The official NMA board
General Category => New Model Army => Topic started by: MerseyExile on October 03, 2013, 04:15:27 PM
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Sorry. Really sorry. I guess I’m the only one who doesn’t think BDAW is brilliant. Yes It’s good BUT it is not a NMA classic and not nearly as good as some of their old and recent stuff.
Obviously this is just my opinion so let me please explain before getting criticised. I eagerly sought out and bought the early singles before Vengeance was released. I think I have everything NMA have ever recorded since. I don’t go in for pink vinyl and Hungarian imports etc. If I’ve already got it then good – but I double and triple up on LPs, CDs and cassettes. So I’m an oldie at 57.
I have listened to BDAW 3 times so far….
1st time with eager anticipation from the reviews.
2nd time with a bottle of red of red wine to celebrate my birthday (getting a new NMA LP a day before your birthday !) and being convinced I must have been wrong yesterday.
3rd time this morning.
I know this is not going to gain me any friends. Yes BDAW is good but sorry it’s not that good.
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personally I disagree, but I'm sure there'll be a few who agree with you. Though this will happen with every album (TIAGD or Eight aren't favourites of mine either).
But it's worth remembering many NMA fans are quite a dedicated and devotional bunch of music followers - so devotional in fact that if it was an organised religion there'd be a few songs about it! (with One of the Chosen I couldn't decide if that was about religion or music fans until the closing lines).
But in rock and roll terms devotion is a positive and so it is fairer to say NMA have a higher percentage of fans follow their music religiously than say the Foo Fighters. Such fans will be always be more open to whatever musical avenue the band choose to explore than others only interested in a particular sound or period.
BDAW isn't a rock album so it is hard to compare against one, and even harder to compare against their other albums. How to compare with TIAGD with Eight?
I'd recommend a fourth listen - forget to expect 'NMA' and forget to expect 'rock', just absorb it on its own terms. It may not contain that next NMA anthem-hymn for everybody - but it's a fine album and I agree with the consensus of it being one of their best constructed records in years.
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I'm not convinced by it either. Of course I reserve the right to change my mind in time, but as it stands, no. Still better than most albums by most other bands, mind, but as far NMA goes, there's much better IMO
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When you have serious bands that have stood the test of time and have evolved over years and decades then there are bound to be some songs/ albums that some fans take to but also some that fans don't take to. I love the album but I know that there will be many genuine fans out there that don't like it.
It's just the way it goes.
Mersey Exile - I hope the album grows on you ;)
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I'm struggling as well. :o
To me it's "the Emperor's New Clothes", everyone one is raving, but I just can't see it. ???
I think it must be my age... ;) :-[
It'll probably grow on me in time - Strange Brotherhood did. :-\
Nice to see the boys back in the charts. I've loved them since I first heard them and I always will. :-*
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it took me a while and a good few listens to get, however i will say that the song "i need more time" doesn't do it for me, yet this seems a big favourite.
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No apologies necessary.
As I said before on a previous post, this is a band who constantly evolves. Sometimes they will veer off in a direction that not everybody will follow them onto. No problem... I hope you lot who aren't keen on BDAW will still come to the gigs. And maybe the next NMA album will tickle your fancy a bit more...
My own unpopular opinion? I've never been that keen on 'The Love Of Hopeless Causes'... I like 'Strange Brotherhood' much better... and SB is an album that Justin doesn't seem that keen on!
In fact, 'your unpopular NMA opinion' might just be an interesting new thread...
;)
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3 plays isnt nearly enough for this one IMO.
I have had it on repeat in the car since release day, so with my commute, I have heard it around 30 times now.
It only started to make sense around play 25, an its like listening to a different album.
The mainstream media validation, to me, feels a little like its 'their time' for a little praise, rather than the musicianship and songwriting on display - because there is nothing 'better' artistically about BDAW than Carnival, High, or TIAGD, and with it being a much less immediate sound, I cant see how a renta-mouth in the mojo office could suck the marrow out of its finer points by deadline.
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Completely agree. Impruri-D
After listening to it umpteen times, I have changed my mind about which is my favourite track several times. Its not a simple album, there is lots to take in each time you listen.
Before this one falls into place, you need lots of listens, and tell yourself before you make your mind up about it -- I need more time --
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It definitely needs quite a few listens. Three times is nowhere near enough.
I do think the rave reviews are genuine because in many ways this album is more accessible to non-hardcore NMA fans. Most of my friends who aren't crazy about NMA instantly liked a lot of the songs. So in some ways I think, rather than being a bad album it just isn't the album that some of us wanted it to be.
Personally, I think it's brilliant. Give it time. I only really started to like SB recently and am now wondering what I ever disliked about it.
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I agree that 3 listenings are not enough. However, 30 listenings in a week (3 times a day) is at the other end of the spectrum. I am a fan not an obsessive fanatic.
Respect to the "emperors new clothes” quote.
My 4th and 5th listening have not yet changed my opinion. Some so-so tracks and one or two very weak "fillers". I am not trying to be contentious but I don't get the euphoria about this. So, I will listen at least once every day for the next 5 days before making another comment. Hopefully it'll grow.
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i'm having a rough go of it as well. while it has a few tracks that i like, it doesn't have the raw, angry edge that i'm accustomed to. more like a 'world beat' kinda affair. and some of the vocals have really thrown me as well. not justin's, his are always spot on, but the more 'melodic' background vocals.
don't get me wrong, i'm very happy that this album is doing as well as it is critically. it's just not doing it for me. at least not yet. but i'm not quite ready to throw in the towel yet.
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There's nothing contentious about not liking an album. I struggle with some other bands' supposed master pieces. All points raised here are by people respectfully stating their opinion and I think that's a good thing. It is a discussion forum after all.
To be honest, as much as I love the new album, I am surprised that there aren't more people that can't warm to it. I suspect that quite a few are still waiting for it to finally click and are waiting on the live dates before they dismiss it. While I agree that the album may be about 2 songs too long, I'm sure you won't find two people who will agree on what those two songs are ;D!
But do try to persevere with it a bit more and play it loud and/or on headphones.
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You're not alone.
Time prevents me from a more erudite reply, but I have to say that with the exception of possibly the title track, I can find nothing I really like here. Out of all the NMA albums I have, this has been the most disappointing for me. God knows I've tried to like it.. headphones, glasses of scotch, loudness, etc, and it just leaves me cold. Its not music that I would have chosen to listen to had it not been NMA.
I have a genuine sense of loss after this one. Sure, I've not liked some albums as much as others, and there are always tracks I prefer over others, but thats only to be expected with such a wide range of time and material. BDAW, however, is just like a mental car-crash for me, and however hard I try, I cannot "get" it. Since every other album has had immediate highlights and often a "Oh YES! God I love this band!" moment on it for me, the contrast is very striking indeed.
Ah well. Maybe the next one will bring it back for me :)
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When LOHC came out, we somehow got hold of a promo version of it. After the 2 previous albums I was so looking fotward to it. It left me cold. For years, I would only play it intermittently. Over the last 6 or 7 years, I finally warmed to it and now play it regularly. BDAW has been on constantly since it turned up. I played it twice last night. It is atmospheric and widescreen. I think it's the finest thing they've done in nearly 25 years.
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This is one of the reasons I LOVE this forum. Plenty of interesting discussion on both sides.
I *LOVE* BDAW, but I'm always curious to hear opposing ideas, and there is some interesting stuff coming out here.
I think what it comes down to is the fact that we all look for different things in music, consciously or not, and a hugely diverse band like NMA is going to cater to a whole range of musical tastes. By the same token, because they've never made two albums alike, they're going to alienate some fans whichever direction they go in.
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On the day I got the album, I played it through twice in succession with headphones on. My initial reaction was one of intrigue, a little bit of worry, and some encouragement to myself that although it didn't have songs that hid me hard immediately like some on previous albums, that it might take some time, but it would be a slow burning grower. I was slightly concerned that maybe the heavily layered drums were somewhat overpowering a few of the actual songs, and this bothered me because I didn't want there to be any tracks on it that I positively disliked. Several people in this thread have said that 3 listens is not enough. However.....
...I then stuck it in my car cd player. I think ottodeth mentioned in another thread that his car speakers couldn't handle the bass, and mine can't either. Fair bit of distortion. But allowing for that, I was quite surprised and overjoyed to find that on the third listen, and especially the 4th, I suddenly got it (whatever that means). Maybe it was just some of the vocal lines and the music becoming more familiar, but it just all made much more sense, and even the tracks where I was worried about the drums being overpowering began to infiltrate the old brain cells in a very enjoyable way ! I'm now enjoying it greatly with each listen. I like the fact that it sounds quite different to other NMA albums, but none of them have ever sounded exactly like another anyway. It still sounds to me like New Model Army, just a new and interesting version. :)
Can't wait now for my next opportunity to take it back out of the car, and have another listen with headphones and no background noise !
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Going to break my posting duck on this one (hello all!) as I've been through the ringer with this album. At first I thought it was some weird prog-rock tangent into self-indulgence, and to say I was disappointed was an understatement. However after similar underwhelming experiences with TIAGD, High and Carnival, I decided to stick with it. The solution was relatively easy, crank up the volume, listen to it with decent headphones or good system, and put on repeat. It has so much atmosphere and subtlety that you're just not going to get it unless you allow it to soak itself into your brain. Sounds a bit pretentious but it worked for me. I actually think now that it's easily the best thing they've done since T+C, but like someone said previously, it's taken about 20-30 listens. In fact the more I hear it now the more I want to keep listening to it. It's getting quite addictive to the point that I'm listening to it about 2-3 times a day :-)
And Northern Moors... Quite possibly the most beautiful thing I've heard since G&G.
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for me it's a good record to listen, but not for playing it live
(it's not very rock'n'roll for most of the album )
I wonder how this will be in the mosh pit ?!
not their best in my opinion, the last 2 albums were excellent, but a good one with great songs
it took me more than 3 times to really appreciate most of the songs.
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You're not alone.
Time prevents me from a more erudite reply, but I have to say that with the exception of possibly the title track, I can find nothing I really like here. Out of all the NMA albums I have, this has been the most disappointing for me. God knows I've tried to like it.. headphones, glasses of scotch, loudness, etc, and it just leaves me cold. Its not music that I would have chosen to listen to had it not been NMA.
I have a genuine sense of loss after this one. Sure, I've not liked some albums as much as others, and there are always tracks I prefer over others, but thats only to be expected with such a wide range of time and material. BDAW, however, is just like a mental car-crash for me, and however hard I try, I cannot "get" it. Since every other album has had immediate highlights and often a "Oh YES! God I love this band!" moment on it for me, the contrast is very striking indeed.
Ah well. Maybe the next one will bring it back for me :)
That's exactly how I feel about the album. I've gone into more detail on the other thread, but suffice to say that I haven't yet found a hook, or a song that speaks to me, or a riff or drum pattern that I love. I feel very (selfishly) disappointed by this album - I'd been hoping for some masterful songwriting, but that seems to have come a distant second to mood, which wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't the same mood and the same sound the whole way through the album.
I've tried it on headphones, in the van, through studio monitors etc etc and still can't stomach it.
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I think everyone's take is great and this thread is awesome, this is not meant as an argument, imagine us in a park having a discussion and im smiling trying to give you a different perspective with random points :D ;)
as a musician maybe my tastes are more varied, i look for more honest exploration in the groups i support and try to be open to change, not always as much as i think lol, i still like their DNA to be present and i'm into a very wide variety of sounds so this lp was very nice to hear. in all honestly over the past 10 years NMA is one of the few bands who have a singer that i will still give the time of day to ... blaghblaghblagh .. like Joe Strummer said some time back "well it's all been done already" or close to that when asked why he doesnt write love songs ... i digress :P
This album has one main thing that is similar to all other NMA lps, NMA wrote and played it so to me it sounds like them as every album they have done does. they're one of those bands, not only thanx to Justins distinctive voice but the music does have their "trade mark" sound (DNA), sure Stuarts not playing melodic bass lines, that era passed in 1985 (ok Moose carried it on sorta) but one cant argue that you never know if its NMA you're listening to or not. from Vengeance to Between Dog and Wolf there is no mistaking its the same group if you have even a minor education on their back catalogue.
The 2nd track, March In September could be a companion piece to I Wish which takes us back to what 1984? 8)
I said it in a different thread , to me this lp is if the Price ep, the Acoustic EP and the Ballads ep all combined their audible DNA into one piece it would have grown up to be Between Dog and Wolf. :)
The 1st track "Horsemen" how can a tribal support system like NMA has, who incorporate this whole Pagan/tribal aspect into our whole lives not thrive on the 1st track alone?!?! :o :o :o
And the lyrics, esp at most of our ages, Justin is a few years older then me i but we're all in the sunset time of our lives and at time the lyrics on this lp can almost be too haunting, amazing stuff. at least for how my brain has interpreted them thus far. ;D
After hearing this lp the first time my greatest concern was the mastering of the drums in comparison to the rest of the instruments, NOT AND BY NO MEANS did i think the obvious tribal element of the lp would be an issue for anyone and i figured this would be considered by the support base as the best NMA lp ever due to its tribal elements that are basically the main course of the song writing. ;) :-*
I do not think there is one great best NMA lp not even 2 for me each one is the best is a succession of brilliance of sound and words.
I'm not too sure why the songs wont work live, the tribal aspect of the lp plays well to human movement. 8)
again not trying to be a DB here at all, would love to be hanging with all of you passing a fattie and talking about this lp in person no matter what the thoughts coz it obvious we all love it on some level and are all here talking and communing, all the best to all of you always.
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Its not just you, as soon as i read the lines "sacrificing none of the passion or songwriting skills" i knew this was gonna be an awkward album as they have done exactly that, except for the frankly amazing "lean back and fall" there is little melody or catchy tunes, the production is sublime as is the drumming, but it is all a bit world music for me and almost a "carnival" mark 2 (my other least favourite album). Its great that they are still evolving and it is still my favourite album of the year so far but i expect the next album to be 10 3 minute alternative rock songs with angry lyrics and pure pop choruses please to make up for it! x
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I love the new album.Those of you who have not clicked with the new album, you have my sympathies. It is a different album, and "different" will always have its detractors. You can,t like everything, from a run of 12 studio albums, we are all going to have a least favourite.
Console yourselves with this. At least now you are familiar with the songs on the album for when you hear them live.
to quote arnearne from earlier on today, after having seen NMA last night,
"anyone who thinks BDAW is NOT a rock album should go see the tour - the live versions of the new songs are absolutly amazing, head pounding and heavy as hell..."
Have to admit, I cannot imagine Marshall and Ceri holding back much on an energetic set :)
There is talk of a live album from this tour, maybe you will prefer the sound of the songs live. Personally, I prefer the live version of Modern Times on Big Guitars in Little Europe to the recorded version for example.
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Its not just you, as soon as i read the lines "sacrificing none of the passion or songwriting skills" i knew this was gonna be an awkward album as they have done exactly that, except for the frankly amazing "lean back and fall" there is little melody or catchy tunes, the production is sublime as is the drumming, but it is all a bit world music for me and almost a "carnival" mark 2 (my other least favourite album). Its great that they are still evolving and it is still my favourite album of the year so far but i expect the next album to be 10 3 minute alternative rock songs with angry lyrics and pure pop choruses please to make up for it! x
1 - alternative rock sux as a format, the term alone springs up images of wankers and hipsters ;) and what exactly is it an "alternative too" esp since its one of the top "pop" music categories over the last 2+ decades! seriously people ...
2 - what band and or artist feels compelled to meet "expectations" none that are worth merit, if they did we'd be on an Aerosmith forum right now asking for our daily serving of brain washing, not for me thank you.
3 - 10 3 minute angry songs album (can you say redundant?!?), i hope not, thats what i buy Ceremony records for, and hey even they've made changes (for the better their new lp kicks ass too) and before that the Effigies and Anti Pasti blaghblaghblagh , think thats been covered (like Joe said ;) )
4 - i was honestly hoping with the talent in the band we'd have gotten some atmospheric instrumentals on this lp ...there is always next time ... the keys that have been ever present in NMAs lps seems like around 85/86 and esp with T&C lp onwards has always just made me fall in love with them more and more,,,, but then one of the highlights for me as a young lad was when Simple Minds put out a new lp and it had one or 2 instrumentals on there, i swear when IDM and Post-Rock (another shit term like post punk and alternative rock) ie atmospheric instrumental vibes i was in friggin heaven. Happy i lived to see those two genres flourish, well within the underground/side street media
5- pure pop choruses? dont think ive ever heard NMA do a "pop" anything and i'd debate for some time that they never have or at least not intentionally unless Justin corrected me himself on that. He'd be the guy that would know. ;)
But then, the Falls last lp was a supposed "classic" and i think its a bit of crap, but then with time i may come back to it and fall in love, that did happen with Wires Red Bark Tree for me but with Object and the R&B 3 ep proceeding it and myself thinking those 2 pieces where their best work ever, im not surprised it took a walking away from and a revisit some months later to get a clear view of it, now i love it and cant understand what my issue was in the first place. I find at times it just a matter of timing/mood at that time.
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Sorry if i offended you ottodeth with my (slightly pissed on a friday night) ironic coments about 3 minute pure pop songs etc, some of us old goths still rate having a good laugh at the weekend over intellectual vanity.
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The more I listen, and it's alot of listens, the more I ache for a true NMA stormer that isn't there.......
I can't help but wonder where the I LOVE THE WORLD attack is........ I like it as a body of work but at times it's a frustrating work...... Willful lack of, what to me, seem obvious things...... There's track with an abscence of bass, all be it with a crunchy guitar riff, but Metallica learned a bitter lesson doing that on a full lp. NMA is famous, even founded on awe inspiring bass and bass lines, but Ceri is playin' companion drums on the track? Ceri's bass skills are proven as far as I can see from the number of gigs I've seen already. Marsh' plays and writes some serious guitar riffs but is conspicuous in abscence alot on the whole lp. There's alot of drone type keyboards as lead instrument which seems odd and off kilter, expecially on so many tracks.... Dunno...... "Not a rock band in a room" for sure.....
There are 5 or 6 songs I really really like, but the similarity in tempo and the strange "building building to a early stop" type feel to some songs is odd...... It feels, as was stated on the Radio 6 review of March In September, like the song was threatening to kick off but doesn't. It's some thing I'd said on early live listens to bot March and ESPECIALLY to Horsemen and Seven Times. Like they're extended intro's or something almost....... I get a distinct feel there's a number of JS's "desert songs" on it, that would've ended up on the follow up to Navigating By The Stars. Justin's said any number of times, they/he's willfully done the opposite of what's expected, and after the last few albums he needed to do something different. Between Dog And Wolf is that alright. He's got to do the vocals, to do that he needs to get right inside the songs, so if this is what it takes, fair enough. I'm intrigued to see n hear the live versions. Especially Stormclouds, and Pull The Sun.
All that said, Eight was a collection of songs I found really really frustrating to listen to, but it has a longevity about it. I'm sure in 6 months I'll feel differently. I'm just glad it's finally here, it's been a long wait.
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Have to agree with you Stoney. I've posted on another thread and have listened to BDAW several times now. I think we can safely describe the new album as NMA's "Sunday morning chill-out" album....especially considering the last 2 albums being very much a "Rock band in a room" products.
I'd tend to agree that there isn't much mosh-pit classics here but as I said on the other thread....the band were aiming for that result.
Still love the percussive, tribal feel though!!
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Sunday morning chill out sounds not far off, mind you "stormclouds" would be be hardcore round are place during sunday lunch with that big old slayer type riff, might be one for the moshpit after all!
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The post earlier about LOHC is pip on, didn't get that properly with the exception of Fate for years. Now I cannot understand why. I revisited cos a girl I travelled to an Astoria gig with told me it was her favourite and I couldn't understand why I didn't rate it as much as the others...
This album is somewhere between Carnival and Navigating by the Stars - so maybe it is JS's desert album; I thought that would defo apply to Summer Moors, but actually the drums make it a remarkably NMA song rather than a JS solo effort even if it is synth rather than guitar led elsewhere.
This album has registered for me, but then I loved Carnival and there is a touch of the Blue Beats and Red Earths about the whole affair.
Wouldda liked more raucous Marsh guitar, but this is a feast of treasures that for some I suspect will take a lotta listens.
Ain't done so on headphones yet, my advice is stick in on yer car stereo mega loud and sod it if it knackers the speakers - I've already fried the front set in my motor, the 27 drum tracks on here won't do the new ones any good at all, but you can't listen to this album quietly. It just doesn't do the whole thing justice
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I’ve been listening once or twice every day now AND I do not get BDAW. I think, even excluding the “fillers”, the songs are poor. Worst so far. I have tried , believe me I have really really tried but this is not the NMA I love.
Justin in his interview said he spent a few weeks in the states finalising the mixing and producing (please correct me if I’m wrong). Sorry Justin but I suspect that might be where my problem is. The LP certainly doesn’t have any northern angst. Howzabout Bradford or Halifax next time. I hate to say this but this sounds like an ageing American “rock” band just going through the paces.
Just my opinion obviously. I hate to be negative. I hope it’ll be great live. See you at Manchester + Bilston.
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Fair enough, MerseyExile. The advance word is that the new songs take on a whole new meaning when played live...
Keep an eye out for fellow NMA-ers in Manchester... posts will be forthcoming on this site!
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The American angle is nothing to do with the songs mate. The mixing of the trax was done in the States yes, but the writing and recording was done here. Mostly in Bradford, the drums recording took place in London. 99% of the music and song"construction", was done in Bradford at the practice room/studio.......
Mixing, is simply getting the levels between the instruments right. Vocals, louder than guitar/drums/bass and keyboards..... The different songs and parts of songs require tweaking and fine tuning to enhance certain parts that the writers/performers want highlighted. The actual sounds were already on tape before Joe Baresi had any involvement. So if the songs "sound" American to you it wasn't from the mixing stage. Just saying...... There are certain things you can do to give a mix a more American sound, but not in the way you mean mate..... It has more to do with sonics and drum sounds especially, and that isn't something that could be levelled at Dog n Wolf.... It's for too rich and grand sounding, way more world music/African even at times than American. To me anyhow......
I do hear alot of Neil Young in a couple of songs, especially Lean Back And Fall......... But Justin has been a fan of his as long as I can remember so it's no surprise really....
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Having just done the first 5 Dates I can assure anyone that the new songs are amazing live.
Munster on Tuesday was lacking something, some of the new songs just did not seem to gel, maybe it was because it was the first live plays and the band were still feeling their way into them, anyway something was amiss, and most of the people I spoke to afterwards seemed to think the same.
Hamburg was a totally different vibe, the band belted out the new stuff as if they had been playing it for ages, and as the week went on the songs just got better and better.
Michael and Ceri are unbelievable the sound and feel of the of the drums is epic.
The new songs sound much better live, and as you can see and feel Justins passion they take on a whole different twist.
As people have already said there is not the "Anthem" type songs with chanty choruses but you know what all the new songs just feel right and they just drag you into them like a dark tunnel kicking and screaming and then fire you out into the light, converted and shouting for more.
Stormclouds, Pull the Sun, Lean Back and Fall will have you singing your heart out if you have one, along with rest of the new stuff.
There are Anthem Songs in there and they will get you, ;)
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"We spread our mischief with a little glint in the eye.
Where there is war we like to bring peace
Where there is peace we want to bring war"
No offence to anyone and if you don't like the album then that's too bad. But I can picture JS having a little chuckle about people being upset that their band don't rock the way they're supposed to.
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Lots and lots of good points and all well made.
I started the thread because I was very disappointed, not “upset”, with BDAW. Everyone else was totally obsessed and loving it and I wondered if it was just me that thought it weak. Between this and other threads it seems there are a very small minority of us who are less than enamoured with BDAW.
Som of us have all lived with NMA songs for all/most of our life. We know that the band and the music evolves. We know the dynamic. I’m really pleased for everyone that gets BDAW but obviously it’s not me. It'd be a bloody awful world if we all agreed on everything. I do look forward to hearing it live, oh yes…
To sum up, I would like much MUCH more angst next time Justin please. I think this thread has now run it’s course from me. Respect and thanks for brilliant commenting and see you in November.
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hi, just got to say got my bdaw on friday.Usually it takes a few listens of any new music by bands that i love ,but this album one listen and i just absolutely love every song ,it really makes me think and feel stuff i havent felt for years. although it is a totally different kettle of fish to the old nma stuff,it still has the passion but chanelled in a different direction ,i love that the band try different pastures ,it keeps it alive like. you can hear the tribal feel and drum sound but ialso feel celtic undertones in with folklore which in part gives it a mythical feel,if that sounds pretencious i dont care im just describing how i feel .but the main thing i want to say is i proper love it :) :) :) :) im now addicted,cant listen to out else at the moment.
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"We spread our mischief with a little glint in the eye.
Where there is war we like to bring peace
Where there is peace we want to bring war"
No offence to anyone and if you don't like the album then that's too bad. But I can picture JS having a little chuckle about people being upset that their band don't rock the way they're supposed to.
Good quote, and yes, you're right, but not all of us were expecting the (to use the most hackneyed of phrases) "rock-band-in-a-room" thing again. There have been a few of those now, so it would have been daft to expect another. Nobody is complaining that this album wasn't TIAGD II, but some of us are saying that we don't like BDAW - and that's too bad for those people who don't agree, I suppose.
NMA are still the best band that I know of. No other band's music does it for me like theirs does. I will be at three of the gigs this autumn and can't wait. However, without putting words into anyone's mouth I don't suppose that the band will be surprised or annoyed that some longtime fans don't like the new album. Personally, this is one of those albums I'm just going to have to admit to not liking and not worry about it. It hasn't changed the way I feel about the band one bit.
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Good quote, and yes, you're right, but not all of us were expecting the (to use the most hackneyed of phrases) "rock-band-in-a-room" thing again. There have been a few of those now, so it would have been daft to expect another. Nobody is complaining that this album wasn't TIAGD II, but some of us are saying that we don't like BDAW - and that's too bad for those people who don't agree, I suppose.
NMA are still the best band that I know of. No other band's music does it for me like theirs does. I will be at three of the gigs this autumn and can't wait. However, without putting words into anyone's mouth I don't suppose that the band will be surprised or annoyed that some longtime fans don't like the new album. Personally, this is one of those albums I'm just going to have to admit to not liking and not worry about it. It hasn't changed the way I feel about the band one bit.
Fair point. And there is really no use in arguing about music. You either like it or you don't. I don't have a problem with people criticising the album. It's part of the review process and it's always good to hear different views. I agree that the band must have been aware that this album wasn't going to be for everyone. The same applies to Carnival, I guess (Which far more people hated when it came out).
However, the fact that a great many people absolutely love this album goes to show that it's not the songs but people's individual tastes that are the issue. I still believe that more of the underwhelmed people will warm to it with time.
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It's been interesting reading this thread develop - like the divergence of opinion and the fact that pretty much it's stayed nice to each other.
As I've said elsewhere I love this album although it took a while for me to "get". I think I do understand why some people aren't liking it though. With a 33 year back catalogue there's no way I'm gonna like everything in it. Some stuff just isn't going to click for whatever reason. Not sure I've got the words to describe what I mean here but I'll give it a go... There's a facet of NMA that doesn't seem to be immediately apparent in BDAW. There isn't a Vengeance, Hunt, World, Get Me Out, War, WWTG, R&R, Imperial Day, Bloodsports, TIAGD or whatever on here. You know that visceral outpouring sort of song? That vibe doesn't really hit you in the face here. Those feelings are in here but I reckon they're expressed in different ways. What I'm trying to say is that I get why some folk don't like this album so much and I guess I miss that feeling from this body of work too. But there is enough other back catalogue stuff for me to delve into to get that. Neither do I believe that we wont get it again on the next album.
I also think it's quite telling that over the various threads there's been a fair bit of confusion over who's playing what where... If you can't tell whether its guitar, bass, synth or strings then surely there has to be a bit more breadth in here than seems immediately in your face?
Finally, i'll echo other posters - I bet this takes on a whole new life live. Wonder what we'll all make of it after the live album?
Anyway, usual apologies if I've rambled on spouting stuff that makes no sense.....that's just me
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It's starting to grow on me and it (nearly) sounds like a NMA album... ;D
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As a long time Fan I respect everyones view on this CD because the one thing we share is a love of this bands music. I like this one a lot. I would say that this one should have been the Followup to High in that I sense a lot of the songs on BDAW would fit right in on that CD. Just the sound and feel of this reminds me of High and that is one of their Best works in my opinion. I still have LOHC as my all time Favorite as that CD was my 1st buy of a NMA CD. Even after all these years I still do not have the full collection of all of NMA song catalog but I am working on it. ;D 8)
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yes,certain aspects made me think of high as well,it just has that vibe about it. ::) ::) ::)
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5 listenings further ... no, it doesn't work for me.
I hope this will be a one off and that the band will find the right (in my eyes) path again - sorry, I'm not into this kind of arty type of songs ...
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Hello all. First post so be gentle!! Ive read these posts with interest. Just to add my two penny's worth. The first play of the album I was convinced they'd shot themselves in the foot. It took me to around 6 plays before it clicked, but thats not the first album Ive listened to that thats happened. Its not the typical rock out album, but I really like it. Ive always though of them as intelligent musicians and this album is just a progression, albeit in a different vein. I'd have to say im really keen on it, as much as anything thats gone before....although Id have to say Ghosts gets skipped every time ;)
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I thought Anna Woman o Kent was spot on.
“...There's a facet of NMA that doesn't seem to be immediately apparent in BDAW. There isn't a Vengeance, Hunt, World, Get Me Out, War, WWTG, R&R, Imperial Day, Bloodsports, TIAGD or whatever on here. You know that visceral outpouring sort of song? That vibe doesn't really hit you in the face here….”. Eloquently said. Thanks.
Huwcamden said “Sunday morning chill out sounds”. I used the terms “MOR” and “no angst” but again good comments.
Thanks Anna + Huw. To me BDAW is the LP that the faithful love and praise and I don’t. No problem. C’est la vie.
Interestingly, tonight I played the first half to four people aged 30+ who are not hardcore NMA fans, including my son and his partner. but all have liked the previous NMA sound. My son had to put up with NMA in the house and car from an early age but just about forgives me. Seriously, he’d be hard pressed to corrctly name more than a few LPs but has always enjoyed many NMA songs from ballads to anthems. Without saying who the band was, I played the first seven songs. Two recognised Justin’s voice. My son thought it was a solo outing or Justin in a new post-NMA band. The comments were “Dad, that was really shite, tell him to get back to New Model Army".
I'm not trying to validate my views of the LP or denegrate others. BUT it got me thinking of Darkness quote in this thread of the “Emperors new clothes”. Is it not possible that some here are so obsessive that in their blinkered eyes NMA can do no wrong ?
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I'm not trying to validate my views of the LP or denegrate others. BUT it got me thinking of Darkness quote in this thread of the “Emperors new clothes”. Is it not possible that some here are so obsessive that in their blinkered eyes NMA can do no wrong ?
Maybe. But what you're really saying is that it must be bad because otherwise you would like it. Is it not possible that it is still a good album even though you don't like it? NMA can do a lot of wrong. To me Stupid Questions is an awful song but I appreciate that many people genuinely like it. There are a few more I could list.
I do think it's a fine album but I don't think I would have been as disappointed as you seem to be if I hadn't liked it. Obsession goes both ways.
Anyway, no point arguing over this. You don't like this album and that's a real shame. But you know that you will still enjoy the concerts and you will probably enjoy the next album, too.
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Well, the new album arrived about a week before my 55th birthday and I enjoyed it from the first listen. I think it is the best thing they've done since Strange Brotherhood, mostly because for the first time since then it doesn't feel like they are just going through the motions. Most of the songs from everything between Eight and TIAGD are completely interchangeable but this album is its own thing from start to finish. No, it's not perfect, it could certainly do with a guitar-driven rocker or two, but it is classic NMA and, fingers crossed, it could be the start of a renaissance for the band's creativity.
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I have just returned from Poland, where I attended all 4 shows. I started the tour still undecided about BD&W, and ended it believing it is simply the best Album they have made EVER.
The same applies to the Live experience. All members of NMA down the years have done a good job, but Marshall and Ceri have added much needed intensity on stage when compared to Dave and Nelson.
I also met and spoke with both Marshall and Ceri, and they were absolute Gentlemen.
I have followed NMA for 30 years, have attended 60-70 gigs, and I am more excited about them than ever before. Anyone who is unsure about BD&W - go to a gig (or several) and I can more or less guarantee you will change your mind.
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The same applies to the Live experience. All members of NMA down the years have done a good job, but Marshall and Ceri have added much needed intensity on stage when compared to Dave and Nelson.
I also met and spoke with both Marshall and Ceri, and they were absolute Gentlemen.
Couldn't agree more about Ceri and Marshall being absolute gentleman. They are great blokes to spend and hour and a few beers with. Ceri is certainly great onstage aswell, but I always loved watching Nelson aswell. His playing is absolutely top of the range, Nelson's bass lines have a smooth, natural feel to them that makes the most technical passages seem obvious. It's very deceptive, trust me, Nelson is a master of his instrument and technically at least as good as Stuart's more raw visceral attack....... The last 3 albums have some truly outstanding bass lines on by anyone's standards. Ceri has some very big shoes to fill, BDAW is a fine start no question, but Carnival, High and Today Is A Good Day stand up in bass lines easily in my listening any ways as a player aswell as a fan..........
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Only managed a couple of listens and apart from a couple of stand out tracks it's not really hit the target although I'm hoping it will grow on me. It has happened before to me so there is hope
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I always loved watching Nelson aswell. His playing is absolutely top of the range, Nelson's bass lines have a smooth, natural feel to them that makes the most technical passages seem obvious. It's very deceptive, trust me, Nelson is a master of his instrument and technically at least as good as Stuart's more raw visceral attack....... The last 3 albums have some truly outstanding bass lines on by anyone's standards. Ceri has some very big shoes to fill, BDAW is a fine start no question, but Carnival, High and Today Is A Good Day stand up in bass lines easily in my listening any ways as a player aswell as a fan..........
which are your favourite bass players?
i'm not a musician myself but sometimes i want to practice/learn how to play bass because i love so much the bass lines and bass sounds in NMA!
People often talk about Stuart Morrow, his bass lines for "No rest" for example...myself i love his bass lines for "The Price", among others.
Technically, which are the most complicated, difficult to play bass lines in the whole NMA discography?
I also like what Moose did for NMA...i love Nelson's style too, i liked his behaviour/attitude on stagen, he seemed like a cool, quiet, low key, smart guy!
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I heard the first 3 songs only because I just came after 2 months project working in africa so it wa simpossible. My wife ordered it on the shop as well as the magazine and first 3 songs are great. I will need more time but I will give another feed back for sure later. It is the tradition for me. When I have a new model army album in my hands I will listen to 2 or maximum 3 songs at the time. no more.
simon
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Hello Simon, definitely an album that needs time. Some here first said they didn't like it, but then they started to get it. Myself, I have changed my mind several times of which songs I think are the best. Its not an album that hits you straight away, but that is often a good sign, and album you will come to enjoy for many years.
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Great exchange of views people......NMA have always courted controversy so why stop now! As for BDAW, its clicked pretty well for me but one thing I instantly realised is that some of these songs live will simply be transformed. Storm clouds, pull the sun, I need more time.........listen through the headphones and imagine yourself in the crowd in a sweaty club!! Really looking forward to the gigs. :)
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To be honest, I really thought this day would never come back ... THE DAY I bought right out in 1989 the LP thunder & consolation ( I still remember the head of the Fnac record store seller in my hometown Grenoble in France, he has not had time to unpack the carton that I had already ripped a copy ! ) ... perfect mix of sound, perfect unity of the songs you know the album that we listen to from beginning to end without wanting to skip a song, the richness of different songs ... inheritance, stupid questions, green & grey, vagabonds, archway towers. For me, the story began in 1987 with white coats ep: I lost a million neurons the first time I listened this piece and thunder & consolation was the perfect album after. But after, all Albums that followed were never as successful .... Yes all the next albums have got master pieces : Get me out, before I get old, vanity, War,fate, WWTG ..... but to be honest all the other songs are so much more interesting on stage…That’s why I listen to a new album couple of days after the new release and after I focus to the evolution of days songs are played live….And here’s BDAW …voluntarily .... I wait several days before speaking here ... the magic of 1989 is repeated again ... amazing thing ... the album of maturity of new model army, wisdom in the voice of Justin tell you again you know you have done well to be true that no other group of 33 years existence gives to you. Perfect sound, exceptional mixing, impressive Justin voice above music instruments, the depth of the drums and percussions of Michael .... everything revolves so differently than the albums before.... But it’s for the best. Did you make it safe? , I need more time, Knievel & Stormclouds are the best songs for me.Thank you for this new gift and long live to new model army… we still need more time to write new like this one.
See you on tour ( starting for me next week 8)).
Cheers,
François
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I think this is a huge jump for the knife !
Give it 6months and you will love it !
Start by repeating Horsemen a couple of times - lock into those tribal drums !
Keep listening !
TXP
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I have always wanted to LOVE everything NMA releases and used to feel a bit guilty when this did not always happen with the last several albums. Justin will always be a master songwriter and as good a lyricist as there ever was, but after so many years and so many albums, he seems to steer more towards more atmospheric or experimental expression these days. Not that there haven't been some great tunes on all of these albums as well. Tastes change over the years and this goes for the musicians/bands themselves. I was not even twenty when I was first blown away by the "No Rest..." album and am now 45. Many things sound different these ears these days. I am a "melody" guy, even when it comes to very heavy music. A "song" guy, no matter what the genre.
Though the new album has not blown me away like I had hoped (yet, but I am too busy with life to give it its proper attention most days, so my judgement is far from complete), I have little doubt that any of these songs would take on a full life onstage, which I think is where Justin's head has definitely been for the last decade or two. The band has always been fantastic live, no matter which musicians Justin shares his stage with and I just think when a band focuses so heavily on their live performance (what NMA is really all about) the studio may not always be the best place to highlight SOME of the material. Sitting in traffic listening to a song is not the same as having your hair blown back by the band on stage. When I was finally fortunate enough to catch my long-time hero onstage in 2005 and again in 2009, he and the band were as heavy and intense as the fiercest metal band and ten times more geniune. Those bootlegs I had scrounged from the internet for so many years did not begin to capture the experience and passion of NMA live and in person. I think this is where most of their newer material belongs and also why so much can be lost on those of us who rarely get the opportunity to hear it live.
Something I've learned over the years (at least with my friends) is that different people often like the same band(s) but for very different reasons. When I was younger I often wondered why some of my friends who seemed to absolutely LOVE some of the same bands as I, also hated other bands I really liked. It took a long time for me to recognize the common elements and less-common that connected these bands and it eventually made sense. Sometimes over the years, a band may also move more in the direction you happen to like, and sometimes far, far away from that part of themselves. Many of the elements from those first half-dozen NMA albums are long-gone. To me, Strange Brotherhood marks a definite "end" to a certain era (or eras). Not just because of Rob's drumming and musical input, but most things just felt very different to me after that album. Less "folky", less melodic, I guess more "earthy" and stripped down (in general). This is obviously no accident and is apparently where Justin's heart has led him over the years. Some things will always remain though and for that I am always grateful. I guess I can't really imagine ANY NMA song EVER knocking me over as instantly as the first time I listened to "Purity". The lyrics, the melody, the violin, bass-line, etc, etc, etc. Perfection. At least perfection for "ME". Other fans might like 10 dozen NMA songs more than that one. ;-) Just like now...the one song that really struck me right away was "Lean Back and Fall". However, it seems to be the favorite of no one else on this board, haha. Oh well, "to each his own" as they say. But isn't this variety exactly what has always made NMA and their fans so special?
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Hi MerseyExile,
I also miss the "band in a room" theory which was adopted by the band in the early albums since 2000.
Presently, I am 41 and I would love to reach 57 (just like you) listening and enjoying our beloved band.
All the best for you!
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When I first heard the samples from BDAW a few weeks back I was distinctly underwhelmed and at first wasn't going to bother ordering it straight off - I thought I might wait, give it some listens online and then pick up a copy at the Leeds gig if it was growing on me. But then I thought no, better get familiar with it before the gig and picked up a copy, and I'm really glad I did.
I need to give it a lot more listens before I totally get it as a whole album I think, but the first four tracks in particular I absolutely love- I can't believe that a few of the reviews posted elsewhere were calling Horsemen 'forgettable', for me it's a wonderfully atmospheric and menacing way to start the album. Yes it's a very different NMA to the one we have known and loved previously, kind of understated in places but so beautifully rhythymic and compelling..... I'm not too keen on 'I Need More Time' as yet, so it breaks the flow for me a bit, but Lean Back and Fall, Knievel and the title track are also growing on me with every play- I've been listening in the car a lot, so I need to be skipping forward to the last few tracks to be getting more familiar with them (my journey to work's not that long! :) )
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Form what I heard so far of the new album the quote of Justin (that one which underlined that it was nit the typical rock band in a room or something like that) perfectly fits. The songs and lyrics are beautiful and somehow more "
thoughtful". The use of drums is very different they are very much present through most of the songs in a more marrtial and tribal way at the same time. Guitar much less.
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I had a similar experience as some listeners with the drums feeling like a bit much. They just seemed to over ride everything else and beat on my head and chest. I've given it a number of listens at a lower volume and it just seems to come together for me that way.
Those that have issues with the percussion, might want to give it a try. It's not like you can simply dismiss an entire NMA album; sometimes you just need to change the parameters of the listening experience.
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Hello Simon, definitely an album that needs time. Some here first said they didn't like it, but then they started to get it. Myself, I have changed my mind several times of which songs I think are the best. Its not an album that hits you straight away, but that is often a good sign, and album you will come to enjoy for many years.
Ive found that with several songs off various albums. I couldnt listen to Dawn from High for years but its stuck in my head now. Maybe sometimes you have to give songs time and musical tastes change.
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I had a similar experience as some listeners with the drums feeling like a bit much. They just seemed to over ride everything else and beat on my head and chest. I've given it a number of listens at a lower volume and it just seems to come together for me that way.
Those that have issues with the percussion, might want to give it a try. It's not like you can simply dismiss an entire NMA album; sometimes you just need to change the parameters of the listening experience.
hi from my side no issues at all with percussions or anything else. just trying to underline for me the main differences or specificities I hear in this album. Go to hear another 2 songs now and I join baby Maya sleeping............night to all.
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I'm listening to it right now on headphones & I have to say I love it. Yes it's different to the previous albums. yes it's tribal. yes it's atmospheric. yes it's not a "rock band in a room".
All of these things are what make it what it is.
as a drummer I wondered how aluminium toms would sound. In a studio album they sound amazing, can't wait to hear them live
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After careful listening I just can say that the album is growing time after time as all the others. I mean I bought my first NMA album when I was 18, I picked it up by chance in a vynil store in Innsbruck. I was there for a period of time. Theoretically to try to learn some German (never really happened). And since then, it is like that. Albums that left me not totally convinced then became classics like all the others. This one guys it is just amazing. I would say more “deep” than the others. Less choruses to sing all together during gigs (unfortunately I could not attend s single gif since the beginning of the tour. I was away for work, family problems (“family life”) and now I am alone with the amazing baby Maya), but incredible songs as far as music and lyrics. As I underlined in another post the use of drums is very different. Much more tribal and much more present sometimes one can only mainly hear the drums……in the beginning of many songs, in the middle…….And after so many years this band is the only one which can make me shiver (no rhetoric but it is very much true just a physical thing), as it happened a few minutes ago listening to March in September and Did you Make it Safe.
Thank you guys for this amazing piece of work and I hope >I can manage to hit the road before the end of the tour.
Love to all.
Simon
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THE WHOLE ALBUM IS ******* AMAZING........................................................................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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From the album sampler and the videos on youtube, I honestly wasn't expecting to like this album a whole lot. Lyrically, it sounded weak and musically limited. However, I just downloaded it from the shop, and am listening to it at work, first time, and well, it's pretty good!
It's much more of a piece with eight/carnival/high, in that it has a very ethereal feel to it, with perhaps just a bit more sinister around the edges. I think from Carnival onward especially, Justin's songwriting has shown - not surprisingly - a greater awareness and acceptance of mortality. Beyond these carnival lights, there is nothing at all, indeed. I may be in a minority, but I love Carnival)
None of us are getting any younger, and some of us, sadly, aren't getting any older, and the later NMA albums are full of songs tinged with reflection and maybe some regret. Maybe the more expansive, tribal format fits that mood better than the old rock band in a room trope.
Right. Back on with it. Grateful and relieved!
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I think from Carnival onward especially, Justin's songwriting has shown - not surprisingly - a greater awareness and acceptance of mortality. Beyond these carnival lights, there is nothing at all, indeed. I may be in a minority, but I love Carnival)
None of us are getting any younger, and some of us, sadly, aren't getting any older, and the later NMA albums are full of songs tinged with reflection and maybe some regret.
Very very true.
Don't you think that with each passing new NMA's albums, their music is more and more melancholy??
Songs like "I need more time", "Did you make it safe", "Pull the sun" on the new album are clues of this side of the band, also i think of the JS's solo album and late songs like "High", "Dawn", "Rivers", etc.
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I've tried BDAW again after a few weeks abstinence, the plan being to see if a fresh approach would somehow lead me to like it more. I'm tearing my hair out trying to like it and it's just not happening. I've always gone by the maxim that a good song can be stripped down to just an acoustic guitar and vocal and still stand up and have as much appeal - I can't see this being the case with many of the BDAW tracks.
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It could be you and me against the world Jack. I would love to love it and decided to give it a few weeks. But no BDAW is still very weak. I have played it to family and friends who are not obsessed followers of NMA but like the music. Not one single good comment. MOR, mid atlantic crap etc. Someone thought it was a bad Justin solo effort and he should get back with the band asap. I know the "totally obsessed" family here think BDAW is "******* brilliant" and NMA can do no wrong. NO. The emperor's new clothes methinks.
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This is someone's piece of work....if you don't like it, fine but let's not descend into slagging it off. I wanted to love it and do love it - having played it zillions of times on my iPod...not out of a sense of duty to NMA but because I love it. I don't imagine any of us pretend to like it just to be polite or in fear of offending the band.
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Think its a bit harsh using the JS solo album as a yardstick of badness. Many people think the solo album is superb. I think there are comparisons with the solo album and the new NMA album, and rather, the new album is as GOOD as the solo album.
Certainly the sound of the new album is not going to please NMA fans who are more comfortable with the older NMA sound, but those days are now gone. It is not as if this album is holding back an alternative sound. This is what NMA now sound like on record.
Will the next album be similar, who can say. I doubt even JS knows himself what kind of sound he will feel like making next. If you don"t like this one, don"t worry about it. Listen to some older ones.
The sound of NMA has evolved, and will no doubt continue to do so. Some of us will like all the variety the band has given and some will get left behind. I have said before, we all grow older and tastes change. I would not have liked the new album when I was in my late teens, but now in my 40s I can enjoy this kind of sound. I believe my taste in music has changed in line with the changes of my favourate band. If this to some people may sound like I am fooling myself, then so what, I am one of the lucky ones who likes all of the albums.
Barty, read your P/Ms mi duck :D
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It could be you and me against the world Jack. I would love to love it and decided to give it a few weeks. But no BDAW is still very weak. I have played it to family and friends who are not obsessed followers of NMA but like the music. Not one single good comment. MOR, mid atlantic crap etc. Someone thought it was a bad Justin solo effort and he should get back with the band asap. I know the "totally obsessed" family here think BDAW is "******* brilliant" and NMA can do no wrong. NO. The emperor's new clothes methinks.
Respect your opinion, mate, but I'd love to hear a justification for THAT comment...
Again, no offence, but I can't get my head around it...
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It could be you and me against the world Jack. I would love to love it and decided to give it a few weeks. But no BDAW is still very weak. I have played it to family and friends who are not obsessed followers of NMA but like the music. Not one single good comment. MOR, mid atlantic crap etc. Someone thought it was a bad Justin solo effort and he should get back with the band asap. I know the "totally obsessed" family here think BDAW is "******* brilliant" and NMA can do no wrong. NO. The emperor's new clothes methinks.
Sorry but balls to respect, I have been following this thread with interest and I did have respect for your opinion, now I don't. I am quite happy to accept that you don't like it but suddenly with using phrases like "obsessed" you are basically saying that if we do like it it is because we have no taste and are somehow blinkered. I like it because I like it having listened to it intently and I also loved "Navigating by the Stars" so someone coming and telling me I am essentially "obsessed" can just do one.
Amazingly enough having waved my teenage years goodbye decades ago I feel that I may actually be totally aware of what I like and what I don't and maybe just maybe I might be entitled to my opinion because sure as hell you are entitled to yours and don't we all know it!
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Shush said:
The sound of NMA has evolved, and will no doubt continue to do so. Some of us will like all the variety the band has given and some will get left behind. I have said before, we all grow older and tastes change
I couldn't agree more. I'm in my mid forties now and having been a fan for about 20 years I know that some of my tastes have changed even as the band's music has changed- I loved Strange Brotherhood and Eight at the time but they're not amongst my favourite of the NMA albums now, and I probably wouldn't have liked the more recent albums when I was much younger either!
Don't get that "MOR, mid atlantic crap etc" comment at all either ???.
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Some strong words there, Merseyexile, that I can see people taking offence at... we're not sheep following a shepherd whose playing bad music. We genuinely love this album. The Emperor has a full set of clothes, and they look pretty damn resplendant!
We've all got our opinions... my own unpopular opinion is that I'm not all that keen on '...Hopeless Causes'. It doesn't matter. Hope others are digging that stuff. But calling people 'obsessed', like they don't have a rational mind of their own... that's not on, mate.
Please respect the opinions of others, mate.
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Aside from the actual topic of discussion, is anyone else getting a kick out of the stir caused by the use of the word "obsessed", then seeing that some of the same posters are listed as "obsessed" based on (I think) their number of posts to the forum?
Mostly just circumstantial irony, I think.
For my part, I believe I am obsessed with NMA, though I certainly don't love all of their songs (including one or two from BDAW).
Oh, and I agree that we should be able to take the opinion of others on face value.
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Fair comment, Williard...
;)
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I have no problem being called "obsessed" with NMA. Would have to say, fair comment. But, in return for my obsession, I get much pleasure from it, so there can be no problem. I do object to the suggestion that it effects my judgement on whether or not I truely like the music or not. I could do a list of NMA songs I am not keen on, and a small list of some I just don't like. But I can"t see the point. I don"t want to offend any fellow forum members, or indeed band members. -- clearly JS looks at this site, and occassionally adds a comment. I don"t want to slag off pieces of work someone maybe rightly proud of just because a particular song may not be for me personally. No one has started a "list your least favourate NMA songs" topic, after all this is a FANS forum.
As such, I would not want to say that like Master Ray, I"m not too keen on - love of Hopeless Causes album, it my least favourate by some way !!
Woops, said it now :-[ sorry JS ;D
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Ooh, it's got a bit warm in here hasn't it? ;D
Must admit I both giggled and winced when I read Mersey's post. Either it's one of those times where the sarky humour you'd get in real life doesn't translate to this 2D communication or.... it's a pretty lairy dig at people.
If the suggestion is that by really getting into BDAW means that I'm a mindless sheep of some sort then I'm sorry but - off you go, pop along now. I disagree with my friends over shitloads of music and quite strongly at times but it's a question of taste not personality. To insult peoples intelligence over their taste in music would be a bit much really. Hopefully that's not the case.
You Kids play nicely now :-*
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right i just want to add that i love this album for what it is, not because its nma, or because of what other people think of it ,but because i do, and if other people dont then to me thats all fair people have different opinions its called life.But when someone else who doiesnt like it slags others off calling them obsessive and other bullshit thats when i take offence like,so that person who said it all ,should go away and not like it elsewhere or just shut the **** up.
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Mersey Exile, your dislike of this album is more obsessive than anyone's appreciation here.
You don't like it. That's ok. Now let it go...
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spot on advice there
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"Mersey Exile, your dislike of this album is more obsessive than anyone's appreciation here. You don't like it. That's ok. Now let it go..."
Johnz, thanks, yes you're right. Point taken.
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"Mersey Exile, your dislike of this album is more obsessive than anyone's appreciation here. You don't like it. That's ok. Now let it go..."
Johnz, thanks, yes you're right. Point taken.
Big internet hugs all round?
:D
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"Mersey Exile, your dislike of this album is more obsessive than anyone's appreciation here. You don't like it. That's ok. Now let it go..."
Johnz, thanks, yes you're right. Point taken.
Good for you MerseyExile. Bit of controversy, but we are all on the same side. Glad your not going to be - ForumExile ;D
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Interesting discussion.
I've been a fan since 1984/5 and experienced that 'up and down' feeling with new releases more than once. When LOHC initially came out, it was like a slap in the face (except Here Comes the War and Living in the Rose). Then, it grew and became a favourite after a number of years. Carnival and TIAGD have yet to take root and become entrenched. High was in the same position for years, yet now I simply can't get enough of it and it's never out of my ears. The early stuff always was an instant hit, the latter - not so much. The reasons why not always so clear.
So, with no interest whatsoever to abandon NMA, I have to admit that I recently bought BDAW…almost out of duty and the sense of loyalty which has always popped up its head since those teenage years. Being honest, I expected the same initial and subsequent reactions to Carnival, High and TIAGD; in other words, some excellent tracks but lacking as a whole, compared with earlier releases. You could get a great compilation from the three, but on their own - somewhat weakish, making you almost think that perhaps the best days were behind them.
Well, I couldn't have been more wrong. For me, BDAW is just as much of an instant hit which requires countless listenings over and over again, just as Impurity did back in the day, or Eight more 'recently'. I love the album and the different sound…so wonderful at 7.30 in the morning or 11.00 at night. :) Looking forward to Crane Lane or Whelans, if possible.
Simply wonderful and showing the unique characteristics that have always made NMA something so special, especially Lean Back and Fall, Knieval, BDAW and Qasrel Nil Bridge.
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"Mersey Exile, your dislike of this album is more obsessive than anyone's appreciation here. You don't like it. That's ok. Now let it go..."
Johnz, thanks, yes you're right. Point taken.
Good for you MerseyExile. Bit of controversy, but we are all on the same side. Glad your not going to be - ForumExile ;D
What shush said. Good on you.
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BDAW took me apart, ripped me out, fired me up and kept me on its pounding float ever since my first listen I have to say. Fantastic work, especially how the moods of the lyrics interface and constantly change with instrumentation, beats and vocal delivery...masterpiece, especially on Pull the Sun... what a tune that is, easily amongst the very best for the long shot in my book. Live even better. Can't remember ANY new album (since before LOHC) whose songs were so well received, seamlessly integrated into the rest of the setlist, and collectively danceable as those from BDAW (at least in the two gigs I saw, Stuttgart & Zurich). I dearly hope Pull the Sun, Stormclouds, BDAW, Knievel, I need more time etc stay in the lists for years to come!
And not to dwell on some of the sentiments of this thread as most has been said... but calling for obsession on the side of people liking a new NMA album that has the highest chart entry in >20 years is a bit hollow.
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This is a very partisan forum. When someone posts equally hyperbolic criticism, that's nothing more than anyone might reasonably expect.
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Im all up for people spouting bolic's on any forum tbh 8)
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I've had BDAW for 5 or 6 weeks now and I'm pretty much over it. I enjoyed it a lot at first but I've found it doesn't have enough to sustain me for too many repeat listens. Listening to TIAGD as I type this, I'm struck by the fact there is nothing to compare to Disappeared, Ocean Rising or any of a number of mid-pace songs from their back-catalogue. It is almost completely lacking the intensity of previous releases, seeming to have swapped it for a dark, Goth ambience that wears off quickly.
When I first got it, I was really enthusiastic but now I've gone back to listening to High or TIAGD when I feel like some NMA (which is pretty much every day, of course). At least buying BDAW got me to complete my collection by buying Strange Brotherhood and Eight. I particularly like Strange Brotherhood, it is a bit more diverse than many of their albums and better for it. I have to go now and jump around to Mambo Queen.
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Im all up for people spouting bolic's on any forum tbh
Yep I spout mostly bollix in the pub on a Friday night. However, this forum is special. My clumsy inarticulate bollox has caused some offense which does not sit easy with me.
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I dont think so mate. Youve made your dislike of the album known. Id hope no-one on here is so easily offended by an opinion thats honest, if not agreed with. That moments passed and everyone should move on from it.
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Im all up for people spouting bolic's on any forum tbh
Yep I spout mostly bollix in the pub on a Friday night. However, this forum is special. My clumsy inarticulate bollox has caused some offense which does not sit easy with me.
[/at least you sorted it out though :)quote]
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Anyone still unsure about the new album, you need to hear the songs live. With the power and energy given to them on stage, they all sounded superb. Really hope this tour ends up with a live album. -- even a compilation of just songs from BDAW would work very well.
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I love the album, as a beautiful chill-out album. It doesn't have the intensity of much of the previous NMA work, but that's cool as things must change.
It's a proper struggle when played live; there are many songs that just don't work live.
It'd be dead boring if it were always more of the same though.
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Anyone still unsure about the new album, you need to hear the songs live. With the power and energy given to them on stage, they all sounded superb. Really hope this tour ends up with a live album. -- even a compilation of just songs from BDAW would work very well.
Well, after seeing the majority of BDAW tonight (nine songs), I have to say that only Lean Back And Fall did anything for me at all. I've heard quite a few people say that the BDAW songs come into their own in the live environment but to me they sounded the same only louder. That said, when I see them tomorrow, I'll look forward to LBAF a bit more.
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i know everyones entitled to their own opinions i just think that this album played live or int kitchen on my cd player is still fuelled by passion but of a different nature.I could feel the passion running through me when i saw em live on saturday,i dont know it just hits the spot for me like,but thats my opinion i love the tribal feel i mean proper love it :) :)
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Well 8 off the album played live in Brighton and I thought they slotted into the setlist quite comfortably. I need more time, BDAW & Stormclouds knock on the head any notion that this album lacks any kickass moments while the more mellow songs performed that valuable "oh good - a rest song" service (esp. Knieval after HCTW!)
I know I like the album anyway but I genuinely think the new stuff brings more to the party - at the very least there's now another 14 potential songs to chuck in the setlist mixing pot - and to me it didn't feel like other material had been sacrificed just to make way for new songs. it all flowed really well.
If you're not keen on the album I don't think seeing it played live will give you any great Road To Damascus moment after all if you don't like a song then you just don't like it! But I don't think you'll be able to say it's not as good as anything else in the cannon because it is.
Note to self: Really must remember my age - day and a half later and I still ache!
:-*
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i was aching all over for three days like :)
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I wasn't convinced on the first few listens I must admit but I always think you need to see the songs played live before they take on more meaning. Having been fortunate enough to attend some of the shows already I have to see I have been blown away by how well these songs have come over live, which was one of my major concerns. The album has definitely grown on me and while it's still not up there with T&C or High for me it's definitely still a great addition to the collection.
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as far as i'm concerned i didn't really appreciate when I first listened to the new NMA album. i was in another musical 'sphere' honestly. More Metal. So my ears maybe were not ready for BDAW. I tried a few times to listen to it but i felt the same....nothing. i'm a sensitiv person so i was wondering if there was something wrong with me and the new CD because each time i feel 'something' but it wasn't the case for that one so ... i put the cd on my shelf and forgot it for a few weeks...
Today, i've listened to the album. And you know what ? i like a few songs, i 'felt' something, maybe i'm in the good mood to hear it. Music and emotions are really strange sometimes..but to really enjoy these songs, gigs are perfect because we can feel directly the music, all the instrument, the voice etc and i'm sure some songs of BDAW are awesome in Live version.
I always prefer Live version than studio version. More energy and gigs are so awesome for me, a pure moment of energy, good vibes and hapiness.
so some of you were right :) when they told me i will enjoy it. i won't say it's one of my fav' but there are titles that are very good.
ps: sorry maybe it's not the good topic to post my msg but i didn't find the one where i already posted an answer concerning BDAW :-\
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I thought it was just me - the 'other' drums were a bit of a surprise but after Sat night happy days.
Some mentioned Mambo Queen - that for me is a fast forward.
What amazes me is that the band are constantly evolving but are never anything less then the NMA I fell for donkey's years ago.
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I wasn't convinced on the first few listens I must admit but I always think you need to see the songs played live before they take on more meaning.
If that was true then the chances of me ever getting into NMA would be close to zero because the likelihood that they will ever make it to Australia is pretty much nothing. BD&W might have "passion" but what it sorely lacks is energy. Maybe they can infuse it with some live but on record it falls flat pretty quickly and, for better or worse, energy is an essential ingredient in my enjoyment of NMA.
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When I heard the songs live in Brighton and London I couldn't get a clear view of the album as an entirety. That's not a bad thing to me and knew the real time to try to get familiar with it was gonna be a devoted moment at home or in a car: ears and heart open, thoughts flying and probably a tear in eye... Well after the gigs there was just the chorus verse of Knievel playing in my head and could still see allover-tattood Stoney standing on the shoulders 2 meters tall like a tower and waving his hands: "Did you come to see a man fall, or do you see him flyyy..." :)
Now I have some views of the album and have to say this is gonna be a classic to me. My wife said too, "that's so heart touching to listen and dunno if it's because of the recent gigs or what".
Right now my fave's seem to be: March in September, I Need More Time, Storm Clouds, Did You Make it Safe, Lean Back & Fall, Knievel, Ghosts, for some to mention.
But to the point in this thread; there's maybe something in Between Dog & Wolf and Qasr el Nil Bridge that I'm not so much into - yet. I guess it's due to the oriental sound elements of the keyboard. Keyboards maybe too dominating in them. The solo part in the end of Between Dog & Wolf should've maybe been with guitar or something, I think. But, what can I say? It's the f***ing NMA and it sounds like them still and always will. I like a lot of stuff Dean White creates with synths and one might actually say it's a challenging thing to play some sitar or such in solos. On the other hand, those two songs may take time with me and I like the a-riffs and chorus on Between Dog & Wolf very much.
I love this album.
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Have to say i really really like this album. I cant stop listening to it. Very different from their other stuff but i don't think that's a bad thing. As someone that hadn't see the band for quarter of a century (or many others) until last rock city i have really enjoyed the new tracks. Never seen the same band so many times in a year ever. My young son thinks its amazing and he is very opinionated. ;)
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How has the crowd reaction been to the new songs?
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Personally I rate it. After a couple of plays I wanted to hear several of the tracks again, and then was more than happy just to keep playing it right through. I feel it is different to anything they have done, there is great depth to the songs, and the power comes across in a slightly different way. I can only compare it to some kind of religious experience / crusade, and my main reason for getting to the Rock City gig last night (after missing them in my home town), was to hear how the new songs would come across live, I'm so glad I did, and I certainly wasn't disappointed. The band continue to evolve, and dare I say it, improve with age! It's all about opinions at the end of the day, I for one and glad they have released it, and congratulate them for doing so...#keepthefaith-NMA
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I have to admit I opened up my copy of the new album with a certain feeling of anxiety after reading some of the comments in the forum. But I knew after the first 2 songs I was going to like it and I do. The lyrics are fantastic and Justin has never sung better. It seems to me to be a bit of "drummy B", "before I get old", and some of Justins solo album all mixed together. It's up to Justin to carry the melodies on this one and he delivers.
Do they perform the songs live exactly like they recorded them?
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When I saw the new stuff from BDAW live it was like they had been around years, I thought they slipped seamlessly into the whole set. As for the album, with the exception of GHOSTS I absolutely love in and my favourite track changes day to day.
At the minute its Pull the the sun, but I love love the guitar sound in I need more time
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Wasn't sure about BDAW at first but now think it's the best work the band has done in years :)
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When I saw the new stuff from BDAW live it was like they had been around years, I thought they slipped seamlessly into the whole set. As for the album, with the exception of GHOSTS I absolutely love in and my favourite track changes day to day.
At the minute its Pull the the sun, but I love love the guitar sound in I need more time
Welcome garyah. GHOSTS is my favourate on the album, but I suppose we are all different. I agree wih you on the guitar on, I need more time. Some have said the album lacks guitar, but when you have really listened to it and let it sink in, there is plenty, of the usual top standard.
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Disappointment. Boring pop album :-\
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It's got great production, shame about the content. Qverall a very disappointing album, repeated listenings have not helped. Just doesn't work for me on any level
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Disappointment. Boring pop album :-\
Oh, c'mon, that's gotta be trolling!
If you'd said the words 'disappointing', 'boring' and ''album', I'd have said 'ok' (whilst disagreeing with you) but 'pop'..?
(... long pause...)
I've fallen for a wind-up, haven't I?
:o
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i reserve the right to append my earlier post....
after listening to this album, a lot, i've got to say that it has grown on me. and really, it does seem like an extension of some of their earlier work. i've noticed that when i listen to some of their earlier works, that bdaw is not really as much of a departure as what i first perceived. songs like 'breathing', or 'brother' seem like a portent of what was to come.
i do like this album, a lot, now.
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Hey Skratch - it got ya' in the end
:-*
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I still don't like it. The songs just don't speak to me like the other albums do. It's very frustrating because I really want to like it.
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I still don't like it. The songs just don't speak to me like the other albums do. It's very frustrating because I really want to like it.
That's fine, mate. Don't 'try' and like it, just go along with your instincts and preferences. Who knows, in a couple of years, you might re-listen and suddenly 'get it'. I've had a couple of NMA albums like that. Concentrate on what you like and your obvious love for the band.
;)
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That's fine, mate. Don't 'try' and like it, just go along with your instincts and preferences. Who knows, in a couple of years, you might re-listen and suddenly 'get it'. I've had a couple of NMA albums like that. Concentrate on what you like and your obvious love for the band.
;)
That's a very good point; after all, it hasn't made me suddenly go off the band or faded the love I have for their other albums, has it?
Maybe I shouldn't worry too much, eh?
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That's fine, mate. Don't 'try' and like it, just go along with your instincts and preferences. Who knows, in a couple of years, you might re-listen and suddenly 'get it'. I've had a couple of NMA albums like that. Concentrate on what you like and your obvious love for the band.
;)
You should not. For the record, my unpopular opinion was always not being all that fond of TLOHC but I stuck it on a couple of weeks ago and thought, 'yeah, most of this is pretty damn decent...'
That's a very good point; after all, it hasn't made me suddenly go off the band or faded the love I have for their other albums, has it?
Maybe I shouldn't worry too much, eh?
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I thought that it was brilliant at first listen. I love that it's not a typical "Rock Album", is atmospheric yet still sort of dark and emotive. It is Completely different than all previous albums and that's a good thing. They are evolving and that's what makes them interesting. It would be horrible if they made the same album over and over again. It's definitely not a typical pop album but does have a certain indie rock sound to it.
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Hey Jack - Nah, don't worry. They already recording again
8)
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Well, maybe you were all right... The 'pod was on shuffle in the van tonight and Summer Moors came on. Something seemed different (me?) and I really enjoyed it. Whilst it was no great epiphany, I was very pleased to have been proved wrong about at least one song on BDAW.
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I know music is supposed to be subjective and all that shit but I can say with a fair degree of objectivity that with the exception of a slight dip in standard on carnival and perhaps 4 weak tracks on the other wise excellet bdaw nma albums have been consistently great! Maybe its time to move on for those who dont like the new releases and pray to a faith that does lead, theres loads of great new bands out there, frank turner, royal blood etc and even some oldies doing good stuff, manics, johnny marr etc, me however today am mainly listening to between wine and blood!
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I'm still not convinced.
Having said that, the live tracks on BWAB sound superb, and in some cases much better than I remember them live....
I do think that for me, it's their weakest album and certainly I rarely play it now.
That said, I love the six new tracks and can't wait. To hear them live