Anyone else not convinced with BDAW ? OK just me then...

[sozbot]

This is one of the reasons I LOVE this forum. Plenty of interesting discussion on both sides.

I *LOVE* BDAW, but I'm always curious to hear opposing ideas, and there is some interesting stuff coming out here.

I think what it comes down to is the fact that we all look for different things in music, consciously or not, and a hugely diverse band like NMA is going to cater to a whole range of musical tastes. By the same token, because they've never made two albums alike, they're going to alienate some fans whichever direction they go in.

[Tony S]

On the day I got the album, I played it through twice in succession with headphones on. My initial reaction was one of intrigue, a little bit of worry, and some encouragement to myself that although it didn't have songs that hid me hard immediately like some on previous albums, that it might take some time, but it would be a slow burning grower. I was slightly concerned that maybe the heavily layered drums were somewhat overpowering a few of the actual songs, and this bothered me because I didn't want there to be any tracks on it that I positively disliked.  Several people in this thread have said that 3 listens is not enough. However.....

...I then stuck it in my car cd player. I think ottodeth mentioned in another thread that his car speakers couldn't handle the bass, and mine can't either. Fair bit of distortion. But allowing for that, I was quite surprised and overjoyed to find that on the third listen, and especially the 4th, I suddenly got it (whatever that means). Maybe it was just some of the vocal lines and the music becoming more familiar, but it just all made much more sense, and even the tracks where I was worried about the drums being overpowering began to infiltrate the old brain cells in a very enjoyable way ! I'm now enjoying it greatly with each listen.  I like the fact that it sounds quite different to other NMA albums, but none of them have ever sounded exactly like another anyway. It still sounds to me like New Model Army, just a new and interesting version. 
Can't wait now for my next opportunity to take it back out of the car, and have another listen with headphones and no background noise !

[dazh]

Going to break my posting duck on this one (hello all!) as I've been through the ringer with this album. At first I thought it was some weird prog-rock tangent into self-indulgence, and to say I was disappointed was an understatement. However after similar underwhelming experiences with TIAGD, High and Carnival, I decided to stick with it. The solution was relatively easy, crank up the volume, listen to it with decent headphones or good system, and put on repeat. It has so much atmosphere and subtlety that you're just not going to get it unless you allow it to soak itself into your brain. Sounds a bit pretentious but it worked for me. I actually think now that it's easily the best thing they've done since T+C, but like someone said previously, it's taken about 20-30 listens. In fact the more I hear it now the more I want to keep listening to it. It's getting quite addictive to the point that I'm listening to it about 2-3 times a day :-)

And Northern Moors... Quite possibly the most beautiful thing I've heard since G&G.

[Patrice]

for me it's a good record to listen, but not for playing it live
(it's not very rock'n'roll for most of the album )
I wonder how this will be in the mosh pit ?!

not their best in my opinion, the last 2 albums were excellent, but a good one with great songs
it took me more than 3 times to really appreciate most of the songs.

[jackroadkill]

You're not alone.

Time prevents me from a more erudite reply, but I have to say that with the exception of possibly the title track, I can find nothing I really like here. Out of all the NMA albums I have, this has been the most disappointing for me. God knows I've tried to like it.. headphones, glasses of scotch, loudness, etc, and it just leaves me cold. Its not music that I would have chosen to listen to had it not been NMA.

I have a genuine sense of loss after this one.  Sure, I've not liked some albums as much as others, and there are always tracks I prefer over others, but thats only to be expected with such a wide range of time and material. BDAW, however, is just like a mental car-crash for me, and however hard I try, I cannot "get" it.  Since every other album has had immediate highlights and often a "Oh YES! God I love this band!" moment on it for me, the contrast is very striking indeed.

Ah well. Maybe the next one will bring it back for me

That's exactly how I feel about the album.  I've gone into more detail on the other thread, but suffice to say that I haven't yet found a hook, or a song that speaks to me, or a riff or drum pattern that I love.  I feel very (selfishly) disappointed by this album - I'd been hoping for some masterful songwriting, but that seems to have come a distant second to mood, which wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't the same mood and the same sound the whole way through the album.

I've tried it on headphones, in the van, through studio monitors etc etc and still can't stomach it.

[ottodeth]

I think everyone's take is great and this thread is awesome, this is not meant as an argument, imagine us in a park having a discussion and im smiling trying to give you a different perspective with random points

as a musician maybe my tastes are more varied, i look for more honest exploration in the groups i support and try to be open to change, not always as much as i think lol, i still like their DNA to be present and i'm into a very wide variety of sounds so this lp was very nice to hear.  in all honestly over the past 10 years NMA is one of the few bands who have a singer that i will still give the time of day to ... blaghblaghblagh .. like Joe Strummer said some time back "well it's all been done already" or close to that when asked why he doesnt write love songs ... i digress

This album has one main thing that is similar to all other NMA lps, NMA wrote and played it so to me it sounds like them as every album they have done does. they're one of those bands, not only thanx to Justins distinctive voice but the music does have their "trade mark" sound (DNA), sure Stuarts not playing melodic bass lines, that era passed in 1985 (ok Moose carried it on sorta) but one cant argue that you never know if its NMA you're listening to or not. from Vengeance to Between Dog and Wolf there is no mistaking its the same group if you have even a minor education on their back catalogue.

The 2nd track, March In September could be a companion piece to I Wish which takes us back to what 1984?

I said it in a different thread , to me this lp is if the Price ep, the Acoustic EP and the Ballads ep all combined their audible DNA into one piece it would have grown up to be Between Dog and Wolf. 

The 1st track "Horsemen" how can a tribal support system like NMA has, who incorporate this whole Pagan/tribal aspect into our whole lives not thrive on the 1st track alone?!?! 

And the lyrics, esp at most of our ages, Justin is a few years older then me i but we're all in the sunset time of our lives and at time the lyrics on this lp can almost be too haunting, amazing stuff. at least for how my brain has interpreted them thus far.

After hearing this lp the first time my greatest concern was the mastering of the drums in comparison to the rest of the instruments, NOT AND BY NO MEANS did i think the obvious tribal element of the lp would be an issue for anyone and i figured this would be considered by the support base as the best NMA lp ever due to its tribal elements that are basically the main course of the song writing.

I do not think there is one great best NMA lp not even 2 for me each one is the best is a succession of brilliance of sound and words.

I'm not too sure why the songs wont work live, the tribal aspect of the lp plays well to human movement. 

again not trying to be a DB here at all, would love to be hanging with all of you passing a fattie and talking about this lp in person no matter what the thoughts coz it obvious we all love it on some level and are all here talking and communing, all the best to all of you always.

[huwcamden]

Its not just you, as soon as i read the lines "sacrificing none of the passion or songwriting skills" i knew this was gonna be an awkward album as they have done exactly that, except for the frankly amazing "lean back and fall" there is little melody or catchy tunes, the production is sublime as is the drumming, but it is all a bit world music for me and almost a "carnival" mark 2 (my other least favourite album). Its great that they are still evolving and it is still my favourite album of the year so far but i expect the next album to be 10 3 minute alternative rock songs with angry lyrics and pure pop choruses please to make up for it! x

[Shush]

I love the new album.Those of you who have not clicked with the new album, you have my sympathies. It is a different album, and "different" will always have its detractors. You can,t like everything, from a run of 12 studio albums, we are all going to have a least favourite.

Console yourselves  with this. At least now you are familiar with the songs on the album for when you hear them live.

to quote arnearne from earlier on today, after having seen NMA last night,

 "anyone who thinks BDAW is NOT a rock album should go see the tour -  the live versions of the new songs are absolutly amazing, head pounding and heavy as hell..."

Have to admit, I cannot imagine Marshall and Ceri holding back much on an energetic set 

There is talk of a live album from this tour, maybe you will prefer the sound of the songs live. Personally, I prefer the live version of Modern Times on Big Guitars in Little Europe to the recorded version for example.

[ottodeth]

Its not just you, as soon as i read the lines "sacrificing none of the passion or songwriting skills" i knew this was gonna be an awkward album as they have done exactly that, except for the frankly amazing "lean back and fall" there is little melody or catchy tunes, the production is sublime as is the drumming, but it is all a bit world music for me and almost a "carnival" mark 2 (my other least favourite album). Its great that they are still evolving and it is still my favourite album of the year so far but i expect the next album to be 10 3 minute alternative rock songs with angry lyrics and pure pop choruses please to make up for it! x

1 - alternative rock sux as a format, the term alone springs up images of wankers and hipsters  and what exactly is it an "alternative too" esp since its one of the top "pop" music categories over the last 2+ decades! seriously people ...

2 - what band and or artist feels compelled to meet "expectations" none that are worth merit, if they did we'd be on an Aerosmith forum right now asking for our daily serving of brain washing, not for me thank you.

3 - 10  3 minute angry songs album (can you say redundant?!?), i hope not, thats what i buy Ceremony records for, and hey even they've made changes (for the better their new lp kicks ass too) and before that the Effigies and Anti Pasti blaghblaghblagh , think thats been covered (like Joe said  )

4 - i was honestly hoping with the talent in the band we'd have gotten some atmospheric instrumentals on this lp ...there is always next time ... the keys that have been ever present in NMAs lps seems like around 85/86 and esp with T&C lp onwards has always just made me fall in love with them more and more,,,, but then one of the highlights for me as a young lad was when Simple Minds put out a new lp and it had one or 2 instrumentals on there, i swear when IDM and Post-Rock (another shit term like post punk and alternative rock) ie atmospheric instrumental vibes i was in friggin heaven. Happy i lived to see those two genres flourish, well within the underground/side street media

5- pure pop choruses? dont think ive ever heard NMA do a "pop" anything and i'd debate for some time that they never have or at least not intentionally unless Justin corrected me himself on that. He'd be the guy that would know.

But then, the Falls last lp was a supposed "classic" and i think its a bit of crap, but then with time i may come back to it and fall in love, that did happen with Wires Red Bark Tree for me but with Object and the R&B 3 ep proceeding it and myself thinking those 2 pieces where their best work ever, im not surprised it took a walking away from and a revisit some months later to get a clear view of it, now i love it and cant understand what my issue was in the first place. I find at times it just a matter of timing/mood at that time.

[huwcamden]

Sorry if i offended you ottodeth with my (slightly pissed on a friday night) ironic coments about 3 minute pure pop songs etc, some of us old goths still rate having a good laugh at the weekend over intellectual vanity.

[Stoney]

The more I listen, and it's alot of listens, the more I ache for a true NMA stormer that isn't there.......

I can't help but wonder where the I LOVE THE WORLD attack is........ I like it as a body of work but at times it's a frustrating work...... Willful lack of, what to me, seem obvious things...... There's track with an abscence of bass, all be it with a crunchy guitar riff, but Metallica learned a bitter lesson doing that on a full lp. NMA is famous, even founded on awe inspiring bass and bass lines, but Ceri is playin' companion drums on the track? Ceri's bass skills are proven as far as I can see from the number of gigs I've seen already. Marsh' plays and writes some serious guitar riffs but is conspicuous in abscence alot on the whole lp. There's alot of drone type keyboards as lead instrument which seems odd and off kilter, expecially on so many tracks.... Dunno...... "Not a rock band in a room" for sure.....

There are 5 or 6 songs I really really like, but the similarity in tempo and the strange "building building to a early stop" type feel to some songs is odd...... It feels, as was stated on the Radio 6 review of March In September, like the song was threatening to kick off but doesn't. It's some thing I'd said on early live listens to bot March and ESPECIALLY to Horsemen and Seven Times. Like they're extended intro's or something almost....... I get a distinct feel there's a number of JS's "desert songs" on it, that would've ended up on the follow up to Navigating By The Stars. Justin's said any number of times, they/he's willfully done the opposite of what's expected, and after the last few albums he needed to do something different. Between Dog And Wolf is that alright. He's got to do the vocals, to do that he needs to get right inside the songs, so if this is what it takes, fair enough. I'm intrigued to see n hear the live versions. Especially Stormclouds, and Pull The Sun.

All that said, Eight was a collection of songs I found really really frustrating to listen to, but it has a longevity about it. I'm sure in 6 months I'll feel differently. I'm just glad it's finally here, it's been a long wait.

[turnbuis]

Have to agree with you Stoney. I've posted on another thread and have listened to BDAW several times now. I think we can safely describe the new album as NMA's "Sunday morning chill-out" album....especially considering the last 2 albums being very much a "Rock band in a room" products.
I'd tend to agree that there isn't much mosh-pit classics here but as I said on the other thread....the band were aiming for that result.
Still love the percussive, tribal feel though!!

[huwcamden]

Sunday morning chill out sounds not far off, mind you "stormclouds" would be be hardcore round are place during sunday lunch with that big old slayer type riff, might be one for the moshpit after all!

[Fatalist]

The post earlier about LOHC is pip on, didn't get that properly with the exception of Fate for years. Now I cannot understand why. I revisited cos a girl I travelled to an Astoria gig with told me it was her favourite and I couldn't understand why I didn't rate it as much as the others...

This album is somewhere between Carnival and Navigating by the Stars - so maybe it is JS's desert album; I thought that would defo apply to Summer Moors, but actually the drums make it a remarkably NMA song rather than a JS solo effort even if it is synth rather than guitar led elsewhere.

This album has registered for me, but then I loved Carnival and there is a touch of the Blue Beats and Red Earths about the whole affair.

Wouldda liked more raucous Marsh guitar, but this is a feast of treasures that for some I suspect will take a lotta listens.

Ain't done so on headphones yet, my advice is stick in on yer car stereo mega loud and sod it if it knackers the speakers - I've already fried the front set in my motor, the 27 drum tracks on here won't do the new ones any good at all, but you can't listen to this album quietly. It just doesn't do the whole thing justice

[MerseyExile]

I’ve been listening  once or twice every day now AND I do not get BDAW. I think, even excluding the “fillers”,  the songs are poor. Worst so far.  I have tried , believe me I have  really really tried but this is not the NMA I love.

Justin in his interview said he spent a few weeks in the states finalising the mixing and producing (please correct me if I’m wrong). Sorry Justin but I suspect  that might be where my problem is. The LP certainly doesn’t have any northern angst. Howzabout Bradford or Halifax next time. I hate to say this but this sounds like an ageing American “rock” band just going through the paces.

Just my opinion obviously. I hate to be negative. I hope it’ll be great live. See you at  Manchester + Bilston.