We're only made of water, frequencies get us high...

[Master Ray]

Two things.  1 - this is a really interesting discussion (and sorry for bringing up the whole 'poop' thing).  2 - I think I might know where my idea came from... writer William S Burroughs did come up with the concept as 'black noise' or a 'black noise bomb', it something that could destroy certain substances by sound alone and may even have patented the idea, that's uncertain.  David Bowie then talked about in an interview in the 70's.  During the 90's (when those two fine gentlemen were back in fashion) I suppose some band or other might have appropriated the concept in an attempt to be controversial (hey, this was a decade when people would pay to see The Jim Rose Circus Sideshow!) and all that stuff got mixed up in my memories... but I'm still sure I remember a band saying they were experimenting with it!  Cannibal Corpse perhaps?

Anyway, loving this thread (even though I perhaps understand little of it!), please continue and elaborate!

[cthulhu]

You don't have to excuse yourself master ray, i was just kidding, maybe i feared i bit that the discussion would turn into one from another planet like from uranus( muahahaha ) but the poo-topic is also an interesting one, thank you for the explanations.

 No two human beings are identical so why should any sensory input have a standard impact on us, Visual art doesn't so why would sound.

i don't think thats quite true, at least how i understand what i think you mean. for example: the taste of bitter should be the same by everybody, or the taste of very hot food. you body sensors will recognize immediately what its about, but everybody deals with it individually. i do think that there are some universal rules out there and i do think that like "the golden ratio" in visual arts is something universal when watching a picture.

The golden ratio is also called the golden mean or golden section (Latin: sectio aurea).[3][4][5] Other names include extreme and mean ratio,[6] medial section, divine proportion, divine section (Latin: sectio divina), golden proportion, golden cut,[7] and golden number.[8][9][10]

Mathematicians since Euclid have studied the properties of the golden ratio, including its appearance in the dimensions of a regular pentagon and in a golden rectangle, which may be cut into a square and a smaller rectangle with the same aspect ratio. The golden ratio has also been used to analyze the proportions of natural objects as well as man-made systems such as financial markets, in some cases based on dubious fits to data.[11] The golden ratio appears in some patterns in nature, including the spiral arrangement of leaves and other plant parts.

Some twentieth-century artists and architects, including Le Corbusier and Dalí, have proportioned their works to approximate the golden ratio—especially in the form of the golden rectangle, in which the ratio of the longer side to the shorter is the golden ratio—believing this proportion to be aesthetically pleasing.

so this is also only a belief, but it is out there.

the thing with the tuning, like the "A" which then is expressed in numbers showing the frequency of it, like 440 or 432 in vibrations per second(which is a 60th of a minute and so on..) is that the artist were always trying to find out how nature works and they discovered some things which seem to be rules and they put it in numbers, or correlations etc..

there is always some kind of math behind it and that subject i find fascinating. like old architecture tried to use that numbers in the way a building was planned.

but back to topic, the tuning. anna you mentioned brave new world 2, which was a good proposal but then i thought about caslen. i converted it and if someone is interested in the conversion you could pm me with your email and i could send you a dropbox file of it.

[Anna Woman von NRW]

Enjoying this thread. Not very knowledgeable about any of it but I do like questions that make me think 

Ok I take your points re: the golden ratio and mathematical basis for things but if that is all that's involved how can 2 people have very different responses to the same picture? If it's just math then that negates any form of self determination doesn't it    Now I think this strays into philosophical territory but how do we know that what I see as blue is the same as what you see as blue, that what I taste as chili is what you taste?

Back to the sound question ..... will drop you a PM 

[cthulhu]

I found something that fits the best in this thread.
It's a good explanation about the differences of analog vs. vinyl technology. Sadly its in this youtube style, where people really try to speak as fast as they can and this gets on my nerves.

And when i think about it seems to me that this is part of the effects of that digital technology, to compress everything and make everything faster. it has to be fast to get close to analog. but here i'm just philosophing...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzRvSWPZQYk

[8]

Kudos!  Seriously dope as in HEAVY topic, this thread.  Am compelled to ask, though, Cthulhu, you strike me as someone who is musically inclined.  Do you play an instrument(s) and if so, which do you play?  Are you formally trained or self-taught?

For me, I am addicted to sound in general... not just music, per se... if that makes any kind of sense to anyone else floating here.  I not only want it, but I crave it, need it, feed off it, thrive and die in the same go sometimes, too.  It consumes my every waking moment, sound... moreso than anything visual, or written for sure.  All sound is MUSIC to me.  All of it.  There's no line in between.  One blurs right into the next, and so forth.  From everyday mundane background noises, to people speaking in different tongues, even accents, and speech impediments are equally just as thrilling, vibrant, illuminating, to me -  through to and including what is more commonly referred to as music... I soak and savour ALL of it.

There is a very big difference between analog versus digital, but I'm split down the middle.  I love both for very different reasons.  I think it all depends on what you want to accomplish, achieve, are in the mood for at that given moment.  What I want to know is why the fcuk am I moreso drawn to minor keys, chords, and dissonance... generaly speaking.  Never had that explained to me before.  Why do certain notes resonate better in me, with me, through me... than others, I often wonder.

Hmmm, deep thoughts, weightful questions.  Man, I ask way too many questions... sorry.   

[cthulhu]

Deep thoughts are welcome! I find this topic is connected to everything, so let your thoughts fly.

To answer your question: many years ago i had a band and we improvised all the time. we were 6, most of them real musicians, i started as a singer but then bought a bass and just played with it. so i guess i'm a self-taught bass player. it kind of started even more early, when we sat around in our living rooms and began to record music, improvised on instruments or anything else that made a sound. this somehow became a real band with amps in a room and very loud!!

in my opening post i mentioned: "nada brahma - the world IS sound" by joachim ernst-berendt, an old german radio feature, which i would recommend for you.

i think it adresses everything you asked and mentioned and is a mind-blowing, marvellous feature with so much information that will take your thoughts to a new level.

sadly i couldn't find an english version, but maybe you can find something similar to it?

for the german speakers i finally found this:
Nada Brahma - Die Welt ist Klang 1/4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpjpvjLRd0E&t=1955s

So just an example out of it:
at around minute 17 he explains that when singing "ohm" the whole body resonates and shakes and that from this "ohm" out of tibet, the christian "amen" as just a stronger vocalized version of "ohm" became..
and he the then he fades tibetanians monks chanting "ohm" into a christian choir singing "amen"...wow!

So the feature is about sound as the essence of life.

in the feature you will hear about language, musik, harmonys and the connection to the mathematics of harmony and the planets, mantras and so much more, and with so many musik and sound examples.

in this, the first part, is musik by:

ali akbarkan, a choir tibetaninan monks, hendel, johann sebastian bach, peter michael hamel, pink floyd, a balenesian gammelan orchestra, ben webster, john coltrane, santana, don charie, a brasilian makumba ritual, duke ellington
and this is only the first part.

at around minute 47 you can hear pulsars, the rhythm in the universe...

[8]

Deep thoughts are welcome! I find this topic is connected to everything, so let your thoughts fly.

To answer your question: many years ago i had a band and we improvised all the time. we were 6, most of them real musicians, i started as a singer but then bought a bass and just played with it. so i guess i'm a self-taught bass player. it kind of started even more early, when we sat around in our living rooms and began to record music, improvised on instruments or anything else that made a sound. this somehow became a real band with amps in a room and very loud!!

Thanks for sharing that, answering my question(s), Cthulhu.   

in my opening post i mentioned: "nada brahma - the world IS sound" by joachim ernst-berendt, an old german radio feature, which i would recommend for you.   i think it adresses everything you asked and mentioned and is a mind-blowing, marvellous feature with so much information that will take your thoughts to a new level. sadly i couldn't find an english version, but maybe you can find something similar to it?

Always wanted to learn German, well, as many languages as I could handle, actually.  But when one can't apply what they've learnt, as in put it into everyday practice, use, it ends up getting lost.    Lost most of the French I studied in school, because, it's just too difficult to retain, when it's not being put to use on a more regular basis.

for the german speakers i finally found this:  Nada Brahma - Die Welt ist Klang 1/4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpjpvjLRd0E&t=1955s

Still going to view it, lol even though I won't really know what's being related.

So just an example out of it:
at around minute 17 he explains that when singing "ohm" the whole body resonates and shakes and that from this "ohm" out of tibet, the christian "amen" as just a stronger vocalized version of "ohm" became..
and he the then he fades tibetanians monks chanting "ohm" into a christian choir singing "amen"...wow!

So the feature is about sound as the essence of life.

in the feature you will hear about language, musik, harmonys and the connection to the mathematics of harmony and the planets, mantras and so much more, and with so many musik and sound examples.

in this, the first part, is musik by:

ali akbarkan, a choir tibetaninan monks, hendel, johann sebastian bach, peter michael hamel, pink floyd, a balenesian gammelan orchestra, ben webster, john coltrane, santana, don charie, a brasilian makumba ritual, duke ellington

at around minute 47 you can hear pulsars, the rhythm in the universe.

I'll have to check that out, thanks again Cthulhu.