So... an NMA track you REALLY don't like..?

[Willard]

I'm a big fan of States Radio, except for the numbers of the radio stations.  I think, here in the USA anyway, that all FM radio stations end in an odd number. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FM_radio_stations_in_the_United_States_by_call_sign_%28initial_letters_WG%E2%80%93WJ%29

I've always been a bit bothered that some in that song end in even numbers. 

[Anna Woman von NRW]

Awesome Willard   

[Willard]

Make it ok, make it ok, God please make it ok!

Pressed uniforms and body bags

Love it

[Space]

Why not look at the positive side of this thread.

I am number one here in listing the highest number of NMA songs that I dislike, and, yet, that number is only 20. Think about that. Thirty plus years of making music -- a whole lot of albums, singles, B-sides, extra tracks, discarded tracks -- and only 20 bad tunes.

[Master Ray]

Why not look at the positive side of this thread.

I am number one here in listing the highest number of NMA songs that I dislike, and, yet, that number is only 20. Think about that. Thirty plus years of making music -- a whole lot of albums, singles, B-sides, extra tracks, discarded tracks -- and only 20 bad tunes.

But they're not bad tunes... they are tunes that you regard as 'bad'.

Big difference, fella...

[Space]

But they're not bad tunes... they are tunes that you regard as 'bad'.

No, no, no. That is the old 'art is subjective' debate you are bringing up. "That is not a bad song, it is just your opinion that it is bad."

No, my friend, there are songs, movies, paintings, plays, books that are just flat out bad. Subjectivity has nothing to do with it. Jon Bon Jovi's song "Bad Medicine" is bad. In so many ways -- musically cliched, hackneyed production, infantile lyrics -- it is bad.

You are suggesting a song is bad only to those who think it is bad. So in your view, every single song ever recorded is good! You might want to check on that theory of yours. I've heard some bad songs in my life, and, I'm sure, so have you.

[Pol]

My mate loves bon jovi n since she is from the east end of Glasgow i wouldn't want to argue with her plus bon jovi have sold 10s of millions of albums they must have something personally i don't see it but hey I'm a weirdo nma fan. I think that there just a easy target for people. Plus there is lots of painting i hate but they sell for many millions so what do i know

[Master Ray]

Jeez, Space... if you can't figure out that art IS subjective then there is utterly no hope for you.  Seriously, you are far gone and out...

What anyone likes or loves, whether it be music, films, paintings, sculptures, food, places they have travelled to, people they have met, etc etc ******* etc... it's about the eye of the beholder and what strikes a chord in their heart.  Not one absolute opinion from someone so arrogant that they think that was they say 'goes'...

'every single song ever recorded is good'... YES, in someones eyes, whether it be One Direction, Cliff Richard, Celine Dion, pick your bad act of choice.  You're from the US, thought you lot believed in freedom of speech and, by definition, opinion?

I've tried to be nice to you, man, at a genuine risk of falling out with long-term friends from this forum who were far more offended by your bullshit than I was... your posts have now fallen into utter idiocy and I don't care what happens now.  All the best, pal.   

[Space]

Master Ray, there is good and there is bad. A piece of music can be good, it can bad. Opinions have zero to do with that. Extreme case: Play something completely out of key, out of time, out of tune, lyrics that are jibberish...that would be bad. The creator may think it is good, but he'd be wrong. It's bad. You can coddle them and build their self-esteem by telling them it is brilliant, but the truth is it is bad. Music, songs can be bad. If you don't believe that, then you are on an island alone.

Critics in the media do not voice their opinions when they review something -- they take a criteria and judge the work using that criteria. If a movie is completely out of focus, has nonsensical editing, plot holes that you can drive a truck through, acting that a sixth grader would laugh at, effects that are hilarious....it is a bad film! Go see PLAN NINE FROM OUTER SPACE. My God, it is bad! That's not an opinion, it is bad. Artistic creations can be bad. You honestly don't see that?

[szmurf]

you have now proven my point twice you doughnut!

MMMMMMM - Doughnuts ......

[szmurf]

Art IS objective.  I find a crucifix placed in a jar of urine a vile and pathetic load of crap; some people think it's worth spending their money on.
I bet you will find for every song in your list of 20 "bad" songs, at least one person on this board that likes it.  So, if you're saying it's bad, can you can scientifically prove that it's bad?  Does that make the person that likes it stupid?  I don't like calling people stupid, and I know that most people (yourself included) don't like being labeled it.

[Ava Enturin]

Yeah, me for one obsolutely loves Ballad, and I don´t feel stupid for it
There are so many levels of appreciation for a song, for instance lyrics, or the feeling that a song transpires.

And simple concepts like "true" and "false" don´t work anyway when human beings are in the mix, being the irrational entities we are.

Nobody is anybody others meter.

[Master Ray]

Master Ray, there is good and there is bad. A piece of music can be good, it can bad. Opinions have zero to do with that. Extreme case: Play something completely out of key, out of time, out of tune, lyrics that are jibberish...that would be bad. The creator may think it is good, but he'd be wrong. It's bad. You can coddle them and build their self-esteem by telling them it is brilliant, but the truth is it is bad. Music, songs can be bad. If you don't believe that, then you are on an island alone.

Critics in the media do not voice their opinions when they review something -- they take a criteria and judge the work using that criteria. If a movie is completely out of focus, has nonsensical editing, plot holes that you can drive a truck through, acting that a sixth grader would laugh at, effects that are hilarious....it is a bad film! Go see PLAN NINE FROM OUTER SPACE. My God, it is bad! That's not an opinion, it is bad. Artistic creations can be bad. You honestly don't see that?

OK, I'll bite...

PLAN 9 is a film that should have disappeared in the 50's, yet people still talk about it, Tim Burton did an excellent film about Ed Wood and I hear there's a remake about to happen... why?  Because people enjoy it for whatever qualities (or lack thereof) it has.  Personally, I got some laughs out of it... is a laugh not a valid reaction to whatever 'art' (and yes, even the worst film is a piece of art) is being presented to you?

Which brings us back to the point... any kind of art is completely, absolutely, 100% subjective.  Any other arguement is utterly invalid.  I mentioned a couple of acts that I utterly hate yet millions enjoy.  Are they all wrong because they disagree with me?  What kind of egomaniac would that make me?  Oh yeah... 

Your 'absolute' opinions on those NMA tunes are 'opinion', masquerading as 'fact' and are therefore just babblings of someone who has far too high an opinion of himself.  You are not the designator of what is good and bad in the world of NMA.  None of us are. 

Now, I've 'met' people like you on various Internet forums... you want attention.  Fine.  The NMA forum is a great place, but your stuff is upsetting some good folks (who've tried to reach out to you) and it's kicking up a stink that was amusing for a bit but is now offensive / boring / pathetic.  I don't say this anything with a high opinion of himself or who thinks he holds any great sway here... just trying to be a nice guy.  Your posts about those 20 NMA tracks were not nice.

Again, in bold type and underlined, just in case you're a bit slow on the uptake...

ART IS SUBJECTIVE!!!!

[Intothewind]

Right, so I think you can objectively critique a piece of Art using various formal methods. You can say that Bad Medicine by Bon Jovi is cliche, however I deeply love Bad Medicine for those reasons and also for no reason at all other than I really enjoy hearing it - it makes me happy.

I also feel like Music is in a different bracket to other forms of art. I have been in arts education for most of my adult life and there are huge areas of critical theory usually connected to the history of art and culture - a massive, highly complicated field of study that lets face it not everyone is going to undertake. I really like the fact that music is less reliant on this kind of objectivity and leans for closer to subjective reading.

I actually go further I thing that music criticism is a largely redundant form (for me anyway, he he) music critics are paid to listen to a vast quantity of music and find different/interesting things to write about each. This just isn't how most people (or just me again???) listen to music. So their apparently objective criticism of music masks all kinds of editorial biases and (god forbid!) personal taste.         

In the end you can be objective about a piece of music but that objectivity don't mean shit if you like it. I just don't feel that objectivity and subjectivity are not helpful determining factors when talking about music and that is one of musics eternal strengths: do I like it?   

[Bunny]

It would be nigh on impossible to like every song a band makes and Id hazard a guess that there are songs individual band members aren't keen on. However I think its suffice to say you dont like something without ripping it to shreds. Everyones tastes are different. Otherwise whats the point in styles and genres of music. As MR says its subjective.