Author Topic: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!  (Read 12179 times)

Master Ray

  • Totally Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 9470
  • Searching For The Old Posters On This Forum...
Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2013, 08:02:15 PM »
OK, just finished my third listen and I feel ready to post my thoughts...

Well, it's not an 'immediate' album.  It mostly doesn't have the big choruses or fist-pumping tunes that will get people climbing on each others shoulders during the November dates, at least not on first listen.  This is not an album that will give up all of its treasures on the first listen.  If you're going to try and introduce a newbie to the wonderful world of NMA, this is probably not the album to do it.

But I bloody love it.  Seriously and completely. Deffo in my top three NMA albums ever.  One track that sticks in my mind is 'I Need More Time'... that sums up my life right now.

'Qasrel Nil Bridge' and 'Did You Make It Safe' are probably my favourites right now, but that may change as I listen to it more and more over the weekend...

Stephanie, I totally respect what you said about your feelings about BDAW.  This is not a band who make the same album over and over again.  If this one didn't tickle your fancy, I hope the next one will.  For the record, I wasn't all that keen about 'The Love Of Hopeless Causes', which seems to be a huge favourite amongst NMA fans!  ;)

To sum it up... IMO, it's 63 minutes of utter excellence that I will listen to over and over again between now and the November dates...

 

wilf

  • Established Member
  • **
  • Posts: 95
Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2013, 08:22:37 PM »
Here's one I did earlier:

Right, here’s the procedure: The new NMA album has arrived, albeit only as a download so far which means that I have no lyric sheet or anything. I have burnt the songs onto a CD and I’m going to listen to it and review each song in real time. As long as the song plays I’m allowed to review it. So this is pretty much a first impressions exercise and subject to later change (especially after the live gigs!).
Horsemen: Tribal rhythm and some slide guitar to start, lyric snippet “On the far right they’re saddling up the horsemen” might be a reference to Nigel Farrage’s UKIP which would make this a political song; quite monotonous until the guitar sets in,  NMA are a rock band, after all, quite sophisticated composition with some good backing vocals
March in September: Great start with some swirling organ sound, Michael on drums does the business as well, Ceri plays a great bass line which makes the memory of Nelson redundant; “So you tried to make family but nothing was given” unclear so far, probably one of Justin’s story songs about a person only he knows; great guitar solo (probably by Marshall) at the end and woo-oo-oo backing vox; texture of the song also enhanced by a violin (probably played by Ceri)
Seven Times: “Seven times sun, seven times rain”, might be a love song “It’s been too long since I walked with you”; another song dominated by the drumbeat, sounds quite commercial (a bit like Autumn), a very tasteful and not at all rocking guitar solo; I think this is the song during which Ceri plays the bodhran live
Did You Make it Safe?: Another one in the list of songs about people leaving their country (comp. Refugee and Another Imperial Day, not G&G because the leaving is not voluntary); interesting brass sound (Dean’s keyboards?) halfway through, “Did you make it safe to the promised place?” , overall a drum and keyboard song
I Need More Time: Another tribal drumbeat; Justin employs his Leonard Cohen voice (comp. Whites of Their Eyes and Someone Like Jesus); slow and brooding, “I need more time to make good on the promises”; again sophisticated backing vocals which makes it sound over-produced; some interesting use of the piano, though; last part speeding up like Red Earth but with much less guitar; the character in the song pleading with someone (“I need more time” ad infinitum)
Pull the Sun:  Bass driven to start with, interesting rhythm guitar, bubbling drumbeat, lyrics obscure, bass still dominant which is not a bad thing but overall the weakest song so far, goes on for a bit too long
Lean Back and Fall: More of a traditional rock song albeit slow; chorus girls (sorry, boys) go wailingly “I’m falling again”; a typical NMA song
Knievel:  Shows that Justin is a secret biker, it is about Evil Knievel, the recently deceased motorcyclist and stuntman; live sound and acoustic guitar at the beginning; “I was driving from the day I was born  … I was always going too fast… Do they come to see a man fall or to to see him fly?”; crooned by Justin “Frank Sinatra” Sullivan
Stormclouds: The first real rocker, great guitar riff and organ accompaniment, “Desire is the point of everything… Here come the stormclouds”, has the potential to become a real anthem (like Island or Get Me Out and so many others), speeds up at the end to a great crescendo


Between Dog and Wolf: the title track, named after a medieval French expression for dusk when you don’t know if the animal approaching is one or the other; eerie keyboard and percussion at the beginning; Justin crooning again (in general, the vocals are high up in the mix on the album); comes into its known with the fast and driving chorus, another one which should be great in a live setting; percussion solo (maybe played by Ceri) at the end
Qasr El Nil Bridge: A song about a geographical landmark like La Push and Marrakesh; Arab voices to start with, building up slowly until the drums set in; good story song, quite commercial, some Arabian sounding string instrument is discernible in the mix but ultimately driven by the drumbeat, again quite sophisticated backing vocals; final part of quite a long song (7 minutes!)includes some killer improvisation and speeds up considerably to a climax, another highlight of the album
Tomorrow Came: a straightforward rock track of the faster variety, good stuff, Marshall’s guitar upfront in the mix; more of these, please!
Summer Moors: slow and bluesy, dominated by acoustic and slide guitar, another sad love song like Dawn and Turn Away “You were so much in love with her … you were just another setting sun”), excellent stuff
Ghosts: drums and handclasps to start, lyrics seem to be about the end of a relationship (like Long Goodbye), “The ghosts [of a former relationship – my interpretation] are part of us”, of the slower variety

So there you have it, 14 songs in 65 minutes and well worth the wait of 4 years since Today Is A Good Day. The album will take time to grow on me unlike TIAGD , High and Carnival which pretty much caught my ear straight away. Methinks, Justin and the boys wanted to challenge the fans with this one and they have certainly achieved it (if indeed this was their aim). The proof of the pudding lies in its eating so roll on the live gigs!

Fatalist

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
  • Now I understand what they told me those years ago
Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2013, 08:29:58 PM »
Hmmm very different. Very different indeed.

The first three tracks having been previewed live on the mini tour in May (or previously) I have 'got' and love, specially Horsemen and also Seven Times.

This though will not be every NMA fan's thing and I admire Stephanie for being candid in her views. It feels a bit like a concept album to me but I gave it a first spin on a papery Bush CD player in our kitchen after it dropped through the letter box late morning today and have just played the first three tracks on my Kenwood stack system next door which has VERY bassy speakers and the production and drums sound f***ing amazing. Can see what JS means about it being sonically the best thing the band has ever produced.

I also recall JS saying once that cars were made for listening to music in while driving and I intend to get this on full vol on the commute in on Monday a.m. for a fully immersive and uninterrupted and extremely LOUD listening experience. Look forward to that. My car speakers won't like the drums (and this is the second set as I blew the first due to my love of loud music in the motor..)

On an interruptedbythekidsfirstlisten, Knievel was a real stand out. Storm Clouds wasn't as good as a review I had read lead me to believe it would be. And I Need More Time to not only decipher but differentiate the rest.

Horsemen feels like a Carnival type of Red Earth style track so familiar territory. The rest is very new ground for the band I think.

Not sure how it will work out on the road for the tour dates over the next couple of months but it will be interesting to see how the band achieve that.

I think the band needed to try something different this time after their 'rock band in a room' phase and it is clear that they have done that very thing with BDAW. Of the latter NMA albums, I loved Eight and Carnival instantly, High very quickly, TIAGD about as quickly. But this thing of some considerable labour of love by the sounds is gonna take time and attention to love in the same way that I have loved all NMA albums before it. If it's gonna be the NMA chill out album to end all NMA chill out albums then so be it. I have always loved Justin's ballads right from the early days.

The long awaited new album experience was slightly spoiled by a page in the CD booklet being faulty, have heard someone else has the same issue. Apart from that Joolz's artwork is the usual high standard, and it was a nice touch by the band to sign a limited number of these for those of us who care about such things and in lovely gold pen too!

Not had the best of weeks professionally, so maybe that's coloured my judgment on a murky pre autumnal day and when I blast the car stereo on Monday all will be well with my NMA world.
I'm crying out to the gods who couldn't care less - come and get me if ya can!

jackroadkill

  • Obsessed
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
  • Just fourscore years and ten old friend...
Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2013, 08:47:15 PM »
Have to say I'm with Stephanie on this one...

Production is fantastic, sounds are lovely but the album is boring.  Doesn't flow, has no variation in intensity or tempo and very little dynamic.  I can see the songs from it being okay 3/4 of the way through a live set, before the big build up at the end, but otherwise I think it's eminently forgettable. 

Was hoping for something packed with songwriting, but that seems to have been forgotten about somewhere.

Sorry!

franconian

  • New
  • *
  • Posts: 33
Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2013, 09:16:16 PM »
Listening the  first time. Im triying to hold my first thoughts. In a view days I will post a second review.

Sounds like, NMA has not yet refilled their repertoire of instruments and drums und bass have to unwind this problem an fill the songs ...  ;D A lack of guitars and where is the snare-drum? Until "Pull the sun". The first association on Knievel" ist the album "Eight". Too early to explain why.  I looking forward the expierience, how they will arrange this songs live in concert.

Experimental. Atmospheric,  This is what they said/announced.  8) But at the moment I'm assuming, up to Knievel, the songs become more familiar with that, what NMA did at the Albums of the last decade.

But the first listen is not enough to say worthful words about this album. Anyway I did.

About me: I'm from Franconia as a part of Bavaria/Germany. I'm living near to Nuremberg. And so I have visited all gigs of NMA around this region since the early Nineties. I assume, the next concert in Nuremberg at October 18th will be Number ten. 8)

Excuse me, I'm not very good in english language. I would give me a great pleasure, if someone will give me a feedback,  wheter my post is difficult to understand or not. Did I express myself cumbersome?

P.S.: But why Im associating this album with "Eight"?



Please tell me about my english language skills if you want. I'm german and always interessted in learning english

Barty

  • Totally Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1100
  • ...No Greater Love...
Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2013, 09:17:47 PM »
I would say it takes any album at least a year to bed down enough for the listener to really review it....for me, songs take a long while to truly reveal themselves and their intricacies. That said, I can usually quickly identify songs I'll never like.

My very early thoughts on Between Dog and Wolf are that it's got huge potential to be my absolute favourite NMA album, which is no mean feat.

Early stand out tracks are:

March in September (very familiar thanks to the live performances but a classic song with a great melody)
Seven Times (as above - but the lyrics hit home for me even more)
I Need More Time
Pull the Sun
Knievel (potentially the best NMA song ever written)
Between Dog and Wolf
Summer Moors

Gonna play it again loads tomorrow and forever......at this early stage, I'm seriously impressed. Love the artwork and packaging too. Well done to all concerned!
 

.                                                                               I'm just a country mile behind the world...

Fatalist

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
  • Now I understand what they told me those years ago
Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2013, 09:29:41 PM »
Listening the  first time. Im triying to hold my first thoughts. In a view days I will post a second review.



Yeah right with this, will do the same myself after a few (or a lot) more listens
I'm crying out to the gods who couldn't care less - come and get me if ya can!

kinboshi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 167
Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2013, 09:43:47 PM »
Difficult one.

Certainly not a bad album at all, and 'sonically' it's excellent and the production is obviously top-notch. There are some very decent songs on the album, and there are probably four or five that stand out for me. 

However, not sure there are any that are going to be crowd-favourites at gigs. Yes, there are some that are good live (March in September and Seven Times, obviously). The album is certainly different, which isn't a bad thing.  I was hoping for a few 'States Radio' and 'Disappeared' songs amongst the mix - some belting rock tracks that are excellent live and shake things up a bit on the album. 

Will probably be a 'grower' (rather than a... 'show-er'?) - and like I said, from my first handful of listens, there are certainly some good tracks.  It feels that some of the songs are being held back a bit.  Stormclouds is almost brilliant, but feels like it could have been taken up another gear with some  unrestrained guitar from Marshall or some drumming from Michael like on Ocean Rising.  Between Dog and Wolf is one of my immediate favourites on the album as well, but also feels like it needed to be 'let loose' a little.

Anyway, it's a very good album, but I'm being hyper-critical as I was hoping for something that would blow my socks off and leave me speechless.  It isn't that.

Bill B

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2013, 09:57:40 PM »
Excuse me, I'm not very good in english language. I would give me a great pleasure, if someone will give me a feedback,  wheter my post is difficult to understand or not. Did I express myself cumbersome?

Crystal clear franconian. Not cumbersome at all. I wish my German was as good as your English!

And the album - Blimey it's only a bloomin' masterpiece!!!! It's no easy to compare it to previous albums, as I'm not now where I was then. But for where I am now, it sounds amazing. Less an album, more a perfectly laid out emotional and reflective journey...

jackroadkill

  • Obsessed
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
  • Just fourscore years and ten old friend...
Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2013, 10:56:05 PM »
Just given it a second go... Awful.  Tried and tried to like it but it sounds like the middle part of a NIN double album on Mogadon. 

df

  • Established Member
  • **
  • Posts: 68
Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2013, 11:32:41 PM »
I've listened to it a couple of times now and it's growing on me, it's not my favourite album but there are some good tracks on there. March in to September and Seven Times for me are the highlights but placing them so close together makes the rest of the album a bit of a difficult listen as it's a bit dark....shuffle helps though :)

I remember feeling like this about Carnival and 8ight though too when I wished the sound was more like T&C and Impurity and now with time they're like an old friend to me.

This album doesn't smash you in the face like TIAGD did,but the tracks are far more complex and gripping in a different way. I love the way each album has changed direction over the years as the band have grown and made their way through changes and challenges.

One things for certain, it'll divide the fan base on its merits  :)
I can catch myself sometimes these days, and all I do is laugh

peternotbaldyet

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2013, 02:05:22 AM »
It is 3 in the morning. I listen for the 5th time. There is genius here. Qasr El Nil Bridge. How can anyone write that song. And the passion. The goddamn passion. Vengeance is 33 years gone. No one releases music like this after all this time. Vital.

Johnz

  • Totally Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2013, 07:33:31 AM »
This album has lured me out of my long-term lurkdom. I think it's fantastic. Someone on the German board said it sounds like a cross between Carnival and Navigating By The Stars and I can see why. Lots of highlights here. Qasr El Nil Bridge is quite possibly one of the most amazing songs the band has ever written. I can see how some people will struggle with the overall tribal, almost hypnotic vibe of many of the songs but I love it. Respect and thanks to the band for staying true to themselves and continuing to write music full of passion and thought. Shame I can't make any of the concerts. Maybe we'll get the promised Oz/NZ tour after all...

Guillaume

  • Totally Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1513
Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2013, 09:36:41 AM »
"Seven times" is so addictive, very simple riff and melody, the drum sound adds greatly to the flavour... a cracking track, love the lyrics...this song is really what NMA is about for me overall, endlessly praising the beauty of life, even if our lives can be so harrowing at times.
Same for "March in September"...both of these songs are vintage NMA, the most typical stuff we are used with them on the album.

OK, just finished my third listen and I feel ready to post my thoughts...

Well, it's not an 'immediate' album.  It mostly doesn't have the big choruses or fist-pumping tunes that will get people climbing on each others shoulders during the November dates, at least not on first listen.  This is not an album that will give up all of its treasures on the first listen.  If you're going to try and introduce a newbie to the wonderful world of NMA, this is probably not the album to do it.

I totally agree.
I think that it is the album that is going to divide the fan base, like "Strange Brotherhood" before it.
Albums like "Thunder and consolation", "The ghost of Cain", "High" and "Eight" were addictive right from the start (i tend to think that NMA are often at their best when they are at their most "simple"), albums like "Strange brotherhood", "Carnival" and "Between dog and wolf" are not as "easy".
That's strange, i think that the album doesn't completely flow, it "lacks" something for me but in the same time i think that most of the songs are fine songs, well written and well made:

the drum beat of "Horsemen" and the sound of this song overally haunting, "March in September" and "Seven Times" true NMA classics, i like the drama, movie cinemascope intensity of "Did you make it safe?", the anxious mood, despair and obssessive rythms of "I need more time", the raw feel of "Knievel", "Qasr el Nil Bridge" also an unusual and quite beautifully  made song, a bit out of this world, etc ;)

Lean back and Fall is a bit boring

It doesn't really fits with the rest of the album, the sound and mood a bit different...it should have been more fit on "Lost songs" or "The love of hopeless songs".
I also think that "March in September" sounds different from the rest of the album.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 10:02:03 AM by Guillaume »

Frank

  • Obsessed
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2013, 12:31:19 PM »
Have to say I'm with Stephanie on this one...

Production is fantastic, sounds are lovely but the album is boring.  Doesn't flow, has no variation in intensity or tempo and very little dynamic.  I can see the songs from it being okay 3/4 of the way through a live set, before the big build up at the end, but otherwise I think it's eminently forgettable. 

Was hoping for something packed with songwriting, but that seems to have been forgotten about somewhere.

Sorry!

Totally respect your opinion but I think the album is wonderful, ok I have only listened about 5 times now and yes its different but I am glad its different, NMA have always diversified to some extent and are a better band for it. Maybe it will grow in time for you Jack??
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 12:37:09 PM by Frank »