Author Topic: The Destruction of the NHS...  (Read 5044 times)

Anna Woman von NRW

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Re: The Destruction of the NHS...
« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2015, 06:48:37 PM »
Sorry ldopas - you will think this is just tory bashing.......................

http://www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2015/dec/19/ambulance-service-crew-restart-your-heart-exhausted

Essential service not an emergency service?

£19,500 p.a ?

It's what "the market" demands though isn't it and "the market" is always right  :'(
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Pol

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Re: The Destruction of the NHS...
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2015, 07:22:30 PM »
I'm gonna add something a bit different, today the figures were released for people missing hospital appointments in Scotland, day surgery etc , it made for depressing reading, if you make appointment n can't make it then phone up and let them know in good time. Maybe some kinda means tested fine for regular offenders
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Anna Woman von NRW

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Re: The Destruction of the NHS...
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2015, 07:27:48 PM »
Good point Pol - all too often there's a "me, me, me" attitude. We have rights but with those rights come responsibilities which somehow never seem to be as important to people.
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Master Ray

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Re: The Destruction of the NHS...
« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2015, 08:19:53 PM »
Agreed... so many people take the NHS for granted and they'll be shocked when it's gone... as a former NHS worker, I've seen and heard so many indications that so many people are just utter wussies who think it's a huge violation of their rights if they are ever sick for five minutes and they aren't made better IMMEDIATELY...

People are, as Pol said, accountable for their actions... I'd be in favour of some kind of comeback, financial or otherwise, for people who use and abuse the system... the NHS is a bloody privilege that we in the UK should be so grateful for...

Idopas... sorry for the belated response... I'd be interested in where you have this idea that the Tories just want to privatise just 5% of the NHS?  When Jeremy Hunt (Secretary Of State For Health, non UK folks) was given the job after co-writing a book calling for FULL privatisation of the NHS?  My fellow NHS colleagues see privatisation creeping in everywhere... and let's not forget, Mr Hunt is a proven personal tax-dodger to the tune of over £100,000...

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ldopas

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Re: The Destruction of the NHS...
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2015, 02:04:29 PM »
Sorry ldopas - you will think this is just tory bashing.......................
http://www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2015/dec/19/ambulance-service-crew-restart-your-heart-exhausted
Essential service not an emergency service?
£19,500 p.a ?
It's what "the market" demands though isn't it and "the market" is always right  :'(

The market isn't always right, but it is sometimes. The public sector isn't always right but it is sometimes.

In the end the issue that grinds my gears if everyone including politicians and some here (sorry!) using the NHS to pound out their political views.

I like facts, I find them useful in business for example. Facts (NHS figures) tell us that rather than the NHS disappearing as some here allude to, funding has gone from £63 billion to a bone staggering £117 billion in the last decade.

NHS being "privatised"? Really. Well NHS public private initiative are at around 7% (and by the way 5% of that was under Labour). We have 32,467 additional doctors compared to 10 years ago. The number has increased by an annual average of 2.5 per cent over that time. Nurse number has increased by an annual average of 0.5 per cent over that period.

You put "£19,500pa?". Is that enough or too much? Who knows? Its a how long is a piece of string question. Some footballers earn that in a couple of hours. And if we say, yeah lets pay them £60k, what then do we pay a surgeon each year; £10 million? Where will we fund that from?

These are questions that will be never wrong or right. So NHS facts, not mine, tell us we are exponentially putting more money in. Perhaps we need to look at overuse of the NHS by people, missed appointments that someone has also put here, treatments that should not be on the NHS, increasing influx and increase of population and many other factors.

Truth is, like you I love the NHS makes me proud to be British, but personally I don't think there will ever be a time where NHS response to ever increasing demand will map together. I also don't think there will be a day where people do not use it as a political football when cold hard facts, not just emotion and political bias (right and left) are used to look at the correct rebalance of needs and wants. Sad but true!
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 02:07:47 PM by ldopas »

lotus

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Re: The Destruction of the NHS...
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2015, 05:33:06 PM »
I have a problem to translate this  :( - could someone be so kind to post it in simple old school english for children?

"I like facts, I find them useful in business for example. Facts (NHS figures) tell us that rather than the NHS disappearing as some here allude to, funding has gone from £63 billion to a bone staggering £117 billion in the last decade.

NHS being "privatised"? Really. Well NHS public private initiative are at around 7% (and by the way 5% of that was under Labour). We have 32,467 additional doctors compared to 10 years ago. The number has increased by an annual average of 2.5 per cent over that time. Nurse number has increased by an annual average of 0.5 per cent over that period. "

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Pol

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Re: The Destruction of the NHS...
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2015, 07:05:55 PM »
Firstly I have to say Imo no one here it beating on the nhs to further their political views, in fact we have given it a whole lot of praise over the last few weeks. The nhs isn't totally bad in fact its still good in places, though I'm sure we can all agree it could be better. Nurses and junior doctors are well pissed off , waiting times seem to be getting longer for appointments and at a&e , things at dentists , opticians etc for nhs patients are a joke. Yes we have a ageing population and more people in the country plus people really need to get a grip and stop going to a&e with minor complaints.
On the pay issue I think we all can agree that nurses deserve more than £400 a week before tax and national insurance.
But its all a matter of money and balancing the books
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ldopas

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Re: The Destruction of the NHS...
« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2015, 08:23:06 PM »
I have a problem to translate this  :( - could someone be so kind to post it in simple old school english for children?

"I like facts, I find them useful in business for example. Facts (NHS figures) tell us that rather than the NHS disappearing as some here allude to, funding has gone from £63 billion to a bone staggering £117 billion in the last decade.

NHS being "privatised"? Really. Well NHS public private initiative are at around 7% (and by the way 5% of that was under Labour). We have 32,467 additional doctors compared to 10 years ago. The number has increased by an annual average of 2.5 per cent over that time. Nurse number has increased by an annual average of 0.5 per cent over that period. "

Lol. Made me laugh your post.  :)

Sorry I was referring to the article Anna posted the link to and a couple of her statements.

In simple English, more money is being spent on the NHS by all governments. Is it enough? Nope and never will be.

Now a question for you. How on earth did you get that impressive red backed effect on your text?  :D

lotus

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Re: The Destruction of the NHS...
« Reply #53 on: December 26, 2015, 04:28:41 PM »
A laugh or an apple a day sometimes keeps the doctor away   ;D

More money, more doctors, more nurses - right? And this public private thing is isn`t something bad?
The german system can`t be compaired with the NHS, if you work for an emergency service as a kind of paramedic (a new and highest qualification)or as a normal rescue assistant (qualification `til 2014) , for the service that are nearly  50.000 € a year, for you as the one doing the job perhaps only 60 per cent (taxes, all kind of insurances) of it

And the red glow? I choosed the text with the mouse, used the 5. button of the left side in the second line G green (without knowing the effect) - testing it again now ...


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Rusco

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Re: The Destruction of the NHS...
« Reply #54 on: December 26, 2015, 04:42:48 PM »
I have to try the red glow!

Duck says kwack kwack.

Great. There seems to be a default grade or parameter of 2,300 in highlighted command. I'll try to change the parameter:

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Wow. A change in numbered parameter seems not to make a difference (I put to 7,100) but I changed the background hue to yellow and it works. I tried blue also but the light was too dim so it's about a colour you choose. Red could be seen better.

[/offtopic] ;);)
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 04:53:37 PM by Rusco »
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Anna Woman von NRW

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Re: The Destruction of the NHS...
« Reply #55 on: December 26, 2015, 04:57:18 PM »
Sorry I was referring to the article Anna posted the link to and a couple of her statements.

I get it honey - we're not worthy, intellectually stunted and you know better.  What's it like up there sat next to god?
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ldopas

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Re: The Destruction of the NHS...
« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2015, 03:49:22 PM »
Sorry I was referring to the article Anna posted the link to and a couple of her statements.

I get it honey - we're not worthy, intellectually stunted and you know better.  What's it like up there sat next to god?

It is quite a view.

But seriously I'm assuming you misread or misinterpreted what I said to Lotus? It wasn't a slight, or meant to be. So here we go; I was replying to your post where you did post a link, you did right? I had the manners to read article you linked, I was supposed to do that, right?

And you did say, and I quote verbatim;  "Essential service not an emergency service? £19,500 p.a ? It's what "the market" demands though isn't it and "the market" is always right?" All points you made as questions.

I merely answered those with my opinion and data, which I thought was the point of a discussion? You may not agree, but that is the point of a discussion, surely?

So I don't think your sarcasm is warranted, I don't deserve that thanks!
« Last Edit: December 27, 2015, 03:57:38 PM by ldopas »

Master Ray

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Re: The Destruction of the NHS...
« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2015, 10:40:25 PM »
OK, ldopas (hey, finally got your name right!  :) )...

Firstly, I've really enjoyed reading your recent, respectful messages as regards to this thread and others and the people who come here.  It is taken on board and I offer you my respect in return.

But, in regards to the NHS, you still haven't answered the questions I raised (like the 'only 5% of the NHS is up for privitasation' thing... where did you get that from?   ???), so I just thrown up some new ones... here's another thread to have a look at... yeah, I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet. but there's some pretty solid sources here...?

http://nhap.org/what-you-can-do/facts-fingertips/proof-of-nhs-privatisation/

Looking forward to your response, sir!





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Pol

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Re: The Destruction of the NHS...
« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2015, 05:57:13 AM »
Good to see mr virgin doing well out of all yet again, fck more pies than Greggs n don't get me started on his pickles ( nice with cheese btw) Wonder if serco n g4s will run hospitals better than there prison services , Securicor cares Securicor scares the shit out of you do you wanna come closer lol
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ldopas

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Re: The Destruction of the NHS...
« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2015, 08:58:24 AM »
OK, ldopas (hey, finally got your name right!  :) )...

Firstly, I've really enjoyed reading your recent, respectful messages as regards to this thread and others and the people who come here.  It is taken on board and I offer you my respect in return.

But, in regards to the NHS, you still haven't answered the questions I raised (like the 'only 5% of the NHS is up for privitasation' thing... where did you get that from?   ???), so I just thrown up some new ones... here's another thread to have a look at... yeah, I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet. but there's some pretty solid sources here...?

http://nhap.org/what-you-can-do/facts-fingertips/proof-of-nhs-privatisation/

Looking forward to your response, sir!

Thanks for that MR. I'm not trying to piss anyone off, just trying to get into the debate. Look I don't work in the NHS like you, so of course I have no feel for what is happening in morale terms day to day so I listen to what you say.

But the figures quoted are from http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/key-statistics-on-the-nhs, ie official. And other sites. I completely understand that some stats can be read either way.

But here is my issue with your link. It is from a group with a political axe to grind. I try not to read those as they tend to be most selective. I'm sure UKIP will be in full flow like this come the referendum on the EU!  :)

Note their "proof" doesn't mention the % of pub/pri initiatives. It quotes facts on those that did occur without talking about overall percent.

So for example it says: "A study by Oxford Economics show outsourcing  has almost doubled between 2010 to 2013, from £6.9bn to £12.2b". Perhaps. But this amount is a drop in the ocean with the total NHS bill running into hundreds of billions. On its own it looks significant, but is it as significant? "Private firms won £3.54bn of £9.628bn worth of deals awarded in England in 2014". Ok, but perhaps they were better bids, and these are only the small percentage put out to tender anyway.

For me it is simple. If, for arguments sake, say over 40% of the NHS is in the private sector let me tell you that I would be with you and millions of others marching down to No10!

As for the current percent: "Overall, the Department of Health’s annual accounts suggest some £10 billion of the total NHS budget of £113 billion is spent on care from non-NHS providers (not including dentistry, medicines or general practice). The BBC reported that in 2013/14 £6.5 billion of that £10 billion was spent on private sector providers. "

Source http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/verdict/nhs-being-privatised. I'm not great at maths but that is 5.7%.


....and thanks for getting the name right at last, it feels good!  :D
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 09:00:25 AM by ldopas »