Are Vengeance and The independent story not the same album?

[Amandistan]

So my copy of Veangene on CD is entitles "Vengeance: The Independent story". I have the remastered one and an older copy, both are titled the same.   

However,I have heard people speak of each like the are two separate albums. I was told the "The Price" was on the Independent story not Vengeance.

Is it them same album or two separate albums?

[Bill B]

Vengeance was released in 1984 as an eight track album -

Christian Militia
Notice Me
Smalltown England
A Liberal Education
Vengeance
Sex (The Black Angel)
Running in the Rain
Spirit of the Falklands

Various singles and remixes were added to the album when it was re-released a few years later and re-badged as Vengeance: The Independent Story, but the original Vengeance was just the eight tracks

[Space]

If I recall correctly, "Vengeance" proper wasn't even released here in America. For New Model Army, like The Clash, here in America the second album was the first. When we did get The Clash's first album it was a gobbly mess of various songs, not the original set of songs. Just like "Vengeance."

[Master Ray]

Has any album in history ever been more expanded than Vengeance?

Vengeance, original version, which I have on vinyl... 8 tracks.

Vengeance (The Whole Story)... 37 tracks...

 

[Red]

If I recall correctly, "Vengeance" proper wasn't even released here in America. For New Model Army, like The Clash, here in America the second album was the first. When we did get The Clash's first album it was a gobbly mess of various songs, not the original set of songs. Just like "Vengeance."

Vengeance was released in America

It was titled Vengeance:The Independent Story but only had the 8 tracks from Vengeance on it not the extras like on other releases

[Pazza]

Confusing or what, why not just call iit Vengeance

[Dominic]

just to confuse matters further...

I had the cassette version (before the CD) which consisted of the original Vengeance album on the A-side, and on the B-side (well, half of it) the Great Expectation & The Price singles.

Notable about this was a slightly different version of No Man's Land to the one on the CD (and subsequent CD reissues).

The main differences being it starts with the choral echo at the beginning and the line "Never know passion, never know fire" is the other way round "Never know fire, never know passion".  Always preferred this version, I like how JS delivers the line and emphasises "passion", er, passionately!

[Patrice]

just to confuse matters further...

I had the cassette version (before the CD) which consisted of the original Vengeance album on the A-side, and on the B-side (well, half of it) the Great Expectation & The Price singles.

Notable about this was a slightly different version of No Man's Land to the one on the CD (and subsequent CD reissues).

The main differences being it starts with the choral echo at the beginning and the line "Never know passion, never know fire" is the other way round "Never know fire, never know passion".  Always preferred this version, I like how JS delivers the line and emphasises "passion", er, passionately!

interesting !! I think I've heard this version , this choral echo at the beginning reminds me something, but I have listened to my 9 different editions of Vengeance on CD with no luck ,also Smalltown England CD 

if someone has a digital version of this version, I would like to hear it again !!

and on vinyl, is there a pressing with this version ?

[Patrice]

just found a version with the lyrics inverted as you stated, on Once Were Warriors bootleg demos CD
(no choral echo at beginning but some drums)

[Dominic]

just found a version with the lyrics inverted as you stated, on Once Were Warriors bootleg demos CD
(no choral echo at beginning but some drums)

Actually you are right, my memory must be fading!

dug out that demo bootleg and now I remember the differences. The echo is at the end of the song!

I do prefer this version actually. The vocals are more direct (possibly double-tracked) and it is a little trimmer.

the demo does start with the drum roll, and it is shorter. though both versions are similar length - 3:35 (demo) and 3:32 (remastered/rerecorded version).

this is because the little guitar solo comes straight in after each chorus on the demo but on the other there is a break.

Note the drums on the demo end on 2:58 but then there is 35 secs of echo fade out.  The drums on the re-recorded version finish about 3:24 and then it just ends with the stereo-bass ending.

okay, the production on the re-recorded version does sound slicker, and "pathetic little words, half hearted kisses" are muddled up a bit on the demo, but I do prefer the demo version.