Author Topic: Coronavirus (Covid 19)  (Read 7013 times)

fiddlesticks

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Re: Coronavirus (Covid 19)
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2020, 01:57:13 PM »
 This really IS a crisis!

Hope you get through it OK Ghosttrain!


Ghosttrain

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Re: Coronavirus (Covid 19)
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2020, 11:18:59 AM »
Cheers Matey.... :)..

Johnz

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Re: Coronavirus (Covid 19)
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2020, 06:36:15 AM »
Here in NZ all supermarket items are limited to two per person. It has been fairly well behaved so far. They announced the lock-down for Wednesday and things got very busy but still very orderly and respectful without any of the chaotic scenes I have seen from abroad. Just trying to get a few non-food things while I can.

These are strange days. Look after each other and stay healthy!

Pumpkin

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Re: Coronavirus (Covid 19)
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2020, 11:34:53 AM »
The questions that really need to be asked surround the unacceptable behaviour of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) itself:

1) Why did the CCP ignore reports of the virus well before it became public knowledge?
2) Once evident, why did the CCP target the whistleblowers like Li Wenliang and several others who had amazing courage to defy them?
3) Why did the CCP destroy test samples?
4) Why did the CCP lie to the world about the seriousness of the situation? I don't think anyone can dispute this seriousness.

The only European country that really took serious measures about this was Russia. The only European country which is actually delivering Italy much needed help on all fronts is Russia; the same country which isn't as badly affected, because they had the sense to seal their borders with China and put restrictions in place, both external and internal, without fear of being called racist by fools who know nothing about science and coronaviruses. (Note the plural of the noun here - remember SARS which also originated in China in 2002?)

(By the way, Johnson still allows flights into the UK from China, Iran and Italy...the mind boggles at the stupidity of this man throughout).

There are a hell of a lot of serious questions which need to be asked here.

At this moment in time, I'm not even going to address the vile, disgusting reality of wet markets, the complete lack of sanitation and proper hygiene, and the absolutely fecking revolting business behind wildlife exploitation and wildlife trade which also plays a role in coronaviruses.

If you haven't seen a wet market, look one up on youtube and educate yourself on what's really going on.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 11:43:41 AM by Pumpkin »

Isaac(Black Eagle Rising)

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Re: Coronavirus (Covid 19)
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2020, 09:58:35 PM »
Do you really believe in that Russia isnt hiding anything? I'm not claiming about that and I dont have a proof but such a giant country has only 438 cases and 1 lost makes a lot of questions in my mind.Such a weird times we live in and lots of disinformation around.I hope it is like that but I really doubt about it anyway.

Pumpkin

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Re: Coronavirus (Covid 19)
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2020, 11:46:41 PM »
Might be a big country, but the population is miniscule by comparison. They enacted stringent measures from the onset, because they did take it more seriously – as you would if you shared a massive border with China where it all started. The number of cases in February was minimal.

Even more stringent measures are in place now since the virus entered from nationals returning from Italy at the beginning of March. Most of the current increase in confirmed cases is down to this. They currently have some of the highest testing numbers in the world right from January, according to the WHO which has also approved of their labs and said they’ve dealt with it better than many others. Confirmed cases are rising, and probably deaths will do likewise. Still, nowhere near the scale seen elsewhere. They're sending many of their top specialists in virology to Italy. 'From Russia with love.'

Japan took similar strict measures and has been very successful. We, on the other hand, have pissed about too long and now come out with shite like a 20,000 death toll might be some sort of good outcome. I wouldn't trust this current government or the opposition to run a bath these days.

« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 11:55:22 PM by Pumpkin »

Wessexy Witch

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Re: Coronavirus (Covid 19)
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2020, 11:30:05 AM »
Sat at home scared.

 :(
Whooosshhhh !!!

Isaac(Black Eagle Rising)

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Re: Coronavirus (Covid 19)
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2020, 12:02:29 PM »
This is what the head of russian allience doctors union says.Im not sure of course this is true or not but I personally dont trust even official resources in countries like russia,iran,china and my own country
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-russia-doctors-say-government-is-covering-up-cases-2020-3

Pumpkin

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Re: Coronavirus (Covid 19)
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2020, 01:44:56 PM »
There is a lot to suggest that countries which closed their borders and implemented appropriate measures had lesser rates of inflection. No one disputes Japan's success here - only 41 deaths - something quite extraordinary in the context. Even if we look at Ireland, their death rate is very low, simply because they took it seriously and enacted the appropriate measures. I also don't think they were accepting flights from China, Iran and Italy well into a period which common sense would dictate that it was inappropriate to do so.

The WHO seems to be patting Russia on the back, but the same organisation has kept its mouth shut about important measures China failed to do. Most of Russia's current infections stem from returning nationals. To me, that indicates a failure to see how rapid the virus moved from China into Europe. Only time will tell if they experience the same spikes in numbers that western European countries have. The EU failed to sanction border closing and has done nothing for Italy and Spain. The fact Italy begged Russia for help is indicative of the EU's shameful inability to act properly on behalf of its members states. (Yet, did they really find time yesterday to provide Iran with a €20mn aid package, with Italy and Spain left on their knees?)

I'm less interested really in the situation in Russia and more interested in what developed in China, because this is the real crux of the matter here.

The CCP emphatically and repeatedly denied that human transmission was possible, despite the fact that doctors in Wuhan concluded it was an undeniable fact. The same doctors were then designated enemies of the people for going public with their grave warnings of a new SARS-like virus. We've been here before: the CCP also denied that in 2002. In late 2019 this particular coronavirus jumped from an animal species to humans, probably through a Chinese 'wet market'. The Lancet identifies the first "Chinese" coronavirus patient on 1 December last year. Even earlier doctors in Wuhan stated it was spreading between humans at this point.

The CCP's reaction: shut down the whistleblowers and cover everything up:

Dr Li Wenliang (now dead);
Dr Mei Zhongmin (now dead);
Chen Qiushi (missing since 6 February, 2020);
Fang Bin (missing since?); and,
Professor Xu Zhangrun (missing since ?).

It's normal business in China to behave like that, but it really has made them lose face to the outside world. Now you know why Hong Kong continues to fester. Why live under such an authority? We've got a government full of shitehawks who won't even stand by our former colony - because it will 'ruin' our relationship with Beijing and the free-trade deal we so desperately want. Christ, at least the Americans support the Taiwanese who also don't want Beijing.

On Christmas Day last year, large amounts of medical staff in Wuhan had contracted 'viral pneumonia', further evidence of human-to-human transmission. Denied outright by the CCP against clear medical evidence. Denied even by the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission on 31 December.

The new year begins with Dr Li and seven others arrested. We know he's dead, but the fate of the others remains unknown. On 1 January the Hubei Provincial Health Commission, on orders from the CCP, orders the termination of any new testing and the destruction of all existing samples. On 2 January some 13,500 people left Wuhan to destinations in the US. An additional 175,000 people left Wuhan to other destinations in China and abroad. Only on 9 January did the CCP announce that the Wuhan Institute of Virology had mapped the genome of the virus. Before that announcement Hong Kong had already warned of a new viral pneumonia which was transmitted human-to-human. By 6 January the New York Times had already identified a Wuhan virus - remember 3 days before the CCP would admit anything.

I could go on and on, but you get the point. Even on 10 January the Wuhan City Health Commission declared there was no proof to support so-called evidence of human transmission, despite evidence from doctors in Wuhan that this was a scientific fact. Political leaders refused to discuss the so-called virus and simply felt the likes of Dr Li were some sort of Western-backed enemies of the state. How bloody intelligent when people in and around Wuhan and beyond knew something was wrong.

The party sat on its arse and fired out slogans and arrested those brave enough to bring the situation to their attention. What they should have done is put their inflated egos away and listened for once. Only now does President Xi wander around, trying to assure (not reassure) our naive, pathetic political leaders that he was always on top of everything and offers help unconditionally. We're so afraid of losing trade links that we keep our mouths shut about it, and almost deny it originated in China for fear of the accusation of racism and the reality of losing trade incomes.

The CCP lied to itself, its own citizens and the world about the Chinese virus/Covid19/2019-nCoV, whatever you want to call it, and the effects of it nationally and internationally. Why should anyone really be surprised about this behaviour? Why should anyone ever trust the words of the CCP?

Only on 23 January did the CCP finally own up to the evidence and establish steps for quarantine in Wuhan. Too bloody late! Millions had already left, because they had a strong premonition of what was really going on, even if Xi and the CCP were in blatant denial. Just in time for the Chinese New Year, when millions go to other cities and abroad to celebrate, so again this 'exodus' and mass movement of people could be covered up for what it really was and understood by people in and around Wuhan and beyond. Subsequently, the virus was well on its way to south-east Asia, Europe, the US and beyond by the middle to end of January.

And this is why we are where we are now.

I remain to be convinced the whole thing wasn't planned in some way or another.
 

« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 02:17:50 PM by Pumpkin »

ldopas

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Re: Coronavirus (Covid 19)
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2020, 04:01:44 PM »
Might be a big country, but the population is miniscule by comparison. They enacted stringent measures from the onset, because they did take it more seriously – as you would if you shared a massive border with China where it all started. The number of cases in February was minimal.

Even more stringent measures are in place now since the virus entered from nationals returning from Italy at the beginning of March. Most of the current increase in confirmed cases is down to this. They currently have some of the highest testing numbers in the world right from January, according to the WHO which has also approved of their labs and said they’ve dealt with it better than many others. Confirmed cases are rising, and probably deaths will do likewise. Still, nowhere near the scale seen elsewhere. They're sending many of their top specialists in virology to Italy. 'From Russia with love.'

Japan took similar strict measures and has been very successful. We, on the other hand, have pissed about too long and now come out with shite like a 20,000 death toll might be some sort of good outcome. I wouldn't trust this current government or the opposition to run a bath these days.

That's the problem though isn't it. If you are a despotic country with few freedoms the powers that be can exert control over the populace quickly, as they have been doing probably anyway over time. In a liberal democracy like ours it is much more difficult.

Lest we forget people laid their lives down in wars and protest to give us those freedoms. Now a virus has come about that is much more devastating where you have a populace who are not controlled by autocracy and despotism, telling them to stay indoors or they will be arrested is not only difficult but goes to the core of the very democracy and freedoms people laid down their lives for.

Not fair is it.

ldopas

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Re: Coronavirus (Covid 19)
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2020, 04:05:52 PM »

I remain to be convinced the whole thing wasn't planned in some way or another.

I'm surprised that no one has proffered this has something to do with climate change zealots. Seems coincidental that this virus has virtually shut down markets, grounded planes, taken cars off the road, reduced pollution and made society much more parochial and insular. Isolate and divide if you will.  :D

Pol

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Re: Coronavirus (Covid 19)
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2020, 10:58:20 AM »
Hopefully all the NMA family are doing ok . I'm even finding the lockdown tough and I'm a introverted loner at the best of times . The house is looking well clean  , though still have more to do. Built up a supply of games to play other the last cpl of weeks including red dead 2 and the witcher 3 but can only play xbox for a few hours before I've had enough.
Anyway is these troubled times I hope all the family stay safe , stay strong everyone
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Ghosttrain

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Re: Coronavirus (Covid 19)
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2020, 11:05:53 AM »
Guernsey in lock down,Jersey not ?....looks like our idiotic Politicians may let us down again.. >:(..

Pumpkin

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Re: Coronavirus (Covid 19)
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2020, 12:16:12 PM »
Might be a big country, but the population is miniscule by comparison. They enacted stringent measures from the onset, because they did take it more seriously – as you would if you shared a massive border with China where it all started. The number of cases in February was minimal.

Even more stringent measures are in place now since the virus entered from nationals returning from Italy at the beginning of March. Most of the current increase in confirmed cases is down to this. They currently have some of the highest testing numbers in the world right from January, according to the WHO which has also approved of their labs and said they’ve dealt with it better than many others. Confirmed cases are rising, and probably deaths will do likewise. Still, nowhere near the scale seen elsewhere. They're sending many of their top specialists in virology to Italy. 'From Russia with love.'

Japan took similar strict measures and has been very successful. We, on the other hand, have pissed about too long and now come out with shite like a 20,000 death toll might be some sort of good outcome. I wouldn't trust this current government or the opposition to run a bath these days.

That's the problem though isn't it. If you are a despotic country with few freedoms the powers that be can exert control over the populace quickly, as they have been doing probably anyway over time. In a liberal democracy like ours it is much more difficult.

Lest we forget people laid their lives down in wars and protest to give us those freedoms. Now a virus has come about that is much more devastating where you have a populace who are not controlled by autocracy and despotism, telling them to stay indoors or they will be arrested is not only difficult but goes to the core of the very democracy and freedoms people laid down their lives for.

Not fair is it.

No, it isn't at all. The reality is though that it's a necessary 'evil' at this moment in time.

Going back to statistics about this particular virus, there's an amazing piece in The Hong Kong Economic Journal about the massive collapse in mobile phone accounts in China in January and February only - a staggering 14 million mobile users have disappeared from the network.

https://ejinsight.com/eji/article/id/2412704/20200325-Delving-into-the-decline-in-China-mobile-phone-accounts

To me, what this would seem to suggest is a higher death toll than official statistics claim. It could also suggest a large number of people have also gone 'missing' (see references in previous posts). Undoubtedly, it indicates the undesired effect of the CCP's behaviour on their own economy.

I don't trust a single word from Xi's mouth about any of this. I reckon their death toll is many many times more than official statistics would suggest. The reality is that we'll never know: they'll cover ever angle of it up.

I also echo what Pol and Ghosttrain said. Our politicians are absolutely pathetic in dealing with this. They never took it seriously from the start; they have no real plan of action. Italy has to beg Russia for help, because the EU can't even co-ordinate help to its own member states.


Johnz

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Re: Coronavirus (Covid 19)
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2020, 08:47:17 AM »

Going back to statistics about this particular virus, there's an amazing piece in The Hong Kong Economic Journal about the massive collapse in mobile phone accounts in China in January and February only - a staggering 14 million mobile users have disappeared from the network.

https://ejinsight.com/eji/article/id/2412704/20200325-Delving-into-the-decline-in-China-mobile-phone-accounts

To me, what this would seem to suggest is a higher death toll than official statistics claim. It could also suggest a large number of people have also gone 'missing' (see references in previous posts). Undoubtedly, it indicates the undesired effect of the CCP's behaviour on their own economy.

I don't trust a single word from Xi's mouth about any of this. I reckon their death toll is many many times more than official statistics would suggest. The reality is that we'll never know: they'll cover ever angle of it up.


To be clear, nowhere in that article does it actually suggest that the drop in mobile phone accounts is in any way linked to a higher than reported death toll (The article concludes that the most likely reason is that people are giving up some of their multiple phone accounts due to the recession caused by the pandemic). So this is purely speculation on your part and not in any way supported by the link you provided (which most people won't bother to read but they will retain your bit of unfounded opinion). These are uncertain times full of misleading information distributed by people with their own questionable agendas. Please don't add to that.

Admittedly, I wouldn't put it past the Chinese government to play down the threat of the pandemic but I am surprised that you believe that Russia would not resort to the same tactics. And while the number of reported cases remains low, they have reported a sharp increase in lung infections. Apparently, these are not cases of the corona virus. Make of that what you will, but it doesn't bestow a great deal of confidence in the accuracy of the reporting of Russian corona virus cases. Here is the link: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-coronavirus-health-russia/sharp-increase-in-moscow-pneumonia-cases-fuels-fears-over-coronavirus-statistics-idUSKBN216305