these are the only bass covers on Youtube of these songs as far as I can tell. Getting more views/higher rankings will inspire me to work out and demonstrate more of this fantastic bass work. Cheers again :-)
-
Very nicely done.
-
And here's my latest, the mighty Ambition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhwinDlG36Y&feature=youtu.be
Stuart knew how to have fun with the bass, I can tell you that.
-
Another Sterling effort RMM, they really help me appreciate the song from another angle, keep it up and thanks.
Cheers
jc
-
Cracking job there, what's planned for the next one?
Been having a muse on what Moose said about Stuart's Trace Elliot stack and its propensity to blow up after watching the ToTP footage again, and I suspect the thing that was wrong about it was having a pair of 2x10s on top. I don't claim any great expertise on TEs beyond owning more of them than I really need at present, but I think the AH500 head was intended to drive a 4x10 cab (300W) and either a 1x15 or a 1x18 (200w). The 10" Celestion speakers TE used come in both 50W and 80W, so were the 2x10s the less-powerful 100W version?
I also used to own a Carslbro Stingray combo (Stuart had the separate head from what I can tell from early live photos), I recall the five buttons on the front acted like a pre-set graphic equaliser - I'm guessing they were frequency boosters, only one could be activated at a time. My memory of it was dub deep bassiness on the left end, toppy nasal sound on the right, and enough thump to bring down part of the bathroom ceiling at my parent's house!
-
It's like that old adage...Q "how do you get a great rock drum sound?" A "Get a great rock drummer" No offence to Moose, Nelson or Ceri all of whom I love dearly but no one will sound like Stuart except Stuart no matter what equipment you are using.
-
Cracking job there, what's planned for the next one?
Cheers Winterwulf! Not sure yet, I've had a request to do Drag it Down but I might give No Rest a rest, so to speak :)
Maybe one of the fretless ones off Vengeance or possibly Running in the Rain, love the bass on that one.
-
Mesmerizing stuff RMM.
-
Going off at a slight tangent, while delving around in a bag of old tapes in my garage loft the other day I came across one I'd forgotten about completely - a live recording from Leicester Poly from November 1984, probably bought off a bootleg seller around 25 years ago. Had a listen to some of it today after digging out a working tape recorder and it's not too bad quality other than being very toppy; I suspect it was recorded on a walkman. I've vague recollection of there being a few recordings kicking around from 1985 gigs, but I don't think I've ever come across an earlier live recording than the one I've got.
I guess it might be possible to improve it a bit if converted to digital and reprocessed to bring the treble levels down, I do need to get a tape to digital converter and get some of the stuff I've got on cassette saved. Finding time to do it is a different matter...
-
My latest cover is Betcha:
https://youtu.be/I9CG082Oh3c
-
Great stuff again! :D
-
I've got Mooses 72 Precision still with Batman Sticker - of Green + Grey video fame..
-
I've got Mooses 72 Precision
'73...CBS era, quite a chunky neck, but made from a decent bit of wood, so has great tone.
Kinda miss that one, like I miss the Hiwatt and Ampeg I sold, but where would I keep them all? I have 15 guitars and basses as it is.