Author Topic: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!  (Read 12158 times)

Knievel

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Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #135 on: September 29, 2013, 12:31:48 AM »
I didn't think they could follow Today is a good Day.
And when they did I didn't think I'd write about it seriously here...
There's been a good few words of praise and encouragement for the new Bass Guitar Man - you deserve every good word mentioned Ceri - I'm sure I'm not alone in having a disheartening feeling when Nelson split - mighty big boots to fill - well done for wearing your own my friend - Seamless work - really impressive.  Thank you for all you've brought into the band.  I really appreciate it.
This thread is already full of my thoughts on the LP - cinematic soundscape of a passion delivered with the skill that previously we only expect from a punk peter gabriel...so let me skip any review...I'll be standing in the mosh pit like a totem pole this time around friends - don't let me ruin your night.
What a record!

Impuri-D

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Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #136 on: September 29, 2013, 07:59:42 AM »
Been a while since I have posted, and I never rush to a conclusion on a new NMA album, because I have to listen many times before I hear them, if that makes sense.

Having had it on continual rotation since it (and the awesome t-shirt) arrived on release day, I now feel I can make my initial assessment.

Firstly, from the promotional snippets the band are using, I am delighted to see them get some music media/critical recognition. It is long overdue, and if this is the album that generates the praise they deserve as artists and musicians, then I am thankfull for it.

But this is not the best album of their career. 
Nor does it evoke Pink Floyd, Nick Cave, or any other such comparison being floated and quoted.
Nor is it a particularly new, or different sound for them in my opinion.

For me, it is a return to, and furtherance of, a sound and emotional palette first flirted with on Strange Brotherhood, and then established with 'Eight'.

The production is lush, but maybe a little too luxurious at times, and I think it diminishes the power and directness of Justin's delivery. I like being able to hear the spittle in his s's, even in quieter moments, but its not here.

There is also a distinct absence of build, or crescendo to the songs. The 'NMA money shot' as I like to call it. Compare Horsemen to Red Earth, for example. The moment in Red Earth where the guitars pounce and the anger soars is just magnificent. Horsemen canters on its drums but never reaches the gallop it needs to finish the race.
The only time they try a finalé is on Stormclouds, but its just a jarring tacked on 10 second thrashout. There is no catharsis for the listener.

As to subject matter, when I listen to Justin's lyrics, they always seem authentic. I have no idea if he is a keen sailor, or has visited North American Indian reserves, or Nepalese mountain Temples, or faced off against police in protest lines, but his lyrics make me believe he has with the veracity of the emotions he evokes.

But here we have a song, written in the first person, By Evel Knievel. Its actually one of my favourite songs on the album, but its an uneasy feeling listening to this band eulogise a guy who spent most of his life as an alcoholic misogynist hiding behind a clean-cut all-American persona, until he beat a journalist half to death with a baseball bat for exposing the facade. I mean sure, he was fearless and uncompromising and all that, but the guy was also an asshole.

I think its the first time I can remember where I have heard an NMA song that felt like it wasnt written from the heart, but rather as a literary exercise.

Elsewhere, little is standing out, or really speaking to me. The title track is strong, and I can see it as one of the only songs presented that could possibly translate to a live setting without radical reworking.

And yet, even though the individual songs leave me underwhelmed, I cant stop listening to it  ;D I have yet to work out if its because it is a whole greater than the sum of its parts, or if I am subconciously aware of a greatness that I am looking to unlock with perseverance. Time will tell.

8/10 for me. A good interesting album, but from NMA, 'good' after High and TIAGD feels very underwhelming.









I meant what I said at the time that I said it.

Barty

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Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #137 on: September 29, 2013, 08:19:44 AM »
The only time they try a finalé is on Stormclouds

...and I Need More Time  :)

I would also defend Knievel (the song not the person) by saying I don't think its a eulogy, more an imagination of the man's thoughts. JS says in the mag that people mentioned Knievel wasn't a particularly nice chap but why should that prevent him from creating a song about him....a very fair point I'd say.

Some very interesting points there though mate - thanks for sharing them.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 08:21:19 AM by Barty »
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Impuri-D

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Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #138 on: September 29, 2013, 08:44:20 AM »
...and I Need More Time  :)

I would also defend Knievel (the song not the person) by saying I don't think its a eulogy, more an imagination of the man's thoughts. JS says in the mag that people mentioned Knievel wasn't a particularly nice chap but why should that prevent him from creating a song about him....a very fair point I'd say.

Some very interesting points there though mate - thanks for sharing them.

I need more time kinda does, but again, its not what I call a 'real' NMA big finish. Its sort of artsy dischord and just shouting the title in repetition.

As to Knievel, I take the point, but it also strengthens my assertion that its not a song written about something close to Justin's heart, and that comes through in delivery and the experience for the listener.

Over the years, when 'Abandoned tracks' and 'Lost Songs' were released, I was astonished by how complete, and realized, and strong every track on those compendia were/are.

The feel of BDAW for me, is kinda what I expected to experience from those releases. There is a feel of filler, of going through the motions here and there, and I wonder if the tumult and disasters surrounding the creative process contributed to that.

Like I say, despite my criticisms and reservations, I cant say I dont like it, but High and TIAGD were both such intense experiences for me, that merely 'liking' the new album feels a little hollow.

I meant what I said at the time that I said it.

Barty

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Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #139 on: September 29, 2013, 09:08:37 AM »
Fair points mate.....but Ceri's bass work at the end of I Need More Time (almost played as a lead) really augments the finish for me.  I'm lucky in that I genuinely love the album and would put it up there with their greatest work....yes, there are 2 songs I'm not as keen on (Horsemen and Stormclouds) but it's an absolute classic for me.

I love the fact the band never stands still or takes the easy option. I can't wait to experience some of the songs live - it'll be interesting seeing how they translate. I actually prefer the live versions of March in Sept and Seven Times so I should be in for a treat.
 
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 09:12:11 AM by Barty »
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markp

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Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #140 on: September 29, 2013, 10:03:37 AM »
Six totally immersive plays. The goose bumps are now appearing for every track.

TIAGD smashed like a bottle across the face first listen. This is more like an intravenous injection. Once the infection, the inoculation, the intoxication hits everything is right. And inevitable.

There's a moment everyone goes through every day when the subconscious starts dancing with the conscious before eventually consuming it. That's Between Dog and Wolf.

Absolutely astounding accomplishment to capture that on vinyl.

MarkP.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 10:34:52 AM by markp »

Impuri-D

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Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #141 on: September 29, 2013, 11:53:36 AM »
I love the fact the band never stands still or takes the easy option

Totally agree with you there. They have a unique and unmistakeable sound, but never a 'formula', so while the signature and brush strokes are recogniseable, the work on the canvas is always different.

And to be fair, 1 week in is still not even breaking in the album - it took me nearly 2 years before Carnival 'clicked' as an album for me, and now I love it  8)

I have to live with BDAW, see it performed on stage, and let it absorb. You cant force it, I have just been very lucky with the last 2 albums attuning to my frequency from the off, but luck is always a finite commodity  :)
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Guillaume

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Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #142 on: September 29, 2013, 12:41:22 PM »
There is also a distinct absence of build, or crescendo to the songs. The 'NMA money shot' as I like to call it.

There is no catharsis for the listener.

Maybe, but that's also one of the "innovative" bits of this new album i think, to not deliver the usual crescendo we expect usually from the band (aside from the crescendo ending of "I need more time" for example)...think about past songs like "Modern times", there was no real crescendo or obvious chorus in this song, a bit like in this last album...they wanted IMO to try to build the songs a bit differently, relying more on moods, atmosphere than classic explosive payoffs, it's probably a more subtle, low key approach to the sound.

I think its the first time I can remember where I have heard an NMA song that felt like it wasnt written from the heart, but rather as a literary exercise.

I don't know...many (all?) NMA songs are little stories, from Justin's experiences or the experiences of other people (friends or people he didn't know like Knievel)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 12:56:38 PM by Guillaume »

Impuri-D

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Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #143 on: September 29, 2013, 12:57:15 PM »
I'm not sure a lack of focus, or structure, is the same as innovation.

At the moment, to me,  it feels like there is too much reliance on the depth of the production, and the music it has been applied to come off as a little lazy

The new songs feel all middle.

So at the moment, to me it feels like a middling album.

I feel weird writing this because I realise that in the past, any time I have not had an immediate positive reaction to an NMA album/song, I have actively disliked it, and then over time, it has won me over.

With BDAW, it is the first time in 25 years that an NMA album has made me go 'meh, its ok', and that makes me sadder than if I hated it for some reason.

I meant what I said at the time that I said it.

Guillaume

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Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #144 on: September 29, 2013, 01:00:11 PM »
I actually prefer the live versions of March in Sept and Seven Times so I should be in for a treat.

I like more "Seven times" on studio than live...the drum sound in particular.
To be honest, first time i've listened to the "March in September" single, i didn't like too much it's "pop" sound, different from its raw and great live sound that i liked at the Paris gig last year...now i think that it is one of the best songs on the album, quite infectious and it sounds great.


At the moment, to me,  it feels like there is too much reliance on the depth of the production, and the music it has been applied to come off as a little lazy

A minor issue i have is that a few songs are a bit too long ( "Lean back and fall", the endings of "Between dog and wolf" and "Ghosts"), maybe there's too much reliance on the rich production but it same time it gives a "wandering" mood to the album, not uninteresting, a bit like the flow of "Navigating by the stars".


With BDAW, it is the first time in 25 years that an NMA album has made me go 'meh, its ok', and that makes me sadder than if I hated it for some reason.

Myself i was/am a bit "Meh, it's ok" with "Strange Brotherhood", "Carnival" and "Today is a good day"...with each passing years i've learnt to appreciate more their songwritings and tunes.
"Immediate" NMA stuff were for me the Sullivan/Heaton period (aside from "Strange Brotherhood"), "Eight" and "High".
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 01:09:18 PM by Guillaume »

Impuri-D

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Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #145 on: September 29, 2013, 01:27:28 PM »
It would appear we both acknowledge certain observations regarding the music, but for you they are strengths,and for me, at this stage flaws.


I meant what I said at the time that I said it.

Guillaume

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Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #146 on: September 29, 2013, 02:09:27 PM »
I'm curious to listen to the new songs live..."Seven times" and "March in September" are different sounding live...i'm mixed about "Strange Broterhood" and its sound but i quite liked its songs live.

Impuri-D

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Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #147 on: September 29, 2013, 02:20:45 PM »
Agreed.

I have to live with BDAW, see it performed on stage, and let it absorb.
I meant what I said at the time that I said it.

1900sr

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Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #148 on: September 29, 2013, 05:05:51 PM »
Got the album today, and now playing it for the second time (first time in the car on the way home). This is the first NMA album I've bought since Strange Brotherhood (which I found to be a disappointment and only played a handful of times). It's certainly not really hit me yet, I'm thinking it sounds more like a side project than an NMA album. Having said that I think NMA have written songs like this for years, but always as an album track or a b-side, never a whole albums worth (bearing in mind I've not even heard any of the albums since Strange Brotherhood). I'll give it a few more plays, hopefully it'll be a grower. Certainly the production's good, but then so's the production on a lot of bland dross, I'd rather have good songs and poorer sound.

By the way, I played Strange Brotherhood again a few months back and it was a lot better than I remembered.

Barty

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Re: "Between dog and wolf": your reviews!
« Reply #149 on: September 29, 2013, 05:35:40 PM »
I'll give it a few more plays, hopefully it'll be a grower.

It definitely is worth sticking with it. Almost every album I've ever heard by any artist just sounds OK on the first few plays...I can guarantee this is a grower...songs that passed me by now grip me. It's well worth investing the time mate....and also buying Eight, Carnival, High & Today is a Good Day too. ;)  ;)  ;D
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