We're only made of water, frequencies get us high...

[cthulhu]

Hello music and frequency lovers,

i want to share something with you that i recently found out and got very impressed by it. The story goes a little like this:

In 1939, an international conference[15] recommended that the A above middle C be tuned to 440 Hz, now known as concert pitch. As a technical standard this was taken up by the International Organization for Standardization in 1955 and reaffirmed by them in 1975 as ISO 16.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch

and before that it was more like 432hz but it wasn't standarized.

There are many theorys out there about the subject, some of them go into a conspiracy theory and i don't want to get into that.
If you get interested you should research it for yourself.

Now here come the interesting things:

This is a video comparison of a "Cymatics experiment tonoscope 432-440Hz"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zw0uWCNsyw

I find it fascinating how the frequencys affect the displays. There are some videos out there how water reacts to it, so that's the reason for my headline of the topic.

Here you have a good comparison of music played in different tunings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ze44-Ppj-c

I then went to change music i have, i chose orange tree roads, and found it more pleasant in 432hz, but the quality suffered by the process. I used a wav file from the cd and used audacity to pitch he sound.

Here's a video how to do that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO1jSeP-e-o&index=35&t=69s&list=LLkVpM-ItP0lgC7RKfodHJuA

So, what do you think about it?

I for myself am just fascinated about frequencys and how they affect matter. The discussion about its implications is vast and my standpoint is, that frequencys do affect emotions. And that a standarisation is only good for marketing, i would say. To have always the same product quality, which i'm not into. I plea for that you tune your instrument how you like it the most, but the fact is that it is standarized.

When you discuss the subject there are so many things playing into it. Like flowers and plants grow better when played harmonic music, that everything is related in numbers, like you can relate the orbit of a planet to a frequency.

A german band which i very like, m.walking on the water, did an album called pluto. They said:

Tempo and basic tone of the song Pluto have a relationship to Pluto's orbit. The tempo (131 bpm) is the 34th octave and the basic tone (140.25 hz) is the 40th octave of the 248 years, Pluto needs to travel around the sun


I have a book called "nada brahma- the world is sound", a very fantastic book about spirituality and that music/sound IS life.

To this book there was a very long german radio broadcast, in which the author explained so many things and made some sound clips, like a choir singing "amen" in a church, blended into monks chanting "om". And he explained that it's about he vibrating "m" and the sound that it makes.

I'm really at the end of my abilities to express myself about this topic in english, but i hope i could interest some of you and you can do some research for our own about this.

[Master Ray]

Was it Napalm Death who experimented with a super-low frequency that could make the audience, basically, shit themselves?

WHY WOULD ANYONE DO THAT???  Or do their audience show up and say 'wow, I hope they play that song that makes me shit myself!  It's only a fifty mile train journey home!'

 

[Ghosttrain]

Have heard that story about several bands...........not too sure about it,VERY DISTURBING if true...

[Master Ray]

Have heard that story about several bands...........not too sure about it,VERY DISTURBING if true...

Perhaps it's an urban myth... I certainly hope so...

[cthulhu]

Was it Napalm Death who experimented with a super-low frequency that could make the audience, basically, shit themselves?

WHY WOULD ANYONE DO THAT???  Or do their audience show up and say 'wow, I hope they play that song that makes me shit myself!  It's only a fifty mile train journey home!'

 

ha, ha, i never heard of that and think this must be an urban myth. but there's an episode of south park, which is called the brown noise, and they find that tune ..
and then there are crowd control weapons, which use elf-waves to make you sick. but that's all quite off topic.

maybe it's my fault, i did put too much different but connected themes in the topic.

so to make it simple again, i was astonished to find out that before the standarisation of the A in 1939, all music was tuned with another A, and that A sounded better to me.

i have to think about that nma went to a certain studio to record the drums for bdaw, because they had analog equipment, which i found a very impressing move. i loved that.
to me it's fascinating to think about the differences of these recording technics.

when you record analog, there is a continuous flow of information, the string vibrates the air, the air vibrates a membrane in the microphone, the membrane vibrates "things" in the microphone which induce electric-magnetic signals, and they are recorded continously on magnetic tape. and then it goes backwards.

when you record digital, the signal is cut down to 1 and 0, either a peak or nothing, and that is done thousand of times per second, but there is nothing "in between". does this affect the spirit of a sound? is there a spirit of a sound?

you have to try it out yourself, watch the man play the guitar, listen and find out if you prefer a sound/tune/hertz:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ze44-Ppj-c

[Anna Woman von NRW]

Blimey - that's a big topic 

Some of passed straight over my head I'm afraid. I found it interesting to find out about the standardization of A , not something I knew about or had even considered. It makes me wonder how much "non-standard" music is out there somewhere waiting to be created and how much has been missed out on.

I watched the video link you posted and I preferred version 1 - no idea why and perhaps I would have preferred version 2 on another day. What are the interactions going on that makes us lean towards one thing over another?

There is a noticeable difference between analog and digital sound but you have to go back to older technology to hear it but it's there and yes I do believe there is a spirit of sound and we've stopped hearing it - digital cuts it out.

Non verifiable "evidence" here: plants most definately do respond to sound, nurseries I've known have played music in greenhouses/polytunnels and these are commercial ventures. It doesn't have to be music either, I talk to my plants and I KNOW I get better results than when I don't.

An interesting, if big and complicated, thread Cthulu 

[Master Ray]

Apparently, 'the brown noise' is, quote, 'A note that is ninety-two octaves below B-flat. Hearing the brown noise makes people have an uncontrolable urge to shit their pants'... perhaps a more technical mind than mine can explain if this is possible? Means sod-all to me!     Cthulhu?

Sorry to keep returning to this, but I'm sure I remember reading some hardcore band talking about this...

[lotus]

Some weeks ago I was at a gig of a guitar player - accustic guitar and playing finger picking
Between the songs he told us, why and how he`s tuning one of his three guitars and we could follow how the sound was changing
I´ve never realized before how much changing the tune of the same guitar is important for not only the sound, but also way of the fingers of the player have to change the way to play it
And that accistic guitars don`t like some special tunings for longer than a gig - they want to be tuned in their normal way before stored away ...

[lotus]

The "brown noise" reminds me of a story I`ve been told (and that`s not a hoax):
Many years ago Jan Akkerman (guitar player of "Focus") was touring solo, it was a very small venue, someone after the gig asked him for the way to the toilets - and he aswered:
"Just follow the brown line" 

[jc]

There is definitely something about bowel loosening frequencies going by the stench of guff in the Pit for certain songs.

Cheers

jc

[cthulhu]

Oh, c'mon folks..seriously? Brown noise splattered all over this wonderful topic? Kind of an obsession is showing...;-) That's all your fault master ray;-)) But ok, i'm glad that there is a little discussion going on here and i'm glad that Anna also found is fascinating, that the main tuning tone of music was standarized and it is argueable, if for the better.

But to come back to the brown noise *facepalm-smiley*
i definetly think, this is an urban myth. but on the other hand, there are weapons out there, which use sound/frequencies:

A long-range acoustic device has been used by the crew of the cruise ship Seabourn Spirit to deter pirates who chased and attacked the ship.[3] More commonly this device and others of similar design have been used to disperse protesters and rioters in crowd control efforts. A similar system is called a "magnetic acoustic device".[4] 'Mobile' sonic devices have been used in the United Kingdom to deter teenagers from lingering around shops in target areas. The device works by emitting an ultra-high frequency blast (around 19–20 kHz) that teenagers or people under approximately 20 are susceptible to and find uncomfortable. Age-related hearing loss apparently prevents the ultra-high pitch sound from causing a nuisance to those in their late twenties and above, though this is wholly dependent on a young person's past exposure to high sound pressure levels.

High-amplitude sound of a specific pattern at a frequency close to the sensitivity peak of human hearing (2–3 kHz) is used as a burglar deterrent.[5]

Some police forces have used sound cannons against protesters, for example during the 2009 G20 Pittsburgh summit[6], the 2014 Ferguson unrest[7], the 2016 Dakota Access Pipeline protest in North Dakota[8], among others.

It has been reported that "sonic attacks" may have taken place in Cuba in 2016 and 2017, leading to health problems, including hearing loss, in US and Canadian government employees at the US and Canadian embassies in Havana.[9] Some events as reported would seem to violate the laws of physics,[10] and it has been suggested that they are in fact an example of mass psychogenic illness.[11] Cuban investigators have reportedly dismissed claims that sonic weapons have been used against American diplomats, describing them as "science fiction".[12] The US issued an alert to its employees in China after it learned of a possible "sonic attack" on a US citizen working there. The employee complained of symptoms from late 2017 through April 2018 [13], then returned to the US and was examined by a doctor who said the person had suffered a mild traumatic brain injury (MTBI). The US diplomat likened it to the incident which they say happened in Cuba.[14] In early June, 2018 several employees were evacuated from their work in the U.S. Consulate offices in China and sent back to Pennsylvania for testing and diagnosis after sharing similar concerns.[15]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_weapon

but that is really not what i want to talk about here in this thread, may be i should open a special brown noise thread

I now think that the word frequency makes this thread like a subject which many might feel is too technical and out of their knowledge space, but it isn't. My interest lies in the standarisation of that tone, which every other tone then comes from and relates to.

So Anna listened to a comparison of tuning and also felt that 432hz has a nicer feeling to it. Well in that case.

So what i'm thinking about is, how much would the music i listen to sound different if tuned in 432.

I've tried it out with "orange tree roads", one of the more uplifting and very beautiful songs of the repertoire, and it even sounded better, but sadly the conversion took a huge bit of overall quality.
I think this will be easier if you have single instrument music, and all the examples i listened to on youtube, which had an immediate impact and a better feeling were piano sounds.

And yes, i also think there's much more in between music, a spirit of resonance which goes somehow away by making it pure digital mathematics. i'm very pleased that the analog long players have some kind of revival through the years and i found some interesting youtube videos of how to properly set up your player, because the technic behind it reacts very subtle to mechnics.

[jc]

Hello Klaus, do you think the tuning preference is related to the pitch of your voice as you subconsciously try to sing along in your head.

Cheers

jc

[cthulhu]

hey jc,

i don't really get what you mean? i think there is a 1,117% raise of speed, as a frequency is how often per second it "vibrates" when tuned to 432, and maybe yes.
the thing is that i'm just used to the standard pitch and if i imaging music pitched differently there would also be a raise in the singalong in my head.

[jc]

When you sing a tune in your head you engage the muscles and vocal cords silently, so I am suggesting perhaps you may prefer the tuning most comfortable to your vocal register; just my thought no facts to back it up.

Cheers

jc

[Anna Woman von NRW]

It doesn't surprise me to read about the sound "weapons" you mention cthulu - I was aware of some of them already - In the fevered conspiracy theorist corner of my brain I imagine there is an awful lot more work being carried out in this field, after all hearing is one of our major senses and anything that upsets the working of it is a highly effective disruptor. Anyone ever had bad earache?

JC's question is also one I find interesting as it raises the relationship between standardization and individuality. No two human beings are identical so why should any sensory input have a standard impact on us, Visual art doesn't so why would sound.

Cthulu I don't pretend to really understand how the process works but maybe if instead of Orange Tree Roads you tried a more accoustic based song you'd get better results, you say piano works better what about Brave New World 2? If we could hear the difference in something that we know it might be a better example.

And yes, i also think there's much more in between music, a spirit of resonance which goes somehow away by making it pure digital mathematics.

I don't know how this could be scientifically proven but I'm convinced it's true. Reducing something that is soulful/spiritual/intuitive (?) to a mathematical construct must surely lose part of what it was in the process?