The official NMA board
General Category => Everything Else => Topic started by: Pol on October 13, 2015, 11:11:53 AM
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Thought I would open this up for debate. Now before I begin I used to smoke cannabis fairly heavily for over 20 years but haven't smoked it for about 7 years.
So ok its looking ever increasingly likely cannabis will finally be legalized , which seems to have come a bit out of the blue, there is s large article about it in todays independent.
As per usual I will throw it open thoughts about opinions, before giving mine.
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Well. I'm afraid im in the no camp. In my experience, it doesnt help 'calm' anyone down. In fact, most of the fist users ive experienced smoke cannabis. Added to that, Im fairly sure that it will store up mental health problems in the future, especially for regular users in there early teens. I think its a dangerous path to tread. Who is to say in ten years coke isnt looking to be legalised. I get people having the odd joint. I have. I just think its a case of the Country can't control it, so lets give up.
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When I first looked at this I read it as "should cannibals be legalised" - now that's a whole other thing.
I've smoked the odd joint and am not against as such. However, perhaps the health aspects need to be more fully discussed and taken into account. My experience of every day long term users wouldn't lead me to support making it legal and therefore easier for everyone to get. One of them admits that his memory is completely shot and it's due to the weed. As for the other one it became more and more difficult to have a conversation with him and he's been unable to hold down a regular job since he became a heavy user.
So all in all I pretty much agree with Drummy B on this one. So the authorities can't control it, let's decriminalise it. We don't have the resources to police properly let's turn a blind eye to stuff - same rubbish way of dealing with things.
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the questions that needs answering are..'are people responsible enough' and are people prepared for the aftermath when you fail to hide the knives.
definitely in the no camp, the stuff has serious mental implications, if you're lucky you'll only get paranoid..is the odd puff ok?..is the odd pint?..:p
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I am in The Yes camp. I have been a regular smoker for over 30yrs and it is my quote "stimulant of Choice"
Now let me say growing up during the late 60's and 70's pretty much it was a right of passage just like drinking beer or wine underage or smoking underage. and I use to smoke cigarettes I gave that up many years ago Rather have the good herb.
I have been to Amesterdam and I will in a few weeks be going to Jamaica for vacation and most people know those are 2 big cannabis places.
Now let me say that the Pot laws in the US are a joke and they should have been changed and Pot should have been decriminalize Years ago.
I don't think I have to go thru which one is worse Cigarettes or Pot the documents are all there for anyone to look up. Pot does have it uses as people who use Medicinal Pot can attest to and the fact that more States Like Colorado are allowing the legal use it is only a matter of time before the laws totally decriminalizing the use of Pot are on the books. 8)
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There was a short period when I did it in early 2000's. It was rather trying it; wanted to know what it's about. I think I took it for 15 times in two or three months. I remember I felt dizzy for second day too. I gave it up. Found out it's not my sort of thing.
I'm a way too absent-minded anyway so hash wouldn't fit to me. I have some good friends who take it. It doesn't affect to a way I behave with them.
I think legalizing might cause many changes. In good and bad ways. What would former "criminals" then do? Who would be used, or who gets the profit? What would mafia-like criminal gangs then do? Start to rob houses?
I assume that perhaps a society couldn't react to a sudden legalization in a wise way so I'm in the "no" group.
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I dont want to sound like a square, but I too am a no! :)
For all the reasons above. Let me add some others can I? I've bored you for years that I am in engineering construction. That job takes me onto large construction projects, building petrol stations, working with the aggregates industries, doing work in food sites. Certainly with heavy industry and sites now drink and drug testing is becoming mandatory. A spliff believe it or not can be detected up to three weeks in a drugs test, cocaine for months.
The incidence of failures is above average in construction and mines/quarries, often with people who do dangerous (to everyone) activities. I don't think encouraging more of it is a good thing. And turning up on site to drive a Terex100 bonged out of your mind and telling the site operator "but it's legal maaaan" is not going to fly! ;)
ps, for real pain reduction though, I'm happy for it to be on the bloody NHS!
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Personally, it's one of those things I can take or leave. If someone has some, I might take a few drags, but I wouldn't buy it myself. It's nice and all, but not a big thing in my life.
The one thing I do not agree with is the whole 'gateway drug' thing. That's like saying every teenager who nicks a can of their Dads beer is going to wind up on a bottle of vodka a day. Ridiculous.
For my money, alcohol is far more of a problem than cannabis... have you ever seen anyone pick a fight because someone looked at their pint / spilled their bird after a joint or two? :D My town is awash with idiots who, on a Saturday night, just want to smack someone, anyone, because they've had a couple too many pints of Stella...
But... but... I have a friend, into his forties now, who used to be up for fun nights out with his pals and now just wants to spark up in front of his PS4, night after night after night... fine when you're a young fella (IMO) but when you're middle-aged.. ???
Well, that's me, getting off the fence and trying to pick splinters out of my butt-cheeks...
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Like many I dabbled with it in my late teens, in fact its what started me smoking, damn >:( Never became a big fan. Ale is my drug of choice.
I do believe it should be on prescription for those who find it helpful with certain conditions. I do know of an M.S. sufferer who finds it very beneficial.
I would be surprised if it were legalised. The powers that be are determined to end the smoking of tobacco, I cannot see them approving the smoking of something usually smoked with tobacco.
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I'm kinda on fence, a few years ago it would have been a massive yes. I can see the financial benefits of it not only from raising taxes but also saving money from the police courts prisons etc. If were going to allow alcohol and tobacco then surely cannabis is no worse. I don't really want my country to become a drug dealer but I guess it already is, I would rather see society get the money than criminals.
Some issues raised, banning it certainly hasn't stopped anyone using it and I totally agree there is health issues but then again alcohol and tobacco. It certainly can be smoked without tobacco and I believe it stays in your blood for a couple months. Yes certain occupations should be banned from using it, though maybe better testing , I don't think someone should lose their job if they smoked a spliff a month ago.
If it does ever happen then it should certainly have the same restrictions as alcohol
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maybe they should invent the e-spliff
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maybe they should invent the e-spliff
If I was you Shush I would trademark and patent that idea you might be on to something Big. look how big e cigs have become ;D ;) 8)
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I can understand folk being concerned about legalization for 'private' use, however for medical purposes I am very much in favour. I personally know several folk who have massively benifited by using it to ease the side affects of cancer treatment, severe back pain post an industrial accident and a friend who uses it to control spasms.
One thing I should mention is that the two folk I know who used it during cancer treatment, ingested it as opposed to smoking, and now don't use it.
Just a different point of view...
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There is already several ' herbal atomizers ' on the market. I'm no expert but I know there are ones where your only inhaling the thc content from the buds. Definitely agree on medical grounds . Would like to see it decriminalised for people who grow for personal use only maybe a few plants maximum
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maybe they should invent the e-spliff
If I was you Shush I would trademark and patent that idea you might be on to something Big. look how big e cigs have become ;D ;) 8)
In which case Im patenting the e-pint!!!
Hadnt considered medicinal 'erb. As i understand cannabis oil is beleived to have some properties. I dont know the facts but I beleive anything from a doctor is heavily regulated. If it isnt from a doctor then its an alternative medicine. I'll delay opinion until Ive read facts. But if theyre out there and accepted, I'll go with it.
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i'm totally on the pro side!
i've been using it fo about know...uhhmm, can't remember..it so affects your memory and your performance in society..wait...uhm..for almost 25 years on a daily basis. i am 41 now and what i wote before of course was a joke.
it's really simple.
fist step: i'm a human. i live on this planet. and no one can tell me what i have to like, use or whatever.
second step: alcohol is allowed. it's a dangerous drug. it has the effect of you have to use moe to get the same result when abusing ist. pot doesn't have that. it's not habit forming. so you cannot allow the one bad drug and criminalize the lighter one.
third step: you mustn't criminalize a plant. if you go into the history of the prohibition and illegeklization, you'll find out that there are more industrial interest in prohibiting the plant than you thought (i just watched a doku on arte about the sugar mafia, how they managed to influence public opinion about sugar. in the 60's and 70's it was discussed as a poison. now we have diabetes and cancer and other illnesses whichg are linked to sugar overdoses. the consumption of sugar has doubled in the last thity years. you should think about these poisons and ban them)
i see society becoming more and more a power driven, soulless thing where performance is seen as everything and everybody tries to augment themselves. no time for dreamers, no time for unproductivity, no time for just being.
most of the negative effects of pot ae linked to that kind of view.
i like being lazy. i don't have to give anything to anybody. and that's just taking the agument before it comes. i went to school again at the age of 38 and have learned another pofession, just because i's curious and stoned and stupid by that to do so. so i'm not that lazy.
i really see more problems of the illegal status of pot than the effects it maybe have if legalized. i have those problems but i won't brag about it now. there are many studies out there. everywhere improvement when legalized.
i know people who misused it and got paranoid. but hey just left it. i know people who want to quit alcohol but they can't.
in my years there wee always times of not using it. there was misuse too. but that's about character of the person and not the drug.
i
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Yes.
This plant was brought under the control of the Criminal Justice system in order to prevent the supply of Cannabis (ignore the rights and wrongs of that decision for now) and to reduce usage. That's why Cannabis is within the Misuse of Drugs Legislation.
Been an utter failure that idea hasn't it? What a fecking surprise! When has Prohibition ever achieved it's objective? Quite the opposite in fact. I can get my hands on anything from 1g to 1oz within an hour or so and from a number of "retail outlets". It's everywhere. 25 years ago there were only one or two "outlets" and stock levels were erratic and limited. Oh how the times change ;D
That policy has comprehensively failed. So how long do we keep wasting time, resources and money on this? Surely it is time to change direction and look for a different method of control that may achieve the desired objective? Quite frankly we are pissing good money away after bad.
The arguments against the use of Cannabis are actually health issues, both mental and physical. If we could change our angle of vision from criminal to health we might actually get somewhere in dealing with this in a realistic, pragmatic fashion but hey La-La land doesn't really exist does it?
When the dangers of smoking Tobacco were identified it was dealt with via health and licensing. Since then I believe there are progressively lower numbers of smokers. It would appear this approach may have some merit !
I am a very keen Gardener. Should I choose to I can grow Vitis vinifera, Humulus lupulus and Cannabis sativa. All 3 species will give me an end product which will get me off my tits. All 3 end products have associated risks of a broadly similar nature. 2 of those end products could win me awards, fame and fortune. The other could win me a few years banged up inside. Why?
The Human species has been getting out of it's head since we first came outta the trees. Always have, Always will. Why do we think we can overide what appears to be an intrinsic part of the Human condition? Seems a stupid idea if you ask me - which Pol did ;D .
Far better, methinks, to be open and honest with this and call a spade a spade. Whether or not to smoke a spliff is no more or no less a decision than whether or not to have a glass of wine or beer. Any of them could result in damage to the body or mind in a wide variety of ways. It's down to an individual to make their own decision.
But hey I had a beer while typing this and I may/may not have smoked a big fat biffta at the same time so what do I know :D
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The late Bill Hicks got to the heart of the matter pretty well. I'm paraphrasing but he said to imagine you're at some sports event. Two guys near you are raging at each other and violence is going to erupt any second. Have these two men been drinking or smoking pot ? He added that it's almost impossible for two stoned people to get into fistfights because before the first punch is even thrown, they forgot what they were fighting about. Since it seems alcohol does a lot more damage to the social fabric, it's pretty hypocritical to ban cannabis. I'll take the stoned guy driving 10 miles an hour over the drunk driver any day. The results of cannabis abuse seem to be vacuous stupidity. Back when I smoked too much of it I found myself doing things like leaving my wallet in the fridge. I also worked at a head shop for all of 3 days. That was my limit for the constant company of stoners. It's a grizzled old cliché but right - Everything in moderation. Definitely legalize it.
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Most people use cannabis without any problems. Some people do have problems with it. Are those problems best solved by treating it as a criminal issue or a social/medical issue? I'd suggest the latter and think it should be decriminalised
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"If it neither knocks me on the head or picks my pocket, then it is not my concern" - Thomas Jefferson. Good rule of thumb, that.
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Sometimes it makes me paranoid. Big whoop. I'm paranoid already
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Sometimes it makes me paranoid. Big whoop. I'm paranoid already
There's no need to be paranoid, pal, as I was saying to everyone else on this Forum when we were talking about you via PM's...
:o
;)
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I know. My dog told me.
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Yes. Alcohol is legal and it's much worse for you. Weed doesn't destroy your liver and make some people a violent idiot.
Nicotine is more addictive and it's legal.
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I used to be all in favour of legalizing it. Now I'm not so sure. While it's ok for most people, it's not as safe or benign as some people would like to believe.
I think decriminalisation is a perhaps a better solution.
Alcohol may be worse but is that really good selling point for dope?
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Maybe people wouldn't get paranoid if it was legal.
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Why do we keep comparing it to alcohol and saying that drinking gives you liver damage and makes people violent? Of course it does if you drink too much.
In fact logic should tell you if you overdo anything there can be consequences. You can keep your hands in clean room temperature water too long and it cause you skin problems.
So lets look at it intelligently. Why take cannabis? Well its for the effect, not the taste, one reason. Why take alcohol? For its taste and/or its effect, two reasons? So if you are saying that alcohol and cannabis are basically the same thing, they are not.
Of course some idiot can smoke a spliff or drink 6 pints and get in a car and kill people. So in the end all we are talking about is people and their behaviour. But unless I'm corrected, the only reason we use spliffs is to get high, you cannot say that about alcohol. I, incidentally, would say the same about the person who only drinks to get drunk, which sadly is quite a lot of us.
IMO if we are going to ban anything it should be smoking!
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Another benefit to decriminalization is that it might stop, or at least vastly reduce, the horrific slaughter taking place in Mexico and throughout Central America. The roots of that violence would seem to be the feeding of America's gargantuan drug habit. However, as the state trooper who was arresting me just the other day (once we'd both determined we were both actual human beings) said, he had previously worked in narcotics and saw many efforts at decriminalization and none had worked. He also really dug Breaking Bad so we spent the rest of the ride to jail talking about that.
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I think it is an intelligent statement. Alcohol is also destructive. Weed just makes you eat, forgetful and a bit paranoid at worse.
Most alcohol does not taste so good. certain types do. An occasionally stoning session does not hurt. Drinking everyday does.
The point is it's all self destructive. Weed is at least natural. Prisons are over crowded with people who smoke weed. It's not a criminal offense. Luckily some US states are moving in a progressive direction. Strangely before the UK which is a more liberal country.
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Of course people smoke spliffs to get high , that doesn't mean you need to get wasted exactly the same as having a beer or having 10 vodkas or whatever. Does alcohol really taste that great imo no far from it , hey I like the odd pint but your wines and spirits come on they aren't exactly refreshing.
I don't think anyone is saying cannabis and alcohol are the same, everyone is saying though surely cannabis is no worse than alcohol and the reason one is banned and the other isn't is all about profits and tax revenue for big companies and governments.
As a ex smoker I'm probably not best placed to comment, but of course if someone tried to bring tobacco today it would never be allowed. Its a nasty highly addictive drug with fatal side affects n not only for the user but those around them. Again controlled by powerful rich companies and tax hungry governments.
Again I would like to add that I don't smoke cannabis and rarely drink so I like to think that my opinion is unbiased, disagree if you want
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...just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean to say they are not going to get you...
i like that one;-)
Maybe people wouldn't get paranoid if it was legal.
good point. i think this is a big part of it. i mean, i felt it. i started using the illegal drug, when our teachers in class were telling us, we would get insane by it, start taking heroin, becoming an addicted criminal and when you would have been caught, you just would've been in hell. so we did it very secretly (well, we thought so;-) and i always was a bit afraid to get caught.
but i also think, this effect of weed ist to strengthen whats already in yourself. in yout unconsciousness.
i think livin in this society has us all made a bit having a split personality. and i think there are lots of people out there who have sreious issues carrying with them, fears, thoughts of a micplaced personality etc..
our society evokes that.
ang if you take some weed, it can show you things you don't want to see.
but this conversation is much about addiction. the body effects of weed are not as such as an alcohol addiction. you can quit more easily. but all this behaviour is of course individual. so some people won't stop using it, even if they feel its not working for them. we know that.
the most addictive thing i ever encountered was tobacco. still struggling.
there's a big difference if you smoke weed with or without tobacco. to me its clear that most addictivness is by the tobacco. its a different hight when using it without tobacco.
you can use a inhalator. there's no burning and so no bad side products you inhale. i would even say, this is healthy.
then you can cook with it. you can digest it and it gets you high even more differently. this is also so tasty and a big pleasure.
you can also use several parts of the plant which don't contain thc and use them for cooking.
the plant has so much use to it, its almost impossible to describe it, you wouldn't believe it.
its not only about getting high. its about pleasure, taste, culture, spirit, mind exploration and freedom...
it has to be legalized.
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Another benefit to decriminalization is that it might stop, or at least vastly reduce, the horrific slaughter taking place in Mexico and throughout Central America. The roots of that violence would seem to be the feeding of America's gargantuan drug habit. However, as the state trooper who was arresting me just the other day (once we'd both determined we were both actual human beings) said, he had previously worked in narcotics and saw many efforts at decriminalization and none had worked. He also really dug Breaking Bad so we spent the rest of the ride to jail talking about that.
wouldn't stop it and that is indeed the worst thing about the stuff, if they legalise it then there will be legal outlets for it and like alcohol and tobacco it will be heavily taxed, presumably to pay for the resources it would require, but regardless of tax, the criminal fraternity will always sell it cheaper..i agree that you shouldn't criminalise the user so i suppose i'll go with Dodgy..'homegrown is the way that it should be'
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Well, if they use the tax for schools, hospitals, roads and other things it's fine.
Isn't that how EU works and has such great benefits? taxing.
That's why country like Germany and Norway work.