Calais higher wall as our bastard children come home

[Pol]

Just wanted to get others opinion on the Calais immigration issue. I'm probably a bit too far away to feel the full impact whilst other members are probably struggling to get to work etc.
Anyway what's the answer if there is one, I'm sure the more intelligent than me (everyone lol) should have a view point

[Anna Woman von NRW]

Oof ! There's a question to start the weekend, especially on a payday................ 

I'll try to do my usual gobby bit before too many beers get drunk!

I don't think there is one single answer out there to resolve this. But if there is a route to a solution then I think we have to start looking seriously and honestly at the reasons why HUMAN BEINGS are prepared to risk everything to cross thousands of miles, put themselves in the hands of criminal gangs, face hardships and physical dangers that we in the West can barely comprehend to try and win the equivalent of the Euromillions jackpot. I don't see how a solution can be found unless that is addressed. If someone is that desperate they are prepared to risk it? ............................ Ask yourself, what would you do?

Fences, dogs, Army on the streets blah blah blah ............... really, how does that prevent someone coming? Are these are real answers or are they just sops to the "Twittersphere", to look like an Action Man? If someone is prepared to risk all hiding on a train mere meters away from 25,000V overhead power lines will a bigger fence truly make a difference?

This isn't softy, drippy left wing liberal nonsense. I'm not saying just open the gates and let anyone in. I'm saying that I think the answer lies in dealing with the reasons that make people move. I live in Kent and have seen the impact that Legal migration has had on communities and I'm sure others will have too. I don't pretend that there aren't real issues.

I'd also encourage folk to question what they are shown by the media, look beyond the headlines, soundbites and posturing - dig a bit deeper and in the words of the best non-Bradford band in the world "If we could just take a step back, a different picture we might see. Perhaps the man in the gutter is not so different from you?"

Anyway, I'll put me soapbox away now. I'm off to get pissed and indulge in a bit of Western angst cos work sucks 

[Master Ray]

Was thinking about posting a new thread but you guys got there first...

Most of these people are utterly desperate, running from horrors that the likes of us can't even imagine.  Many of them are paying money that they can't afford (and many of them dying along the way) on the promise that Europe / England is the 'promised land'.  Who can blame them for putting their lives at risk for something better?

And yet... the tiny country that is the UK can't take of everyone from all around the world.  Sorry.

Europe is a huge continent. We're all supposed to be part of a union. So why are these poor, desperate people just being shoved from one place to another until they're prepared to die in a fuckin' tunnel when there could be a contingency plan that SOMEONE in the big bloody EU must have seen coming?  You know, allow so many people into so many countries, take care of them, etc?  I'm no genius but did NOBODY see this shit coming?   

(Also, David Cnuteron calling them a 'swarm'... that's just nasty... keep playing to the Daily Mail readers, you fuckin' prick    )

It's a horrible scenario all around.   

[Pol]

Don't expect to drive to the off licence Anna the roads are all grid locked down way I've heard
Yes your points and all totally correct, we can build all the fences send police and army it will never never get to the root of the problem and who can blame people for wanting a better life. If we were born in any of countries involved we would be the ones with the wire cutters , who wouldn't want to come to country where if you make to the house of lords you can get £300 a day for just walking a few hundred yards on top of wages and paid for house.
I don't know the answer, someone suggested that maybe we could invest in Libya and create more opportunities there

[Anna Woman von NRW]

invest in Libya and create more opportunities there

I thought I was the one indulging in too many beers............... better dividends from arms sales 

Shite - I said I was putting my soapbox away didn't I 

[Shush]

Investment in all of Africa would help, not just Libya. I  feel sure if the desperate people in Calais had the opportunities locally that they think they will find here, they would surely stay. So much investment there from China, why not the West ??
  I suppose if there is going to be rich, there has to be poor.

[Heno]

libya was a terrible place for such a long time under the colonel. see his kid has been sentenced to death.

at the same time a massive amount of its resources were invested in reforestation, education, health....and even equality.

now profits are repatriated to a corporations coffers.

i'd like to know what you all think motivated the attempt?

1: profiteering of human traffickers?
3: desire to live off someone else's labour?
4: fear?
7: ambition?

 

[Bunny]

Im a bit intrigued,if we're all under an EU banner, as to why people who made it to Europe see the UK as the final destination, when our powers that be are doing their best to refuse entry and in effect leave the problem in France. Buggered if I can get my head around that. We have no money to cope with an influx, let alone our own, so who is selling the idea its a land of plenty. Yes I get that for many its better than where theyve come from, and if there are genuine cases of asylum there are channels to go through but the people just seem to live in a non existance with no real answer to it. Buggered if I can see a way through it.

Im not entirely sure Western corporations can be held soley to account because if they withdraw investment, then its still the same for the poor. Id suggest its corrupt governments keeping money from filtering down, which I cant see a way to stop either if thats the ethos.

[Pol]

Most of the countries they have came from are ex British colonies and they speak English that's why the bastard children Is the uk seen as a 'soft touch ' , I'm not sure exactly what we are doing differently than people want to come here other than Germany etc

[jackroadkill]

Oof ! There's a question to start the weekend, especially on a payday................ 

I'll try to do my usual gobby bit before too many beers get drunk!

I don't think there is one single answer out there to resolve this. But if there is a route to a solution then I think we have to start looking seriously and honestly at the reasons why HUMAN BEINGS are prepared to risk everything to cross thousands of miles, put themselves in the hands of criminal gangs, face hardships and physical dangers that we in the West can barely comprehend to try and win the equivalent of the Euromillions jackpot. I don't see how a solution can be found unless that is addressed. If someone is that desperate they are prepared to risk it? ............................ Ask yourself, what would you do?

Fences, dogs, Army on the streets blah blah blah ............... really, how does that prevent someone coming? Are these are real answers or are they just sops to the "Twittersphere", to look like an Action Man? If someone is prepared to risk all hiding on a train mere meters away from 25,000V overhead power lines will a bigger fence truly make a difference?

This isn't softy, drippy left wing liberal nonsense. I'm not saying just open the gates and let anyone in. I'm saying that I think the answer lies in dealing with the reasons that make people move. I live in Kent and have seen the impact that Legal migration has had on communities and I'm sure others will have too. I don't pretend that there aren't real issues.

I'd also encourage folk to question what they are shown by the media, look beyond the headlines, soundbites and posturing - dig a bit deeper and in the words of the best non-Bradford band in the world "If we could just take a step back, a different picture we might see. Perhaps the man in the gutter is not so different from you?"

Anyway, I'll put me soapbox away now. I'm off to get pissed and indulge in a bit of Western angst cos work sucks 

Spot on, Anna.  What gets forgotten is that these are people.

[ldopas]

Im a bit intrigued,if we're all under an EU banner, as to why people who made it to Europe see the UK as the final destination, when our powers that be are doing their best to refuse entry and in effect leave the problem in France. Buggered if I can get my head around that. We have no money to cope with an influx, let alone our own, so who is selling the idea its a land of plenty.

I broadly agree with most of the posts here. However I quoted this above because it asks a couple of questions.

Firstly you ask why migrants see the UK as last port of call, well I expect not all do, but those that do there is an elephant in the room that being a bit left of centre as a board no one has mentioned (except to have a dig at the Lords which I agree with). And that is we do have a working economy like it or not, we do not have genocide, we do have a welfare system and we do have a free NHS at the point of need. Most countries certainly do not have these, so for all our moaning at our lives we do need to remember this. 

I've travelled a lot, mainly for work, and I can say that the view that we have generous benefits or indeed benefits at all is something others DO view about us. Now before Master R accuses me of being Richard Littlejohn, I am not for one moment saying migrants do not come here and work, because most do.

Don't take my word for it though about how we are seen, let the Mayor of Calais, Natacha Bouchart say it. She said "Britain was an ‘El Dorado’ for thousands of migrants flocking to Calais because of generous state handouts. They want to go to England because they can expect better conditions on arrival there than anywhere else in Europe or even internationally."

As for why people come here there must be a thousand reasons; to find work, to build a better life, to make use of the welfare, to free persecution....who knows. While I love the influx of influences into this country, we do have finite space. And I also get fed up of reading right wing papers going on about migrants coming to live off welfare, and left wing papers accusing anyone with an opinion as racist.

And in answer to the second question in the quote, we do indeed have money in this country, we are one of the wealthiest on the planet.

[Amandistan]

The UK should let more people in and stop hating the idea of immigration. 
The UK borders are ridiculous even for non EU visitors.  You are going to question someone for thirty minutes just for wishing to visit for a week and a half.   Then ask about my personal life.  The common travel zone does not  do this shit but UK immigration has a stick up it's arse.

Britain has at some point ruled half the world yet they can not let people of past-occupied nations in? 
 

[ldopas]

The UK should let more people in and stop hating the idea of immigration. 
The UK borders are ridiculous even for non EU visitors.  You are going to question someone for thirty minutes just for wishing to visit for a week and a half.   Then ask about my personal life.  The common travel zone does not  do this shit but UK immigration has a stick up it's arse.

Britain has at some point ruled half the world yet they can not let people of past-occupied nations in? 
 

God where to start with this.

Firstly the UK does not "hate" the idea of immigration. We do take immigrants.

Why pick on the UK, which actually treats immigrants fairly well compared to your country and most others around the globe.

Secondly, do you not think a country has a right and a duty to control its borders? How many people do you think should be allowed to settle in the UK, or indeed any country with a finite land boundary?

Why do we (oh and any country around the globe by the way) question people when they want to come in. Ever heard of terrorists? Why do they question you? Erm because you are an American, not an EU member.

I get quite perturbed when people post stuff about us as if we are damn N Korea when there are a hundred countries out there worse than us. No we are not perfect, but we are by far not the worst. If you don't think so try smuggling some drugs into the UK, then try it in Singapore.

[Pol]

I'm very liberal socialistic person. I would love to say yes let people come here and yes immigrants pay in more than they take out currently. Sadly there isn't enough housing, schools hospitals etc etc if everyone was allowed in and maybe we need to get stricter with benefits and the nhs.
Yes I agree that in the past we enslaved these people ancestors and raped there countries for natural resources, should we have pay for the crimes of our forefathers  ?

[ldopas]

Yes I agree that in the past we enslaved these people ancestors and raped there countries for natural resources, should we have pay for the crimes of our forefathers  ?

Completely agree with the latter part of this sentence. But the first part? Did we enslave and rape every country? I think not. Also tell me one country who does not have blood on its hands in its history? Because there really is not one. Time to stop beating ourselves up.