Calais higher wall as our bastard children come home

[Pol]

Thought this was a very balanced view, so here is the link judge for yourself

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/calais-crisis-the-seven-claims-made-about-the-migrants--and-the-reality-10430790.html

[Master Ray]

'Now before Master R accuses me of being Richard Littlejohn...'

Bloody hell, Idopas, single me out, why don't you?

I would never accuse anyone of being Richard Littlejohn.  That's an awful insult.  I might call you a cu...

(... joking, mate...) 

I agree with you to a certain extent.  I'm sure someone made this point before (but can't find the exact quote) but it's apparently written into the whole ethos of the EU that an asylum seeker should be granted sanctuary in the FIRST country that they land in.  That ain't happening, they're being given free train travel out of the country in question (this is a stone cold FACT) and pushed in the direction of France and, therefore, the UK.  Someone else's problem, eh?  And now the UK is bearing the brunt because of what the EU is too cowardly and ignorant to do... once again, ain't the whole EU concept utter fuckin' bollocks, it's every country for itself!   

I truly pity these poor folks... but they aren't being let down by the UK, the EU is treating them like fuckin' rodents and it's disgusting.

[ldopas]

Yepp it was fairly impartial for a left wing paper.

Though when "who has taken who" is published and it shows France and Germany have taken more in, I wish they would also quote the square kilometres of our countries as they are much bigger in landmass so it is all relative.

Something else occurred to me reading some of the posts here criticising us. How many of these people who land in Italy and Greece have Russia taken or other countries never mentioned when we are being ranted at? Russia sought to invite more immigration two years ago, but the uptake was comically low...mmm wonder why? 

[ldopas]

Single you our MR, moi? 

Yepp I agree with your post in the main. Seems that the rules only apply if countries can be arsed keeping to them. But as I said this isn't just an EU thing, where are all the other countries non EU helping while we get slagged off?

Though the concept of being "let down" is an interesting one. You can only be let down if you were promised something in the first place, and to be fair we didn't invite significant numbers to march down the chunnel!

[Shush]

Just a thought on some of the previous comments. G.B is not the only E.U. country to have formerly had an empire. Belgium, Holland, France, Spain, Portugal, etc have all formerly had an empire. The 1800's land grab was a Euro wide race. We may have had by far the biggest, but certainly not the only one. Do people in Calais from the Congo want to go to Belgium, or do  they want to come here.

[Master Ray]

Single you our MR, moi? 

Yepp I agree with your post in the main. Seems that the rules only apply if countries can be arsed keeping to them. But as I said this isn't just an EU thing, where are all the other countries non EU helping while we get slagged off?

Though the concept of being "let down" is an interesting one. You can only be let down if you were promised something in the first place, and to be fair we didn't invite significant numbers to march down the chunnel!

No, they were promised nothing from anyone other than these disgusting bastards who took all their money to stick a couple of hundred poor souls in a sinking boat and told them 'yeah, Europe is the Promised Land...'

[Amandistan]

Okay, well, what makes no sense is that I am not a terrorist. There is nothing about me that suggests I am a terrorist and it's the same for most people. Okay, so to be fair most UK border guards are fine but you get the occasional border guard who wants to ruin lives.

People use  no jobs as an excuse and that there are not enough for EU citizens. If so then why are many restaurants begging for people in the UK?  It's because nobody wants those jobs. They could give it to non eu people who just simply want to work in the UK.

America is not my country. It's the nation in which i was born. I would give up my citizenship in a heart beat if possible.
I am not saying that they treat immigrants well. They don't even treat their citizens well. The subject was Calais  which usually involves UK immigration.  That is why i am mentioning the UK.
People don't use Calais as a gateway into Germany or the Netherlands or even France but the UK! 

[ldopas]

Okay, well, what makes no sense is that I am not a terrorist. There is nothing about me that suggests I am a terrorist and it's the same for most people.

Well I know you aren't, but how do they? What exactly does a terrorist look like that makes it easy for them to spot? They come in all shapes and sizes.

[Amandistan]

Because most people are not. 
Sending back asylum seekers and people who wish to work for a better life (when they can not even survive at home) is ethically wrong and I do not know how people who work in this field ever get to sleep at night.

A friends knows someone who actually married a man from Senegal.  She was from the UK and he was not allowed to live with his wife. He was denied  a visa. She became pregnant and he still did not get in. Basically immigration tore that family and others apart. Marriage doesn't even guarantee a visa. 

One can argue that these people are just doing their job but their job ruins people's lives.  Therefore they are not good people. Their  job is morally wrong.

From your posts, one would take it that you are fairly conservative.

[Pol]

Sadly Amanda no country can take everyone and asylum seekers and economic migrates are separated issues. Try going to Australia or elsewhere

Sadly far too many people have abused the marriage system. I had a friend who was married to a guy from Mauritius, they had a baby son , a home and the guy was working and he ended up getting deported

[Amandistan]

Can you blame them for abusing the marriage system? When that is the only way to live in the country you desire, then fake marriages are the only way. I would do it.

[ldopas]

From your posts, one would take it that you are fairly conservative.

Actually I believe I am a realist.

The fact you think people should be free to move without any reference to lack of resources, security, effect on the environment and how we feed everyone in areas the diasporas would move to, tells me you are perhaps a fantasist?

Never mind me, pay heed to other replies to you from people who are definitely left of centre who are making the same points as me.

[Bunny]

Can you blame them for abusing the marriage system? When that is the only way to live in the country you desire, then fake marriages are the only way. I would do it.

Then you cant blame governments for kicking out the genuine with the false. I understand the ideal world where we'd all be free to go. However given our ability to hate each other and kill each other, its not difficult to see why free movement is restricted.

[Master Ray]

Well put, DrummyB, and put more succinctly than I could.

[Anna Woman von NRW]

It's interesting to see where this thread has wandered and all the different elements that crop up.

This historical stuff - a spurious distraction. You can't change history, And pretty much every country has some skeletons in it's closet, was invaded/did the invading. Where does that end up? Can the English demand something from the French because of the Norman conquest? Do the French in turn go looking to Denmark because that's where the Norsemen came from? Or do we go further? Romans........... biblical times....... ? What matters is now not what happened then. Although of course there is the different issue of modern history which still unfolds around us. It's also a separate issue: What moral responsibility do we have as a consequence of foreign policy?

We also need to be clear on who we are talking about. Asylum seekers and Refugees are different to those who move on economic grounds. A very important distinction.  Someone displaced from their home because of barrel bombs, murderous bands of fanatics, a mineral extraction corporation making the environment toxic or abuse of their HUMAN RIGHTS should be offered shelter. I fail to see how that can be anything other than a fait accompli.How can that even be a discussion?

As for economic migration. Should I choose to emigrate in the near future for my own benefit then I do not expect that country to just open it's arms up and say come on in. I expect to have something to offer, some skill or ability that will be of benefit to the society I'm asking to let me in. I would expect to learn the language, learn the culture and adapt myself to their way of life. If everyone's happy then off I go and everyone's a winner. I don't expect an automatic right to be there and I don't expect to have everything provided for me. Why should I ? Why should another society have to take me in because I want to move? Unless there is a benefit to them why would they? But of course, that raises another question. We live in an industrialised, globalised world where manufacturing, economic activity, food production blah blah blah..... moves at whim around the world depending on best interest. So, if all of that is globalised then why the feck is it different for people?

In terms of where the displaced end up and just how bad Calais really is, or how terrible our "immigrant crisis" is go ask Mr Google how many refugees are in Lebanon. I'm sure you can also ask him what that equates to in numbers per m2 related to population if you like but I doubt you'll need to.

We've not even started talking about the Mediterranean yet have we .................................