Do you think banning a Hijab/ Burqa is considered discrimination?

[Amandistan]

When researching Arab countries out of interest, I have come across an article of how traditional Islam attire is being banned by certain countries.

I read that in public places (such as schools) in France, Holland and Turkey it is banned. In Italy a woman got a 500 euro fine. I get the secular nation thing and agree with it. I am also secular myself  but I can sympathize with the isolation that some muslims must feel.  That's a bit like banning  "Star of David" pendents or "Crosses"

 I agree that the whole idea of having a woman cover up is as misogynistic as hell and women should never be forced or feel the obligation to wear this. 
However what about those who choose to wear it due to symbolism or loyalty? or really believe that they are pleasing their god.
 
Should people  not be allowed to practice religion?  And why do people even care that these people have different beliefs? I am agnostic/ border-line atheist but i think everyone should be aloud to practice whatever religion that they choose. As long as they are not forcing Islam on everyone...
Then how is wearing a hijab or Burqa hurting? 

It sort of sounds like they are anti-islamic or painting all Muslims with the "Extremist" brush.

This would actually not fly in the U.S.  due to protection of the first amendment. It's freedom of speech and religion and I don't understand how any civilized country can do this without question.   
Pushing secularism on people of faith is not only cruel but the same principal as pushing religion on others.
It may be done with lawyers and court-rooms as opposed to bombs and torture. but it's still forcing others to give up their beliefs for another.

This disgusts me that governments can violate human rights like this. does nobody in France, turkey etc. object to this? Isn't a protest of non-muslims wearing head-scarves due?


On a personal note , my family was by-the-book strict catholic (I am not) growing up. And if they were told to never wear their crucifix or saint medals, they would be broken. As the jews were in Germany when their traditions were  no longer welcome.

 

[Bunny]

I dont think the clothing is religious, more cultural. Personally speaking Im against anything that can be used to hide or disguise anyone, solely on the basis of any criminal investigations. In the UK many places insist that motorbike helmets are removed and headwear. Same thing.

[Pol]

In a word yes
But me or you couldn't walk about in a balaclava and combats either

[Bunny]

Similarily I was asked to remove my rubber gimp mask with the zip up mouth. I was outraged til they pointed out it wasnt suitable attire for a public swimming pool without trunks.

[Amandistan]

Yes but even if it's cultural. It is till forcing someone to adapt to a culture. It could also be comforting to them.

It just seems to be against freedom of speech and expression.
Valid Question: Does Europe also have laws against interfering with freedom of speech, expression and religion?

I know in the U.S. that this is illegal.
What about just a head scarf where you can see the face? Why on earth should that be banned. I also don't get how it works in Turkey with the majority being muslims.

[Master Ray]

IMO, if you are staying in someone's home, you should abide by their rules...

... likewise, if you are staying in someone's country, you should also abide by those rules...

 

[Pol]

Interesting point ray, very true when we go abroad were all expected to live by the rules

[Viv Savage]

As far as I know it works in the way of the seperation of church and state. In Turkey this was deliberately done in the early 1900's to stop religion becoming involved with the running of the country - Atatürk essentially saw the mingling of religion and state as a fundamental problem and made laws against it (though it would seem that the current President Erdoğan has been steadily striping these laws away over the last decade or so...). Similarly in France I believe it is illegal, for instance, to wear a cross around your neck or a Burka in a school as it is deemed to be religious and not secular, therefore it has no place in public life/work (schools, hospitals or government) and this goes for ALL religions. It is again designed to seperate state and religion. Interestingly America has essentially the same laws except they seem to be ignored particularly by anyone seeking office!

[Bunny]

I dont honestly beleive there is such a thing as freedom of speech and never had been. You can express opinions and beleifs. However if these are upsetting or against the general sense of opinion or are offensive then it becomes criminal or morally wrong, despite how deeply felt it may be. Ultimately a state makes rules for the benefit of all its citizens. If they decide against something then it has to be accepted. In any country across the world.

Just my observations.

[Amandistan]

It did more research and found in France it was anything that covered the head/face basically. That's not to beneficial on those cold mornings or if you are very shy and wish to hide and avoid eye contact.

I know in America, it's illegal to bring anything religious into a court room. Also the schools are beginning to ban celebration of Christmas. However there has been so much hatred aimed toward muslims in the past that banning anything to due with islam is politically incorrect. Or will be called out and brought to attention.

Before I posted this I had not realized that this meant all clothing that covers the face. I read this on a "Human Rights Watch" page and it only told me half of the information. Then i got passionate and angry from only knowing half of the facts.

[Bunny]

Its good that you get passionate about things Amandistan. We all do.
Sometimes though you need to read both sides of a story to find your middle ground. Human rights watch and human rights in general is an important piece of legislation to stop nation states abusing power.

However in the UK its open to misuse by greedy lawyers. I dont beleive the legislation was created originally so that people who commit crimes and are imprisoned after breaking a law (outside the moral code), should then influence the outcome of a country's government for example. Similarily, terrorist suspects cannot be deported because of human rights. Well, I have a right not to live in fear of a terrorist suspect threatening my country's stability. Its lost on me completely tbh.

[Heno]

the requirements of the secular state must come first

if it can accommodate the needs of cults then cool

if it can't then they must accept that

thats the way the dictators have it, and that is the way it will remain