Woolwich...

[Master Ray]

What an awful thing to happen today.  Two sick, evil m***********s butcher a man (who may, or may not have been, a soldier) and blame it on a distortion of the religion that they claim to follow (which is peaceful in it's truest form, anyone rational knows that) yet that act will do nothing but inflame hatred in the minds of idiot Sun and Daily Mail readers, which I suspect will provoke racial hatred and, possibly, riots that will make last years skirmishes look like a kiddies birthday party...

What's pissing me off is that people I know on FB, otherwise decent and rational folk, are already posting pictures of Union Jack flags and messages that even the EDL might describe as 'a bit much'.

NMA once said 'I love the world'... but I'm so f****d off with the world right now.

[texaspete]

I think the words of Bloodsports pretty much sum up how this has left us feeling. JS really did hit the bullseye on that song. The red touch paper has been lit.....
Dark, dark days!

[ldopas]

Hold on a mo. Why this extrapolation against Sun and Mail readers. Arent people who read the Guardian and Independent outraged by this as well? Erm yes they are, just go and read their forums.

Why is it when something like this happens we go straight from the event to assuming most Brits will roam the streets attacking muslims? It wont happen trust me, we arent that country.

There have been some incidents, and while predictable, they do not represent the vast majority of us, like the insane murderers, they are people who live fantasy lives coccooned in a world of hate. Unfortunately extremists of both right and left live in our communities and always have done.

A man was hacked to death. Can we just get our head round that without the need to predict things that may never come to pass, and save the "i bet the right wingers will...." crystal ball gazing for a day or two? We're better than that arent we?

[Stoney]

To be fair the Right Wingers were jumping fer outraged joy almost imediately....... Loathesome bastards that they are........... A man is BUTCHERED in the street, so throwing bottles at the police makes all better as usual........... SCUM.
As bad as the warped minded pair of psycho's who WANTED the Police to make THEM martyrs....... Sadly, no virgin rape dates in heaven just yet fer those two morons! Shame........
Utterly sickening events all 'round........... I've deleted a bunch of morons on Facebook fer coming out of the closet and showing their true Zealots inside....... God only knows what the next few days will unleash......... 

[Master Ray]

Hold on a mo. Why this extrapolation against Sun and Mail readers. Arent people who read the Guardian and Independent outraged by this as well? Erm yes they are, just go and read their forums.

Why is it when something like this happens we go straight from the event to assuming most Brits will roam the streets attacking muslims? It wont happen trust me, we arent that country.

There have been some incidents, and while predictable, they do not represent the vast majority of us, like the insane murderers, they are people who live fantasy lives coccooned in a world of hate. Unfortunately extremists of both right and left live in our communities and always have done.

A man was hacked to death. Can we just get our head round that without the need to predict things that may never come to pass, and save the "i bet the right wingers will...." crystal ball gazing for a day or two? We're better than that arent we?

Appreciate what you'e saying, Idopas, but I think you've got a bit more faith in people than I have... for the record, I hope that you're right and I'm wrong.  Integration of other races or religions, in my hometown, isn't going too well among certain factions and it only takes a bit of media hysteria to crank it up to dangerous levels.  I've already seen swastikas painted on houses inhabited by Polish people.  How long before somebody attacks a mosque?  Or goes, to use that awful expression, 'paki-bashing' in the name of that poor dead soldier?

'We're better than that'? I think you, me and any remotely decent person are, but I'm not sure about the rest of 'em.  Sorry.

[Toronto Popular Front]

i think you are both right, on one hand the majority of the population will realise these were two nutters who have committed a horrible attrocity, however there will be small pockets of the population like the EDL who will be fuelled by this. As for the religious side of it I think that the modern world may not be too compatible with any of the major religions & they are all too full of contradiction & mis-interpretation, look at Christianity, Jesus was a peaceful man wasn't he, yet he overturned the tables of the money lenders which surely was a violent aggressive act

On the other hand though, from what i have been seeing of the 'general public' these last few years they do seem to be a bit easily led / naive, and my fear would be if this were to happen and again people might start heading over to the right. What i mean is parties like UKIP prey on peoples fears (i can this in members of my own family) & a few year ago one of my mothers friends was going to vote BNP because they promised to sort out her bin collections!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not sure if see really new who they were.

[Guy]

I had the misfortune to be dispatched with my camera to Woolwich on Wednesday to cover the aftermath of the murder. The locals were in a state of numbness about what had happened. It is a poor area and the army barracks is very much part of the community. Nothing like this has happened since 1974 when the provos blew up a pub used by off duty soldiers.

At the local Mosque there was a genuine fear of what may happen next. Like most Muslim places of worship in London it has a zero tolerance policy to extremists and has enforced a ban on them for a number of years. The tabloid press were there in force asking a multitude of stupid questions and generally doing their bit to add to the tension in the air. Though it was also nice to see the local bishop and rector in attendance making a goodwill visit. There are strong ties in the area across all faiths.

When it got dark the media left and the police showed up to warn the people that they were expecting trouble. At present there have been 80 acts of retaliation against the Muslim community recorded on Wednesday alone. Those are just the ones that have been reported. Racists are always quick to exploit any situation that gives credibility to their views. The Mosque held evening prayers as normal while some nervous plods were left guarding the entrance to the place.

I then got a call to say that the EDL were gathering at a pub near the centre. Sure enough around 150 of them were showing their respect to the murdered soldier by getting shit faced and chucking bottles and glasses at the police and any passers by that they didn't like the look of. The sad thing is, that until three days ago, they were (as an organisation) imploding. Like all extreme right  groupings they had started fighting amongst themselves and seemed to be in sharp decline. The actions of those two barbaric cretins has breathed new life into them.

Of course whenever an act of insanity dominates the news agenda it will always be used a political tool by cynics on all sides. It is no coincidence that UKIP has not mentioned Eastern Europeans since Wednesday and it is whole heartedly talking about Islam instead. The reality is that last year the murder rate in England and Wales dropped. But 550 families suffered the same pain that is being experienced by the family of that innocent soldier right now. However unlike all of the others this murder is touching everyone due to its unique nature and the sickening addiction our media has to fear and drama. The religious and political dimension that motivated those two deluded scumbags has consequences for thousands of communities across the UK. Which is exactly what they wanted…

[Tony S]

Let's hear it for those 3 women who confronted the killers during the aftermath. I'm so impressed by the actions of that cub scout leader who engaged one of them in conversation to draw his attention away from other bystanders, for fear he may attack someone else. "Better me than a child" she said. Quiet, modest, and dignified braveness - in total contrast to those EDL 'protestors'.

[Mike]

This whole "they did such-and-such so they aren't proper examples of their type" is a cop-out line used by ostriches displaying cognitive dissonance over something they're too heavily invested in to accept the truth about.

[ldopas]

This whole "they did such-and-such so they aren't proper examples of their type" is a cop-out line used by ostriches displaying cognitive dissonance over something they're too heavily invested in to accept the truth about.

To which do you refer. The nutjobs who hacked that soldier to death in the name of islam? Are you saying we should believe that this behaviour is rife in muslim communities, because I think that is not correct at all. Or do you mean the EDL is basically all of us? Either of those I certainly reject and I suspect others will as well.

[ldopas]

To the rest of you. Yes I guess your replies to my post are fair and I take everyones points.

In a free society we unfortunately have to tolerate zealots of both right and left, religious fanatics and lunatics. BUT Im sad that some of you, especially you Master Ray who seems a decent sort, that you have so little faith in humans.

The EDL are scum, end off. However people who smash shops up and chuck fire extinguishers of buildings that could kill are also scum. We cant pick and choose our "good riots" and "bad riots" based on whether we have sympathy for that cause.

I on the other hand I do have great faith in the vast majority of humans. I meet a lot of people with my company in all walks of life, different countries, all classes. And I find the VAST majority are decent and kind, in fact assholes are actually a rarity.

The issues we have these days is wall to wall news coverage and media which concentrates entirely on the negative. Its a false extropalation I believe to think this applies to the majority.

In the end you have two choices, and they ARE your choices. Be pessimistic or be optimistic. I like to try the latter, dont always succeed but there you go. I find it makes me positive, happier and healthier. We all have that choice.

[Master Ray]

To the rest of you. Yes I guess your replies to my post are fair and I take everyones points.

In a free society we unfortunately have to tolerate zealots of both right and left, religious fanatics and lunatics. BUT Im sad that some of you, especially you Master Ray who seems a decent sort, that you have so little faith in humans.

The EDL are scum, end off. However people who smash shops up and chuck fire extinguishers of buildings that could kill are also scum. We cant pick and choose our "good riots" and "bad riots" based on whether we have sympathy for that cause.

I on the other hand I do have great faith in the vast majority of humans. I meet a lot of people with my company in all walks of life, different countries, all classes. And I find the VAST majority are decent and kind, in fact assholes are actually a rarity.

The issues we have these days is wall to wall news coverage and media which concentrates entirely on the negative. Its a false extropalation I believe to think this applies to the majority.

In the end you have two choices, and they ARE your choices. Be pessimistic or be optimistic. I like to try the latter, dont always succeed but there you go. I find it makes me positive, happier and healthier. We all have that choice.

Thanks, mate, I try and be a 'decent sort', but I'm struggling with it now, quite frankly, especially in view of my hometown stuff that I mentioned earlier.  I'd love to have your more optimistic view of this world.  Again, I say that I hope your view is the one that prevails.

Some great posts here, probably the most balanced points I've read in view of this awful thing.

I have to say, I'm sickened by the way the newspapers are handling this.  All I'm reading is TERROR or TERRORIST.  It's all being ramped up to hysteria levels like something out of some shit Bruce Willis action movie.  We're all going to die, the terrorists are coming for us all!  Why can't they just say that two evil bastards did something truly terrible?  But, no, that won't sell papers... and I suspect that our current government prefer it that way.  People who are afraid are people who go along with whatever they say... but that's another debate.

My opinion, anyway...

[Toronto Popular Front]

i think the worst news coverage was from the USA, the news (w)anchor kept repeating over & over that he was 'black', as i assume the viewing public must be blind, until they got to the statement that 'there was a black man with blood on his hands'.

[Master Ray]

I'll add another post... I had a quick pint whilst waiting for my bus home from work tonight and I heard conversations about this awful situation... horrible words were said.  It looks like otherwise decent people are really falling for the media onslaught that seems intent on provoking some kind of civil war.  I even heard some over-macho shaven headed prick declaring, in a loud voice, that 'not all Muslims are terrorists... but all terrorists are Muslims!' to much laughter.  Yeah, get your political views from an old joke by Chubby Brown, you ******... and look into the name Timothy Mcvie (spelling?), why don't you?  C**t.

Again, I'm struggling with the way that the general public are handling this horrible thing and I fear for the way it's gonna go...

[ldopas]

Master Ray, where do you live? I only ask because of course Ive heard a couple of people over the last few days say some nasty stuff, but the vast majority have been pretty balanced in their views in my experience. And I'm assure you I don't have rose tinted glasses on, or filtered eardrums!

Some people are going to be stupid, ignorant and blinkered. Expect it. It happens with all issues. Today the news has been rerunning the scum EDL thugs, and also one of the murderers in Woolwich dressed in religious garb with the rest of the Choudary morons shouting hate.

They share the same ethos. Evil, bullying, monotonic, idiotic views of life. They also share another thing; they are not the rest of us who make up the vast majority.

We seem, certainly in the UK, to wallow in and only believe the negatives which really pisses me off. Bad economic news for example is instantly accepted, a bit of good economic new must instantly be garbage.

Perhaps most people are happy being unhappy, I don't know. But this I do know.....

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/02February/Pages/Sorry-Victor-pessimists-dont-really-live-longer.aspx