Oskar Groening

[Darkness]

Anyone seen the film Good? An interesting film about a supposedly good man who gets seduced by Nazism.

[Shush]

Not seen that one, but what you say kind of reminds me of the film, Apt Pupil  --

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118636/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_29

[Heno]

lets explore punishment. should it fit the crime?

not talking eye for an eye or anything

when genocide and ethnic cleansing are involved then one death is as bad as a 1000. its the motive that should dictate penalty.

i don't know enough about post war consequences for nazi foot soldiers and administrators. did everyone in germany get a 4 year jail sentence when the war ended?

[Shush]

The German people did well and truly suffer after WW2. Facts and figures are very varied, largely because so little true information has come out of Russia in post-war years, but  around 11 millions Germans died after WW2 as a result of WW2. Stalin, the most evil man in history wanted his pound of flash out of Eastern Germany. Countless thousands of Germans disappeared after the war to the Russian Gulags never to be seen again. Almost every wartime German soldier, policeman, official of any kind was interrogated and then dealt with as the N.K.V.D. saw fit. Millions dying of starvation on the selection of who will and who did march west as Stalin heaved Poland westwards. Starvation in Eastern Germany in the immediate aftermath of the war.  Thousands of rapes, false imprisonments, on the spot exactions.
  The German army captured by the Western allies held in camps till the late 40's also suffered and died in large quantities. Millions of German soldiers still in captivity in the USSR never to return home.  With all this, all the major cities in ruins by allied bombing, I think it is one of the most miraculous aspects of the 20th century that Germany emerged as economic power house it is today.
  I am English but with Polish heritage. In terms of history, I am Polish. I have studied Polish history as a hobby of mine sine the 80's. Back in the 80's when I was in contact with exiled Polish ex-servicemen in the U.K I was very anti-German and believed the country should not have been allowed to exist in post-war years. . There was Poland which suffered more than any other nation during the war at the hands of the Russians and the Germans  still basically an occupied country sold out by the West to the Russians while at the same time West Germany was a free and wealthy country.

   Since then I have come to realise several things. Germany also suffered greatly during and after the war. No country is without blame or without a history of wrong doing. I have met many Germans in recent years, visited the country a few times and I like the Germans a lot. To me at least they are a very moral and honest people. Are we going to ram WW2 down their throats for ever ? Most Germans alive today were born post-45. "They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind" well I think they have reaped it enough now. Uncle Joe , the RAF and USAAF made sure of that. "I believe in vengeance" , I do to, but for the right people, the guilty individuals. Nations are made of peoples, and most people just want the basics of life.

[Heno]

the world is truly a terrible place. beyond imagination

i've read some pieces on the events of the days when the US sat by and permitted the russias 3 or 4 days of whatever they wanted in germany. some estimates at 250000, some as high a 750000 chiildren born as a consequence of russian soldiers raping their mothers.

the controls to stop this happening again are getting better but there are many psychopaths out there just dying to get into power and get off on power

[Anna Woman von NRW]

It's not about nationalities. It's about individual responsibility.

This thread was not about other horrific events. It asked about involvement in a specific occurrence.

[Shush]

Groening was not acting as an individual. He was part in a massive regime. Groening and his part in the holocaust has to be viewed in context to the whole event.

[Heno]

if

at any one moment

during this blokes participation in these atrocities

and that does not imply him being complicit

if he ever thought life is good and i like the benefits of being part of this

then he should spend the rest of his days being denied of his basic human rights

not sure how we can judge this though. since very few of his contemporaries from either side are still with us

and that raises an other issue

probably captured by "you weren't there"

we can all with our intelligence

seek to think what it was like. but if you weren't there then you are the same as all other commentators

 ignorant of the facts and the emotions and the memory of basic human instincts that are chemically burned in our brains

[Anna Woman von NRW]

probably captured by "you weren't there"

Probably right, 'cos none of us were.