Author Topic: Paris  (Read 4482 times)

Amandistan

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Re: Paris
« Reply #60 on: November 18, 2015, 02:13:19 PM »
I am wrong. I read a news article last night that said it was found. then it's been updated that it is not.
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Stephanie

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Re: Paris
« Reply #61 on: November 18, 2015, 02:29:15 PM »
I am wrong. I read a news article last night that said it was found. then it's been updated that it is not.
Just to make that clear: I didn't mean to attack you or anything, I hope you didn't take offense.  :)
It's just that there have indeed been so many rumours, not only with regard to that match last night, and as the situation is already consfusing and scary enough as it is I wanted to share the latest news from - that is at least a bit positive.

cthulhu

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Re: Paris
« Reply #62 on: November 18, 2015, 02:45:41 PM »
If you want to discuss what has happened in france, you should approach it in a criminalistic way. Gathering, researching facts, finding out what has happened. Don't rush to conclusions before you have proof. Question the sources of information, which agenda do they have, have they an agenda. Question things!
To me it is not clear what happened in france. There are different versions of the story, the story is changing and the mainstream narrative is changing constantly. the told story has some logic holes, which i cannot just let be.

i want to tell you, what i make with this incident, how i think about it.
first there's a pattern which connects it to other world(opinion)changing events in the past.
did you know, that there were simulated terror plangames, maneuvers going on on 9/11? including captured airplanes?
did you know there were some terror drills taking place in london on 7/7 2005, including attacks on the tube?
and while the boston bombings also?
so, there was a emergency drill in paris, SAMU Service d’Aide Médicale Urgente, staged taking place in several locations.
damn, those coincidences.

then we have a pettern of finding passports of terrorist, very fast after the incident, so we all know who did it. if it is in the rubble of the twin towers, or next to a disemmebered terrorost in paris, showing he was from syria. very covenient i must say.

we have a pattern of terrorists being surveilled before the incidents or have connections to the secret services. we haver a pattern of police work which just not works.
as i understand it, the paris shootings took also place near to the street of the attack and massacre in january this year. then they take hostages inside a building and start killing people, but it takes 3 hours for the police to react?
the bombings of the suicide killers took only their lives. too stupid to kill?

were ther six or sven or eight or nine people involved? in belgium they stopped a guy who was on the searching list but let him go?

well, these are the questions which go through my mind and to me it seems like another false flag operation of secret services to put fear on all of us and bring us new wars and frightening security laws. and democracy to the barbarians.
false flag? a conspiracy theory? far fetched?

from a list of confirmed false flag attacks:

(1) Japanese troops set off a small explosion on a train track in 1931, and falsely blamed it on China in order to justify an invasion of Manchuria. This is known as the "Mukden Incident" or the "Manchurian Incident". The Tokyo International Military Tribunal found: "Several of the participators in the plan, including Hashimoto [a high-ranking Japanese army officer], have on various occasions admitted their part in the plot and have stated that the object of the 'Incident' was to afford an excuse for the occupation of Manchuria by the Kwantung Army ...." And see this.

(2) A major with the Nazi SS admitted at the Nuremberg trials that - under orders from the chief of the Gestapo - he and some other Nazi operatives faked attacks on their own people and resources which they blamed on the Poles, to justify the invasion of Poland.

(6) The British government admits that - between 1946 and 1948 - it bombed 5 ships carrying Jews attempting to flee the Holocaust to seek safety in Palestine, set up a fake group called "Defenders of Arab Palestine", and then had the psuedo-group falsely claim responsibility for the bombings (and see this, this and this).

( 8 ) The CIA admits that it hired Iranians in the 1950's to pose as Communists and stage bombings in Iran in order to turn the country against its democratically-elected prime minister.

(11) The former Italian Prime Minister, an Italian judge, and the former head of Italian counterintelligence admit that NATO, with the help of the Pentagon and CIA, carried out terror bombings in Italy and other European countries in the 1950s and blamed the communists, in order to rally people's support for their governments in Europe in their fight against communism. As one participant in this formerly-secret program stated: "You had to attack civilians, people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple. They were supposed to force these people, the Italian public, to turn to the state to ask for greater security" (and see this) (Italy and other European countries subject to the terror campaign had joined NATO before the bombings occurred). And watch this BBC special. They also allegedly carried out terror attacks in France, Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Greece, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, the UK, and other countries

(14) As admitted by the U.S. government, recently declassified documents show that in 1962, the American Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on a plan to blow up AMERICAN airplanes (using an elaborate plan involving the switching of airplanes), and also to commit terrorist acts on American soil, and then to blame it on the Cubans in order to justify an invasion of Cuba. See the following ABC news report; the official documents; and watch this interview with the former Washington Investigative Producer for ABC's World News Tonight with Peter Jennings.

(17) The NSA admits that it lied about what really happened in the Gulf of Tonkin incident in 1964 ... manipulating data to make it look like North Vietnamese boats fired on a U.S. ship so as to create a false justification for the Vietnam war.

(21) The German government admitted (and see this) that, in 1978, the German secret service detonated a bomb in the outer wall of a prison and planted "escape tools" on a prisoner - a member of the Red Army Faction - which the secret service wished to frame the bombing on.

(25) The United States Army's 1994 publication Special Forces Foreign Internal Defense Tactics Techniques and Procedures for Special Forces - updated in 2004 - recommends employing terrorists and using false flag operations to destabilize leftist regimes in Latin America. False flag terrorist attacks were carried out in Latin America and other regions as part of the CIA's "Dirty Wars". And see this.

(28) Senior Russian Senior military and intelligence officers admit that the KGB blew up Russian apartment buildings in 1999 and falsely blamed it on Chechens, in order to justify an invasion of Chechnya (and see this report and this discussion).

(30)  At the July 2001 G8 Summit in Genoa, Italy, black-clad thugs were videotaped getting out of police cars, and were seen by an Italian MP carrying "iron bars inside the police station".  Subsequently, senior police officials in Genoa subsequently  admitted that police planted two Molotov cocktails and faked the stabbing of a police officer at the G8 Summit, in order to justify a violent crackdown against protesters.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/42falseflags.php

(yeah, i know some reactions now. but don't blame the source which i linked here. you can research those historical events for yourself.)


    "Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death".
    - Adolph Hitler

   
"Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    - Hermann Goering, Nazi leader.


   
"The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out acts of terror. [The public] will clamor for such laws if their personal security is threatened".
    - Josef Stalin


it think this comes the closest to what terrible thing has happened. and we should beware calling for action. military action.

i also think its very important for many people to start researching these unbelivable and frightening thoughts, to see for themselves and be prepared for more war mongering propaganda and psy-ops(google it)

we're being played.

fear is the only enemy, that i still know....





 
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Amandistan

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Re: Paris
« Reply #63 on: November 18, 2015, 04:22:43 PM »
I have recently read that Turkey warned France about on the the attackers but they never responded to them.
Al Jazeera was the source. They were warned twice this year. If it's so why would the PM not respond to them. This man was one of the attackers. 

@Stephanie   Thank you. I was not offended. :)
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BlackCountryMaggiD

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Re: Paris
« Reply #64 on: November 18, 2015, 04:30:46 PM »
I have recently read that Turkey warned France about on the the attackers but they never responded to them.
Al Jazeera was the source. They were warned twice this year. If it's so why would the PM not respond to them. This man was one of the attackers. 

@Stephanie   Thank you. I was not offended. :)
What was the warning about?
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Valstar

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Re: Paris
« Reply #65 on: November 18, 2015, 04:48:20 PM »

so, there was a emergency drill in paris, SAMU Service d’Aide Médicale Urgente, staged taking place in several locations.
damn, those coincidences.

then we have a pettern of finding passports of terrorist, very fast after the incident, so we all know who did it. if it is in the rubble of the twin towers, or next to a disemmebered terrorost in paris, showing he was from syria. very covenient i must say.


as i understand it, the paris shootings took also place near to the street of the attack and massacre in january this year. then they take hostages inside a building and start killing people, but it takes 3 hours for the police to react?

the bombings of the suicide killers took only their lives. too stupid to kill?

were ther six or sven or eight or nine people involved? in belgium they stopped a guy who was on the searching list but let him go?

There's MANY point I would discuss in your post but that will be too long, so I want to answer to those specifics.

There was no emergency drill in Paris, from what I've heard from a nurse close friend, they were really surprised and overwhelmed. Can you give your source about this ?

the passport found was at the same time said to be a false one and that it was not a good lead, they give the name photo on every TV since yesterday to ask if someone knew him.

Police didn't took 3 hours to come there, that's completely false. One of the terrorist was shot less  than 20 minutes after the attack began in the entrance of the venue. Then, yes, it takes time to organize an assault on a place were there's hundreds of hostages.

Bombers didn't take a lot of lives but still there was, and lots of wounded too. 3 of them exploded during the gunfight with the cops.

They stopped one NEAR Belgium, weren't at all looking for him at the moment, it was just a normal road control. They knew they were looking for this particular guy hours later.

When you say such things, please cite your sources. You can find any of the informations I gave on the website of Le Monde, the most serious french newspaper.

I have recently read that Turkey warned France about on the the attackers but they never responded to them.
Al Jazeera was the source. They were warned twice this year. If it's so why would the PM not respond to them. This man was one of the attackers.

Can you please, too, give us your sources about that ? thanks !
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Amandistan

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Re: Paris
« Reply #66 on: November 18, 2015, 04:57:06 PM »
I have recently read that Turkey warned France about on the the attackers but they never responded to them.
Al Jazeera was the source. They were warned twice this year. If it's so why would the PM not respond to them. This man was one of the attackers. 

@Stephanie   Thank you. I was not offended. :)
What was the warning about?

The attacker. "Ismaël Omar Mostefaï, a 29-year-old French citizen" "During the official investigation, the Turkish authorities identified a fifth individual, Omar Ismail Mostefai, and notified their French counterparts twice -- in December 2014 and June 2015,"     "Turkey shared information on Mostefaï with France, but didn't hear anything back -- until after Friday's events."
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cthulhu

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Re: Paris
« Reply #67 on: November 18, 2015, 05:19:44 PM »
as i tried to point out, to me it's not clearly clear what has happened, due to changing mainstream narrativ.
but your question about the sources is a good one.

let's be clear, that all of this just keeps me questioning and i don't want to rush to conclusions.
so this one is about the SAMU:
http://www.challenges.fr/france/20151115.CHA1650/comment-le-samu-s-est-prepare-aux-attentats-simultanes-de-paris.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EHhSw_hwgs

i know that the "found passport news" has now changed to: it must have been a planted one. maybe someone thought, this game is too obvious.
i mean, shouldn't we ask questions about who could and would plant a false passport at a crime scene? who has access? this seems suspicious to me. that was the reason i mentioned it.

as i said, the narrative is changing.

about the late arriving or action of the police i only have ne german source now:

http://www.abendblatt.de/politik/article206575925/Ueberall-war-Blut-ueberall-waren-Leichen.html
in the articel is a quote of an witness: "only after more than two hours the police ended the hostage situation."

here we also have a problem in the narrative. you have to say that it is a hostage situation, to explain the police behaviour of talking to the hostagekeepers and not interferring. if you have massmurder and a shooting, which seems to have taken place, the police has to act. you cannot have mass killings going on over a period of two hours, no one would have understanding for the police.

another article in german says, that "shortly after" the shootings happened, the police arrived.

i'm aware that there are different versions of the story out there. that was one thing i wanted to point out.
this for me are examples of a narrative building during chaotic moments shortly after such incidents. the wording has to be equaled for the narrative to fit.

about the bombers
in this german article by "der spiegel" it says:

two bombers just died because of explosive vests, and the third took one person with him. some experts just wonder how irrational the terrorist acted, for example in front of the football stadium, where they could have killed many people and that all behaviour seems illogical
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/terror-in-frankreich-das-wunder-vom-stade-de-france-a-1063255.html

this quote you won't here again, i bet. sometimes something slips through.

as i said, these different reports raise questions for me, they do not answer things.







« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 05:22:48 PM by cthulhu »
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Valstar

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Re: Paris
« Reply #68 on: November 18, 2015, 06:29:11 PM »

let's be clear, that all of this just keeps me questioning and i don't want to rush to conclusions.
so this one is about the SAMU:
http://www.challenges.fr/france/20151115.CHA1650/comment-le-samu-s-est-prepare-aux-attentats-simultanes-de-paris.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EHhSw_hwgs

i know that the "found passport news" has now changed to: it must have been a planted one. maybe someone thought, this game is too obvious.
i mean, shouldn't we ask questions about who could and would plant a false passport at a crime scene? who has access? this seems suspicious to me. that was the reason i mentioned it.

as i said, the narrative is changing.

about the late arriving or action of the police i only have ne german source now:

http://www.abendblatt.de/politik/article206575925/Ueberall-war-Blut-ueberall-waren-Leichen.html
in the articel is a quote of an witness: "only after more than two hours the police ended the hostage situation."

here we also have a problem in the narrative. you have to say that it is a hostage situation, to explain the police behaviour of talking to the hostagekeepers and not interferring. if you have massmurder and a shooting, which seems to have taken place, the police has to act. you cannot have mass killings going on over a period of two hours, no one would have understanding for the police.

another article in german says, that "shortly after" the shootings happened, the police arrived.

i'm aware that there are different versions of the story out there. that was one thing i wanted to point out.
this for me are examples of a narrative building during chaotic moments shortly after such incidents. the wording has to be equaled for the narrative to fit.

about the bombers
in this german article by "der spiegel" it says:

two bombers just died because of explosive vests, and the third took one person with him. some experts just wonder how irrational the terrorist acted, for example in front of the football stadium, where they could have killed many people and that all behaviour seems illogical
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/terror-in-frankreich-das-wunder-vom-stade-de-france-a-1063255.html

this quote you won't here again, i bet. sometimes something slips through.

as i said, these different reports raise questions for me, they do not answer things.

For the SAMU training, it was hours before the attack, and was long time planned due to the coming of almost all world leaders to a summit in a few weeks in Paris (that's what's explained in the article you mention).

The passport never changed. First time I've heard of it, during Friday night, news said "probably a false passport", again, on Le Monde website and on TV, they were already saying it was supposed to be forgery. Now we know the terrorist used it in Greece a few weeks ago with refugees to enter Europe.

It took more than two hours to end the situation in the Bataclan, true, as I said, you don't just rush were hundreds of hostage are held, but the police secured the neighbourhood just a few minutes after the attack started, killing a terrorist already while doing that. Your witness is just saying that, it took two hours to END the situation, not to arrive on the situation.
Again, when there's a hostage situation you try to discuss with the guys with the guns, and usually, that takes countless hours. There, police tried to contact them, terrorist basically said "we're going to kill everybody" so the police came in and that was it. 2 hours seems a decent time to plan such an attack, you don't just rush in, that would add multiple police death on the already huge casualties. The two articles you mention just say the same thing, they're not contradictory at all.

Narrative isn't changing, some "journalist" say stuff before they verify it, but mostly, the story was always the same on every major newspaper, except perhaps on a few details (it was effectively believed they were 7 attackers, now they say "probably 9", the probably part telling us that they don't really know.

And yes, the ones at the stadium had a strange behaviour that still need explanations, none was given at the time so no narrative problem here for the moment :)

I'm sorry but really, there's no conspiracy theory going on about this, you're taking parts of different stuff to mix them into something that is not at all what happened.

[edit] police rushing into Bataclan without preparation would also probably have been retaliate on hostages. You need to know how many terrorists, where, how many hostages a.s.o.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 06:33:18 PM by Valstar Superstar »
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Rusco

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Re: Paris
« Reply #69 on: November 18, 2015, 06:56:07 PM »
I wonder what he did with a passport on the day? Why to carry it with you anymore... Or if he left it visible intentionally as he probably knew the consequences.

Oh, what a huge mess the world has now. Heavily armed soldiers whose main target are helpless civilians not enemy soldiers.  :(
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Valstar

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Re: Paris
« Reply #72 on: November 20, 2015, 06:14:07 AM »
Here's a very interesting account from the cops point of view, but in french http://abonnes.lemonde.fr/attaques-a-paris/article/2015/11/20/l-assaut-au-bataclan-dans-les-yeux-des-forces-de-l-ordre_4813868_4809495.html

It explains everything, and you'll know almost minute by minute what happened (and yes you'll understand how those things work and why 2 hours is not that much, why they didn't just charge a.s.o. This is clear and don't leave room for conspiracies theory. Try google translation if you don't speak french (but at your own risks ;)).

And yes, the ex-hostage opinion is really interesting Marius !
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Amandistan

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Re: Paris
« Reply #73 on: November 20, 2015, 10:18:09 AM »
Now (as we speak)  IS are taking hostages in hotel in Mali. They won't ******* stop. They are forcing us to all fear for our lives. Well Done IS pricks you have now made all cities, public transport, hotels, cafes, bars, venues everywhere unsafe.   

Do people still think they should not be blown off the face of the earth?
They have ruined the world for everyone.
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BlackCountryMaggiD

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Re: Paris
« Reply #74 on: November 20, 2015, 10:47:21 AM »
Now (as we speak)  IS are taking hostages in hotel in Mali. They won't ******* stop. They are forcing us to all fear for our lives. Well Done IS pricks you have now made all cities, public transport, hotels, cafes, bars, venues everywhere unsafe.   

Do people still think they should not be blown off the face of the earth?
They have ruined the world for everyone.

How do you know it's IS in Mali?

Whose binkin shout is it?