The official NMA board
General Category => New Model Army => Topic started by: Knievel on September 26, 2013, 12:16:24 AM
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I keep reading, and not just in the Dog Wolf thread, '...best album since 'Thunder...'' and I don't know why...for me each album since Thunder has been better than the last one - why do you all like Thunder so much more than Eight or Hopeless or any of 'em?
My fave -I've not heard Dog yet, is Today is a Good Day - Am I missing something? I mean, sure Thunder was great back in '66 or whenever it was but when I play it these days it doesn't hit me like the records from the last ten years do...why is Thunder still so great - tell me people...
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For me, it was my introduction to the band. That's the big one.
I was heavily into metal at the time and this album completely opened my eyes to a world of great music that I'd never given a chance to before.
The other reason it's held in such high regard is because it's a timeless classic. I still think it's one of the best albums of all time, as do many of us here.
It's both accessible and deep at the same time.... something someone can hear once or twice and enjoy it but if they listen to it more, it becomes even better and the true beauty and the craft of masterful songwriting reveals itself.
And it hits me the same today as it did when I first became obsessed with the band.
Timeless. Classic.
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Pretty much what Brian said. It elevated the band to a new level and introduced them to a whole new audience. It's easy to forget that it wasn't all that popular with many of the following when it came out. Seen as too commercial and folky. Just goes to show. Ed's support slots on the tour weren't always well received either.
I was blown away by it from the first moment I heard it. Everything just came together on that album; the songs, the sound, the lyrics, the artwork and the artistic growth. BDAW reminds of that.
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I would agree with Knievel. Thunder was the first NMA album that didn't hit me on first listen, it took a bit of time to grow on me. I eventually came to love it, but with the passage of time it's probably the NMA album I listen too least. 225, Vagabonds and I Love The World still blow me away live, but even Green and Grey doesn't move me as it once did. Never get bored of listening to Carnival, though. If I have to pick a favourite, that would be it.
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I have a similar story to a couple of the posters on here. I was discovering NMA through friends and going to the clubs in Manchester The Banshee and funnily enough The Ritz on a Monday nights and liked the songs I heard them play in these clubs mainly it was 51st State, Smalltown England & Vengence. A friend had leant me the albums Vengence and No Rest For The Wicked and as time went by owndership gradually transferred to me and they became mine :)
Thunder & Consolation was the first album that came out when I was already a fan as oppossed to being a fan and working my way through the back catalogue. So I was excited and anticipated it's release. I bought the vinyl from a record shop in Manchester called Eastern Bloc, which used to be in Afflecks Palace, took it home and put it on the turntable and loved it straightaway. I spent a whole afternoon playing it over and over again. I loved the more folky approach and loved the use of the violin.
To me every single track on the original vinyl was excellent (I know that the CD version now has a few additional tracks) Each track seems to sit in exactly the right place on the album and compliments those preceding and following it.
It is an album that I have returned to over and over again in all the ups and downs of my life over the last 24 years.
I believe it is one of the best albums ever written.
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I'm with Ifran, I don't dislike T & C but it is far from my favourite. Carnival, High and Strange Brotherhood have that honour although BD&W is flying straight in there.
I think it is simply having heard it too many times, when I used to dj I was always playing Vagabonds or Stupid Questions or something else off T & C and it was almost like everything up to that point was wiped out by many people. Older and wiser I realise of course that these weren't fans as such but people who bought the record. having said all that 225 is still possibly my favourite NMA track of all time and actually I adore everything apart from the 4 big ones.
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why is Thunder still so great - tell me people...
Because ALL the tracks on this album are for the worst good, very good and for the best awesome!
I love the world
225
Green and grey
Ballad of Bodmin Pill
Family
Family Life
Vagabonds
Because the lyrics of this album are great, because the sound of the album is great too.
I never skip one song when i listen to "Thunder and consolation" ( same for "The Ghost of Cain"), unlike most of NMA's last albums.
Green and Grey doesn't move me as it once did.
I've listened to this album hundreds and hundreds of times but each time i hear the thunder/rain/voice/guitar intro of "Green and Grey" it gets me everytime...
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Every NMA album has songs on it that I skip. Sometimes because I don't like them but mostly because they don't fit the mood I'm in.
T & C is probably the album I would consider their best overall. However, it's not the one I listen to the most. Carnival, TIAGD and NBTS are my most played albums followed by High and Eight. Many of the later songs seem more relevant to my life than the old ones. That's why I'm not too nostalgic about the early NMA period. I'm happy that I got to experience it but I'm excited about the present and the future.
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Carnival, TIAGD and NBTS are my most played albums followed by High and Eight.
For me it's "Thunder", "Navigating by the stars" and 'Ghost of Cain"...i never skip songs of these albums, they seem to me very coherent, accomplished albums from start to end.
I skip very few songs on "High" ( "Nothing dies easy", "Breathing" at times) and "Eight" ( "Stranger", "Paekakariki Beach") both of these albums are IMO near the top of NMA's career with the albums quoted above.
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Many of the later songs seem more relevant to my life than the old ones. That's why I'm not too nostalgic about the early NMA period.
A bit the same for me (even if i still listen regularly "Thunder"...), some of NMA's most recent work like "Eight", "High" or "Between dog and wolf" (and of course "Navigating by the stars"...) reveal somewhat more mature and subtle songwriting from JS.
Showing my age here, I suspect, but....I'm pretty stunned nobody's mentioned No Rest.
Very good album with very good songs on it but i don't like too much its sound production, very 80's..
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Showing my age here, I suspect, but....I'm pretty stunned nobody's mentioned No Rest.
To me No Rest was a bit of a letdown after Vengeance very much like Impurity was after T&C. I'm not a muso but I think it may have been the sound or the production. Individually I love just about all the songs but as an album it never really fired for me.
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I was a bit of a sullen youngster in a screwed up house who had just discovered the Clash and the Pistols.
On a late night t.v. video show Vagabonds came on- I was transfixed. Straight down to Moondance in Peterborough (Canada) the next day to grab the cassette (an early audio recording format). From that moment on no other music has ever spoken to me as deeply. The combination of cerebral poetry, punk anger and the bravery to use whatever musical form necessary regardless of "scene" and sheer beauty I've not heard elsewhere.
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I love 'Thunder'... but I do prefer 'Impurity'. That probably comes from the fact that my first NMA gig was on the Impurity tour... a true life-changer.
That and I also think that Impurity is a bit deeper and darker than Thunder... the music is quite a bit more diverse, throwing the band into new musical territories. 'Eleven Years', 'Before I Get Old' and 'Space' are three of my favourite NMA songs ever.
But still, Thunder is still an amazing album...
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Showing my age here, I suspect, but....I'm pretty stunned nobody's mentioned No Rest.
Maybe it's just that it was very much of its time, dark and angry, and even the quieter moments were outward-looking rather than personal, but - holy hell - what a record.
I totally agree....it's my fave album but I suspect BD&W will change that.....10 or so listens and it's revealing its true majesty. There's nothing between any of the other NMA albums for me....just always loved NRftW especially!
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Ah, thanks for all the replies - sure I get it that it might have been the first for some folk - in a way it was a second first for me - I was/am a vegan activist/anarchist anti corporate beast - these days I buy my boxers from TK Maxx and I have 'become what we despise' but don't let that spoil my spiel here - There was something wrong for me with NMA signing to EMI and so I missed No Rest and Ghost and it was only after an intensely incredible performance at the 1989 Reading fest ( where I'd gone purely for the Pogues who were magnificent - Spider Spider Spider!!!) that I realised I could not live without NMA and that they have reasons for signing with EMI which are none of my business and so I got down the Morrissons tunnel near the Bus Station in Preston and busked enough money for Thunder and, yeah, me too, I was blown away. Great Lp
It's a great LP from a time when LP's were 40 minutes long.
And what I'm hearing here is that it's a record that doesn't have tracks that maybe you'd skip - ok ok ok, I don't want to ruffle feathers, it's all cool but please let me quite heavily and drunkenly say that if Strange Brotherhood were released in 1989 it would not have one track on it that you could skip. All pre 90's records were either 40 minutes or a double Lp of 80 minutes long. On these terms, Dog would be 40 minutes long - it wouldn't have Kneievel on it and I'd be here nameless...
Like I said - I'm not just hearing it here: this 'best since Thunder' - It's been journalistic speak for years and me I stick with the truth that New Model Army's finest LP was released yesterday not twentysomething years ago
Love on yas brothers and sisters
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Listened to T&C in the van on the way home tonight and was again struck by how great a record it is... I wasn't in a position to be surprised by it when it was released, as I was still in short trousers and listening to Tina Turner with my Dad then. However, I think that it's a masterpiece in so many ways. There's such a burst of creativity captured therein, but not just in terms of feeling but songwriting too. The arrangements are sublime and the sound very powerful without being overcrowded (recorded on tape!) and dynamics were not sacrificed in the name of cleverness.
I'm not sure if it's my favourite NMA album, as Ghost Of Cain, No Rest, Vengeance and Strange Brotherhood all compete with it strongly, but if I had to pick a defining NMA moment it would be Green and Grey being played during the 30th anniversary shows in Nottingham and it reducing me to tears in a heartbeat.
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Like I said - I'm not just hearing it here: this 'best since Thunder' - It's been journalistic speak for years
Just lazy journalistic stuff who probably never listened to NMA's albums since "Thunder"...another review in a german magazine proclaimed that BDAW was NMA's best album since "The love of hopeless causes".
IMO BDAW is slightly better than TIAGD so i'd say that "it's NMA's best album since HIGH" ;)
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IMO, Thunder & Consolation is a perfect album, full of rage and passion.
Fantastic, energetic, poetic....
Intense and powerful music.
The whole album is very consistent, and all tracks are "flowing".
A classic one !
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In my opinion T & C stood out as the previous 3 LP's, Vengeance, No Rest and The Ghost of Cain were of a similar vein and probably from The White coats ep which was the release before T and C they started to move in a different direction. I myself loved it for lot's of reason some very personal and since then although I liked Purity, Love Of Hopeless Causes and TIAGD it still ranks as my favorite release. Although I was still buying the CDs and going to watch them through Eight, Carnival and High, they were never popular with me. I can't compare it to the new Lp as I don't get paid until next week
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IMO, Thunder & Consolation is a perfect album, full of rage and passion.
Fantastic, energetic, poetic....
Intense and powerful music.
The whole album is very consistent, and all tracks are "flowing".
A classic one !
I would personally have to agree with this post as for me it's their most complete work to date!
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I think it was the perfect amalgam of the themes the band had been developing up to that point. It was an album at odds with the world it percieved around it. They had always sung about political/coorporate abuse, and also the self imposed limitations of British lack of imagination/aspiration, but T&C really drew those strands together and showed how difficult it is to balance ambition and conscience, and how to make peace with the hypocricy most must exibit in both disliking, and being part of, a societal structure we dont feel really works.
To this day, the lyrics in all the songs are possibly even more relevant now than when released.
I was 15 years old when it came out, and growing up in a welsh town near the mountains, knowing that I would have to leave to make a life for myself after being spat out of school, it spoke so directly to me at the time that I looked to it for comfort as others may look to a religious text for guidance in troubled times.
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I don't have much to add beyond I just like it the best. It's my favorite rock album of all time, and 225 is my favorite rock song of all time. I still get chills when I hear it start up.
I had Ghost of Cain first on second or third hand cassette, then by chance found Thunder and Consolation cassette around its time of release (and eventually both on cd). I was very hesitant to search out more, because I had been burned many times (and have been since) by thinking one great album by a band would lead me to other good works by that band. I listened to both of those albums more than any other I had combined, and that probably holds true to this day.
I actually didn't acquire any more NMA until around the time of Eight, when I found the NMA website and shop, and ordered the whole lot of them. Then came Lost Songs, Navigating By the Stars...
Not one NMA album I don't look to, but Thunder and Consolation is still my favorite.
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I think it was the perfect amalgam of the themes the band had been developing up to that point. It was an album at odds with the world it percieved around it. They had always sung about political/coorporate abuse, and also the self imposed limitations of British lack of imagination/aspiration, but T&C really drew those strands together and showed how difficult it is to balance ambition and conscience, and how to make peace with the hypocricy most must exibit in both disliking, and being part of, a societal structure we dont feel really works.
To this day, the lyrics in all the songs are possibly even more relevant now than when released.
I was 15 years old when it came out, and growing up in a welsh town near the mountains, knowing that I would have to leave to make a life for myself after being spat out of school, it spoke so directly to me at the time that I looked to it for comfort as others may look to a religious text for guidance in troubled times.
Very well said.
"Thunder and consolation" is a bit NMA's bible! ;)
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I was 15 years old when it came out, and growing up in a welsh town near the mountains, knowing that I would have to leave to make a life for myself after being spat out of school,
Same here - but I didn't manage to get away. Where were you living then? Wish I'd had T and C then to listen to and absorb.
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fascinating thread, T&C is a classic by any band's standards, but I too love the later material - Carnival has always been a big favourite, with Eight and SB once I got it. The new album is growing on me by the day, had it on loud as hell tonight, and the power is like it's on delay, you don't get it the first few listens, it comes through like a great curry, not after the first mouthful but once you've had a few and it's got to work. Many if not most of NMA's albums are, for me, masterpieces, BDAW is joining that illustrious output. There is no one but no one else out there who for me make such great, meaningful, poetic, melodic, thought provoking yet stirring music and I doubt there ever will be. Roll on the tour dates. Lucky Europe getting first dibs
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Thunder and Consolation was my introduction to New Model Army - four years ago. Took me a little while to "get" it, but I did like it immediately.
When I heard No Rest and Ghost of Cain, I liked them better, for a while. I think, actually, every NMA album has gone through a period of being my favourite. Except TIAGD, which for some reason, I like but don't love. Maybe I need to listen to it a bit more frequently!
But... T&C is usually the album I play when friends are interested in hearing some NMA for the first time. I've converted quite a few this way, too. ;D
It's also the album I sent to a friend when he was going through a rough time, and he sent me a heartfelt message thanking me, and saying how much it had helped... and it's since become one of his favourite albums.
There's something special about it.
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Same here - but I didn't manage to get away. Where were you living then? Wish I'd had T and C then to listen to and absorb.
Llandudno in North Wales :)
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Llandudno in North Wales :)
I'm in Newtown, mid Wales, so I know what you mean. There's very litle round here to keep the young in the area. Of everyone I went to school with that I'm still in touch with or know of, only one other person is still in the area.
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As someone who spent so many childhood holidays in Llandudno, can I just say I love that town...
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Its an amazing place. Very lucky to have grown up there. But there was very little to do in the teen/tweenage years other than smoke weed, drink, fight, and if lucky, get laid. Not that such things are without merit or enjoyment, but it just gets to be limiting, and every weekend is just a mission to punish your physiology into oblivion.
And as for work, if you were lucky enough to have a job that didnt finish with the end of the tourist season, then you got treated like shit, and paid like a slave, because they knew you could not risk leaving or losing a full time job as they were so scarce.
Everyone else signed on, worked cash in hand for the hotels and tourist traps in the summer, and then lived on supernoodles and luck from October to Easter.
I ended up going to the local tech college and learning a trade that led me to work in Cambridge. In the first week I was here, I saw more jobs advertised in shop windows than there were cards in the 'dudno job centre.
My parents still live back there, and I visit a few times a year, and its always lovely to go back to the old stomping ground, but its a lot better being a visitor than an inmate ;)
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T&C was simply the first album I ever heard from them. I remember like yesterday that someone gave me the record and said "listen to it, you'll love it". I did, like a couple of times, before I finally started loving it. Soon after that, the first concert in June 90 and off we go. Never lost track of the band since and still meeting the same guy on concerts occasionally.
For me, T&C is the gateway and additionally hosts one of my all-time favs: Archway Towers.
Anyway, if I would have to pick a favourite album, it would be No Rest. BDAW yeah, too.
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Picking an album from you past can involve a bit of self adoration. I think this may be partly why Thunder and Consolation is regarded so highly (as well as it being a superb album).
When I think back to first hearing and loving that album, I am also thinking back to the time I was in my late teens, and at the prime of my young life. People tend to look back on that period of their life with nostalgia.
Its a bit like, people of my my parents age now in their 60s always seem to go on about how good the 1960s were. People 10 years older than them may well say the 1950s,were better, 10 year younger, the 1970s, etc.
Are we always remembering the things we liked and were better then, or are we remembering what it felt like being 18 years old ? Its a bit like which is your favorite James Bond.? As a 1970s youngster, for me its Roger Moore.
For many, T&C was there first encounter with NMA, and it will always have that extra special place of fondness for it.
I heard the first three at around the same time and No Rest has always been my favorite. When I was most into that album in the late 1980s, I was on the dole, and I related very much to the lyrics, especially, Young Gifted and Skint. It is still my favorite of the 12 studio albums, but I accept this choice may be heavily laden with sentimentality, and also the fact that I have been listening to it for over 25 years.
When my elder Son started to show an interest in NMA, my first reaction was to lend him T&C, which he did like. I lent him a couple more, and he picked Eight as his favorite. To him at the time, all fresh music.
When (god willing) I have been listening to BDAW for 25 years and old and decrepit, by then, that may well be my favorite album when I think -- Oh to be in my 40s when I could still see this band live and my legs still worked. :D
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I think it’s hard to divorce what you think of certain music and records and how they effect you, from your own life experience, and who you were and ‘where’ you were, when you first got into them. T&C had strong songs, but more than that there was subject matter in the lyrics that no other band at the time would go anywhere near, or if they did, were able to capture with anything like the same level of sincerity, conviction and intensity. It made everything else seem superficial and irrelevant. There were hints of that on the earlier albums, undoubtedly yes, and more to follow on the later ones. But for me it was the first time one of the albums (and therefore the band) stood out not just as better than everything else but in a completely different league.
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Picking an album from you past can involve a bit of self adoration. I think this may be partly why Thunder and Consolation is regarded so highly (as well as it being a superb album).
When I think back to first hearing and loving that album, I am also thinking back to the time I was in my late teens, and at the prime of my young life. People tend to look back on that period of their life with nostalgia.
Its a bit like, people of my my parents age now in their 60s always seem to go on about how good the 1960s were. People 10 years older than them may well say the 1950s,were better, 10 year younger, the 1970s, etc.
Are we always remembering the things we liked and were better then, or are we remembering what it felt like being 18 years old ? Its a bit like which is your favorite James Bond.? As a 1970s youngster, for me its Roger Moore.
For many, T&C was there first encounter with NMA, and it will always have that extra special place of fondness for it.
I heard the first three at around the same time and No Rest has always been my favorite. When I was most into that album in the late 1980s, I was on the dole, and I related very much to the lyrics, especially, Young Gifted and Skint. It is still my favorite of the 12 studio albums, but I accept this choice may be heavily laden with sentimentality, and also the fact that I have been listening to it for over 25 years.
When my elder Son started to show an interest in NMA, my first reaction was to lend him T&C, which he did like. I lent him a couple more, and he picked Eight as his favorite. To him at the time, all fresh music.
When (god willing) I have been listening to BDAW for 25 years and old and decrepit, by then, that may well be my favorite album when I think -- Oh to be in my 40s when I could still see this band live and my legs still worked. :D
That is so true. I always list as three of my favourite albums Thunder & Consolation, The Queen Is Dead by the Smiths and Strange Times by the Chameleons. All three of those albums came out when I was in my teens and I love them as much now as I did when I bought them all in the mid/ late 80's.
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ok, thanks to this thread, i've given another listen this week to "Thunder and consolation" even if i've already listened to it hundreds of times and even if i already knew it, yeah, indeed, it's NMA's best album...EVER.
I can't believe the level of songwriting on this album, the skills of Justin, Robert and Jason...and the sound...and the lyrics...and the various and beautiful, intense feelings you have listening to it.
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To me No Rest was a bit of a letdown after Vengeance very much like Impurity was after T&C. I'm not a muso but I think it may have been the sound or the production. Individually I love just about all the songs but as an album it never really fired for me.
I'm pretty much the opposite on both counts. I find it impossible to compare Vengeance with anything that came after it, it's just too different. I'm a bit the same with both Wire and Devo's first two albums. So I think No Rest is the first "proper" NMA album and, as such, perfectly sets the stage for what comes after. i.e. I think it make sit easier to get into T&C. In turn, T&C makes it easier to appreciate Impurity, which for me is NMA's best album.
IMO, Thunder & Consolation is a perfect album, full of rage and passion.
Fantastic, energetic, poetic....
Intense and powerful music.
The whole album is very consistent, and all tracks are "flowing".
A classic one !
I would personally have to agree with this post as for me it's their most complete work to date!
Again, I'm the complete opposite. I think T&C has some of NMA's best songs - I Love the World is one of my favourite songs of all time - but it also has some very forgettable songs on it. I never skip tracks but if I did I reckon I'd skip more on T&C than pretty much any other NMA album (not counting Eight and Carnival, where I'd skip the whole thing).
Overall I do like T&C, it would probably scrape into my Top 5 NMA albums, and it is definitely from the time they were at the peak of their powers. I prefer to be entertained by lyrics, rather than moved by them, so the lyrical content is not overly important to me. e.g. I love the first It's Immaterial album because the lyrics are funny, not because of what they are trying to say. When it comes to NMA, I'm all about the energy, anger and intensity and there is more of that on several other albums.
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Being honest, I think Thunder was the first album where lyrically Justin hit his stride across the whole length of the album.His writing matured. The musicality of the album was also more diverse than previous albums. They played 'Archway Towers' at the Manchester Ritz a couple of weeks ago and it still has such power. I think the subject matter of the album was wider and they hit every target. Prior to Thunder, I thought 'Vengeance' was going to be the best they ever did as a complete collection, but I have been proved wrong numerous times since.
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well Thunder and Consolation was the 1st album I bought from the band. And the most incredible thing is that I picked it up among many others in a vynil shop in Innsbruck. I had no idea what it was and I was 18yo at that time (I am now 40). So for sure this is a special album to me. But something which always happened to me with all NMA albums (not with the most recent ones though. let say from Carnival........) is that they grow in me listening after listening. All of them. Also those of which I tought in the beginning they were not that special.............same for this last one. The first time I heard good songs (as Justin said less guitar oriented sound etc......) then the songs took shape in my head and heart and soul...........
simon
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for me its not just one of my all time favourites for the music,it brings back happy memories of a part/time of my life that was carefree,like a good flashback ,like a soundtrack to a great time in your life :)
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Definately a top NMA album for me. I loved the production on that one. It had a bigger sound than any of the previous lps. And not a weak tune to be found!
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I think it's a remarkable album. i became a fan shortly after the release of High. T and C was actually the first album i heard of the band. It was a little late but i thought it was brilliant. Because of it I bought all of the albums and became obsessed with the music.
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for me its not just one of my all time favourites for the music,it brings back happy memories of a part/time of my life that was carefree,like a good flashback ,like a soundtrack to a great time in your life :)
Totally agree with this statement. I can think of albums that aren't very good but I love listening to them because they take me back to a much happier time... for example, I'm a huge Bowie fan and I recognise how many classics he's made, but I really like 'Never Let Me Down', which is generally considered to be one of his worst... what can I say, it takes me back to the late 80s where I had some of the happiest days of my life with some of the best friends I ever made...
Oh, it's so long ago now... :'(
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The american writer Kevin Brockmeier loves NMA and THUNDER AND CONSOLATION:
http://www.oxfordamerican.org/articles/2010/dec/02/contributor-q/
What musician or band is grievously underrated?
Do you have a few hours? To name one—and just one—of many, the great British post-punk band New Model Army, whose best album is 1989's THUNDER AND CONSOLATION; who're still writing their impassioned pugilistic questing anthems of rage and hope after thirty years; and who really should have been U2.
"Archway towers" one of the 1OO best London songs, according to TimeOut!:
http://www.timeout.com/london/music/the-100-best-london-songs-98
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The american writer Kevin Brockmeier loves NMA and THUNDER AND CONSOLATION:
http://www.oxfordamerican.org/articles/2010/dec/02/contributor-q/
What musician or band is grievously underrated?
Do you have a few hours? To name one—and just one—of many, the great British post-punk band New Model Army, whose best album is 1989's THUNDER AND CONSOLATION; who're still writing their impassioned pugilistic questing anthems of rage and hope after thirty years; and who really should have been U2.
A great article, but NMA should have been U2?
Nah, I'd have hated to see Justin titting about in wraparound shades in front of pretentious video screens whilst wearing a glitter-suit whilst throwing out patronising sound-bites aimed at the cause-of-the-week...
;D
"Archway towers" one of the 1OO best London songs, according to TimeOut!:
http://www.timeout.com/london/music/the-100-best-london-songs-98
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I mean, sure Thunder was great back in '66 or whenever it was but when I play it these days it doesn't hit me like the records from the last ten years do...
I've gave copies of the cd to three friends of mine who didn't know NMA, because i said to myself the general consensus is that "Thunder and consolation" is NMA's masterpiece for the lyrics, the melodies, the sound, the musicianship ...strangely enough ANY of my friends liked the album :-\ :'( but two of them liked "Navigating by the stars" and "Vengeance" for the "raw, punk sound" (according to a friend)...they didn"t like the lyrism vibe of "Thunder"...
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T & C could have become, and in some peoples eyes has, the album by which everything that came after was judged against. The album was more focused lyrically and still had an anger that was later tempered or delivered in a more measured way. Its my personal favourite as it came at a time of turning points in my life, so it is connected to memories, good and bad, that will live in me forever. All the following albums also hold a connection to a time, place or events in our lives I'm sure but T & C seems to hold a special place in a lot of peoples hearts.
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T & C could have become, and in some peoples eyes has, the album by which everything that came after was judged against. The album was more focused lyrically and still had an anger that was later tempered or delivered in a more measured way. Its my personal favourite as it came at a time of turning points in my life, so it is connected to memories, good and bad, that will live in me forever. All the following albums also hold a connection to a time, place or events in our lives I'm sure but T & C seems to hold a special place in a lot of peoples hearts.
This!
T&C is still probably my favourite for this reason, the only album I play more often is 'Big Guitars in Little Europe', as I love the acoustic side of the band... The first acoustic EP 'Better than them/No sense/Trust/Adrenalin' was like being hit by a bolt of lightning for me, it changed everything.
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I tihnk so many people have said that T&C is held in such high regard as it was the album that changed them or that it was around when they were at a significant part of their lives. I think there are other albums that are perhaps as good as T&C but it is the fact that this album came out when it did that makes it so endearing to so many fans.
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Next month will be the 25th birthday of THUNDER AND CONSOLATION's release in the world...is there a plan for a special re-relased of the album??? ;)
From an amazon.com reviewer:
"The Ghost of Cain is "Rubber Soul," and Thunder & Consolation is "Sgt. Pepper".
8)
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that is a good comparison ;)
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25 years ago WOW... I wish I knew then what I know now ;)
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Ok am gonna add my 2pence worth Ok I've been lucky enough to have been a fan since 84 I always find it impossible to the favourite album thing but for me the first 6 albums are all totally excellent What i would say about T&C it was the first NMA album to have a couple of songs i wasn't too keen on The flip side being it also has a lot of songs that would easily make my favourite NMA top 20/30 songs White Coats and Green and Green are 2 of my all time fav songs Strange Brotherhood and Eight are probably my least listened to NMA albums don't get me wrong they both have some great songs I really believe that from Carnival to BDAW the band have taken on a new life and have released another 4 brilliant records I think that Marshall has been an important and excellent addition to the band.
Ok you might agree with what I've posted you might not but everyone has there own opinion that's what the forum for. Thanks for reading anyway
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Thunder and Consolation is my favourite NMA album and is, for me, the best album ever made. Ever.
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25 years ago WOW... I wish I knew then what I know now ;)
What would you do different ??
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Thunder and Consolation is my favourite NMA album and is, for me, the best album ever made. Ever.
I think it is the best NMA album, and the one I always recommend people to try, but at the same time my personal favourite is No Rest. If that makes any sense :-\
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25 years ago WOW... I wish I knew then what I know now ;)
What would you do different ??
I'd have not drunk as much for a start, not married the ex, gone to more NMA gigs!
Listened to people whose advice I ignored from the age of about 14 to 43
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hmm, I would probably drink more than I did back then. Still waiting for some good advice, but I agree, should have done more NMA gigs in the past,, but there is plenty of time to make up for it ;)
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T and C is my favourite album by N M A but love the acoustic work they have done
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Thunder and Consolation holds a special place in my heart because it was the second album I purchased and I thought the first few songs were so powerful and the album was so well recorded. I loved Ghost of Cain(my first NMA album) but Thunder sounded better to me. Now it doesn't seem to matter anymore which is the best as I have so many favorite songs from so many of the albums and each new album brings more songs I can't live without. I must be obsessed!!
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https://www.sputnikmusic.com/list.php?memberid=1053649&listid=177125
This album is a monolith. An idea of releasing 15 songs (or even 19, depending on what version you have) on one album is surely an ambitious one, so you better make sure that they are as good as they can be. The band took the aimless catchiness and compositional raditude of their earlier work, instrumental variety of their more experimental phases and bold anthemic conceptual ambition to push Post-Punk forward into more ambitious and monolithic horizons. This album can go from grandiose to sensual in seamless transitions and still possess a certain smooth slickness. It is a magnetic and pulsating record that strikes with its instantly memorable songwriting and overwhelming nature.
Go-to tracks: I Love the World, 225, Green and Grey, Family Life, Vagabonds, Archway Towers, The Charge, White Coats
8)
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Happy 30th birthday THUNDER AND CONSOLATION!!:
https://rockandrollglobe.com/folk/celebrating-30-years-of-new-model-armys-thunder-and-consolation/
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Question here... does anyone here regard the 'best' version of T+C to be the UK CD version that had the extra tracks on it?
And I say that who bought the original 10-track album on vinyl but quickly replaced it with the CD with those lovely extra tracks... and now it seems a bit short without them... ::)
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https://www.sputnikmusic.com/list.php?memberid=1053649&listid=177125
This album is a monolith. An idea of releasing 15 songs (or even 19, depending on what version you have) on one album is surely an ambitious one, so you better make sure that they are as good as they can be. The band took the aimless catchiness and compositional raditude of their earlier work, instrumental variety of their more experimental phases and bold anthemic conceptual ambition to push Post-Punk forward into more ambitious and monolithic horizons. This album can go from grandiose to sensual in seamless transitions and still possess a certain smooth slickness. It is a magnetic and pulsating record that strikes with its instantly memorable songwriting and overwhelming nature.
Go-to tracks: I Love the World, 225, Green and Grey, Family Life, Vagabonds, Archway Towers, The Charge, White Coats
8)
Its just a go to album :) :)
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Followed the sputnikmusic link and thought, something is wrong ..
My old lp has 10 songs, last one is one of my fav - Archway Towers
And my old later published cd comes along with 15 tracks,
My 2 cd-version with 24 tracks is a remastered version with bonus tracks and 5 live versions of the old lp tracks
I love the old lp (and Family and Bodmin Pill and ....)
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I have often wondered what is said at the begining of "Family"???
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I have often wondered what is said at the begining of "Family"???
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It's just studio chatter.
You can clearly hear Justin say, "I don't know. Maybe I should come in this..."
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I have often wondered what is said at the begining of "Family"???
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It's just studio chatter.
You can clearly hear Justin say, "I don't know. Maybe I should come in this..."
Sounds more like "I don't know, maybe I should come and listen" to me. That's also more likely if in a recording studio.
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Hi,
I've always heard it as "I don't know, maybe I should come in a little bit...." ie come in a little bit earlier but then the music then kicks in.
Cheers,
Zen
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It's just studio chatter.
You can clearly hear Justin say, "I don't know. Maybe I should come in this..."
Sounds more like "I don't know, maybe I should come and listen" to me. That's also more likely if in a recording studio.
More likely?
Uh, the "more likely" is what I hear. Musicians in a studio ask that question - when should I come in - more than they ask any other question in the studio. Just curious, have you ever been in a recording studio?
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Hi,
I've always heard it as "I don't know, maybe I should come in a little bit...." ie come in a little bit earlier but then the music then kicks in.
Cheers,
Zen
That's what I hear to.
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It's just studio chatter.
You can clearly hear Justin say, "I don't know. Maybe I should come in this..."
Sounds more like "I don't know, maybe I should come and listen" to me. That's also more likely if in a recording studio.
More likely?
Uh, the "more likely" is what I hear. Musicians in a studio ask that question - when should I come in - more than they ask any other question in the studio. Just curious, have you ever been in a recording studio?
Ok, so what would the next words be if he said "I don't know, maybe I should come in this..." ? That line of thinking would make sense if he said "maybe I should come in at this..", as that could be followed up with the word point. "Maybe I should come in at this point", or this chord, or this drum beat or whatever. But without the addition of "at" or "on" this, it doesn't really make any sense.
However, "maybe I should come and listen" could very well mean him referring to going into the control room to listen to a bit of playback.
Anyway, I guess only Justin knows exactly what he was saying, even if he can remember !
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Ok, so what would the next words be if he said "I don't know, maybe I should come in this..." ?
without the addition of "at" or "on", it doesn't really make any sense.
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"I don't know, maybe I should come in this time a little earlier."
Uhh, is English your first or ninth language?
Not that hard to come up with things that make sense.
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Ok, so what would the next words be if he said "I don't know, maybe I should come in this..." ?
without the addition of "at" or "on", it doesn't really make any sense.
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"I don't know, maybe I should come in this time a little earlier."
Uhh, is English your first or ninth language?
Not that hard to come up with things that make sense.
Ok, I'll give you that, but it would be more common in English to say "I should come in a little earlier this time", than the more unwieldy sounding "I should come in this time a little earlier".
Bored of arguing about this now anyway. I still hear it as "maybe I should come 'n' lis..."
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I was trying to think earlier of other examples where studio chatter could be heard during recording and not only heard, but adopted as an intro to a song on an album?
In my very narrow musical taste, the only thing i could think of...... (i was thinking for no more than a minute by the way) was The Clash and Card Cheat......(im sure Whirlwind will correct me here), but doesnt Joe Strummer say "not right start all over again"???
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All I can add is... 'Thank you, son, whose next?' ;D
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I was trying to think earlier of other examples where studio chatter could be heard during recording and not only heard, but adopted as an intro to a song on an album?
In my very narrow musical taste, the only thing i could think of...... (i was thinking for no more than a minute by the way) was The Clash and Card Cheat......(im sure Whirlwind will correct me here), but doesnt Joe Strummer say "not right start all over again"???
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Right band, wrong song. It was The Clash, but the song is "Wrong 'Em Boyo."
Early Elvis has a song where he stops it, talks to the band, and then restarts the song: "Milkcow Blues Boogie"
There are a million songs that have "1-2-3-4" count ins. Technically that is studio chatter.
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Hey Whirlwind,
I knew you were a big Clash fan so thanks for the correction.
Can i just say one thing (which is probably gonna get me in a whole heap of trouble) - dont ever disrepect my friends on here again .. just dont do it. You know what im on about. Joke or no joke - dont be prick all the time.
Regards
Matt
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Sounds more like "I don't know, maybe I should come and listen" to me. That's also more likely if in a recording studio.
Almost right, it's "I don't know, maybe I should come in and listen".
He was in the studio and wasn't sure whether what he was doing was working, so he came into the control room to listen. It did, and we kept it. Sawmills '87 if memory serves.
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Sounds more like "I don't know, maybe I should come and listen" to me. That's also more likely if in a recording studio.
Almost right, it's "I don't know, maybe I should come in and listen".
He was in the studio and wasn't sure whether what he was doing was working, so he came into the control room to listen. It did, and we kept it. Sawmills '87 if memory serves.
Cheers for that Moose ! :)
At least that's cleared up that little debate. And nice to know my ears are still working, even if I couldn't quite discern the "in". ;D
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Maybe already posted but here's a nice video about THUNDER AND CONSOLATION:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6S4KYGpFx4
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Here's a nice, personal, touching review about the album:
https://www.sputnikmusic.com/review/84339/New-Model-Army-Thunder-and-Consolation/
Another review:
https://www.alltime-records.com/01-albums-0005/0005297.php
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Here's a nice, personal, touching review about the album:
https://www.sputnikmusic.com/review/84339/New-Model-Army-Thunder-and-Consolation/
Another review:
https://www.alltime-records.com/01-albums-0005/0005297.php
Nice, thanks!
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Interview for the THUNDER AND CONSOLATION american tour, in 1989:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-05-09-ca-3101-story.html