Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors

[Guillaume]

maybe you have some more information about The Keep. Is there a longer version or more of a director's cut available?

There is no "Director's Cut." Mann himself doesn't seem interested in reworking the film with any scenes or shots to incorporate. He said there might be some material on the film in his archives, but he's not sure. You can find a longer ending on YouTube than the one you saw on the Blu-ray:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMpDerTdnNY

I read that Michael Mann is not satisfied with the version due to financial shortcuts and his vision was a much longer version of the film and that much material he shot has not made it to the final cut/theatrical version.

Visual effects specialist Wally Veevers died during post-production, after filming had wrapped on THE KEEP, so apparently some shots/scenes had to be abandoned or left incomplete, and other scenes/shots had to be reshot after Veevers' death. Mann said that the special effects work begun by Wally Veevers was never completed and that the film also suffered from script problems (according to Mann, his screenplay wasn't fully finished before filming). He said he needed more shooting time before the film's theatrical release, but the major company Paramount refused to give Mann more money after Wally Veevers' death to complete his work.

Filmed in Wales and at Shepperton Studios during the autumn of 1982, The Keep suffered numerous post-production problems, mainly the death of special effects supervisor Wally Veevers before he completed his work on the film. The film was also subject to significant editing troubles, as Mann's original director's cut was 210 minutes long, which its distributor, Paramount Pictures, required be cut to 120 minutes. After test screenings of the 120-minute version received unfavorable audience responses, the film was truncated to its final 96-minute cut, which was released theatrically in December 1983.

Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Keep_(film)

[Guillaume]

Thanks for the welcome Guillaume and also to Master Ray for his efforts to keep this forum going. I don't want to get sentimental here, but this place and especially this section with mostly you and MR was always a great inspiration for me, we share a very similar taste and fascination of the art of filmmaking.

Thanks for you kind words! 

What can you say more about Dark Glasses

I also recently updated my Argento collection and bought Phenomena.

At the time, it was my favorite Argento film, and I still have a soft spot for PHENOMENA! I love its visuals, its magical, poetic, macabre, and unsettling atmosphere, and Jennifer's innocent character.

 DARK GLASSES/OCCHALI NERI is somewhat reminiscent of the sweet tone, and fairy tale atmosphere of PHENOMENA. I won't reveal too much to Master Ray and you about DARK GLASSES, but I recommend it because it's an entertaining  fast-paced thriller, and also, at its heart/core, the touching tale/story of two endearing outsiders. I had the enormous pleasure of seeing this lovely Argento film in theaters, a great memory for me as a lover of his cinema!The excellent soundtrack of DARK GLASSES/OCCHIALI NERI has been written and performed by our french electro artist Arnaud Rebotini:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YADJXv1azGo&list=RDYADJXv1azGo&start_radio=1

[cthulhu]

Thx for that great summary of information. 210min for The Keep..i cannot imagine where this would have gone but it sounds really like a total different movie. Very sad that it also had to be cut from 120min to the 95min because of a test screening, stupid audience it must have been;-)

Ok then, i will give Dark Glasses a chance, had just a short listening in the soundtrack from your link, sounds promising, but i also don't want to spoil the first impression going along with the movie for me.

[Guillaume]

I kind of feel, but i have to check that, that the newer Argento movies are different from his early ones regarding the use of light and scenery.

Re-reading the thread, it seems you stopped watching Argento films after TRAUMA/THE STENDHAL SYNDROME?
Argento's films from the 70s and 80s are the most visually impressive because he had big budgets and a generous/large shooting schedule.
From the 90s onward, he had more modest/small budgets and tighter shooting schedules, which partly explains why his films from then on are less flamboyant in style. That doesn't stop me from liking the films he's made over the last 25/30 years for various reasons, or at least appreciating certain aspects/sides of some of his films, even if they're visually less astonishing than what he did in the first part of his career.

If you haven't seen anything by Argento since THE STENDHAL SYNDROME in 1996, I advise you to watch DARK GLASSES (2021) first and then THE CARD PLAYER (2004), which are both  in my opinion solid thrillers and films. There are quite a few Argento fans who also like SLEEPLESS/NON HO SONNO (2001), but I remain quite mixed about this thriller.

Ok then, i will give Dark Glasses a chance

It's available on streaming but also Blu Ray,  you can easily find it in its original Italian language, with subtitles.

Thx for that great summary of information. 210min for The Keep..i cannot imagine where this would have gone but it sounds really like a total different movie. Very sad that it also had to be cut from 120min to the 95min because of a test screening, stupid audience it must have been;-)

The 210-minute cut might just be a rumor; Mann never confirmed that his film was originally 210 minutes long. It's likely that the 210 minutes was the first cut/work copy of his film. Many films are initially very long but have to be cut before theatrical release. I just remember a French interview with Mann after the release of HEAT in 1996 where he said that THE KEEP had been "butchered in the editing room" and its "original intent largely distorted." Otherwise, indeed, quite a few films suffer from test screenings... it's possible that the film was at least 2 hours long but that 20 minutes were cut/re-edited following audience feedback at test screenings, as Wikipedia states. I have fond memories of THE KEEP, the book by F. Paul Wilson, which is a nice gothic vampire story, but honestly, Mann's film is better and more ambitious in its approach.

[cthulhu]

That's right, i just watched Stendhal Syndrome then and i kind of remember that it used digital effects and that kind of threw me off. Now i think that the german actor Faßbender was in it? I have vague memories of that movie but i cannot judge it in memory, maybe i should also give that one another go.

I love to rediscover old movies i know somehow on blu ray, giving it restoration and a decent or good sound and mostly it's like seeing it for the first time. I had a blast with Phenomena and also Tenebrae which i saw this year for the first time on blu after having seen it only on VHS or maybe DVD.

I want to recommend, maybe you have already mentioned it here in this thread somewhere:

"Un Tranquillo Posto Di Campagna", i don't know the english title in german it's called "Das Verfluchte Haus" by Elio Petri.

It's from 1968 with Franco Nero and Vanessa Redgrave with music by Ennio Morricone and it's a unique, bizarre, great movie. I wouldn't see it as a giallo more of an artistic thriller.

[Guillaume]

I know the title of the Petri film you're talking about, but I've never seen it.

That's right, i just watched Stendhal Syndrome then and i kind of remember that it used digital effects and that kind of threw me off. Now i think that the german actor Faßbender was in it? I have vague memories of that movie but i cannot judge it in memory, maybe i should also give that one another go.

Yes, the CGI/digital effects in THE STENDHAL SYNDROME aren't very good, but fortunately there aren't many. In general, the CGI effects in Argento's films aren't very good (in STENDHAL as in DRACULA and THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA), probably because his budgets are small; he gets better results with practical, gory effects. THE STENDHAL SYNDROME remains, for me, one of Argento's most interesting films; it's one of his most intimate a character study and a beautiful love letter to his passion for painting. Asia Argento and Ennio Morricone's music are excellent. The german actor in THE STENDHAL SYNDROME isn't Michael Fassbender but Thomas Kretschmann, who would go on to play Count Dracula for Argento 15 years after STENDHAL.

[cthulhu]

I know the title of the Petri film you're talking about, but I've never seen it.

I think you should put some effort then to get a copy of this one. I have the feeling that you will totally enjoy it on many levels...

I just ordered Dark Glasses...though i won't have much time this year to watch it 'cause of my new job, having to get up before 4.30 in the morning and doing overhours and i have some other movies still to watch and noticed, that i don't find the time to watch movies, which sucks;-) But maybe i'll get a day off and i'm really now looking forward to it.

The early times of cgi often felt like directors wanted to include it in their movies and maybe were promised good and cheaper results, cheaper because of the pre-setting and directing a whole crew around a practical effect, even having many people simultaneously working on one effect which lasts maybe 5sec and the new cgi-nerd said: "well, just film something and we put all the glory in later."
But the reason why this, as i remember, threw me off was a different one and i have grown out of it. I think i will also rediscover this one and focus on the meaning and art behind that.