In reply to Johnz.
When I said, ‘To me, what this would seem to suggest’, I should have clarified ‘this’ as the drop in mobile phone users/accounts. It is what I meant, but I should have been clearer.
I’ve made use of modal verbs (would and could) which clearly don’t state anything definitive. This is additionally reinforced by the use of ‘suggest’, because that is what it is, and ‘to me’ to reflect this is my interpretation and/or opinion(s). I write in such a manner for these reasons.
I think it’s hardly an example of ‘misleading information’ on the basis of some ‘questionable agenda’. What I said here was not stated as fact, but when it was you had no issue with it. So, what exactly is this ‘questionable agenda’ then? My central criticism throughout is of Xi and the CCP and their collective, abhorrent behaviour. I note you haven’t taken issue with that or the connection between ‘wet markets’ and coronaviruses. This is really central to my argument, isn’t it?
I’ve read widely on the issue, probably more than the average person at this stage, and I certainly don’t claim to know everything. I also have some personal experience which offers a first-hand insight, having recently been in Jiangxi, the next province to Hubei (Wuhan), in late October and November last year. I saw a 'wet' market in Nanchang; I'll refrain from comments here. What I can definitely say is one can’t function in China without a mobile phone (as a tracking device and form of ID, to pay for goods and services etc…). The very next day after I arrived I was presented with a Chinese SIM card, because 'this makes life so much easier for you'. The government tracks everything you do, and they know exactly where you are and where you are going at all times. Using facial recognition and mobile phone tracking, I wasn’t even able to gain access to certain buildings or even leave the one I lived in without having my mobile, literally in my hand, and showing my face into a screen before I left. Personally, I found the overwhelming ‘Orwellian’ edge to everything about everyday life quite unsettling, as I imagine many here would. Consequently, I find it almost impossible to believe that the authorities somehow don't know what's going on, especially with what happened in neighbouring Wuhan in December of last year.
Such a massive collapse in mobile phone users/accounts would seem to suggest (again note the choice of language) the death toll is higher than official figures, and that a number of people have gone missing. I actually provided proof of the latter, small though it is. This decline is also down to the economic effects of the CCP’s behaviour - which I stated in no uncertain terms. I don’t believe you refuted this. The higher than official death toll isn’t a proven fact yet, and it may never be unless the CCP come clean, but I would confidently suggest that it is much higher. However, I’d be more than glad to be proven wrong here.
Your assertion I believe Russia would not resort to the same tactics concerning data manipulation remains unclear. Earlier I stated Russia is not really what this is all about. I support closing borders as soon as possible - hence the example. I also upheld Japan and Ireland as good examples of this. There is no dispute about this. However, I also said the WHO ‘seems to be patting Russia on the back’, but ‘only time will tell if they experience the same spikes in numbers…’ I’m critical of their failure to apply the same border closures throughout. There is now an official increase in confirmed cases. It may well be inaccurate, but they could also refute that increase. As I understand, that increase in confirmed cases is due to returning nationals from abroad. Perhaps there’s more to it. There is the argument of increases in pneumonia and the connection to the coronavirus, but there is also disagreement about this in the Reuters article you presented. Therefore, it’s not really offering any concrete evidence, is it? It’s an interesting and important read, nonetheless, the subject of which deserves attention.
Are we getting the full number of infected cases and even deaths in Russia…Iran…Italy…Spain…the USA and the UK? Most likely we aren’t (at present) for a number of reasons beyond this post.
Herein lies the difference: the virus didn’t originate in these countries. China has a vested interest, and a clear 'questionable agenda' in downplaying these numbers for that reason, and that reason alone, not to mention a number of others. I could see a plausible reason to suggest Russia and Iran would or could downplay numbers.
**There is now talk in the UK that we are 'fiddling' the death figures amid concerns for 'family consent'. What largely seems to be true now is that data collection is not uniform in many countries. Could Boris Johnson really be doing this, keeping criticism of the CCP off the table and still keeping the borders open for incoming flights from China, when the rest of us are all in lockdown, to get his much valued free-trade deal? Any quarantine measures in place? Just a thought...
Again, it’s what has happened/is happening in China that is of fundamental importance here. I think any defence of the CCP would be a ‘questionable agenda’. They did it with SARS in 2002; they’re doing it again in 2019-2020.
Out of interest, do you think if the same thing had happened in Hong Kong or Taiwan that they would have behaved in this manner?
Unfortunately, this is a repeat of SARS, but on a greater, far more worrying scale.
I sincerely hope we learn from this one for a change. If we are to do so, we have to be able to question everything about it. The CCP clearly doesn't want anyone in China or the outside world to do that. That was evident from even before it was officially recognised.
** Added to original post in light of new information.
