The official NMA board
General Category => New Model Army => Topic started by: Space on January 03, 2015, 09:39:18 PM
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OK, touchy subject, try to be adult.
One of the great things about NMA was their venom. Venom unleashed against deserved institutions/ideas/social mores. Oh, man, was "Christian Militia" a very timely and appropriate song. Loved it then. Still love it.
But considering world events post 9/11 (from New York City to Mumbai to London to Madrid to....), why hasn't Mr. Sullivan ever penned a song in the vein of "Christian Militia" regarding those religious fanatics? Has Mr. Sullivan ever commented on the above events either in song or in interviews?
I believe in vengeance. I believe in justice. I believe in getting the bastards, getting the bastards.... Is that only for the Christian Militia?
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In some way...Yes, i feel that i also want some of that venom back in Justins songwriting. Not sure if the religious wars in the middle east and/or Islamist fanatics/terrorists are subjects i want to hear more of though. New song Angry planet also cover the most of all crazy shit we humans do to each others and to our world. And i believe that Justin are writing about this subject, but in a more..conciliatory and understanding way; One of the Chosen is good example.
For me, i´d love a new Courage or; The Hunt. A song that addresses social insecurities, maybe some venomous new song about how corporations use people and...I don´t know :-) Many things to problematize and be angry about.
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Space, the only NMA tune I can think of that might address the issues you mentioned is 'Flying Through The Smoke'... but I suppose that is generally about someone committing an atrocity, not specifically a Muslim issue, it's just that the middle-eastern sounding music coupled with the lyrics makes it sound so...
I'm sure there are others, let me think about it...
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Oh, yes, I did think of "Flying Through The Smoke." With its middle-east musical flourishes, subject matter...no doubt it addresses a form of modern terrorism. Thing is, well, it lacks the venom which NMA were really great at delivering. Justin used to spit out such hate to the Christian militia, wall street money men, Reagan/Thatcher, liberal education, neo-Nazis....why the lack of such direct condemnation of the modern terrorist?
Very odd thing about that "Flying Through The Smoke" song. You can listen to it now and 100% think it was written about the 9/11 attacks. The song mentions "towers like Cathedrals," "the graphics curling on the screen" (didn't we all see it live on TV?), "the numbers counting on and on" (the huge number of dead?), "tell me what it was you were trying to say," and of course the eerily prescient "flying through the smoke." Very strange to see the song was released in 2000, a full year before the Twin Towers attack.
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Maybe Justin has mellowed over the years just like the rest of us
Yes i get your point i loved the vengeance lp back in eighties. I also remember when tiagd came out and wishing most of the songs were similar to the title track or they would make a album like that. But no point in wishing for what you can't have, life is too short to live by its buts n maybe's. Just enjoy the records that nma do bring out.
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Maybe its a case of JS does not have any strong personal views on the subject. Or views strong enough to inspire a song.
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One of The Chosen
It's quite clear to see being a song about religious fanaticism? But that's only one view and there are others for sure. Often the meaning (a would-be-meaning) isn't underlined too much if there is some.
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But considering world events post 9/11 (from New York City to Mumbai to London to Madrid to....), why hasn't Mr. Sullivan ever penned a song in the vein of "Christian Militia" regarding those religious fanatics?
Maybe because Mr Sullivan and NMA don't like to write the same songs and lyrics twice! ;)
I remember that Justin said in a french interview that NMA didn't play "Vengeance" for some time in their gigs because there were enough vengeance and violence in the world at the time (post 9/11)...and "Navigating by the stars" the album was also an answer full of beauty against the world which became ugly and violent (post 9/11 era).
My opinon is that NMA's songwriting is more subtle and low key now, more mature, they can still talk about difficult topics in their songs but Mr Sullivan's point of view is maybe slighty different than the one he had in his 20's! ;)
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Good topic.
I'd see that the background gave challenges to confront themes concerned "religious" at some age. I mean, at some age when you're younger most people turn against their parents views or whatsoever.
I also think sometimes Justin talks about people in third persons or something.
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I think that he writes what he is feeling at the time. Plus the same song has been already written. IT's just about a slightly different set of beliefs. It's still the same God in both faiths. He is a sexist, homophobic, bigot psychopath in both books.
I am not sure but i also have heard when you reach 40 or so you become less angry. I can't speak from experience as I am younger and very angry.
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It's still the same God in both faiths. He is a sexist, homophobic, bigot psychopath in both books.
Touch :)
Muslim Militia would be a bit obvious wouldn't it? And maybe with a vocal part of the western population shouting for that, not something that needs another voice adding to the bloodlust? That's not to say I'm being an apologist for extremism (I think my approval of Amanda's comment demonstrates that) just that maybe the chaps don't feel they have a new take on things to put forward after all murder, torture, human trafficking, sexual slavery and barbarism kinda speaks for itself surely?
P'raps Christian Militia should just become Religious Militia?
(I should own up to the fact that I'm currently in a very anti religion frame of mind)
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I think that he writes what he is feeling at the time. Plus the same song has been already written. IT's just about a slightly different set of beliefs. It's still the same God in both faiths. He is a sexist, homophobic, bigot psychopath in both books.
I am not sure but i also have heard when you reach 40 or so you become less angry. I can't speak from experience as I am younger and very angry.
Just had to rub it in, didn't you..?
>:( ;)
Yes, Amanda, you do mellow out and it's quite relieving. It doesn't mean you don't care anymore, quite the opposite ( I still find myself fuming in view of the knowledge I've gained in the intervening years), it's just that you go from 'I'm so angry with the world and I ******* HATE it' to 'well, me and the world are stuck with each other, no use denying it, so how can we get along because I'm sick of metaphorically banging my fists against a wall that will never break?'
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P'raps Christian Militia should just become Religious Militia?
That's a great suggestion.
And to those that are suggesting that one mellows with age.....I say HOGWASH!
I have put on some years in recent times and I am not mellow. Go read my responses on the other thread to those that say Justin Sullivan is a better songwriter than John Lennon. To them I say, "You have no brain!" Not exactly mellow.
It is said that as one gets older one becomes more conservative. That may be true, but the idea that one mellows with age I don't think is true. You want proof? Paul Weller is still the same angry prick he has always been.
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Paul Weller pmsfl the worlds scariest man. The proof of most people mellowing with age is if you had wrote some of your comments say 20 years ago a few others on the site would have threatened you now im not saying that's right but it would have happened. As for John Lennon and the Beatles if someone turned up at my door with the full back catalogue i would give it to the local charity shop. I've never owed any of their music and never will it just sounds crap to me that is my opinion, millions may disagree.
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I seem to remember JS speaking out quite frankly about religious fanaticism post 9/11... and his experience in Bradford as well as with his sister living in Cairo. As stated above... he seems to be very keen to not repeat anything... and everything has been said in earlier songs on this matter indeed. Which is why the perspective changed in songs such as One of the Chosen, to me much more powerful content than repetitive condemnations... Also Navigating by the Stars seems to have been an intended reaction to the horrors of 9/11.
Lyrics written in Angry Planet most recently:
And all the angry gods are back, gathering strength as the continents collide....
As the monkey tribes advance, all in a rush of blood, the jet stream blowing
Not unrelated, eh? Also Qasr El Nil Bridge speaks of fanaticism... just a matter of perspective. Which is one of the many reasons why I think JS is a supreme songwriter, see other thread. How dull to just replace christian by muslim...
Signed, by someone who mellowed with age while on a continuous drift ever further away from conservatism :P :)
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hi u all :), for me justin is the best songwriter ever, but its very personal, sure.
he gives me power with his lyrics, drives me to do all the things i like to do (ok almost ;)) even if everybody thinks i'm crazy or its dangerous or whatever...
in case of the discussion, what do you think, it could be that 'Flying Through The Smoke' was written about the terror- attacks in the 90th in israel? maybe its just wishful thinking, but here in tel aviv and in jerusaelm suicide- bombers exploted in a lot of busses this time.
wish you all a great 2015 with a lot of nma- gigs :D
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hi u all :), for me justin is the best songwriter ever, but its very personal, sure.
he gives me power with his lyrics, drives me to do all the things i like to do (ok almost ;)) even if everybody thinks i'm crazy or its dangerous or whatever...
in case of the discussion, what do you think, it could be that 'Flying Through The Smoke' was written about the terror- attacks in the 90th in israel? maybe its just wishful thinking, but here in tel aviv and in jerusaelm suicide- bombers exploted in a lot of busses this time.
wish you all a great 2015 with a lot of nma- gigs :D
Hi Keto, I've also always pictured that song as relating to an atrocity in Israel - no idea why but it's just what I got. Of course it's equally applicable to any number of similar mass murders but certainly that's where I've always felt the story came from.
Have a lovely '15 too and yeah loads of gigs
:-*
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Doesn't One of the Chosen, Bloodsports, The Attack, All of This, amongst others, deal with this?
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After what happened in Paris today nobody need ask why not anymore. RIP to all those taken.
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Indeed...lame, shocking, sad day here in France...my thoughts for the people who are gone and their families.
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Voltaire's Le fanatisme, ou Mahomet le Prophète, still stands the test of time. Criticism of the 'prophet' is as long-standing as the fanaticism of his followers.
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I suspect that the latest post on the NMA facebook page says exactly how the chaps feel.
Je suis Charlie x
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I suspect that the latest post on the NMA facebook page says exactly how the chaps feel.
Je suis Charlie x
Don't forget Breathing off High which was as I recall about the aftermath of the tube bombings
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'Ten Commandments'. '...Bow to the love between you and me, but never to a god made in the image of man...' ' Back to the desert with Jesus and Mohammed...' Interestingly, of the major news organisations, only Fox as far as I know has shown any of the images from Charlie Hebdo. Every free newspaper, every free tv station in the world should publish them. Once you let the supporters of a hardline ideology dictate what you can and can't read, can and can't watch, can and can't draw or can and can't say, what comes next? Je suis Charlie.
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Every free newspaper, every free tv station in the world should publish them....
....Je suis Charlie.
Bang on Sir - seen those cartoons on The Guardian and The BBC. I bet others have seen them on the media they go to. Also read that 1 million copies will be printed in France this week as opposed to usual print run of 300K ish (?) Needs to be printed and given away gratis by every free speaking journal worldwide.
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I suspect that the latest post on the NMA facebook page says exactly how the chaps feel.
Je suis Charlie x
On the comments people are claiming that Islam is peaceful. Most followers may be but the Quran is very violent. I read a few parts of it and it's just as violent as the old testament. Yet people are saying it's peaceful. That's like saying destroying the world, several cities and killing your only son is loving and kind.
The truth is that all these Holy books are about the same god. This god is a genocidal, sexist, racist, homophobic sociopath. Plus many followers just ignore all of this like it's all okay. It's not okay, It's sickening.
Sorry about the rant, i am just very saddened by the actions of religious fanatics. I don't care what people say, if a god is such a narcissists that he wants to be worshiped then it can not be good. These beliefs can not benefit the world in any way.
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On the comments people are claiming that Islam is peaceful. Most followers may be but the Quran is very violent.
Not only is the Quran very violent, but so was the 'prophet' himself. It's hardly a surprise that violence is used to justify the spread of Islam when Mohammed himself regularly advocated doing so, with the blessing of Allah himself throughout the Quran and in practice.
It's hard to believe that anyone would have respect, love and devotion to a warmongering, paedophile. If it weren't marketed as a religion...we could speak of it more freely with the full criticism it rightly deserves.
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Amandistan, your statement about god is bang on! It reflects the prejudices and the small minded insecucities of the people who dreamed him up for purposes of control and profit. 'Never to a god made in the image of man!' indeed.
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Whoa, didn't want this to be an anti-religion thread. My intention was just looking for thoughts on NMA's reluctance to approach the Islam terror subject. Some here did point out some examples. "Breathing" as a statement on the 7/7 London subway bombings? Hmmm. The song is very vague, but, yeah, maybe. And, yes, "Ten Commandments" does go to Islam and the other major religions. Man, that song is good. Concise verses, fantastic chorus, bass line in the grand tradition of New Model Army basslines...a great song.
Quick point on some of the anti-religion posts. Yeah, it can be used for bad, but there sure are things in religion that can bring peace of mind to someone looking for that calm. Just as a good song, a good book, a good film can edify a person, obviously so can a Holy Book be it the Bible, Koran, or the Torah. I'd say that about 99% of the followers of those religions live gentle good lives. That's not bad. Compare that to fans of Jay-Z. I'd say only about 45% of his followers live gentle good lives. My point: Jay Z is the real devil and scourge on society, not religion.
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You being serious about jay z if so wtf
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spot the troll
45% of jay-z followers live gentle and good lives
slating religious fundamentalists and extremists is so 20th century
get with the times
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[/quote]
Quick point on some of the anti-religion posts. Yeah, it can be used for bad, but there sure are things in religion that can bring peace of mind to someone looking for that calm. Just as a good song, a good book, a good film can edify a person, obviously so can a Holy Book be it the Bible, Koran, or the Torah. I'd say that about 99% of the followers of those religions live gentle good lives. That's not bad. Compare that to fans of Jay-Z. I'd say only about 45% of his followers live gentle good lives. My point: Jay Z is the real devil and scourge on society, not religion.
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(http://i.imgur.com/anBur7B.jpg)
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I dont mind a bit of Jay Z. Bit worried I may be an occultist now :o
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If someone can find peace and feeling of well being from religion then I'm very happy for happy for them, don't forget that it has done a lot of good for millions of people.
Back to the original point a blatant anti Muslim song would be a terrible idea. We need to stand together with people all of faiths to defeat this evil the more that we divide the worse its gonna get
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You being serious about jay z if so wtf
"Jay Z is the real devil and scourge on society, not religion."
That's exactly what I wrote and you have to ask if I am being serious?!?
It is actually Jay Z and Beyonce and Beyonce's sister that are the real devils and scourges on society. That's what I really meant to write.
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It seems to me you have some "issues" you need to deal with space and your projected insults and extreme views are fairly indicative of what those issues are, you probally are a decent bloke underneath as every nma fan i have ever met is but you are now just annoying people (and believe me i have a long fuse) and i suspect your time on this forum is just about up, i hope you find happiness and peace.
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Ok space i had promised to ignore you but you can't just come on and say jay z or anyone else is evil without fully explaining why He certainly doesn't effect my life in any way
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It is actually Jay Z and Beyonce and Beyonce's sister that are the real devils and scourges on society. That's what I really meant to write.
Well, evidently society has 99 problems but the identity of the Beast ain't one.
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It is actually Jay Z and Beyonce and Beyonce's sister that are the real devils and scourges on society. That's what I really meant to write.
Well, evidently society has 99 problems but the identity of the Beast ain't one.
Well played!
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I can't wait to get on the forum everyday and find out what Space's latest comment is. This guy as to be on some sort of massive wind up. Think it might be Alan Partridge.
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To which I would say to Space...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV8tciBFpCI
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Guijin. That is all.
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What about this one Master Ray http://youtu.be/AbMSUQE36us