McMedia, Pre$$titutes, Propaganda and the Alternatives

[cthulhu]

So let's talk about alternative media sources and news.
Where do you get your informations?
What do you know about the media cartells and the "gleichschaltung" of the mainstream press?
How do you use them?

Here in germany we have some very interesting and informative blogs, which i regularly read. Without them i would go nuts i guess. I still also read some mainstream press, it's like the surveillance of the enemy.

Many years ago i would read "taz", a left daily paper which in the early days really had some thoughts and opinions.
i read "der spiegel" which had done some impressive investigative stuff, which had an immediate effect on politics.
but they changed.

there are some things you cannot discuss. like: no more wars!
there is no reason ever to start a war! this should be non questionable.

in germany that changed with the war against yugoslawia. this was done by telling through constant propaganda, that there's a new hitler there, who has to be stopped.
that there's a holocaust ongoing that has to be stopped.
and you always can stop it by bombing civililian infrastructure and civilians.

so when the green, anti-war party also used that arguments and voted for war, that was it fo me.
the green, anti-war "taz" also found reasons for war and since then, i couldn't read it anymore.
and "spiegel" has become a pure pro-nato, anti-russia, propaganda instrument, to support wars, arming nations for the military industrial complex, etc..neo liberal big BS every day.

but this were some examples of the bad mainstream pre$$titutes.

now for the good ones:

we have a journalist in germany, who had a radio show and was discredited as antisemitic, because he criticized israel politics. so he lost his job.
he then started a crowd-funded youtube channel and is now very successful. i love his programm. true journalism, a variety of different interview partners and most important: time! his interviews at least are 90mins, he has a dicussion panel wher his guests talk sometimes for more than 3 hours about a subject.
i got so many diverse information and inspiration by his channel, that i'm supporting it monthly with some money. i find it very important do do that and it's so good to see that a crowd funded organisation can reach so many people and do good stuff!
https://kenfm.de/
so crowd-funding is a good way for alternative information.

we have
nachdenkseiten.de
in which they collect some articles and comment on them, giving some analysis. this was organized by a politicican with lots of experince in politics "bundestag", so the argument that blogs are run by un-professionals just does not count.

and we have a brilliant cabaret show on tv "die anstalt" in which they really explain and analyse some stuff whcih you just doesn't get in the mainstream. you can learn so much by watching their "comedy" and they even were sued because they uncovered connections of a press-cartell, like all the main editors and owner of the biggest newspapers were all in the same trans-atlantik think tanks. but of course they won later, because they just told the truth.

i need those little islands of journalism and information, otherwise i would think that all the world ist totally bonkers, crazy and stupid.

what do you have in britain for alternative media, which you trust to really inform you?


another crowd-financed blog, with many renowned writers:
https://www.rubikon.news/

a co-founder of "taz", author, hemp activist:
www.broeckers.com

a manufacturer of tiny, self-sufficient caravans and houses:
https://www.wohnwagon.at/


https://www.siper.ch/
https://swprs.org/
https://www.world-economy.eu/

[Whirlwind]

You simply need a good "bullsh!t detector."

I can read/watch anything (from left-leaning MSNBC to Nazi-right Fox News) and I instinctively know where they are lying and where lies the truth.

Other suggestion: read it all. I have three newspapers delivered on a daily basis (four on Sundays) and they range from right-wing NY Post to left leaning NY Newsday. I get all perspectives and from that you get to figure out exactly what the center really is.

[cthulhu]

yes, but to develop a BS-detector you need to get more background information.
the misinformation in the mainstream mostly happens by a lack of background while reporting.

for example:
the "white helmets" are often quoted or reports are being taken by them, rescuing children with many cruel pictures in syria, to blame the violence on assads troops. but this group is group is funded by terrorist organisations and some members are identified as terrorist-combatans.

https://kenfm.de/die-weisshelm-terroristen/
https://www.globalresearch.ca/syrias-white-helmets-fiction-and-reality/5550964

[Anna Woman von NRW]

Holy moly, jesus flying fuckballs what the hell is happening    Just the other day ldopas and I agreed and - I struggle with this, I really do but .... - now i'm agreeing with Whirlwind 

Breadth of opinion and a wide variety of sources is what matters: regardless of what part of the political spectrum you might see yourself as  sitting in.  I read all sorts of media (internet only these days i'm afraid) - mainstream and more independent stuff, hell I'll even watch crank conspiracy videos on youtube  . From the sum of that information, I'll come to my own conclusions as to the real picture regarding an issue: with a bullshit detector based on my life experience

I think it's also worth pointing out that everything comes from an angle of vision and I don't really believe that anything is truly independent/neutral in it's presentation to the reader/viewer.

true journalism, a variety of different interview partners and most important: time! his interviews at least are 90mins, he has a dicussion panel wher his guests talk sometimes for more than 3 hours about a subject.

This sounds good - and I think you highlighting the fact of TIME is an important one. Sadly everything now is reduced to soundbites, the lowest common denominator and entrenched positions. Not a healthy situation.

[Whirlwind]

1.yes, but to develop a BS-detector you need to get more background information.
the misinformation in the mainstream mostly happens by a lack of background while reporting.

2.  true journalism, ….most important: time! his interviews at least are 90mins, he has a discussion panel where his guests talk sometimes for more than 3 hours about a subject.

.

1. A good bullsh!t detector does not require a vast array of backround information. The very idea of a good bullsh!t detector is that one can instantly spot the bullshit.

Sure, your example of groups secretly funded by terrorists is sound. But that really is minutiae. Does the average guy sitting in a bar really know -- or need to know -- the intricate ins and outs of a Syrian civil war? Yes, if you are a journalist or a student or a very involved activist one should know the intricate details of a Syrian civil war; but for the average person a good bullshit detector is enough to cut through the crap that involves their world and their politics.

2. Excellent point. The key to true journalism is time. Man, if you lived here and watched FOX News you'd go crazy. Deathly serious global issues must be settled in five minute segments. And then after the commercial break, they are back to discuss the next deathly serious world issue in a five minute segment. I swear it is hilarious at times to watch. They've turned news into a competitive sporting event -- basketball, where you get just 24 seconds to shoot the ball and score your points. TV news is like that. Each participant gets about two and a half minutes to settle climate change. Good God.


By the way, cthulu, just last week our New York Times unleashed their year and a half journalistic investigation into Trump's tax shenanigans regarding his business. The piece went back to the 1950s to dissect Trump's father's criminal business practices and then moved into Donald's. You speak of time as being the most important element to true journalism. Well that piece was nearly two years in the making and actually ran an astounding ten pages long in the newspaper. You know what Trump and his people said about it? He called it "boring." Yup, if it is longer than a one sentence sound bite, it is labelled boring. Our news has become fast food. Solid investigative journalism is now "boring."

[Ghosttrain]

I totally agree on the time issue,i had an early Hospital appointment the other day,so i put TV on to watch News......tuned in to Good Morning Britain Piers Morgan and a load of other non entities,it was the first time i had watched it i lasted about 5 minutes.......what a load of mindless drivel everything delivered at 100 mph.I imagine this is very much like Fox as Whirlwind described it,it seemed very American to me aimed at people with a very short attention span ? I switched over to BBC News much better.On the evening i always watch Channel 4 News still only an hour long,but very informative. On the other hand as regards to Politics i think we are very lucky with programs like Newsnight,Andrew Marr,Sunday Politics and Robert Peston.I find you get very good in depth reporting with these programs.

[ldopas]

what do you have in britain for alternative media, which you trust to really inform you?

No one ever, never, ever should completely trust any news source to really inform you.......EVER!

Alternative just means someone puts their political, economic and emotional biases on it.

People "trust" a source because it conforms to their particular slice of worldview. Hence one event can have so many angles to it.

Me, I try (time permitting) to read left right and centre views and construct a picture from all of it. But like everyone else I use my political, emotional and economic biases to construct that view as we all do.

That's my two-penneth! 

[ldopas]

You simply need a good "bullsh!t detector."

I can read/watch anything (from left-leaning MSNBC to Nazi-right Fox News) and I instinctively know where they are lying and where lies the truth.

Other suggestion: read it all. I have three newspapers delivered on a daily basis (four on Sundays) and they range from right-wing NY Post to left leaning NY Newsday. I get all perspectives and from that you get to figure out exactly what the center really is.

Interesting description, and not being rude, but makes my point about how we colour our views.

Fox news is not really "nazi", it is very very conservative, but you put that because you clearly do not vote to the right.

Why did you not put "commie MSNBC" instead of "left leaning MSNBC"?

Therein is our political view colouring our outlooks. 

[ldopas]

Holy moly, jesus flying fuckballs what the hell is happening    Just the other day ldopas and I agreed

Hey that is enough of that thank you!

And I've copyrighted Jesus Flying Fuckballs, what a great band name. 

[ldopas]

yes, but to develop a BS-detector you need to get more background information.
the misinformation in the mainstream mostly happens by a lack of background while reporting.

for example:
the "white helmets" are often quoted or reports are being taken by them, rescuing children with many cruel pictures in syria, to blame the violence on assads troops. but this group is group is funded by terrorist organisations and some members are identified as terrorist-combatans.

https://kenfm.de/die-weisshelm-terroristen/
https://www.globalresearch.ca/syrias-white-helmets-fiction-and-reality/5550964

Absolutely 10000% agree with that!

That is our problem though, who has the time to dig into the metadata and machinations of who is behind what many layers down? We don't!

But you are right.

[ldopas]

1.yes, but to develop a BS-detector you need to get more background information.
the misinformation in the mainstream mostly happens by a lack of background while reporting.

2.  true journalism, ….most important: time! his interviews at least are 90mins, he has a discussion panel where his guests talk sometimes for more than 3 hours about a subject.

.

1. A good bullsh!t detector does not require a vast array of backround information. The very idea of a good bullsh!t detector is that one can instantly spot the bullshit.

Sure, your example of groups secretly funded by terrorists is sound. But that really is minutiae. Does the average guy sitting in a bar really know -- or need to know -- the intricate ins and outs of a Syrian civil war? Yes, if you are a journalist or a student or a very involved activist one should know the intricate details of a Syrian civil war; but for the average person a good bullshit detector is enough to cut through the crap that involves their world and their politics.

2. Excellent point. The key to true journalism is time. Man, if you lived here and watched FOX News you'd go crazy. Deathly serious global issues must be settled in five minute segments. And then after the commercial break, they are back to discuss the next deathly serious world issue in a five minute segment. I swear it is hilarious at times to watch. They've turned news into a competitive sporting event -- basketball, where you get just 24 seconds to shoot the ball and score your points. TV news is like that. Each participant gets about two and a half minutes to settle climate change. Good God.


By the way, cthulu, just last week our New York Times unleashed their year and a half journalistic investigation into Trump's tax shenanigans regarding his business. The piece went back to the 1950s to dissect Trump's father's criminal business practices and then moved into Donald's. You speak of time as being the most important element to true journalism. Well that piece was nearly two years in the making and actually ran an astounding ten pages long in the newspaper. You know what Trump and his people said about it? He called it "boring." Yup, if it is longer than a one sentence sound bite, it is labelled boring. Our news has become fast food. Solid investigative journalism is now "boring."

And that is all good. But buried away in a news (Newsnight) programme this week near midnight where hardly anyone is watching was a documentary on the wall that Obama built....yes, Obama on the Mexican border in Texas.

Look up The Secure Fence Act of 2006, voted FOR by Saint Obama AND Hilary Clinton.

Now compare most of the media, especially online, and the furore about Trumps silly "wall". It never ends.

Bias right there.

ps I'm not for Trump by the way. I just know that Obama built a wall, oh and deported over 3 million people, yet he is fawned over by the media. Funny that.

[Pol]

Everyone is biased , it's impossible not to be. The left will say there right wing n the right will say the opposite. For newspapers I only read the local rag , I sometimes use the tabloids but mainly for sports news . Mainstream I occasionally watch sky news ( ok fox , Murdoch etc ) but only because it's easy to access as I only stream tv . Sometimes watch the odd thing on YouTube tho it seems to have been overtaken the right  ( rebel media etc ) .
Make your own mind up , take in what n want.
Isn't a major issue the European parliament have decided to block sharing links including media links, I wonder what they don't want you to know. 

[Whirlwind]

I just know that Obama built a wall, oh and deported over 3 million people, yet he is fawned over by the media. Funny that.

Ooooh, you just gave a great example of head-in-the-sand bias. Yes, Obama was fawned over by the left-leaning media outlets even with those things on his record. But why didn't you add that Obama was despised by right-leaning outlets even with those on his record?

Both sides put their head in the sand when it comes to many things their guy does or doesn't do.

[Whirlwind]

Interesting description, and not being rude, but makes my point about how we colour our views.

Fox news is not really "nazi", it is very very conservative, but you put that because you clearly do not vote to the right.

Why did you not put "commie MSNBC" instead of "left leaning MSNBC"?

Therein is our political view colouring our outlooks. 

.

I didn't write "commie MSNBC" because MSNBC is far from a communist entity. Uhh, you do know that the 'MS' in MSNBC stands for Microsoft, no? You really think one of the biggest corporations on planet Earth -- a company that earns over 20 BILLION dollars a year! -- is a communist organization? It's the grandest example of capitalism the world has ever seen! That's why I didn't write "commie MSNBC."

As for why I wrote "Nazi-right Fox," well, it does lean right and they have commentators on the air delivering words that are straight out the Nazi playbook. Blonde-haired blue-eyed host Laura Ingraham just recently said that, due to immigrants (Hitler used Jews) "America that we know and love doesn't exist anymore." A viewer of her show, KKK leader David Duke, loved her speech and called it "one of the most important and truthful monologues in the history of" mainstream media.

Oh, and by the way, another blonde haired blue eyed Eva Braun on Nazi-Fox actually told her viewers, "Of course we all know Santa Claus is white." True story.

Seriously, try watching Fox. I have no time machine but I don't need one to know what news outlets were like in Nazi Germany. All I have to do is turn on channel 26 -- Fox News.

[cthulhu]

With McMedia in the headline of the thread i wanted to express the fast food character our news media has become. I think that something like the american Fox News is an extreme example of pure informations running without background or depth and that after watching it you're more less informed than before, but that thing is also happeneing everywhere, also in german media.

I didn't mean to say that you should only read alternative media, of course everybody should read anything he wants, but also have a different source to it than the mainstream. you cannot complain about the time shortened newsfeeds when you're not ready to invest some time of your own to get informed, if you wish to.

if someone has experience with a good source of information, post a link.