Rotherham

[Anna Woman von NRW]

Must admit I'm a bit surprised this hasn't cropped up on the board before me – I've been following thought & debate elsewhere.

Thing is I've reached an impasse in my thinking and writing about this and I need to canvas a range of opinion and views about a specific question. So I thought I'd bring it here and ask. I hope this is ok.

I have no doubt that everyone here shares the revulsion, horror, fury and desire for vengeance as me. But to try and understand the Beast you have to be cold & clinical. Please bear with me.

1400 victims in Rotherham alone and we know in other cities there are thousands of others. This is large Business with costs, expenses and overheads, the Client database needs to be large enough to sustain the required profit margin. Each invoiceable unit (aka Victim) needs to service a number of Clients in order to provide the required contribution to Business income. This would indicate that in order to sustain the Business they need Tens Of Thousands Of Clients. I'll say that again: Tens Of Thousands Of Clients.

Each one a Father, Son, Brother, Uncle, Nephew, Husband, Boyfriend, Friend. Using the Business services for years and years and years.

I understand why this wasn't  “known”  about to the law, authorities or whatever – they couldn't give a flying ****- but what I don't understand is how did all these Tens Of Thousands Of Clients keep this secret at home, in their own lives? Or was it not secret but somehow insanely ignored/tolerated/justified ? And if so how the **** does that happen? What would make someone let someone else continue to use these Business services?

Genuine question: how did those other tens of thousands of lives connected to the Clients not know/do anything? What do you think?

I so hope I haven't offended/hurt/upset anyone with that. Trust me – the flowers and candles in my home tonight are tokens of love to each and every victim.

Anna
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p.s. I've been very restrained. But I'm a girl of 2 halves. I can't leave this without defining what I mean by Client: I mean a Beast that should be dragged naked through the streets to Parliament Square, tied to a Scaffold and have their **** and balls ripped from their body and left for the Crows to finish the job. We'd all be better off.

p.p.s: Unbelievably as I corrected the very last typo in this (before this pps) the last word of an NMA song was sung at the exact same time, you know what that last word was? It was  “ Love”. I swear on my Son's life that's true. What a lovely way to finish this difficult post.

[ldopas]

Firstly Anna, I think you are being far too harsh saying they couldn't give a "flying ****", I think that is totally unfair. I suspect most of them, especially care workers do give a flying **** and do a job most of us would not want to do and could not do.

Well I will say perhaps the unsayable. Part of the problem was indeed political correctness. We are so loathe to speak up about cultures that are minorities these days in fear of being branded racist that when a case comes along where this impinges in these areas, people's natural default position is to be cowed from taking the action they might have if it were otherwise.

We live in a country at the moment, where to even talk about immigration risks being called jingoistic, xenophobic or even a racist, when anyone with a brain should understand that its not climate change that is the major risk staring at us down the barrel but overpopulation on this planet. An island like ours can only sustain so many, that is not racist, it is logical. God knows if you ever go to Hawaii or the Caribbean they understand it!

Now before I get shouted at, of course racists co-opt these issues and we must be vigilant and swift to disown these scum.

As for the tens of thousands, I doubt its that, my guess would be a lot of these perverts probably repeat offend all the time. I don't, and I hope you all don't subscribe to the Mails' "there is a pedo around every corner" bullshit. Cases like this and others are extrapolated up erroneously to the mass population to insight sensation.

The police, council and services in this case I suspect were negligent because of a mix of political correctness, inefficiency, idiocy and genuine lack of knowledge of the issues. I assume and hope that mass sackings, inquests and most important support for the victims of these terrible crimes will ensue. But the main thing is that we learn lessons and never let it happen again.

[Pol]

Ok I'm gonna to agree with both posts made so far Firstly i would like to state that I've never been to Rotherham or that area and no nothing about there Secondly i live in a community that is 99% whites so i might not be exactly be best placed to comment.
Totally agree with the 1st post yes they are the scum and deserve the punishment as mentioned and more.Yes things were dealt with appallingly and the victims ignored.As the father of two daughters I'm really sicked by it all.
Yes political correctness went a long way in helping these sick crimes go on for so long. I don't know any Asian people personally but it seems from the outside looking in its very much a closed community that is totally male dominated I'm positive that's not that case for everyone and 99% are decent law abiding people.
I can only pray that the numbers mentioned in the first post aren't correct.
I also pray that the innocent victims can some how find the mental strength to try and rebuild their lifes as best as possible my thoughts are with them rather than on vengeance  !
Ps please forgive my rather uneducated use of English

[Master Ray]

An emotive and difficult issue.

Obviously what happened in Rotherham is unacceptable and utterly ******* evil.  But it's also unacceptable and utterly evil that this stuff was swept under the carpet.  Whether that be in the name of 'political correctness' or people flat-out not giving a shit or whatever...

The fact remains that a lot of people knew about it and the red flag wasn't raised.  And much of that does, yes, come from a 'minority' community and other folks who are too scared to be deemed 'racist'.  Newsflash, people... if a child is being abused, you have a moral and humanitarian right to speak up.  To do otherwise is utter ******* cowardice and borderline criminality.

Disclaimer before I go on... this is NOT an attack on any racial or religious group.  Stuff like this goes way beyond skin-colour or whatever church you follow.

I'd love to believe in a world where people of all races and creeds get along together perfectly, truly I would.  Unfortunately, in this world, not everyone is open to that.  I think that the 'minorities' have often been treated badly by the general UK populace which may have resulted in them retreating into closed communities.  Racism is alive and well in the UK... God knows, my hometown has seen enough problems since a massive influx of immigrants looking for cheap (and, IMO, exploitative work in factories and warehouses nearby... the money they're paid is shocking...) labour; I've seen swastikas graffiti'd on walls near the houses of Polish residents.  I can't blame a certain racial group for retreating with themselves.  It also doesn't help that those same 'minorities' can't afford to live anywhere else other than the cheapest possible housing where the usual residents might not be called, shall we say, 'terribly enlightened to other cultures'...

But all of that stuff is utter crap when you compare it to the abuse of an underage girl or boy.  No matter what the situation, it is ******* UNACCEPTABLE!  And, sad though it is to say it, there has been a lot of people burying their heads in the sand over it, thus allowing it to continue.  And every single last one of these fuckers belongs in Hell.  If someone from the Muslim community knew their brother or father or uncle or whatever knew they were ******* a vulnerable underage girl (and did NOTHING), they should be slammed right up in prison.  **** political correctness.

Well, I guess that makes me a massive racist, eh?   

[ldopas]

Master Ray, I do not believe the UK is a racist country. Yes there are these scum, but I believe the vast majority are decent balanced people. We seem to relish in beating ourselves up as a country, I suspect its part of the British psyche. However lets not forget we are the ones with laws on hate speech, racism and anti-gay activities.

Which hometown are you referring to? I live near you as you know and I haven't detected a significant influx of immigrants, and the town certainly isn't strewn with swastikas? Or are you talking about somewhere else? 

Apart from that I completely agree with your post. 

[Master Ray]

Master Ray, I do not believe the UK is a racist country. Yes there are these scum, but I believe the vast majority are decent balanced people. We seem to relish in beating ourselves up as a country, I suspect its part of the British psyche. However lets not forget we are the ones with laws on hate speech, racism and anti-gay activities.

Which hometown are you referring to? I live near you as you know and I haven't detected a significant influx of immigrants, and the town certainly isn't strewn with swastikas? Or are you talking about somewhere else? 

Apart from that I completely agree with your post. 

I live in Crewe, Cheshire.  There is a lot of immigration right now and I have absolutely no problem with that, truly I don't.  But I HAVE seen the racial tension and, yes, those swastikas.  Shocking.

To be honest, the immigrants are usually nicer folks than much of the Crewe folks.  It doesn't stop them getting abuse. And the swastika thing was only aimed at a certain couple of streets, not a town-wide thing!

Is the whole of the UK racist?  No.  But a significant proportion is, the idiots who read the ******* Daily Mail and believe that we're all gonna be three-deep in the Polish community some day soon... and when they fall for that shit, they'll vote UKIP (who, let's face it, the Tories will get into bed with once it's clear that they'll probably lose the next election...) and then we'll be in a world of shit...

I used to believe in a world where people could get along, no matter what.  I don't believe in that anymore.   

[ldopas]

I certainly wouldn't brand all Mail readers racist. Many of them have concerns about numbers, and why shouldn't they. We are an island, I have seen for example the village I live in and have done for a while increase by a half again in the last decade. I see no extra schools, hospitals, roads etc being built. I don't need to be a brain surgeon or a racist to have concerns.

I don't read one paper, I try to read the Guardian, Mail, Express and Independent. As they all peddle their right or left dogmas. The truth I find is always in the middle.

I do go to Crewe now and again, but dont live there. So you are the expert there!

Ive also voted for all 3 main parties and a lot of non main ones in my time. I find people who stick to one party whatever their policies to be dogmatic. No party is completely wrong, but by inference they are also not always right. Fact, England is Tory like it or not, lookee here; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/2432632/UK-General-Election-2010-political-map.html. And you can see when Scotland goes on about not getting the party they voted for, usually no one does!

Its interesting you say; "To be honest, the immigrants are usually nicer folks than much of the Crewe folks." I dont hold to generalities myself (ie all Mail readers are scum, immigrants are nicer than English people"). Just saying, but what would you label me as if I swapped the words Crewe with immigrants in your sentence? 

You say "I used to believe in a world where people could get along, no matter what.  I don't believe in that anymore." But you wrote the sentence "the idiots who read the ******* Daily Mail", that isn't the sort of thing Ghandi would say is it?   

[Master Ray]

Idopas, mate, I think you're twisting my words just a little bit but I also appreciate what you're saying.  Respect, mate.  Also, kudos for bringing Ghandi into this argument...

You get into Crewe sometimes? Let me know when you're next here, I'll buy you a pint!  The Borough Arms is my favourite haunt...   

[Anna Woman von NRW]

Thanks for the posts guys, as you say Ray its an emotive issue and difficult one too.

In terms of numbers Pol, certainly the 1400 seems to be the accepted number of victims - the rest is my quick back of a fag packet calculations, I couldn't stay cold and clinical longer to get any better, I'd do this: 

Firstly Anna, I think you are being far too harsh saying they couldn't give a "flying ****", I think that is totally unfair. I suspect most of them, especially care workers do give a flying **** and do a job most of us would not want to do and could not do.

Fair point and totally agree. My Flying whatsit was directed at the bureaucratic layers of the machine , above and removed from those working in the daily reality of this.

I think I kept my initial post fairly neutral in terms of pointing the finger towards any culture as being the source of the Clientbase but it does seem that there is a racial/cultural element to this horror. At this point that certainly appears to be the case in regard the Business operators at least. Whether or not the Clients themselves share the same racial/cultural background - I don't know.

How this racial/cultural element was handled by the "higher" powers seems to have been cowardice. I won't accept or understand the view I'm about to express but I can almost follow the reasoning (at least if I imagine myself tripping my (soon to be ex) nuts off and talking more bollox than usual I can): In a place with underlying racial/cultural tensions simmering away and extremism waving from the sidelines on both sides  both locally and in the wider world, the implications were serious and big. In order to move on it you better be sure, Because if you're being racist....... So you would need a greater level of proof and evidence than usual. And if every link in the chain needs greater than usual proof then I guess we end up where we are,  The conclusion must be surely, that the fear of being labelled racist froze the system somehow. WTF? How did we reach a point where fear of being nasty to  bunch of people outweighed the despicable acts inflicted on a child. How did we - as a society- become so indulgent, complacent and  stupid that this situation could happen? Don't care who you are or what you are, if you commit evil then we come for you. If that means upsetting people because the Beast (sorry - Business)  happens to be currently living in their communities: Tough ******* Luck.

To push a point though, how do the Clients get away  with it back home? Or (this is an awful thought) does the same racial/cultural background provide the Client too and somehow the whole thing is a warped part of life?

I've not mentioned any particular racial/cultural identity up there. This applies to us all. 7 Billion and counting so I'm told.

Anna
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[Anna Woman von NRW]

For all our words, I think this says everything.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/video/2014/sep/12/samantha-morton-sexually-abused-child-care-homes-video-interview

If you read/watch nothing else, watch that.

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