NMA on Facebook... any recommendations, good or bad?

[Johnz]

Bottom line.
It's best to avoid.  I wish it would be reported to FB and shut down.

Fair enough. But why are you still posting in it? If I don't like a group, I leave and move on.

[Amandistan]

Because I have just as much a right to post  as they do. I will not let a group of people force me out of anywhere.  I dealt with enough bullies in school. Backing down means they win and then they continue with a new victim.
someone needs to stand up to them or they continue.

I don't think the passion behind the songs causes 40 something adults to gang up on one  20 something person.
The passion of the songs suggests kindness. Not becoming an angry mob, personal attacks and ,worst of all, becoming an armchair psychiatrist. Then saying that you hate people with personality disorders after feeling obligated to diagnose them with one.
And guess what the person doesn't even have one so you just insulted people with an actual illness.

It's not a reflection of the NMA following. It's a very small group of people/friends who come to only U.K. gigs. Which is why I much prefer mainland Europe.  Then make rude gestures in real life. You don't grab your **** at someone you don't like after getting drunk. You don't shout at someone for simply walking past. You don't point and laugh at someone you know to be terribly shy. It's not funny, it's mean. Nowhere do the songs suggest to act like that. It's not an excuse. Next time I am harassed after a gig, I go to security. I don't buy a ticket to Wakefield to be treated this way after a gig.

[Johnz]

I am not defending it. I agree that it's bullying. My point was that this is nothing new. In fact it used to be a big issue in the 80s which seems to have all but died down in recent years (obviously with a few exceptions).

New Model Army of the 80s were an entirely different band to what they are now and many people had problems with their following for a number of reasons. It was always more of a problem in the UK than on the continent. Concerts were much more aggressive and you were either part of the in-crowd or you were not. I wasn't and that was fine by me. Remember that they couldn't play Vengeance for some years because it caused to many fights in the audience. All that changed when the band became big with T&C.

In many ways this is what made the band unique and fuelled the passion. But it wasn't always pretty and while that was certainly not the band's intention they still played their part in it. This used to be a common discussion. I guess two things happened; it got better over time and people got sick of discussing it.

I know that a lot of this was a long time ago. The only reason why I am bringing this up is because those that did not experience the band in their early days will not understand were some of this is coming from.

That doesn't mean that I condone any of this out of line behaviour. Far from it. 

Just my opinion for what it's worth.

[Heno]

i deactivated facebook last year. i was active and a member of that group among others. everytime i took a look i didn't stay longer than a couple of posts to read. by then i was reminded why i left so swiftly previously.

and i believe in freedom of speech and freedom of expression. but i also believe that i have the right to walk away if i don't like what you are saying. i also have the right to tell you to go **** yourself if i want to stay where i am and you are bleeding your crap all over me. and i have a right to safety and security so i don't find myself in difficult situations. facebook removes all those rights for profit. and most of the vocal dopes on there don't realise how much money they are making for corporates.

i have thought about this a lot. and i don't mean to offend anyone at all. but there is a particular type of troll on facebook that genuinely sees it as a soapbox, a hyde park corner, to spew their crap on others or bully others. if they have these opinions they why not stick to their own page and see how many read it. they shouldn't be allowed to spew it all over the place. 

i'm not saying my standards should be the ones but sure facebook should hire Mr Vivienne Savage as global moderator and bring peace and calm to difficult situations and explain the meaning of civility, respect and equality in a way that only the hopeless can ignore.

it is a common disgrace that the name of new model army should be subordinated to a global social media commerce platform. and a disgrace that the band, and as importantly the fans, can be misrepresented in such a way. sure, if you want social media distribution of that type then it should be subordinated to the identity and beliefs of the band and leveraged in the interests of the fans. 

being the band, and respecting the will of fans, old and potentially new, then nma simply needs to highlight that its a misrepresentation and carry the fight to the corporate overlords of facebook. and take it back.

now that is the most facebookesque rant i have made in a long time. you can see why i don't go there.....

[c]

I am not, and have never been, a facebook member. I always assumed that if I ever got around to joining it, it's usefulness would have passed. Hence I stuck with here, largely lurking.

But picking up Heno's point; is anyone allowed to set up a page using a band's name? Are the band allowed to ask that group to desist using their name? Or do the band have a particular problem in that they have used a historical name that in effect belongs to no-one and everyone?

[Johnz]

But picking up Heno's point; is anyone allowed to set up a page using a band's name? Are the band allowed to ask that group to desist using their name? Or do the band have a particular problem in that they have used a historical name that in effect belongs to no-one and everyone?

Good question. I don't actually know. I guess it is like the internet where you can buy any domain name.
To my knowledge issues got out of hand more recently but I don't check the page all that much. So until then there might have been no reason to have a problem with the page's name. I'm sure that they would change their name if asked by the band. But I'm probably the wrong person to ask as I am really not very involved in that group.

As for Facebook, I maintain that it is what you want it to be. Like the internet itself. However, like all social media, it enables some people to act out of line whilst hiding behind their keyboards. I still think that it is those people that are the problem and not Facebook.

[Amandistan]

Ok fair enough.
I wasn't around In the early days so would not have known that.i have been told that one group of fans in the 80s stomped a guys head in at a gig.
I find it totally disgusting and uncivilized to do such a thing.

Why did the band attract such people and why be territorial about liking a band?
I am new to following bands. This is the forst band I saw more than 1 or 2 times.
I don't get the hierarchy bushit that some fans believe.

[c]

If you look at the lyrics of some of the early songs they are very angry lyrics, angry at the world, angry at society. They spoke to some people who were similarly angry, but perhaps not in charge of their emotions or their behaviour, particularly when they had a load of beer. late 70s early 80s Britain was a place in quite a lot of turmoil and NMA were not the only band with violent fans (Jesus & Mary Chain to name but one). There was violence at football matches. Just to give a few examples. (and not to condone)

the bands lyrics and the stories they tell have changed over the years. Some of the anger is now sadness (see Modern Times)

Why be territorial about a band? at the risk of sounding like I'm quoting the band to prove a point, look at the lyrics of Family  - "Looking for family, looking for tribe" - Justin says it so succinctly I don't need to say more.

I don't care about any so-called hierarchy; to many eyes I'm not a true fan because I don't follow the band from gig to gig - but I'm comfortable with myself and my like of this band and their music. Whisper it, but not all of my politics is always in synch with all feelings posted on here either - but I don't care. I don't need NMA to tell me my politics - but I find their music inspiring, thought provoking, mind-changing, passionate, emotional. And that's what it is all about IMO

[Amandistan]

Well, these people don't do much for the reputation of the english. Physical violence is never okay no matter what they drink.  I am often angry but listen to angry music to deal with it. I don't hurt someone so there is no reason for anyone to do it.

Dedicated is understandable  but acting like you own a band and it's your territory it stupid. Art belongs to everyone not a few people who follow the band obsessively.  I am guilty of following a lot but I do not think that I own the band or lyrics. I don't have the most supportive family either and connected with the song but would not interpret it as the band being my territory.

[c]

I meant it more as needing somewhere to belong, not as owning the band. And people get tribal, defend their tribe; it's easy when you're part of a crowd because you can lose a sense of personal responsibility, and you feel part of something.

Does it make right? No way.

[lotus]

I`m not a member of FB or twitter and try my very best no to be forced to register using that kind of social media to find the informations I want or to stay in contact with other people

So I know nothing about that first shitstorm at the end of 2013 or the one now

I try not to feed trolls and to ignore personal troll postings (perhaps troll is a very kind word for that kind of nasty posters are mentioned here)

and Viv is doing fine that administration job here

[Amandistan]

That's the whole problem there. The admins delete spam but don't lead or tell people to be nice. The old admin Gothwin started to do it and it was great. Then they played the free speech card. He set up nice rules but left. I don't blame him.


Wanting to be part of something is natural but can also can mean being cruel to someone who they view as an outsiders. Like gangs or some evil philosophy.
I don't interpret the song as meaning pack-dog mentality but I guess some do.
I am excluded from almost every tribe so don't know the feeling of inclusion too well. I know the outsider feeling though. It's not a gang though. It's people who like the same band.

I am learning that it doesn't mean too much. It doesn't mean a person is nice or that you want to spend time with them. It's foolish to think that too and I was naive enough to think that once.

I have met some really good friends and very kind people through liking this band. However being an NMA fan doesn't automatically mean you are nice.

 

[lotus]

Whatever they want from you - you don't have to give
Whatever they say to you - you don't have to give

[Anna Woman von NRW]

Well, this really is a a bit of a meandering thread...................

I'm not defending/attacking anyone but is it a good idea to be discussing a particular group and using names in this way? Poking a dog with a stick comes to mind.

I would suggest that there are good & bad groups of folk across all social media and across all sorts of interests. Humans form groups as a natural tendency and seeing as humanity is such a varied thing then it seems blindingly obvious that so such groups will vary. I suspect that any number of bands/artists/sporting clubs/hobby groups etc etc find themselves with similar issues. And I'm sure that it occurs amongst all nationalities not just the English.

Like minded people come together in real life so they will in social media. Is there a place in the world where people don't form groups? So Master Ray - I imagine over in the other place  you are likely to find a bit of a mixed bag   

Must admit I'm a bit perplexed as to why anyone would think that because they happen to share a musical interest with someone they would imagine a broader connection. It's just a bunch of guys banging out some tunes, not a manual for life.

I must declare that I'm a bit of a Jon Snow because other than here I don't do social media at all 

[Rusco]

Depending on old fans, aggression in eighties etc. the bands cannot choose their fans in a long term. It would be ridiculous to think what would had JS & co do if they'd see someone kicking someone's head. Although it's not unreal to happen in this crazy world, but I'm quite sure at least they would ask them to stop it of course.