Attacks on alternative sub-cultures a hate crime in Manchester

[Scruff225]

Some good news out of the the terrible Sophie Lancaster murder case.

Manchester Police now recognizing that attacks on alternative sub-cultures can be ruled a hate crime. Will be interesting to see how they implement it.

http://news.yahoo.com/1-part-uk-goths-hate-crime-victims-172544843.html

[Shush]

Great stuff.

Could prove a fitting legacy for Sophie, and a tribute to her mother and all others that have worked for it.

[Scruff225]

Great stuff.

Could prove a fitting legacy for Sophie, and a tribute to her mother and all others that have worked for it.

Yes, hard work that have final paid off and indeed a tribute to Sophie's mother and the foundation. A terrible shame that change sometimes needs a catalyst of a lost life - not great as a human race, are we? 

[Shush]

It is a shame, but its always the case. We don"t ban it, monitor it, legislate against it until some damage has been done. The stable door is only ever closed when the horse is a mile down the road.

[Guy]

I'm glad that the hard work of campaigners has resulted in Manchester police deciding to record these attacks. It will give a fuller picture of a problem that only seems to come to light when there is a tragic murder or very serious assault.

If there is any compelling data, then law makers could consider extending hate crime legislation to 'alternatives' (god I hate that expression). But right now I think that the changes being proposed by some could make innocent people into targets which would completely defeat the object of this.

[marius]

even an article in the dutch press;

http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/04/04/iemand-te-grazen-om-zijn-zwarte-nagellak-is-dat-net-zo-erg-als-potenrammen/

[Scruff225]

Should point out that I'm in California and it made it to the front page of Yahoo local here 

[Master Ray]

I'd love to think that it would be something that would make a difference but, being the cynic that I am, I think that it is more empty crowd-pleasing posturing from a police force and government that are utterly and morally bankrupt.  Sorry.

I was the victim of a random and prolonged street assault last year, one that put me in hospital, black and blue and covered in blood.  I had the base of my spine stamped on, my nose fractured and this evil bastard screaming 'I'm going to kill you, you f***ing c***!' The coppers caught up with this guy and then let him off with a caution (which we all know is worth less than a little slap on the wrist) because, and I quote their exact words...

'He said he was sorry'.

I made a complaint and had a callback from a senior police officer who basically told me that they followed official Home Office guidelines and made me feel like I was wasting their time.  Case closed, the police don't give a crap.  They got out of it as they will get out of subsequent incidents, regardless of some Act that might have been passed in the meantime.

This new policy is utterly unworkable because how do you define the whole subculture thing?  Dreads, make-up on guys, long hair, a few piercings, an NMA T-shirt?  I'm in my 40's now and look a lot more 'normal' than I used to, would the attack on me qualify as a hate crime?  If not, why not?  I'd say that leaving someones blood spattered all over the pavement, whatever they look like, qualifies as HATE.

Again, I'm sorry for posting a downbeat message, I know a lot of you reading this are thinking as this as a step forwards, I just genuinely think it's an empty promise and I think that Sophie's memory deserves better.

[Guy]

Really sorry to hear this. Put in a claim to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board and add your abysmal treatment by the authorites as an aggravating factor.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/victims-and-witnesses/cica/am-i-eligible

[Shush]

Very sorry to hear that Ray, I hope you made a full recovery.

From what little I know about these matters, I would assume this was his first offence for the crime off assault. Our  system allows you to commit your first offence, and get let of with a caution, as long as you acknowledge what you did was wrong, and you show regret. The crime is recorded, and if you commit a similar offence again, the second time you are charged. His caution will be on his record. That is certainly the way it works with shop lifting, and I am sure I heard you also now only get a caution for your first burglary.

From what happened to you, your cynicism is understandable. I was one of those who posted a welcome to the new legislation, as it just feels like a step in the right direction.

You do raise a very valid point about how do you define what a sub culture is. I used to dress full on punk 20 years ago, ripped cloths, the jacket, the hair, the lot. That then was more black and white.  But, are you sub culture if you where an Iron Maiden T shirt, or just like having your hair long if your a bloke. Will your taste in music be a ruling factor. Will you have to be punk, goth, emo, or any other alternative follower, or will it just be the way you are dressed or look. The barmaid at a local pub to me has terrible taste in music, liking any old fodder that shows up in the charts. She dresses quite normally, but she is covered in tattoos. Will that also rate as being sub culture ?

Could prove to be interesting when it is first used in Court.

Again, sorry to hear what happened to you Ray, don"t let it change who you are, and give the bastard a victory, he doesn"t deserve it.

[Toronto Popular Front]

further to what Master Ray brought up, surely a crime is a crime and each crime of the same nature should be treated equally by the police & courts, meaning assault is assault no matter what the reason, murder is murder, manslaughter and on and on. could it get to the point where a white person robs a coloured persons house (or the other way around) and the media & press will be treating like a hate crime when it was a burglary. all this would do would bog down the legal system with more complications. yes we should be more accepting and tolerant towards different cultures etc but i think it can go too far sometimes for its own good

[Master Ray]

Thanks for your kind words, guys, really appreciate it.

I tried the whole criminal compensation thing, apparently I wasn't injured badly enough.  Damn, I should have let the bastard stamp on my head a few times!

And as for the whole first offence thing, well, I identified the bastard from a photocopy of a mugshot.  Looks like an innocent man, dunnit?  I also have it on good authority ( I have a couple of friends who do admin work for the police) that this fine gentleman has multiple crimes in his name, some of them violent.  First offence, eh?

I'm not gonna bang on about this crap any longer, I think you all know where I'm coming from.
And I hate the fact that this supposed step-forward for the persecution of 'alternative cultures' is about as worthy as a fart in the wind.

I think Mr Sullivan had it right when he wrote 'Vengeance' and 'The Hunt'... it's no coincidence that I listen to those songs a lot these days...

 

[Shush]

Sorry Ray, didn"t realise. If he is a habitual criminal, your bitterness is fully understandable.

Maybe your local Police have given up trying to prosecute him, waisting their own time.

Next time he fancies aving a go, he might bump into someone Stoneys size.

[Darkness]

I remember when you had as much to fear from the Police in Manchester as you did the Perrys, if you were a punk.

[Scruff225]

update! 

First two people were arrested  over an assault on an "emo" teenager as “hate crime”. Progress!

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/11/17706049-uk-cops-make-first-arrests-for-hate-crime-against-emo-subculture?lite