The official NMA board
General Category => New Model Army => Topic started by: Unruh on September 11, 2015, 11:55:01 AM
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There are a few versions of this story which I've heard. No matter what the actual truth, the end result pisses me off. There's no other group I want to see live as desperately as NMA, and thank them in person for being like family to me. The legend is that, during the blood-soaked reign of war criminal and mass murderer Chimpy McFlightsuit, New Model Army were actually barred from the country. That would be consistent with the vaunted 'courage' that pack of weasels were allegedly filled with. They feared a rock group. Sorry to disinter memories of the Bush years. But since my fellow citizens seem to have fallen prey to a collective amnesia about how terrible they truly were, I reckoned I should. Plus it may be directly be connected to my favorite band, as if I needed yet more one reason to hate GWB and his snakepit of accomplices.
OT but I've only now learned of the death of Vincent Bugliosi. A bit belated but RIP, sir. I'm so sorry you never got to put Bush on the stand.
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The truth is as far as I know, no doubt I will be corrected by a wiser family member. Is that whilst nma were banned in usa under probably cowboy Ronnie, they have been now accepted for their brilliance the bad news I'm sure that I heard Justin say in one of his interviews is that the band can't really afford to play America again at least at the moment, though I suspect that you may get the odd show , most likely imo a JS solo gig or JS & DW
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I am fairly sure that rumor/ legend is bullshit. They played in the US for the 30th anniversary tour and dates during the Bush administration. They are not banned. It just costs a lot of money. Visa, merchandise license, getting venues, flights for band and crew, van rental, paying to get gear over. All that and they don't have as many US fans as UK or Germany.
Therefore they will lose a lot of money. Not, gain, not break even. We live in an anti-immgration world. Every thing involves expensive visas and paper work and bureaucracy. Including bands playing. Work visas are required.
I actually don't think Bush was actually evil. He was just stupid. I think Cheney is the one with the agenda.
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I thought they were refused a visa in the 80's due to having no artistic merit. But the Exploited had no problem at the same time. ;D
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I thought they were refused a visa in the 80's due to having no artistic merit. But the Exploited had no problem at the same time. ;D
This
Obviously I have no idea if it's true but it was written in the program notes for NMA at Reading 89. I distinctly remember cos at that time I'd heard a couple of singles and those notes made me think " If the yanks think no artisitic merit then I gotta see them" ;D . I know how that reads and i'm sorry America but in my defence I was only 19 !!!!!! Is true though. and if it helps it was the start of a 26 year beautiful 'thang :-*
Oh - The Pogues were awful, Bernard Sumner can't sing (mind you I did passout during their set so that may just be me), The Mission were brilliant but NMA killed it :)
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I also remember the 'no artistic merit' story... hmm, they were quite happy to let plenty of drug-addled shit UK bands through eh? I suspect an ulterior motive...
But Anna, 'The Pogues were awful'??? :o
I'm seriously reviewing that hug I was promising you in Nottingham this Christmas...
>:(
;)
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I thought they were refused a visa in the 80's due to having no artistic merit. But the Exploited had no problem at the same time. ;D
Hehe, that was good. ;D Umm, well this reminds me about a NMA review I saw in Metal Hammer about their tour in States or Raw Melody Men review or something in start of 90's and they didn't get much appreciation in it. Their point was that "it was 90's not eighties and bla bla who'd still listen this kind of stuff." Oh boy, if we'll count how many of the brave new bands then are still a) alive, b) releasing new stuff, or c) really able to renew themselves? NMA are more kicking and alive now than ever. I'd like to bring the new stuff to that bloke and see his face. ;)
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I thought they were refused a visa in the 80's due to having no artistic merit. But the Exploited had no problem at the same time. ;D
Hehe, that was good. ;D Umm, well this reminds me about a NMA review I saw in Metal Hammer about their tour in States or Raw Melody Men review or something in start of 90's and they didn't get much appreciation in it. Their point was that "it was 90's not eighties and bla bla who'd still listen this kind of stuff." Oh boy, if we'll count how many of the brave new bands then are still a) alive, b) releasing new stuff, or c) really able to renew themselves? NMA are more kicking and alive now than ever. I'd like to bring the new stuff to that bloke and see his face. ;)
Couldn't agree more.. and I was well into my rock in the early 90's!
Never saw that review, but I'll bet I mentioned 'clogs', and 'dog on a string' somewhere...
Many of those bands seem to be doing comebacks nowadays to audiences far lower than what NMA are playing to...
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The Justin and Friends group toured the US quite extensively in 2003 or 2004 (during Bush) and the 30th shows were in 2010 right (Obama)?
Anyway, Bush 43 had nothing to do with the refusal of visas (it was either Bush 41 or Ronnie). And I really doubt that anyone on either cabinet had anything to refusing them, probably due to lack of support of a label to grease the palm of some low level clerk.
Not that I like Bush 43.
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I thought they were refused a visa in the 80's due to having no artistic merit. But the Exploited had no problem at the same time. ;D
Actually Unruh seems to be right, there are two stories of denied visas: the famous "no artistic merit" one in 1985, and another one in 2007. Apparently, the US "High" tour was cancelled because visas were denied, though no reason was given this time (the official statement is not on newmodelarmy.org any longer but quoted here: http://newmodelarmy.livejournal.com/40908.html. Janek, who lists every single NMA and JS concert on his site, also states that the US tour was cancelled: http://www.rawmelodymen.net/nmane/tour/tour-2007.htm). However, the tour took place in the spring of 2008 (http://www.rawmelodymen.net/nmane/tour/tour-2008.htm). So I guess it was more of an administrative muddle than censorship.
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He may be right about the past but not the Bush thing. Who sits there and makes up such stories? is all I wonder.
I somehow doubt either Bush or Reagan had the time to deny one English band a visa to tour America.
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He may be right about the past but not the Bush thing. Who sits there and makes up such stories? is all I wonder.
I somehow doubt either Bush or Reagan had the time to deny one English band a visa to tour America.
Well, Unruh is right in that NMA were denied visas once during the Bush administration. He is probably wrong in assuming that they were banned for political reasons, as the official reason is simply unknown and as NMA were permitted to enter the US only half a year later, still during the Bush administration. But I said as much in my first post, if you care to read the complete thing. ;)
And thanks for your clarification, but I somehow doubt that anyone here on this message board believed that the American president himself grants or denies visas, to English bands or otherwise. ;)
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As I understand it the High tour was postponed not because of Visa refusals but because of administrative errors that meant they couldn't be arranged in time.
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I'd like to bring the new stuff to that bloke and see his face. ;)
I shouldn't imagine he'd give a damn. There were actually quite a lot of people wanting to cover NMA in the UK in the 90s. Staff writers of repute at larger publications. The problems were twofold though - editors not feeling NMA were going to sell copies of the magazines and NMA not releasing any music for a time during the middle of the decade, specifically Causes-Brotherhood.
Those of us who did give them radio play and column inches didn't really get any feedback, positive or negative on them, certainly in comparison to other bands. So, you focus on the other bands after a point. I also worked from the PR and live promotion angles on NMA stuff at various points, conversely there was never a problem with getting people into gigs as far as I saw. In particular the 'comeback' gig at Shepherd's Bush in the late 90s was positively throbbing and there were writers from all over the place crammed in the aftershow, all very pleased with what they'd seen.
It's not been a symbiotic relationship between NMA and the media for a very, very long time. Neither seems to need the other much at all. I'm sure fans would like to see more coverage but there it is.
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I do remember the problem with the work visas when they were going to tour here I missed that year of shows. As for what happened before that . I do not know I do know from 2006 to 2010 when they had the 30th anniversary shows I did not miss a show here in NYC. It was a rare treat to see them and I had gone years thinking they had broken up. You did not hear them on the radio ( This is before internet). and you did not see them on any Video music shows (MTV) was and still is crap. so with no radio or video play the normal assumption is they broke up.
When I got my 1st computer in 2000 one of the 1st things I did was type in NMA and the 1st thing I got was a solo JS concert just him and a guitar singing Better than them. Then going thru their discography I saw that the band was still around just playing more and touring in Europe . 8)
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I suggested George W Bush specifically was antagonistic to New Model Army. As someone who is unwilling to cut Bush slack on any issue, in this one instance it just feels true. GWB didn't need to have a specific opinion NMA. If corruption really is a top-bottom proposition, then NMA arrived when the Bush people were at their height. They dealt out media crucifixion and character assassination by the week. Each crisis more craven than the one that came before. No one needed to tell one low ranking federal official what to think of New Model Army. That official anticipated his employer's opinion. I very much doubt Bush himself, or even anyone within cabinet range were even aware of it. But if it wasn't a Bush appointee, I'll eat your hat with ketchup.
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I remember reading somewhere that the original case in the mid-80s was a bit of tit-for-tat between US and UK authorities and NMA got caught up in it.
JS talks about it in this article from the 80s: https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=komIU8HDrboC&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=New+Model+Army+lack+of+artistic+merit+US+visa&source=bl&ots=1zMO1UA1tP&sig=H3gI_dZIMGlQ6NXEhEXtSo3U4a0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAWoVChMIq-Cm2feHyAIVwRWUCh2YpwTj#v=onepage&q=New%20Model%20Army%20lack%20of%20artistic%20merit%20US%20visa&f=false
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I suggested George W Bush specifically was antagonistic to New Model Army. As someone who is unwilling to cut Bush slack on any issue, in this one instance it just feels true. GWB didn't need to have a specific opinion NMA. If corruption really is a top-bottom proposition, then NMA arrived when the Bush people were at their height. They dealt out media crucifixion and character assassination by the week. Each crisis more craven than the one that came before. No one needed to tell one low ranking federal official what to think of New Model Army. That official anticipated his employer's opinion. I very much doubt Bush himself, or even anyone within cabinet range were even aware of it. But if it wasn't a Bush appointee, I'll eat your hat with ketchup.
Do you know anything about the US bureaucratic system? The people at the bottom are life long employees and don't give a shit about who's in office. All they care about is getting in at 8:00 AM, 30 min for lunch and off by 4:00 PM. They don't care if cases sit in their in-box for 6 months or that someone filling out the forms missed a check box Form 1073-C (accidentally). They just want to do the minimal amount of work to get them through to retirement. Not that that's so bad; that's exactly what I do at a corporate 500 company.
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I think i would rather kill myself than work for a corporation. It just seems so meaningless. It's like do the motions and go home. Nothing innovative or exciting. I just don't understand the appeal or desire to be miserable for money.
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But, A, people take what they can get if the alternative is poverty and not being able to feed their families... not everyone has the courage to what you did, they just have to get through this day and the next and the one after that...
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I must hold a hand up to being a US consumer. A major part of my job is GC. most of the everyday consumables like septa, inlet liners, gold seals, syringes, GC vials and caps. The best GC columns now come from America (evidently).
SGE (an Australian company) used to make excellent syringes to 5 and 10 microliter. very robust and capable of taking any force on the plunger. I have a box of them now, I installed one in July on one of my GCs. 'kin brilliant. Hamilton microsyringes all the way!!
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so, im not entirely US. maybe if I was a dog and you had a biscuit? or vice versa?
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Work can be what you make it , work mates make all the difference When I was married and the kids were younger I used to work for nacco materials handling ( north American coal cooperation) who had bought out hyster/yale forklifts. A fairly big company I would guess, it was good money back then fck more than most are paying now around here, I certainly don't have any regrets it paid the rent and put food on the table
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pol, I don't know where your from
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I must hold a hand up to being a US consumer. A major part of my job is GC. most of the everyday consumables like septa, inlet liners, gold seals, syringes, GC vials and caps. The best GC columns now come from America (evidently).
SGE (an Australian company) used to make excellent syringes to 5 and 10 microliter. very robust and capable of taking any force on the plunger. I have a box of them now, I installed one in July on one of my GCs. 'kin brilliant. Hamilton microsyringes all the way!!
Coumarin - I have no clue what you're on about, but I googled SGE CG syringes and about pissed myself. Scary stuff there. I don't want to know your occupation or hobby :).
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I must hold a hand up to being a US consumer. A major part of my job is GC. most of the everyday consumables like septa, inlet liners, gold seals, syringes, GC vials and caps. The best GC columns now come from America (evidently).
SGE (an Australian company) used to make excellent syringes to 5 and 10 microliter. very robust and capable of taking any force on the plunger. I have a box of them now, I installed one in July on one of my GCs. 'kin brilliant. Hamilton microsyringes all the way!!
Coumarin - I have no clue what you're on about, but I googled SGE CG syringes and about pissed myself. Scary stuff there. I don't want to know your occupation or hobby :).
Gas Chromatography, since you didn't want to know
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Without getting to any dispute about the Bush administration, which was an absolute nightmare for any sentient American (thanks for ISIS btw, Dubya), I admit I don't have an intimate knowledge of the US bureaucratic system. But I do know Bush cronies packed every possible position with other Bush cronies. 'Heckuvajob' Brownie is a good example. But no more about Chimpy McFlightsuit. What I really want to know is when NMA will finally come to New York or Boston and give me a chance to see them. I've got a lot to thank them for.
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Chimpy McFlightsuit.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Fantastic :-*
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I suggested George W Bush specifically was antagonistic to New Model Army. As someone who is unwilling to cut Bush slack on any issue, in this one instance it just feels true. GWB didn't need to have a specific opinion NMA. If corruption really is a top-bottom proposition, then NMA arrived when the Bush people were at their height. They dealt out media crucifixion and character assassination by the week. Each crisis more craven than the one that came before. No one needed to tell one low ranking federal official what to think of New Model Army. That official anticipated his employer's opinion. I very much doubt Bush himself, or even anyone within cabinet range were even aware of it. But if it wasn't a Bush appointee, I'll eat your hat with ketchup.
Do you know anything about the US bureaucratic system? The people at the bottom are life long employees and don't give a shit about who's in office. All they care about is getting in at 8:00 AM, 30 min for lunch and off by 4:00 PM. They don't care if cases sit in their in-box for 6 months or that someone filling out the forms missed a check box Form 1073-C (accidentally). They just want to do the minimal amount of work to get them through to retirement. Not that that's so bad; that's exactly what I do at a corporate 500 company.
Well said. We would all love it to be a conspiracy but I doubt it. The average civil servants is rarely tied so to the heads of government.
From talking with Justin, he said that the second time they did not get visas was likely due to timing - not enough time between application and the start of the tour. They did get the visas after the proposed tour dates and came with the next album release tour.
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Why just NY or Boston? Chances are if UK bands come to US, they come there.
They completely miss the south-east. I can't blame them though. The audience are probably too small.
Personally if I would travel to do a US tour, I would hope for California and Pacific North-west.
You could always travel to Europe to see them. That's what I do but it's probably easier because I permanently travel.
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Why just NY or Boston? Chances are if UK bands come to US, they come there.
They completely miss the south-east. I can't blame them though. The audience are probably too small.
Personally if I would travel to do a US tour, I would hope for California and Pacific North-west.
You could always travel to Europe to see them. That's what I do but it's probably easier because I permanently travel.
Ah - But they did come to the south-east as Justin and Friends. I saw them in Nashville and Lexington or Louisville. They also made it to Atlanta. Unfortunately, most of the audience in the shows I saw was the family that traveled over and followed them around. Tommy said that they were glad they came, but don't expect them back any time soon, and if we wanted to see them again, we'd need to travel to at least Chicago. So, I made damn sure I went to the NY shows for the 30th.
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Why just NY or Boston? Chances are if UK bands come to US, they come there.
They completely miss the south-east. I can't blame them though. The audience are probably too small.
Personally if I would travel to do a US tour, I would hope for California and Pacific North-west.
You could always travel to Europe to see them. That's what I do but it's probably easier because I permanently travel.
The issue is the cost of the Visas and the number of shows you would have to do to make back the money (shows with big audiences so they get a sizable fee).
True that most bands tend do the north east and across to Chicago and then on to the west coast (California, Arizona and maybe Oregon - not much between San Francisco and Portland).