The official NMA board
General Category => New Model Army => Topic started by: Amandistan on May 16, 2015, 02:22:36 PM
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I often read people say that Carnival is their lease favorite album. I admit that it's nothing like the older albums but still a wonderful album. Another Imperial Day is one of NMA's finest lyrical moments IMHO.
Then they have Red Earth, Blue Beat, LS43 and Island!
could someone please explain to me how people don't like this?
Or explain why you do like it?
For me it's one of their best.
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Really great this album, not my fave but better than Brotherhood to me.
The other day I listened to Ghost of Cain and this back to back, surprisingly it held up really well. Go and listen to them both together it's interesting!
Think it would be even stronger with the B-sides 'fall in love with' and 'One bullet' added, great songs these.
Overall not their best album but still a very strong one.
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Carnival was one of my interim albums, after drifting away from NMA after LOHC, for personal reasons not because of the music. I rediscovered it/NMA around 2009, which was again for personal reasons. Split up with my ex, saw em for the first time in Leamington Spa (after a disaster in Birmingham....long story). So I kinda rediscovered High, SB and Carnival all at once. At the time I didnt give it much of a listen cos it didnt hit me as much. Gotta say now it has some of my favourite songs on it. I think it holds its own.
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IMO, Carnival wasn't an album I disliked... I've never disliked an NMA album... it just didn't strike a hugely resonate chord with me like other albums did when it first came out. It was 'just another NMA album' (if such a thing exists...)
Recent listens have totally reversed my opinion. I now rate Carnival highly.
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Carnival is definitely another great nma album. If i remember at the time I was just coming out the other side of some personal issues and actually went to tour gig before i had heard the record n loved it straight away, i of course went out and bought the cd asap. Part of the problem is nma have so much brilliant material that we get spoiled for choice
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One of my favourite albums and a real milestone in their development. Even though they are constantly evolving, there seem to be 'leaps' in maturity where they really progress. BDAW and LOHC fall in the same category, IMHO. In contrast, High and TIAGD are more conventional (but I love them too).
Just my opinion though.
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This album is a bit special. I listen to it and like it, then leave it for a long time, forget about it, for some time, then re-discover it again.
At the end of the day, it cost me a few quid, the price of a pint and a half. those I piss away like they never happened.
Carnival I can re-discover for the rest of my short life again and again. I respect with absolute gratitude the chaps who wrote it for me (as one of many)
Although there are several songs I like and get now, I think the rest of the album I will get eventually.
I would like to thinK that is exactly what the writer had in mind at the time of writing.
Tonight in my local while waiting for my choice of NMA song to come on, we had to wade our selves through a lot of dance music. I looked at those who paid to listen to it, they were not bothered, or moved when it came on. When my songs came on by NMA, I felt justified by the pleasure they gave me for my un-popular choice.
If Carnival is , as it is, a less popular album, then it is to me at least, the lesser of two evils.
WE ARE ONLY MADE OF WAAARRTER.
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Red Earth, Fireworks Night, Carlisle Road, Island, Bluebeat all great songs that would make it on to any other NMA albums imo:)
not too keen on the opening couple of tracks though!
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I love Carnival :)
Red Earth (the drums, same shiver as Leeds Road..)
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Big themes on this record - maybe the finished mix was not perfect for the band ?
When you think about it, it has some huge classic NMA tracks !
Just turn up the vol to 11 on Carlisle Rd !
The idea of the Carnival of life and all it encompasses. I think JS had a go at a quasi-concept album and it 90% paid off.
It's a shame most people don't invest more time with this album.
The truism is that the ones you persevere with always end up being the most appreciated.
Plus as we know the more you listen to an album the more things click !
TXP
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Another Imperial Day is one of NMA's finest lyrical moments IMHO.
It's a great, bleak song, for sure.
I really liked "Carnival" first times i've listened to it but i don't know why, i became bored and i haven"t listened to it in years...maybe it's time to come back to it?
It has many good songs and moments but i don't know why, i don't think it "flows" so well..."Water" and "Prayers Flags" aren't especially great tracks, i think, though i like "BD 3", "Red earth", "Another imperial day" and the closer "Fireworks night".
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One of my favourite NMA albums of all time and always will be, will always come back to it, you need to play it fecking loud with loads a bass and let it wash over you, there's a lot of power in this album, and don't forget mosh favourite Island is on it, along with Another Imperial Day, and Bluebeat, and Prayer Flags, one NMA song I've never seen love sadly. Red Earth is just immense, that slow and steady build to a power chord climax.. What's there not to like??
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BD3 never seems to get any mention. I love that track. Great rhythm. Really benefits from being played loud.
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Carlisle Road.
Fantastic track.
When the album came out, my eldest was quite young. That track got to me; I wondered how I could protect him.
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Fireworks Night. Possibly Justin's best song ever!?
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Fireworks Night. Possibly Justin's best song ever!?
It's certainly up there with the best of the best.
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I've rediscovered Carnival recently,and there are some great tracks on it,i have fond memories because I did 7 gigs travelling around Germany and had a great time,i even started enjoying Honigdieb,the support act,great fun.
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Seeing as nobody had responded to this thread since 2015 (and it does seem to be somewhat the fashion to reactivate old and forgotten threads these days) how does anyone feel about 'Carnival' in the cold light of 2018? There are a few new regular posters... what's your opinion?
As I might have said before, it wasn't a favourite upon first release, but it's grown on me over the years. I now rate it highly, not least because of 'Too Close To The Sun' and 'Fireworks Night', two tracks that have become absolute favourites.
What do you lot reckon?
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Love Carnival..................Too Close To The Sun one of my fave NMA songs
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I wonder what I said back then , I need to look lol . Immediate thots I like it , i need to listen again before a detailed opinion
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i remember that i drove on the release date 40km to buy the album, went back to my car which was parked in an underground parking lot and couldn't wait to put the cd in and then water began...i was trhrilled instantly but also felt that the sound was a little bit strange and i couldn't get the rythm and melody but i somehow liked it, then the grooving beat of bd3 began, an instant love. prayer flags was too strange for me at that time, didn't feel it and skipped it and carlisle road was too slow, i wanted more.
red earth than was gigantic, this build up, the tension, the lyrics, just wow. too close to the sund, just wonderful but bluebeat again was interesting but it took a long time until i fell in love with it. another imperial day was great immediately again followed by a "i don't really know" ls43 and then island...i thought hell yeah, let the bass go wild and loose, i loved that bassline and nelsons playing so much on that track. fireworks night again was a little too sad for impatient consumption needs.
i love that album and meanwhile i love all of the songs. some more, because they meet my needs and some less but with a great respect which grew by hearing them over time differently.
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Nice review from a metal site:
http://www.metalstorm.net/pub/review.php?review_id=1670
And another, more mixed one on rateyourmusic:
rupertlenz Aug 12 2013 ▼ 3.00 stars
Why the "low" rating ?
I've had mixed feelings about "Carnival" since the very first listen,
and they haven't changed although I came to appreciate the album more in the meantime.
It's far from being a "bad" one (though my primary rating
was very low),
for NMA are too good a band to produce a genuine stinker.
Too good and, also, too honest in their approach.
But, let me tell you, to me, it's all about good songs.
I had become a fan with the underapprechiated "Eight"
and started buying their backcatalogue backwards,
finding many many great songs, even on their earlier albums
(with a very few exceptions I'm not into "Punk" at all,
so I'm preferring their stuff from "Thunder and Consolation" onwards,
but there's also a lot of class to be found on its predecessors !)
and on b-sides collections.
"Eight" - my favourite to this day - had the reputation of being a "weaker one",
partly due to low budget production (as opposed to "Strange Brotherhood")
and its lack of "straight in the face heaviness" in favour of subtlety and sheer songwriting-craft.
Robert Heaton was gone and Justin Sullivan, remaining the only original member,
somewhat needed to prove that they still "had it",
so this album rocks heavier again
and is aimed at satisfying their long term fans' expectations more than at developing further
from where the natural process had taken them to.
And that's the problem with it.
I'm not one of those who want a new album to sound
exactly like previous things only because I love them.
I didn't want Genesis to do another "Selling England by the Pound" in the 80s,
no matter how much I'm preferring that album to "Invisible Touch".
And having NMA rocking harder again was in no way something I thought of as being disappointing.
But...
the power was not there.
Don't get me wrong, the performances are all very good,
the production/sound is crisp and they still had the power to rock out,
but, during that time, there was no power left at all for writing the songs that were needed to meet that attitude !
No good songs ? How can Roopie say this ? Doesn't he listen ? Isn't "Water" a great opener ?
Isn't "Red Earth" a moody, melodic evocation into wonderful observations, exploding like a bomb at its fierce ending ?
Aren't "Too Close to the Sun" and "Island" supposed to be "NMA classics" ?
What the hell is he complaining about when listening to
energetic rockers like "BD3" or "Another Imperial Day" ?
How can he say there was "no power left" ???
Because, in one way or another, he had heard it all before,
from the same band, and he had heard it better.
I'm listening hard, actually. There are things so obvious
they don't escape my ears !
The power that I'm talking about is the power to create new tunes
and the only thing new about those songs
- apart from the lyrics - are unnecessary twists that had been added in order to make things more interesting.
I cannot listen to "Red Earth" without thinking of "Queen of my Heart".
It doesn't help that the ending is "new".
I cannot listen to "BD3" or, in fact, most of the other tracks,
without thinking "well, on Lost Songs they'd have had their rightful place, but on a new album they are bound to disappoint me".
The grooves, the riffs, the melodies...
all stolen from themselves ;-) !!!
"Water" is a promising good start, but even "Too Close to the Sun" - a great one in concert, as is "Island" ! - sounds like a rehash of old ideas, familiar effects, NMA recycled.
If I hadn't heard any other NMA-album before,
"Carnival" would have impressed me a lot and won me over, I'm sure.
If you don't know any other NMA-album this may be a good place to start and get to know them.
Everything is in here.
And it's pretty good.
It may even sound like a "best of" !
And that's the problem for me.
It's pretty good for a recycling-album with the band focussing on their "rocking hard-edge" -
hence yours truly having improved his rating to a three stars.
And it's not tuneless. Or bleak.
You can be very happy with it and I don't have a problem,
it's good music from start to finish.
But tell me what you want it's a recycling-album, still,
and that's not enough for me,
cause I had waited for a new one.
I had to wait until "High" until I finally got it,
so "Carnival" remains a transitional outcome
to please all those people who like to hear NMA in a familiar way and have them rocking...
Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all...
as it's far better to listen to NMA recycled than to Bon Jovi doing another "Living on a Prayer" or "Bryan Adams revamped Vol.30" any day.
But there's a slight taste of disapointment to sour my listening pleasure whenever I decide to play it,
cause me... I know... they can do better.
They can do far better.
So, no matter how good this may sound to you,
this wasn't "their best in 15 years",
they had always given their best before...
you ought to love everything else if you love this,
so don't wait nor hesitate, go and buy the albums where
most of those ideas have come from !
LOVE; Roop
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They can do far better.
So, no matter how good this may sound to you,
this wasn't "their best in 15 years",
they had always given their best before...
you ought to love everything else if you love this,
so don't wait nor hesitate, go and buy the albums where
most of those ideas have come from !
Carnival is one of my favourite NMA albums. However, most people would agree with you and the Facebook fan group members recently rated it their least favourite album, with Blue Beat the least favourite song (somewhat ironically, seemingly unwilling to find something new to fall in love with).
I know that it's pointless to argue about taste. An album either works for you or it doesn't. However, I find it interesting that you think Carnival is a rehashing of old ground because I don't hear that at all. (Personally , I felt that Eight was revisiting The Ghost of Cain era in some ways (but not in a bad way), maybe because of the similarities behind their creation). To me Carnival was a departure from their old sound and spirit, with the anger of the earlier albums giving way to a new sombreness. It felt new and different and I think that many people didn't appreciate that. Admittedly, it did take quite a few listens to get into and I still remember the moment I actually 'got' it. It's a great mood piece just like Between Dog And Wolf and Navigating By The Stars and I love to play those albums from beginning to end. It's probably no coincidence that they are usually the ones that top the 'least favourite' polls.
I consider myself lucky, that I genuinely like all sides and eras of NMA. In many ways their recent albums are more relevant to me than the early classics that first got me into them. I don't feel that way with most other bands from my youth so I do understand the sense of disappointment that people feel as bands mature.
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Carnival is one of my favourite NMA albums. However, most people would agree with you and the Facebook fan group members recently rated it their least favourite album, with Blue Beat the least favourite song (somewhat ironically, seemingly unwilling to find something new to fall in love with).
However, I find it interesting that you think Carnival is a rehashing of old ground because I don't hear that at all.
It's not my opinion, myself i like "Carnival" overall and among others the song "Blue Beat". ;)
It's just a review i've found rather interesting on rateyourmusic that i've posted here.
If one album is "rehashing old ground" in NMA's career it's rather "Winter", in my opinion.
To me Carnival was a departure from their old sound and spirit, with the anger of the earlier albums giving way to a new sombreness. It felt new and different and I think that many people didn't appreciate that. Admittedly, it did take quite a few listens to get into and I still remember the moment I actually 'got' it. It's a great mood piece just like Between Dog And Wolf and Navigating By The Stars and I love to play those albums from beginning to end.
https://board.newmodelarmy.org/index.php?topic=7725.0
I agree with you...yes, indeed, BDAW is also a great mood piece, NMA sounding different here with mixed results in 2013 among the fanbase :)...and "Navigating by the stars" is probably Justin's best album, his masterpiece, as good or maybe better than "Thunder and consolation". :)
(Personally , I felt that Eight was revisiting The Ghost of Cain era in some ways (but not in a bad way), maybe because of the similarities behind their creation).
I remember Justin saying himself in a french interview around "Eight"s release that this album was a bit like "The ghost of Cain", indeed...because it was a "straightforward, direct/to the point" album like "GOC" was...and unlike "Strange Brotherhood" which was a weird, experimental and not so accomplished album, according to Justin.
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Interesting to see the different opinions here and the roop-review of carnival has its points, but to me i see i totally different.
He wrote: The grooves, the riffs, the melodies...
all stolen from themselves ;-)
I think that is just wrong, but how to prove that?
He is complaining about, that he seemed to hear old tunes being "recycled" in the tunes, but that is just a very subjective opinion and though it is expressed in an objective way. I think i know what he means and i sometimes have these ideas too, when something reminds me of something, but to say the album is powerless and worse "idea-less" doesn't fit for me one second.
Theres one thing, which i wondered about for a time and its a good place to bring it now here:
I somehow feel that " eyes get used to the darkness" is kind of a very new version of "no rest"
I have the feeling that it is a deliberate thing. The drum pattern, the theme (guilt) really reminds me always of "no rest" and also how the intro is played live.
What do you think?
And i love carnival :-)
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I somehow feel that " eyes get used to the darkness" is kind of a very new version of "no rest"
Indeed. Also "Die trying" (which i like) sounds and thematically evokes "Higher wall". That's why i think "Winter" musically at times has a an air of "déjà vu" in NMA's career, a rehashing feel. Also I'm with the rateyourmusic's reviewer when he writes that he likes more subtlety in NMA's music than the "straight in the face heaviness"...among others that's why, like him, i liked "Eight".
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Also "Die trying" (which i like) sounds and thematically evokes "Higher wall".
I agree and also about your description of the album Winter, but not the word rehashing. To me it sounded deliberatly also very stron with die trying, because it also thematically like higher wall. So i think this is intentional.
And personally i like and need those differences of sublety and straight in the face and think this has always been a part of them.
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Aw, this is the mark of a great band... years and years after what's often regarded as one of their 'lesser' albums, we've all still got passionate opinions about it... :D
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It's not my opinion, myself i like "Carnival" overall and among others the song "Blue Beat". ;)
It's just a review i've found rather interesting on rateyourmusic that i've posted here.
I Ah, I missed that somehow, sorry!
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One of the best tracks of CARNIVAL edited on the gorgeous visuals of a classic italian movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP9cqGJ9D8o
BD3 never seems to get any mention. I love that track. Great rhythm. Really benefits from being played loud.
Yes it's a great track! the music, the lyrics and the cool video they shot for this song, in 2005/2006.
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BD3 never seems to get any mention. I love that track. Great rhythm. Really benefits from being played loud.
Yes it's a great track! the music, the lyrics and the cool video they shot for this song, in 2005/2006.
BD3 is one of my favourites from Carnival too (which I think is a great album). Here's that video :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAzNJQvtVJI
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My first fav is Red Earth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA76ncEKAQE
Beginning at 4:15
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Still remember the floor because of the drums - goosebumps ( like Leeds Road)
In this video Nelson is the 2. drummer ...
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I've said before that Carnival is my least favourite NMA album, but to be honest its abit like deciding which is your least favorite curry, I love a prawn korma but just not as much as a chicken Madras! It is an odd album in many ways but still contains my current favorite army track in Fireworks night , and island, BD3, water, all stunning. It contained the DNA you now hear in Between dog and wolf and now From Hear too.