Author Topic: EU Referendum  (Read 18204 times)

Pumpkin

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #165 on: June 16, 2016, 09:45:03 AM »
The failure of the banks is legendary and legislation was always in place to bail their sorry arse out if they went bankrupt. When we questioned this policy, we were told there was no other option.

you didn't fuking question anything, in fact you were the one defending the banks on here when everyone was quite rightly outraged and their behaviour and telling US (in your usual pompous style) that there was other option; and there's plenty of people who were here at the time who can vouch for that. Of course though, you then kept a low profile for long enough for the habitual users of this board to change and now can come back and pretend you're a whole different person. You did the same a few months ago with your call to back Assad as the lesser of two evils (which I agree with, incidentally) and denouncing the failings of the campaigns in Iraq and Libya when in the past you were one of the staunchiest supporters of the war in Iraq and toppling Saddam.

I see many good points in leaving the EU, but what I can't stand is right wing cunts, all the way from boris johnson to you pretending they aren't to suit their needs and drag people to their side.

To address your concerns, I didn't defend the banks on a bailout. I defended them on their own decision to operate as they saw fit. There is a fundamental difference.

I believe banks are free to operate (still do), but they are also free to fail (always have). In doing so, should there be protection from bankruptcy? Well, seemingly, yes and that includes a bailout, EU legislation guaranteed just that. However, if you want to operate in a 'fully free market environment', then you have to accept the consequences - including liquidation. Banks are no exception. If banks want to exploit low interest rates and loan money on easy conditions, they have to be prepared to take all the consequences. I argued, and still do, that the banks had the right to lend in the way they did, providing they were prepared. There is a difference: you have to have the reserves. It's a high risk business and you accept the condition of failure without running to the government for a handout. As for borrowers, there must also be the realisation that they are responsible for their own decisions. I'm not sure what part of all this you didn't/don't understand.

I still stand by the removal of Saddam. What I don't agree with is the conduct thereafter. What I don't agree with is the loss of control and direction in Iraq, because no corresponding strong authority was put in place. What I don't agree with is the half-arsed attempt to 'move forward' without proper infrastructure in place. You need to finish what you start. Again, there is a fundamental difference.

The lack of long-term vision and planning is the problem - not Saddam's removal. However, the real regional threat, as I have stated many times on this board, is actually Saudi Arabia  - supposedly our ally. Democracy is a better idea than dictatorship. Yes. However, a secular dictatorship is preferable to an Islamic 'dictatorship' or 'caliphate'. As for Assad, I'd take him over Saddam or Gaddafi. He was never in the same league. Perhaps what you misunderstand is my criticism for lack of constructive, long-term Western foreign policy over criticism of its basic decisions. Syria will end up in the shite if there is no long-term plan in operation, and there clearly isn't. Best to keep Assad than have the place fall to ISIS.

You can continue to misrepresent what people whom you don't like say and stoop to your amusing, predictable behaviour of name-calling, or you can choose to engage in proper discussion like many others on this board do.

You did much the same thing with ldopas' previous post in this very thread, but, as usual, failed to respond to his comments on the matter.

Danny

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #166 on: June 16, 2016, 10:26:48 AM »
I don't engage with trolls and do my debating in real life, with people who stand before me rather than hiding behind Internet handles. If other people want to do that here that's their prerogative, I just thought I'd warn them as to who they are dealing with, seeing as the turnover on this board is pretty high (something you've used to your advantage, conveniently disappearing for long enough periods of time when too many people see you for what you are) and most of them have no idea what people like you said and did in the past. What they then choose to do is not for me to decide or comment on.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 10:53:55 AM by Danny »

Pumpkin

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #167 on: June 16, 2016, 11:04:36 AM »
I don't engage with trolls and do my debating in real life, with people who stand before me rather than hiding behind Internet handles. If other people want to do that here that's their prerogative, I just thought I'd warn them as to who they are dealing with, seeing as the turnover on this board is pretty high (something you've used to your advantage, conveniently disappearing for long enough periods of time when too many people see you for what you are) and most of them have no idea what people like you said and did in the past. What they then decide to do is not for me to decide or comment on.

I prefer to let people make up their own minds and judge for themselves, rather than go down the road of prejudice and trying to influence what others think about a particular subject or person. I prefer not to make assumptions or accusations or call people names. I'll leave that squarely to you. 

You have made absolutely no attempt to address my previous post which made plenty of reference to what I have said in the past. We know the real reasons why though. It doesn't fit your agenda here. 

Now, if you want to be constructive about the subject at hand, please do. I'm not really interested in dealing with someone who wants to turn a discussion about the EU Referendum into just how much they dislike me and feel the need to tell the entire board why in a subjective manner. I'm not concerned about me in this at all, but I would be about you.

Maybe you could explain why you think leaving the EU could be a good idea. This is actually the thread to do it. Or would it be too much that we actually agree on something other than Assad?

Pol

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #168 on: June 16, 2016, 02:17:52 PM »
See Cameron has called in the political heavyweights now, Jeremy Clarkson wonder who is next my money is on dale Winton or Orville the duck and chase the gay n green vote
Weirdo   Mosher   Freak.

Stamp Out Prejudice Hatred Intolerance Everywhere
Not Vengeance  -  Punishment  !

Pol

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #169 on: June 16, 2016, 03:03:06 PM »
Weirdo   Mosher   Freak.

Stamp Out Prejudice Hatred Intolerance Everywhere
Not Vengeance  -  Punishment  !

Pumpkin

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #170 on: June 17, 2016, 07:47:01 AM »
I see many good points in leaving the EU, but what I can't stand is right wing cunts, all the way from boris johnson to you...

Care to expand on that?

Or is it just another flippant remark?

Pumpkin

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #171 on: June 17, 2016, 07:54:03 AM »

Shush

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #172 on: June 17, 2016, 11:49:10 AM »
I see many good points in leaving the EU, but what I can't stand is right wing cunts, all the way from boris johnson to you...

Although I caved in and posted on this topic earlier this week, as a rule I avoid topics of a political nature on here like the plaque. The above comment is exactly why. Anyone who dares to look at the other point of view or has a different opinion is shot down for it. Danny, Pumpkin is clearly a big boy and can look after himself, but I looks to me you think anyone who thinks differently to yourself is ****. 15 million people in the U.K. who chose to vote the opposite way to you last year, all cunts.  ::)

Pumpkin

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #173 on: June 17, 2016, 01:16:04 PM »
Thanks for your post, Shush.

I think this is an excellent topic, and its importance is that it should be discussed freely by a large number of participants on the board who should wish to do so. The importance of the referendum and its implications are without question. It's probably the biggest decision of our generation.

There are different viewpoints and we can all learn more from that.

There was a perfectly civil discussion here throughout until it was hijacked by Danny to exercise personal vendettas.   

Regardless, I hope others will continue to post and offer their take on the referendum.

Bunny

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #174 on: June 17, 2016, 02:31:52 PM »
Quite right too. Discussion and debate is healthy. I disagree with the outies but theyre perfectly entitled to an intelligently formed opinion. I wont change their mind, they wont change mine. It.doesnt mean it cant be discussed. We're all adults.
Hala (from the Anglo-Saxon word "halh", meaning nook or remote valley), until it was gifted by King Henry II to Welsh Prince David Owen and became known as Halas Owen

Shush

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #175 on: June 17, 2016, 02:46:42 PM »
Exactly. Me and you disagreed on something else in the past D/B, happy to discuss as such with you here or when we see each other again, always respect an informed well put opinion, but not with shouts and name calling. Sorry, Danny, not trying to turn this into an anti-Danny thread. I admire the way your are dedicated to your beliefs. Just feel the "C" bomb is too much. 

ldopas

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #176 on: June 17, 2016, 03:15:57 PM »
Not having been on this board much lately, I actually just read this whole thread. Plenty of good points either way.

Idopas, how was my post rude? Essentially, I was comparing Brussels to London which I think is valid.

I still think that it would be a great shame if Britain left the EU. I feel that both sides would be worse off. To me a vote against Europe is essentially a vote for the right regardless of anyone's actual political leanings. I just can't see it any other way. I hope I'm wrong. I agree with most of the arguments levelled against the EU but I just don't think that the alternative will bring the desired results.

Anyway, choose wisely people. As others have said, this is bigger than any particular party or politician that you may dislike.

Hi, been away for a while. Apologies I really don't recall saying you were rude. I did look back at my posts and cannot find reference to it. So again sorry if I got it wrong somewhere.

And I completely agree with your last point. Since I've been away it looks like people are getting very heated about some politicians. Which is irrelevant really because this is about our relationship with Europe and not our political biases in the UK and which UK politicians we hate. It is, as you say MUCH bigger than that and I think we need to get our heads out of which politicians we hate and onto EU issues. We've got just over a week.

ldopas

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #177 on: June 17, 2016, 03:18:11 PM »
Interesting that labour have sent out the. "big guns"  Gordon fcking Brown the only good thing he did was help inspire the tiagd lp . Cameron has played his trump card early - pensions might have to be cut in an attempt to frighten oaps the people most likely to vote and vote out. Labour had the chance last week to vote against the tpd (European directive on tobacco n vaping) . Corbyn said it was wrong yet he sends the party whips and shadow health minister out of get everyone on side. No wonder the party is going down the pan . 1 Scottish mp and beaten into 3rd place in the Scottish Parliament by the fcking tories wtf. Get a grip Jeremy, how long till England wakes up and realises your party is full o shit , if it hasn't already

And that is exactly what I was saying, or trying to say earlier, without the colourful vernacular!  ;)

ldopas

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #178 on: June 17, 2016, 03:20:22 PM »
Gotta say, Osbournes threat today of a new, what I can only describe as a 'bully budget' (ie, if you don't do as we want, we'll really **** you over financially) was a new low...   >:(

Osborne and Darling's threat lest we not forget MR.

ldopas

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Re: EU Referendum
« Reply #179 on: June 17, 2016, 03:25:56 PM »
I don't engage with trolls and do my debating in real life, with people who stand before me rather than hiding behind Internet handles. If other people want to do that here that's their prerogative, I just thought I'd warn them as to who they are dealing with, seeing as the turnover on this board is pretty high (something you've used to your advantage, conveniently disappearing for long enough periods of time when too many people see you for what you are) and most of them have no idea what people like you said and did in the past. What they then choose to do is not for me to decide or comment on.

Wow. That sounds like a threat to a person who was only posting about what he thinks about the EU. The fact that you do not agree with it doesn't require a response like that surely? I've been here a long time and do not recall him speaking to you like that? Though I suspect I will be called a "right wing c" now.

Or to put it another way. You sound like a person with stress issues that go beyond this. That goes nowhere healthwise I am here to tell you as someone who died on the 9th January this year from it and other complications, but thanks to our  brilliant NHS am here to tell you that. Something to consider?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 03:33:22 PM by ldopas »