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General Category => New Model Army => Topic started by: Gaijin on September 15, 2024, 05:04:17 AM

Title: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Gaijin on September 15, 2024, 05:04:17 AM
I went looking or this.  :(
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Master Ray on September 15, 2024, 07:58:16 PM
TLOHC is an odd album for me...  I remember feeling vaguely disappointed by it when it first came out (probably because Impurity is still to this day my fave NMA album) and yet, as the years have gone on, I've grown to bloody love it (still think that b-sides from this era were better than some of the stuff on the album but whatever)  ;).  Maybe not Top 5 but certainly Top 10.

Were you expecting some 30th anniversary reissue?  Please clarify.
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Gaijin on September 15, 2024, 10:06:27 PM
^^  Yeah, an expanded edition for the occasion of it's 30th Anniversary could have been interesting.

I was also unamazed by the album when I bought it on release. As I could only find the original cassette at the time the album didn't get much play time until I bought the CD years later.

It's a good album though perhaps some of the B-sides should have had a spot on it. Now it doesn't really matter as I can build a playlist from my rips and re-sequence it.

Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Guillaume on September 16, 2024, 04:18:53 PM
It's an excellent album the first four tracks are especially impressive!
And i like how the album sounds, punchy production!
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: MickC on February 02, 2026, 08:10:12 PM
Can somebody tell me what were these impressive B-sides from TLOHC. It’s one of my favourite albums so I’d love to hear other tunes from that period.
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Master Ray on February 02, 2026, 11:37:53 PM
Can somebody tell me what were these impressive B-sides from TLOHC. It’s one of my favourite albums so I’d love to hear other tunes from that period.

Certainly, Ghost Of Your Father and Modern Times were b-sides from 'Here Comes The War' and Drummy B (Billy McCann Version), Marry the Sea and Sleepwalking are taken from 'The Ballads EP' (aka the Living In The Rose single).    All available on  the 'B'Sides And Abandoned Tracks' album if you can find a copy...  ;)
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Winterwulf on February 03, 2026, 08:24:08 PM
Certainly, Ghost Of Your Father and Modern Times were b-sides from 'Here Comes The War' and Drummy B (Billy McCann Version), Marry the Sea and Sleepwalking are taken from 'The Ballads EP' (aka the Living In The Rose single).    All available on  the 'B'Sides And Abandoned Tracks' album if you can find a copy...  ;)

Or if you want to go looking for something seriously hard to find and bloody expensive if you do find one, they were on the extra disc  of the original vinyl release of "Strange Brotherhood"... 'B'Sides does occasionaly come up on Ebay (but usually pricey), you may be better off looking for the original 12" releases or CD singles!

Also, I was really surprised that "Knife" never made the cut for TLOHC - I thought it was great when I heard it live in December '91 at Bradford Queens Hall then it disappeared without trace until resurfacing on "Lost Songs" a decade later.
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Master Ray on February 03, 2026, 10:54:28 PM

Ah, Knife, that's a tune and a half!  Certainly should have been a b-side at least!
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Winterwulf on February 04, 2026, 09:01:24 AM
. 'B'Sides does occasionaly come up on Ebay (but usually pricey).

This is about as cheap as you're likely to find it these days: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/267558142411
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: cthulhu on February 05, 2026, 05:36:57 PM
I expected it to be worse, but i think it's not that bad of a price. At least my collectors brain tells me that. ;) And yeah..have to listen to Knife again...love that song...
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: cthulhu on February 05, 2026, 06:14:40 PM
Ok..went for Knife...and it is on Lost Songs..(and a long time later... while listening to the music in the background...i resdicovered Burning Season and Coming Up..kind of forgot about these songs..
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Gaijin on February 06, 2026, 12:20:29 AM
In addition there's the excellent, perhaps forgotten, collaboration with Sir Tom Jones on an interpretation of Gimme Shelter.   
It appears to have been released in April of '93 during, though not part of, the album's promo cycle preceded the Living in The Rose single by some months.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWK1F1b5uRg

I'm still curious about the version of Drummy B that came before the Billy McCann version. Was it an instrumental or did it have different lyrics?
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: cthulhu on February 06, 2026, 07:14:25 AM
In the sleeve of the B-Sides it says:
Drummy B (Billy McCann Version) - from the Ballards Ep - 1993
These weren't the original Lyrics which everyone liked except Justin. He decided to make it the song about Belfast that he'd been trying to write for years.

I don't know this Ballards Ep and the recordings of the song i have are on B-Sides, the ocean rising CD 1, sullivan and friends (maybe the same recording) and on the 30th anniversary concerts.

Quote
In addition there's the excellent, perhaps forgotten, collaboration with Sir Tom Jones on an interpretation of Gimme Shelter.

Is there any single version release of that song out there?
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Gaijin on February 06, 2026, 09:00:06 AM
^^ Right. I didn't actually pull out the CD insert and do my reading.   ;D

'Ballards' is surely a typo?





Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: cthulhu on February 06, 2026, 09:34:04 AM
It seemed strange to me, but if my eyes don't betray me..it says Ballards and not only once..

(https://i.postimg.cc/rwFQQ0BY/ballards-klein.jpg)
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Gaijin on February 06, 2026, 11:02:13 AM
https://www.discogs.com/master/138478-New-Model-Army-Living-In-The-Rose-The-Ballads-EP

It's a typo for sure.

I put the Tales of the Road and the Ocean Rising live recordings of Drummy B into a DAW side-by-side for comparison.
They are different recordings though neither release has any venue details.

Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Winterwulf on February 06, 2026, 03:19:13 PM

Quote
In addition there's the excellent, perhaps forgotten, collaboration with Sir Tom Jones on an interpretation of Gimme Shelter.

Is there any single version release of that song out there?

Dragging my mind back over thirty years, my recollection is that this was on a charity album (for the UK homeless charity Shelter) where different artists contributed their interpretations of "Gimme Shelter" but I could be wrong about that after this length of time!
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: huwcamden on February 06, 2026, 05:53:26 PM
The video to the "gimme shelter" single is fantastic...it was shot on Shepherds bush green just Infront of the shepherds Bush empire on a beautiful sunny spring morning in 1993...Rob Heaton is in particularly good spirits!
I think it must have been something that their management arranged without much band consultation as Justin says he didn't understand why his band had been paired up with Tom Jones for this single!..Tom takes it well really though..explaining he has been playing with bluesy rock and roll bands his whole career and that's how he started out...which is cool as f**k I reckon.
Sad to see 30 years later the homeless problem is no better though...Infact considerably worse.
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: cthulhu on February 06, 2026, 06:03:29 PM
https://www.discogs.com/master/138478-New-Model-Army-Living-In-The-Rose-The-Ballads-EP

It's a typo for sure.


Oh no, please don't tell me that, i just spent 225€ for the limited edition of:
The Ballards Ep
Tracklist:
- The Ballard of Bodmin Pill
- Ballard (exclusive Whirlwind-best-version-ever-mix)
- Lust for Powder
- No Restroom
- See You In Hellsinki


Maybe i made a mistake..
 ;)
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Gaijin on February 06, 2026, 09:02:03 PM
https://www.discogs.com/master/138478-New-Model-Army-Living-In-The-Rose-The-Ballads-EP

It's a typo for sure.


Oh no, please don't tell me that, i just spent 225€ for the limited edition of:
The Ballards Ep
Tracklist:
- The Ballard of Bodmin Pill
- Ballard (exclusive Whirlwind-best-version-ever-mix)
- Lust for Powder
- No Restroom
- See You In Hellsinki


Maybe i made a mistake..
 ;)

Lust for Powder   ;D
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Gaijin on February 06, 2026, 09:09:54 PM
The NMA/TJ collab is on these releases:

https://www.discogs.com/master/549717-Various-Gimme-Shelter

https://www.discogs.com/release/1555897-Various-Gimme-Shelter-Alternative

https://www.discogs.com/release/683715-Tom-Jones-The-Definitive-Tom-Jones-1964-2002

The second link has some resales listed for decent prices. Get them while they're cheap(ish).

The Tom Jones box has loud mastering. Also track 4.08 is TJ with The Wolfgang Press as his backing band. (They're a favourite of mine too).

Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: cthulhu on February 07, 2026, 08:10:42 AM
Wow, thanks a lot, very good sources of information. And i checked out the link with the resales, but i won't go for it. I was more curious about the release but the site you linked seems like a very good organized place, if you search for something. Never been to Discogs before. Very cool feature, that you can choose the country of an offer. For Germany there is one CD available, abou 12€ including shipping, but for GB there are even more cheaper ones available, for a shipping to germany you must include VAT.

Quote
I put the Tales of the Road and the Ocean Rising live recordings of Drummy B into a DAW side-by-side for comparison.
What is a DAW?
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Gaijin on February 07, 2026, 01:39:39 PM
Wow, thanks a lot, very good sources of information. And i checked out the link with the resales, but i won't go for it. I was more curious about the release but the site you linked seems like a very good organized place, if you search for something. Never been to Discogs before. Very cool feature, that you can choose the country of an offer. For Germany there is one CD available, abou 12€ including shipping, but for GB there are even more cheaper ones available, for a shipping to germany you must include VAT.

Quote
I put the Tales of the Road and the Ocean Rising live recordings of Drummy B into a DAW side-by-side for comparison.
What is a DAW?

DAW = Digital Audio Workstation
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: cthulhu on February 08, 2026, 03:50:03 PM
Ah, ok..so you compared the waveforms or did you listen to it concurrently? Anyways..the question remains: what are the original lyrics?.....
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: MickC on February 08, 2026, 06:40:33 PM
Thanks for all of your replies. I’ve heard most of the songs from B-sides and abandoned tracks but I somehow thought there were other songs unheard. Knife is the one song I’m not acquainted with so I’ll look for that one.

 I’m glad I’ve given you lot something to chat about. Please keep the NMA family informed.

Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Gaijin on February 08, 2026, 11:59:49 PM
Ah, ok..so you compared the waveforms or did you listen to it concurrently? Anyways..the question remains: what are the original lyrics?.....

I did a side-by-side comparison of the waveforms and toggled between the recordings while playing. The same instruments in the same places. I was quite interested to see just how close the two recordings are (The time keeping is so tight) - speculating to myself that EQ and compression on the live Bside could bring it very close to the live album version.

Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: cthulhu on February 10, 2026, 05:42:42 AM
Thanks for all of your replies. I’ve heard most of the songs from B-sides and abandoned tracks but I somehow thought there were other songs unheard. Knife is the one song I’m not acquainted with so I’ll look for that one.

 I’m glad I’ve given you lot something to chat about. Please keep the NMA family informed.

I's on Lost Songs, great compilation..
Disc 1
1    Brother
2    Sunset
3    South West
4    Song to the men of England
5    Refugee
6    Higher wall
7    Far better thing
8    Rainy Night 65
9    Caslen
10    Bd 7
11    F (Sharp) NY
12    See You In Hell
Disc 2
1    Freedom
2    Wanting
3    Still here
4    If You Can't Save Me
5    Falling
6    Trees in winter
7    Knife
8    Burning Season
9    Coming up
10    Over the wire

I just totally dislike Over The Wire in that mix (think its called french remix) on the Album.

You can listen to Knife here:

NMA - Knife
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXJ5vvoA6JE&list=RDhXJ5vvoA6JE&start_radio=1
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Gaijin on February 10, 2026, 07:25:13 AM
All Over The Wire (French Mix) done by Nemo Sandman aka Sebenza (I can't remember the person's real name)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_YRgddtnq8

He did mixes of other tracks and directed some more NMA videos

Examples:
A symphonic mix of White Light
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC7E8DJAyEw

A remix of Over The Wire
https://www.discogs.com/artist/361474-Sebenza

Videos

WWTG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwMaTZInxGo

Over The Wire (Live)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3eBqETmxjI

Purity (Alternate)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6wXLFzB8yA

Refugee (Remix)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEG9BpCh-B4

51st State (Alternate)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rzYvW8vwrk



There are others no doubt.
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: cthulhu on February 10, 2026, 08:05:57 AM
Great gathering of information, thanks Gaijin for your effort!
I saw some of the videos before, just had a look into older ones and it totally reminded me of my experiments in the vhs days..bad quality;-) and the huge logistic effort to prepare and synchronize images. I also did a video to Wipeout later, still on analog equipment, shot on DV but edited on an analog workstation around 2002.

But i think that Nemo didn't do the French Mix he just made the video to it.

BTW..did you ever compare and analyze the differences of the Carnival Redux versions? I'm still blown away by this transformation of the sound and feeling.
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: Gaijin on February 10, 2026, 02:11:32 PM
Great gathering of information, thanks Gaijin for your effort!
I saw some of the videos before, just had a look into older ones and it totally reminded me of my experiments in the vhs days..bad quality;-) and the huge logistic effort to prepare and synchronize images. I also did a video to Wipeout later, still on analog equipment, shot on DV but edited on an analog workstation around 2002.

But i think that Nemo didn't do the French Mix he just made the video to it.

BTW..did you ever compare and analyze the differences of the Carnival Redux versions? I'm still blown away by this transformation of the sound and feeling.

I'm certain Nemo Sandman did the remix.
BTW - his real name is Jean Manuel Moreau. His name appears in the liner notes for the Anthology DVDs (which you can see in this link: https://www.discogs.com/release/8541096-New-Model-Army-Anthology-1980-2010/image/SW1hZ2U6OTgzMTg0OTk= )


I've not compared Carnival to the Redux version in the same way. I appreciate the differences on both but the songs from Carnival work best live IMO.
It's standout feature of Redux is the inclusion of Stoned, Fired and Full of Grace IMO - Previously a track that JS & Friends played on tour in 2004 and on RSC Vol 5
Title: Re: The Love of Hopeless Causes 30th
Post by: cthulhu on February 15, 2026, 11:08:25 AM
In the description of the Video "All Over The Wire" it says:
Music by Endir
Images Emm Wood and Nemo Sandman
Directed by Nemo Sandman


so i thought Endir is the music artist.