Why Didn't New Model Army Ever Become Big?

[Space]

I remember early '80s music mags were trying to pick some post-punk bands that were going to be big. One article analyzed Echo and the Bunnymen, The Teardrop Explodes, and U2 wondering which would be the one to break big. Well, we saw it was U2. But we also saw The Police, The Clash, even The Southern Death Cult of all bands hit the big time.

And deserve's got nothing to do with it. The Chameleons deserved to be big, they never were. Bono and the Edge sure didn't deserve to be, and they were.

My question is why didn't New Model Army ever make it big time? Ever become household names like The Police, The Clash, U2? Once again, deserving it does not enter the equation. In other words, quality of material is not a factor in determining success in the music biz. (Is Katy Perry's material better than Bob Dylan's? Nope, but she sure is bigger.) So if the actual content of the band doesn't really matter, what prevented NMA from making it big?

(Have to include a brief story here. Mid '80s MTV was brand new here and EVERYONE was watching. Friend told me he saw a video by some band and he said they were the ugliest band he'd ever seen. I discovered he was talking about the "51st State" video. Now is that one of the factors that held the band back?)

I say one of the things that prevented a big breakthrough for NMA was a lack of touring the States. All the post-punk bands that had massive success really made an effort to tour as much as they could across America.

What do you say? Why didn't NMA ever make it big?

[Amandistan]

Because the band did not take shit from record companies. I think they wanted to do their own thing without a record company having control. I get the impression that back then, Justin did not care what critics or record executives though, he just wanted to make art primarily. Then as a bonus make enough to pay bills off of it.

Also I think Vengeance may have frightened some critics. I don't think they fit under any label either.
When i hear post-punk, i think of a 1980s band who cares more about image, fashion and their hair than actually art. NMA are not like that. I think it's unfair to say they are the ugliest band ever because everyone has a different idea of what is physically attractive.

Plus i think that America denied them a visa.

Early U2 very well did deserve success. The first three albums are brilliant and they seem like all were  nice guys at the time of their rise.
Bob Dylan was just as big in the 1960's and still highly regarded as well. Success has nothing to do with talent as far as big record companies go. It's about who will make them the most money.   That was sting and the police singing "Don't stand so close to me".

This is just my theory as I have no memories of the 80's at all.

[Shush]

What do you say? Why didn't NMA ever make it big?

A good question Space 

It is a question everyone who likes the band asks themselves at some point. In my opinion they are not famous because they do not want to be.

JS wrote some very challenging songs for Vengeance. The swearing on "Vengeance", and the at the time very controversial lyrics in "Spirit of the Falklands" are not radio friendly and pushed the band to the outside of the industry. In the film, Phil Jupitus made a comment I agreed with, if the band had been famous they would probably have split up years ago. JS has often referred to the fall outs and break ups in the earlier years. With the pressure of fame on top, that may well have been enough for a full split.

I personally get the impression that JS would like to avoid being famous at all costs. In an interview once he said he was told that if he ever wanted to make it in the States, he would need to get his teeth fixed - which he has not chosen to do. To me he seems to be a very humble man that while he likes people to enjoy his work, he does not like to be the centre of attention, and maybe in some ways is a bit shy about it. To me, professionally he is a world class musician, but personally someone who wants to remain an ordinary bloke, one of the lads. As such avoided becoming famous all these years. I do believe that it has never been about the money that would come with fame. I cannot imagine JS compromising his music to make it popular. That my view on it, but obviously I cannot speak for him.

Maybe it is better to be loved and admired by thousands than liked by millions. 

[Master Ray]

IMO, two reasons... firstly, not photogenic enough.  80's MTV ( the real benchmark of which band would make it and which wouldn't) wasn't ready for a wild-eyed madman / genius with questionable dental hygiene, no matter how passionate and beautiful his songs were...

Secondly, they weren't willing to remix their songs into potentially stadium filling tunes... look at The Alarm for example, some good tunes, but I can imagine some fuckwit producer turning some of NMAs classics into something like this... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D6pPgwafq0

And even if NMA later chose to go down that route (thank God they didn't!) they were 'old news' by that point...

IMO, anyway...

[Red]

IMO, two reasons... firstly, not photogenic enough.  80's MTV ( the real benchmark of which band would make it and which wouldn't) wasn't ready for a wild-eyed madman / genius with questionable dental hygiene, no matter how passionate and beautiful his songs were...

Secondly, they weren't willing to remix their songs into potentially stadium filling tunes... look at The Alarm for example, some good tunes, but I can imagine some fuckwit producer turning some of NMAs classics into something like this... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D6pPgwafq0

And even if NMA later chose to go down that route (thank God they didn't!) they were 'old news' by that point...

IMO, anyway...

That's a job for Space 


Sorry, even after I started a new thread I just had to have one last comment


Goodnight

[Master Ray]

IMO, two reasons... firstly, not photogenic enough.  80's MTV ( the real benchmark of which band would make it and which wouldn't) wasn't ready for a wild-eyed madman / genius with questionable dental hygiene, no matter how passionate and beautiful his songs were...

Secondly, they weren't willing to remix their songs into potentially stadium filling tunes... look at The Alarm for example, some good tunes, but I can imagine some fuckwit producer turning some of NMAs classics into something like this... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D6pPgwafq0

And even if NMA later chose to go down that route (thank God they didn't!) they were 'old news' by that point...

IMO, anyway...

That's a job for Space 


Sorry, even after I started a new thread I just had to have one last comment


Goodnight

BA-DUM-TISH!

[Heno]

probably because they never set out to be

sometimes you can influence the outcome through choice

i don't even know why anyone who respects nma would ever even ask such a stupid question

[Space]

Heno, why insult my question by calling it "stupid"? Others here have offered some constructive answers to that "stupid" question and it is actually you who are, I'll use your word, stupid when it comes to artists and their work.

You say NMA never set out to be big. That type of thinking is typical of a teenager. "Don't sell out! Being big is wrong! Keep it real! Sell only 100 copies at independent record stores!" You really still haven't grown out of those ideas?

Fact: every single artist wants their art to be heard by as many people as possible. You really think Justin Sullivan wouldn't want millions and millions listening to, enjoying, learning from his work? As soon as you sign to a record label you are admitting that you want people to hear your work. If not, then why even bother performing outside one's bedroom?

I can name only one artist who didn't want to be big. The poet Emily Dickinson. She wrote her poems and hid them in a box which she kept under her bed. No one saw them while she was alive. But guess what? Justin Sullivan isn't recording songs and tucking them under his bed. He wants you and I and as many others out there to hear his work. There is nothing wrong with sharing your work with as many people as possible. If you paint a wonderful painting, wouldn't you want it to be displayed at a national museum for all to see? What makes you think NMA want their music to be listened to by a tiny number of people?

The very first time Justin Sullivan played his guitar in front of someone else -- be it a friend, a family member, a stranger -- he demonstrated that he wanted his music to be heard by others. He wanted to share his art. And the very first time Justin Sullivan signed his name to a record contract, he demonstrated that he wanted his music to be heard by as many people as possible. That's not a crime. That's what any artist would want. Share their wonderful creations with as many of us as possible.

A great artist wants to give their work to the people. Be it Michelangelo, Beethoven, Kurosawa, Bob Dylan, or, yes, Justin Sullivan.

[Bever]

No, Space, the real question is: why didn't you?

[Heno]

you see space bro, the question is stupid since you already know all the answers as demonstrated by your ability to write pages of responses to justify your point of view. this is not about opinions, it is about yours. it is your need to demonstrate your articulate and well informed opinion.

you seem like a reasonably intelligent and sometimes funny and entertaining type. use it to your advantage. stop wasting it on us. people here don't set out to upset anyone. and they don't take kindly to being upset.

everyone here realises what you are and most would genuinely extend the hand of friendship. but not if you continue to insult them and try to set them up for a slam dunk with your trolling

take it easy. i hope you get your head around it.

[Space]

Yeah, Heno, you pegged me right. I am very intelligent and I do know the anwers to everything. Yet, there are two things I do not know. I do not know who was behind the deflated footballs in last week's Patriots Championship game, and I do not know why New Model Army never made it big. If you can answer either I would appreciate it because then I truly would know everything.

[Space]

not photogenic enough....

Sadly, that just might be the number one answer.

Above I told the story where a friend of mine said he saw the ugliest band he'd ever seen. He was watching MTV and saw the video to "51st State." Now that tune is probably NMA's most easily accessible song. It's also a great song. Yet, all my friend "heard" was how bad the guys in the band looked. I've a feeling he wasn't the only one that felt that way when first coming across New Model Army.

Very sad that a band's looks determines the size of its audience. There's definitely a reason why Katy Perry is playing the Super Bowl this weekend and New Model Army are not. Two reasons. Two big reasons. (And I'll be honest, I hope she has a wardrobe malfunction and we get to see those two reasons.)

[JohnnyM]

The band were pretty big - well medium anyway - in the UK and Germany around the very early 90s - selling out nights at Brixton Academy (4,500 capacity) and doing two sold out nights at the Academy in Manchester (2,300 cap) and getting decent top 30 slots for their albums. But for a whole host of reasons things grounds to a bit of a  halt 1993-97 when they almost split up a few times. When the band regrouped after Rob had left and Strange Brotherhood was released, they lost a lot of the momentum they may have had - which, IMHO, is why they never made it bigger

As for the states - you have to tour constantly to make any headway there. I also think the record companies would have had difficulties marketing them pre-grunge as they were too rock-y for the indie/alt fans and too indie/alt for the rock fans

[Amandistan]

As for the states - you have to tour constantly to make any headway there. I also think the record companies would have had difficulties marketing them pre-grunge as they were too rock-y for the indie/alt fans and too indie/alt for the rock fans

This about sums it up. Agreed!

[Heno]

no idea on the deflated ball but me and a mate have pats to win and brady to be mvp - both 8-1 and €100 notes on it. so i just hope this does not distract or detract from the final game

i wasn't an nma fan until the late 80s and even then lost touch a little until the late 90s again. i was a DKs fan and take most of my cynicism from that. when i really took the time to listen to nma based on a mate cutting tapes to listen to, i just fell in love with how my view could be expressed so melodically. norther soul, drum and base, and some real rabble rousing anthems. its hook line and sinker for everyone i have ever taken the time to share nma with.

george lois, the king of marketing, created the I Want My MTV campaign. when the first one went out his phone and that of the mtv station manager didn't stop ringing. they all wanted to be part of it since jagger and lips had changed the face of pop music driven marketing. good piece here on it: http://www.fastcompany.com/1546713/george-lois-mtvs-changes-his-original-logo-less-snookie-more-stones

so this image might just be the reason

punk and new wave had moved on. ffs i was listening to gene loves jezebel and the cocteau twins. the message, the agitation, the relevance, were all completely overwhelmed by the influx of american sponsored crap to an english speaking country. maggie starts a war to distract about how she was putting the people on their knees. princes of england were flying helicopters, fighting for queen and country. was anyone going to seriously promote a band to mainstream audiences with a name like new model army?

now seriously, who the **** except family is going to stand up and love that in the face of not being cool.

and for artists the amount of people their work reaches is very important. just look at the u2 gobshites nd the talk that bono gave when they announced everyone would get it free the next day on itunes on a stage with the ceo of apple, grovelling to his ability to pay. bono even jokes that u2 didn't give it away free, apple were paying them to give it away free. cunts should be shot.

no, for some artists with a message, and with a practical realisation that their words can help people live a more meaningful life once their eyes are open to the world around them, that they can help see and understand more, is probably a lot more important than records shipped or size of venues.

think about it.....in 200 years time when people look back on this as real distant history, would you rather be remembered as a influencer of poxy fashion or a commentator that gives the history students an insight to how we all felt. we are all part of nma's music, it gives a very clear indication that we agree with what it says about the world today, it will be a contemporary view validated by many followers. most history is devoid of this.

not some ******* pop art crap that gets regurgitated every few years to drive to drive sales of fashion and style

still haven't got a clue who deflated the ball though. and anyway, when was the last time an egg shaped arm torpedo was ever considered a ball

mate

the reason contemporaries of nma in the early days made it big is because the corporations liked what they said. and those stupid bands profess to say what they like. THEY ONLY SAY WHAT THEY LIKE BECAUSE THEIR PAYMASTERS LIKE WHAT THEY SAY. the successful bands can be kept on a leash, controlled, manipulated, too ******* thick to figure it out. in my simple opinion, nma were never prepared to say what they were supposed to, and consequently, most people never heard them say it.