Author Topic: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors  (Read 95199 times)

Guillaume

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Re: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors
« Reply #375 on: December 04, 2025, 09:37:32 AM »
maybe you have some more information about The Keep. Is there a longer version or more of a director's cut available?

There is no "Director's Cut." Mann himself doesn't seem interested in reworking the film with any scenes or shots to incorporate. He said there might be some material on the film in his archives, but he's not sure. You can find a longer ending on YouTube than the one you saw on the Blu-ray:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMpDerTdnNY

I read that Michael Mann is not satisfied with the version due to financial shortcuts and his vision was a much longer version of the film and that much material he shot has not made it to the final cut/theatrical version.

Visual effects specialist Wally Veevers died during post-production, after filming had wrapped on THE KEEP, so apparently some shots/scenes had to be abandoned or left incomplete, and other scenes/shots had to be reshot after Veevers' death. Mann said that the special effects work begun by Wally Veevers was never completed and that the film also suffered from script problems (according to Mann, his screenplay wasn't fully finished before filming). He said he needed more shooting time before the film's theatrical release, but the major company Paramount refused to give Mann more money after Wally Veevers' death to complete his work.

Filmed in Wales and at Shepperton Studios during the autumn of 1982, The Keep suffered numerous post-production problems, mainly the death of special effects supervisor Wally Veevers before he completed his work on the film. The film was also subject to significant editing troubles, as Mann's original director's cut was 210 minutes long, which its distributor, Paramount Pictures, required be cut to 120 minutes. After test screenings of the 120-minute version received unfavorable audience responses, the film was truncated to its final 96-minute cut, which was released theatrically in December 1983.

Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Keep_(film)


Guillaume

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Re: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors
« Reply #376 on: December 04, 2025, 10:34:42 AM »
Thanks for the welcome Guillaume and also to Master Ray for his efforts to keep this forum going. I don't want to get sentimental here, but this place and especially this section with mostly you and MR was always a great inspiration for me, we share a very similar taste and fascination of the art of filmmaking.

Thanks for you kind words!  8)

What can you say more about Dark Glasses

I also recently updated my Argento collection and bought Phenomena.

At the time, it was my favorite Argento film, and I still have a soft spot for PHENOMENA! I love its visuals, its magical, poetic, macabre, and unsettling atmosphere, and Jennifer's innocent character.

 DARK GLASSES/OCCHALI NERI is somewhat reminiscent of the sweet tone, and fairy tale atmosphere of PHENOMENA. I won't reveal too much to Master Ray and you about DARK GLASSES, but I recommend it because it's an entertaining  fast-paced thriller, and also, at its heart/core, the touching tale/story of two endearing outsiders. I had the enormous pleasure of seeing this lovely Argento film in theaters, a great memory for me as a lover of his cinema!The excellent soundtrack of DARK GLASSES/OCCHIALI NERI has been written and performed by our french electro artist Arnaud Rebotini:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YADJXv1azGo&list=RDYADJXv1azGo&start_radio=1


« Last Edit: December 04, 2025, 10:54:44 AM by Guillaume »

cthulhu

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Re: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors
« Reply #377 on: December 04, 2025, 01:00:16 PM »
Thx for that great summary of information. 210min for The Keep..i cannot imagine where this would have gone but it sounds really like a total different movie. Very sad that it also had to be cut from 120min to the 95min because of a test screening, stupid audience it must have been;-)

Ok then, i will give Dark Glasses a chance, had just a short listening in the soundtrack from your link, sounds promising, but i also don't want to spoil the first impression going along with the movie for me.
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Guillaume

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Re: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors
« Reply #378 on: December 04, 2025, 01:21:17 PM »
I kind of feel, but i have to check that, that the newer Argento movies are different from his early ones regarding the use of light and scenery.

Re-reading the thread, it seems you stopped watching Argento films after TRAUMA/THE STENDHAL SYNDROME?
Argento's films from the 70s and 80s are the most visually impressive because he had big budgets and a generous/large shooting schedule.
From the 90s onward, he had more modest/small budgets and tighter shooting schedules, which partly explains why his films from then on are less flamboyant in style. That doesn't stop me from liking the films he's made over the last 25/30 years for various reasons, or at least appreciating certain aspects/sides of some of his films, even if they're visually less astonishing than what he did in the first part of his career.

If you haven't seen anything by Argento since THE STENDHAL SYNDROME in 1996, I advise you to watch DARK GLASSES (2021) first and then THE CARD PLAYER (2004), which are both  in my opinion solid thrillers and films. There are quite a few Argento fans who also like SLEEPLESS/NON HO SONNO (2001), but I remain quite mixed about this thriller.

Ok then, i will give Dark Glasses a chance

It's available on streaming but also Blu Ray,  you can easily find it in its original Italian language, with subtitles.


Thx for that great summary of information. 210min for The Keep..i cannot imagine where this would have gone but it sounds really like a total different movie. Very sad that it also had to be cut from 120min to the 95min because of a test screening, stupid audience it must have been;-)

The 210-minute cut might just be a rumor; Mann never confirmed that his film was originally 210 minutes long. It's likely that the 210 minutes was the first cut/work copy of his film. Many films are initially very long but have to be cut before theatrical release. I just remember a French interview with Mann after the release of HEAT in 1996 where he said that THE KEEP had been "butchered in the editing room" and its "original intent largely distorted." Otherwise, indeed, quite a few films suffer from test screenings... it's possible that the film was at least 2 hours long but that 20 minutes were cut/re-edited following audience feedback at test screenings, as Wikipedia states. I have fond memories of THE KEEP, the book by F. Paul Wilson, which is a nice gothic vampire story, but honestly, Mann's film is better and more ambitious in its approach.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2025, 01:31:12 PM by Guillaume »

cthulhu

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Re: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors
« Reply #379 on: December 04, 2025, 01:41:40 PM »
That's right, i just watched Stendhal Syndrome then and i kind of remember that it used digital effects and that kind of threw me off. Now i think that the german actor Faßbender was in it? I have vague memories of that movie but i cannot judge it in memory, maybe i should also give that one another go.

I love to rediscover old movies i know somehow on blu ray, giving it restoration and a decent or good sound and mostly it's like seeing it for the first time. I had a blast with Phenomena and also Tenebrae which i saw this year for the first time on blu after having seen it only on VHS or maybe DVD.

I want to recommend, maybe you have already mentioned it here in this thread somewhere:

"Un Tranquillo Posto Di Campagna", i don't know the english title in german it's called "Das Verfluchte Haus" by Elio Petri.

It's from 1968 with Franco Nero and Vanessa Redgrave with music by Ennio Morricone and it's a unique, bizarre, great movie. I wouldn't see it as a giallo more of an artistic thriller.
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Guillaume

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Re: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors
« Reply #380 on: December 04, 2025, 02:02:04 PM »
I know the title of the Petri film you're talking about, but I've never seen it.


That's right, i just watched Stendhal Syndrome then and i kind of remember that it used digital effects and that kind of threw me off. Now i think that the german actor Faßbender was in it? I have vague memories of that movie but i cannot judge it in memory, maybe i should also give that one another go.

Yes, the CGI/digital effects in THE STENDHAL SYNDROME aren't very good, but fortunately there aren't many. In general, the CGI effects in Argento's films aren't very good (in STENDHAL as in DRACULA and THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA), probably because his budgets are small; he gets better results with practical, gory effects. THE STENDHAL SYNDROME remains, for me, one of Argento's most interesting films; it's one of his most intimate a character study and a beautiful love letter to his passion for painting. Asia Argento and Ennio Morricone's music are excellent. The german actor in THE STENDHAL SYNDROME isn't Michael Fassbender but Thomas Kretschmann, who would go on to play Count Dracula for Argento 15 years after STENDHAL.

cthulhu

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Re: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors
« Reply #381 on: December 05, 2025, 02:44:11 PM »
I know the title of the Petri film you're talking about, but I've never seen it.

I think you should put some effort then to get a copy of this one. I have the feeling that you will totally enjoy it on many levels...

I just ordered Dark Glasses...though i won't have much time this year to watch it 'cause of my new job, having to get up before 4.30 in the morning and doing overhours and i have some other movies still to watch and noticed, that i don't find the time to watch movies, which sucks;-) But maybe i'll get a day off and i'm really now looking forward to it.

The early times of cgi often felt like directors wanted to include it in their movies and maybe were promised good and cheaper results, cheaper because of the pre-setting and directing a whole crew around a practical effect, even having many people simultaneously working on one effect which lasts maybe 5sec and the new cgi-nerd said: "well, just film something and we put all the glory in later."
But the reason why this, as i remember, threw me off was a different one and i have grown out of it. I think i will also rediscover this one and focus on the meaning and art behind that.


« Last Edit: December 05, 2025, 02:51:50 PM by cthulhu »
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cthulhu

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Re: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors
« Reply #382 on: December 11, 2025, 02:04:47 PM »
Yesterday i watched Dark Glasses  8)

It was a good movie, but it felt like Dario Argento wanted to make another Dario Argento movie, little bit more modern, instead of just being him and making a movie, which would be a Dario Argento movie.
The begining was very nice, when i read in the credits that Stivaletti is onboard i had to smile and the first 20min arey very cool. Maybe some spoilers ahead!!...

The cinematography was fine but it was different, of course. Nothing to complain about but i noticed that they used lenses which almost in every shot made the focus unsharp in the corners and i think this was intentionally due to the equipment they used. Nowadays you get very nice looking results when using semi-pro digital equipment which good lenses, but it just lacks a bit of depht. No complaints just noticing..
The movie didn't manage to get me involved so much, it had this feeling of a midnight thriller movie, where everything is fine to please the audience, what they expect, but the overall story didn't get me very tense on my seat or involved in the characters. Also some b-movie like scenes to explain the story somehow, not very logical.

But i really enjoyed watching it and would also recommend this one to anybody who likes Dario Argento.

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Guillaume

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Re: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors
« Reply #383 on: December 12, 2025, 10:17:42 AM »
It was a good movie, but it felt like Dario Argento wanted to make another Dario Argento movie, little bit more modern, instead of just being him and making a movie, which would be a Dario Argento movie.

I see what you mean, but I appreciated the "modern" Dario Argento feel, especially the brisk pace/editing (unlike most of Argento's films are which are generally quite slow moving) and the more stripped-down story (little to no police investigation this time, we know the killer's face before the end, no plot twists). The more modern approach is perhaps also noticeable in that this time Argento is much more interested in the life of the main character (and the kid) than in the killer's point of view and his murders; the point of view is actually that of the victims. It's worth noting that the screenplay for DARK GLASSES was written in 2001/2002, Argento was supposed to direct it right after SLEEPL.ESS, but his producer at the time ran into legal problems, so the film couldn't be made in the early 2000s, and Argento then went on to direct another stripped down, low budget thriller, THE CARD PLAYER. I suppose Argento rewrote parts of the script for DARK GLASSES, updating it before directing it in 2021. I read, for example, that the killer's motive and weapon during the murders in the 2001/2002 script were different.



For the 2021 film, SPOILER ALERT!!!

Argento was inspired by a a prostitue killer from Brescia area who was a cocaine user and had been rejected by a prostitute. I also thought a bit about Asia Argento's story of being abused by Harvey Weinstein, with that sad scene near the beginning of the film where Diana/Illenia Pastorelli is assaulted by one of her clients.

The begining was very nice, when i read in the credits that Stivaletti is onboard i had to smile and the first 20min arey very cool.

The first 20 minutes (up to the car crash scene) are the most classically "giallo" part

 SPOILERS

the nasty first murder with the victim dying in agony, bleeding out in front of a few witnesses, impressed me on the big screen, the eclipse scene is also very beautiful with the image splitting in two at one point when Diana is driving in Rome, and the amazing way Argento films the trees, the sky... the car chase scene and the car crash were also gripping on the big screen. Speaking of Stivaletti, the killer's death is also very graphic at the end! When he gets eaten by the dog, I was relieved and happy for Diana and Chin, haha! Rebotini's music is very good during this scene, as in the rest of the film.


The cinematography was fine but it was different, of course. Nothing to complain about but i noticed that they used lenses which almost in every shot made the focus unsharp in the corners and i think this was intentionally due to the equipment they used. Nowadays you get very nice looking results when using semi-pro digital equipment which good lenses, but it just lacks a bit of depht. No complaints just noticing.

I confess that when I saw the film in theaters I didn't pay much attention to that; in fact, I found the film visually beautiful and the framing/blocking elegant. Regarding the lenses, Argento and his cinematographer Matteo Cocco used anamorphic lenses; this is Argento's first film shot in anamorphic Cinemascope since TRAUMA in 1992.

Some of my favorite scenes/shots:

-the eclipse scene

-Diana unconscious and injured in her wrecked car, the smoke filling the frame

-Diana and Chin fleeing the apartment with police lights illuminating them and the corridors becoming increasingly narrow as they escape

-Diana walking alone in the countryside under the starry sky (probably an homage to "The Night of the Hunter")

-the illuminated sign in the countryside at night

-the ending: the overhead shot of Diana and her dog at the airport.

Also some b-movie like scenes to explain the story somehow, not very logical.

The use of short flashbacks towards the end was a bit odd, although I quite like the idea (illogical, therefore very Argento!) of the killer remembering spotting Asia in the restaurant when he sees her on the road.

There's also an aspect of DARK GLASSES that I appreciate: it has both the urban feel of Argento's giallo films (the first 45 minutes) and then it shifts to a rural, fairytale-like setting, the "PHENOMENA" feel, with the countryside at night, the smelly ogre/big bad wolf and his house, the hunters, the snakes, the moon... but I've read some viewers who preferred the first urban half of the film to its rural second half.







« Last Edit: December 12, 2025, 07:01:49 PM by Guillaume »

Guillaume

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Re: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors
« Reply #384 on: December 12, 2025, 11:00:09 AM »
The movie didn't manage to get me involved so much, it had this feeling of a midnight thriller movie, where everything is fine to please the audience, what they expect, but the overall story didn't get me very tense on my seat or involved in the characters.

My reaction was different:

I really liked the main character and so I became invested in her unlucky experiences. There were even scenes that touched/moved me, which doesn't always happen when I watch an Argento film:

waking up in the hospital and discovering she's permanently blind, her sweet/tender relationship with the kid and one of her clients (who sees himself as a "monster"), when she says, "God doesn't have time for someone like me" (when her religious cleaning lady makes her feel guilty after the accident), and the bitter final scene when she finds herself isolated at the airport, once again alone with her dog, facing an indifferent crowd.
As is often the case in Argento's films, the main character is an outsider (marginalized here by her profession/work and then by her disability) a lonely marginal figure trying to survive in a cold and indifferent society...she is "swimming out alone against this tide"!


Guillaume, you asked about ranking Mr Argento's films, so let's see what you make if this little lot... I'm sure I've missed something out here...  :)

Must watch...
Suspiria
Inferno
Phenomena
Opera
Deep Red
 Tenebrae

Certainly worth a look...
Sleepless
The Stendhal Syndrome
Four Flies on Grey Velvet
The Card Player
 The Bird with the Crystal Plumage
The Cat o' Nine Tails

Proceed with caution, but you might like it better than I did...

Trauma
Mother of Tears
The Phantom Of The Opera

Never seen...

Giallo (I did have it lined up on Netflix, but they deleted it before I got around to watching it...)
Masters of Horror (TV Series) (2 episodes)
Do You Like Hitchcock? (TV Movie)

Maybe it's time to make your Argento ranking, cthulhu !  ;) 8)




« Last Edit: December 12, 2025, 07:08:21 PM by Guillaume »

cthulhu

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Re: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors
« Reply #385 on: December 14, 2025, 02:36:10 PM »
Great post again Guillaume, thank you for your insights and i can totally relate to it. I think if i had seen Dark Glasses on the big screen it would have been another experience, so i feel very close to your impressions.

Two more movies i would love to hear your ( i mean anybody who has some ) opinions about:

The first one is Monkey Man from 2024.
My son told me "there is a film like John Wick and i want to see it."
So i got a copy and we watched it together and it just blew me away. I wasn't prepared for that. It's fantatsic in my opinion but i'm curious first what others think of it before i post some more thoughts about it.

The second one is "Under the Silver Lake" from 2018.
This one i want to describe is for those who like the style of David Lynch, kind of... Also a very impacting wonderful strange one.

Any opinions?
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Guillaume

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Re: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors
« Reply #386 on: December 14, 2025, 04:33:18 PM »
I know these two films by title but I haven't seen them, "Under the silver lake" is directed by David Robert Mitchell who had previously directed "It follows", a film which had a "buzz" at festivals but which personally disappointed me quite a bit at the time.

Master Ray

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Re: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors
« Reply #387 on: December 14, 2025, 07:40:19 PM »

Monkey Man is, indeed, a great film, bonkers as heck!

Under The Silver Lake is one I haven't seen, I'll get onto that when I can.  Sounds like my cup of cinema.
... but at what point does it stop being CPR and start being like trying to reanimate a corpse?

cthulhu

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Re: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors
« Reply #388 on: December 15, 2025, 01:28:58 PM »
I saw Under the Silver Lake because of yt-clip, which was a almost 3min scene and also a big spoiler, included in a commentary about different themes, but i found the clip so good that i went for the movie witghout any further information about it, just the title. And the funny thing is, a friend of mine whom i consider to have a good taste in movies recommendet It Follows to me and also praised it and when i saw it, it just left me cold. I can't even remember it. So not knowing that it was by the same director was a good thing for me.

Monkey Man was just way bigger and better than "kind of a John Wick" movie, as my son told me.

It is the first movie of Dev Patel and he also wrote (co-wrote) and produced (co-produced) and is starring in it. The making of was great, this is the product and a journey and a work of passion by him that you can feel throughout the movie. The story is nothing very new, but it's very cleverly told, it's a spiritual journey and also a commentary about religion in a kind of revenge movie genre.

There was one scene, one explanation and resolution which hit me so hard that i just had to cry, facing the unbelievable story and journey the protagonist had to live through. I often get very emotional watching storys that touch me, ihave no problem with that, but this moment i was crying because it was such a hard and cruel experience you have to witness, i couldn't believe it. Not a pleasent movie, but a beautiful one.

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Master Ray

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Re: Dario Argento and others thrillers/horror movies directors
« Reply #389 on: December 15, 2025, 10:41:54 PM »

I have to say that 2025 has been a pretty good year for horror movies... Sinners, Weapons, Companion, Final Destination - Bloodlines (not a huge fan of that franchise but this newie was a belter!) Guillermo Del Toro's version of Frankenstein, 28 Years Later, Bring Her Back, The Monkey,... all fine watches that I'd recommend!
... but at what point does it stop being CPR and start being like trying to reanimate a corpse?